Kodak - Slightly Off Topic...but Only Slightly.
Shawn Beckert
Guys,
This article is taken from USA Today. You might want to take a look: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-08-25-kodak-cuts_x.htm The freight car connection should be obvious. If things keep going the way they are, there might not *be* a Bob's Photo in a few years. Or John C. LaRue, or Jay Williams. etc. Not to be Chicken Little (hey, there's an idea for a movie), but it looks like we better start buying photographs like crazy or we find someone who still makes printing paper (and chemicals) and work out a deal. At some point we'll be forced to accept digitally printed photos. I already have some, and I'm just not impressed.Unless the quality of digital printing improves drastically (and who knows, maybe it will), I think we're in for a dry spell as far as this facet of our hobby goes. This is not meant to stir a debate (which will get Mike upset), but I think people here should be aware of what's coming. Not a pretty picture - no pun intended. Shawn Beckert
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Re: Kaslo double dutch drop
Paul Hillman
I can just imagine the stories from the steep-incline, multiple-
grade, multiple switch-back logging railroads, about these "Double- Dutch-Drops", IE); "Yeah, one day we tried a triple, double-Dutch-drop with a string of 10 fully-loaded log-cars and killed 20 men. Everything was OK until old "cross-eyed Bob" the switchman couldn't tell which way the train was goin' and switched her into the company mess-hall siding. Took us a week to find the beer-cooler again." Paul Hillman --- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, PBowers <waiting@s...> wrote: Canadian Pacific had an interesting "double dutch drop??" in Kasloand probably one of the longest movements of tat type. The inboundtrain left the van on the mainline with brake on as it was an approx 2%grade. The loco and train pulled over the switch, reversed direction and thenwent down another approx 2% grade to the dock. Once the train wasclear, the van brake was released and it rolled to the opposite end of theyard which was on a almost 5% grade. The van reversed direction and returnedback to the switch down to the dock where the brakeman, after changing theswitch to the dock track reboarded and rode the van down the gradecoasting to a stop near the rest of the train. The length of track travelledwas about a half mile.
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Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals
Doug Brown <brown194@...>
Non-roller bearings were labor intensive with the checking and adding of
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lubrication. With higher labor rates and lower parts cost, the break-even point favored roller bearings. Roller bearings also helped eliminate hotbox failures. Doug Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of behillman Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:44 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals Tony Thompson wrote; Looking into roller bearing history, Timken was selling roller bearings for horse-drawn equipment in 1893. Their bearings were incorporated into automobiles quite early, and into machine tools before World War I. (Timken began to call their product an "anti-friction" bearing around 1910.) It is an indication of the conservatism of railroad mechanical people that railroad applications came as late as they did. *************************************************************** Response, In the 1903 book, "Railroad Construction-Theory & Practice", which I afore referred to, concerning at that time the application of roller- journals to freight cars; " But the advantages (of roller-journals) disappear as the velocity increases. The advantages also decrease as the load is increased, so that with heavily loaded cars the gain is small. The excess of cost for construction and maintenance has been found to be more than the gain from power saved." Their thoughts in 1903 were apparently more along the lines of better lubrication of "solid-bearings"; " The resistance could probably be materially lowered (in 'ordinary - journals') if some practicable form of journal-box could be devised which would give a more perfect lubrication." Something happened in later years for the ultimate conversion to roller-journals, probably a significant reduction in costs in applying them to 100's of thousands of freight-cars?? (It's ALWAYS about the "money".) Paul Hillman Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: Bob's photos
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Thomas M. Olsen wrote:
Springfield may have a waiting list of vendors, but they when theyAnd Westerfield has told us he went once and isn't going again. So Springfield isn't exactly presenting "all the big resin producers." Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: dutch drop
Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
This is a "drop". The "Dutch Drop" has the loco speed ahead, throw a switch,
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then loco REVERSES and goes hidey-hole into the spur, switch thrown again, and car rolls past. Its that reversing that gets interesting! Nothing like having your locomotive heading back toward a rolling car to get your attention. Tom
----- Original Message -----
My impression of the Dutch Drop was that, to get a car into a facingpoint spur, the engine sped up and then the car to be dropped was
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Re: Scale Weights - Doubt It
Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
My thoughts were motorized momentum in the cars, or flywheel driven momentum
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in the cars. DCC is too much for individual cars when it is possible to simply (yeah, right!) have the car sense its own speed and through a computer program onboard the car control the momentum motor that drives the wheels, or provides resistance. A flywheel may be a lot easier, not sure about cheaper. It would provide a sort of brake when stopped, but it certainly would push the train along when moving! Tom Jones III
----- Original Message -----
Re: Scale Weights - Doubt It(snip) Then after accomplishing this you run into the problem of how our layoutsaren't actual scale models, in fact most don't even approach being scale. Most are sodrastically foreshortened that a 1:1 freight car's dynamics when scaled down acting under the forces ofmomentum would roll much farther than most of our sidings and yards are long. A freight taking amile to stop would take how many dozen laps of most of our layouts to achieve that? That's if youdon't have a point to point, in that case it just goes over the edge because the world is flat. Herethere be dragons and they find model railroad equipment to be tasty. That's why it keepsdisappearing off the edge of the layout, never to be seen again. :-)the reality that our models are basically toys, well, expensive toys.
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Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals
Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
More like the application of fuel prices and safety issues (i.e., liability
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claims) that moved railroads to roller bearings. Fuel at the time that article was written (1903) was virtually a zero cost item for many railroads, so starting a heavy train and keeping it going with the attendant friction from solid bearings, and the additional fuel expense was not a biggie. For some railroads, simply taking the coal from one of their own mines and moving it to the coaling towers was the sole additional expense. Modernly, its too bad you can't burn coal in Diesels . . . shipping by train would be much cheaper! Additionally, solid bearings have a cute propensity of overheating when poorly lubed and catching the train on fire, or at least melting off the axle end once in a while. Roller bearings also fail from lack of maintenance, but they don't require an inspection at every stop, oiling on a regular basis, people to go out and fill the waste and oil box on the journals, piles of cotton waste and gallons of spilled oil everywhere with the EPA looking over your shoulder, and on and on and on. Finally, spun off axle ends still happen, but not nearly as frequently as with solid bearings. The final straw was that the cost of copper and other metals used to cast solid bearing brass (actually a form of bronze) became higher and higher while the cost of machined steel got lower and lower. There was simply no longer an economic reason to go for the less safe, higher friction, relatively higher cost solid bearings. So, you are right - its ALWAYS the money! Tom Jones III
----- Original Message -----
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals (snip)
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Re: Kaslo double dutch drop
PBowers <waiting@...>
Canadian Pacific had an interesting "double dutch drop??" in Kaslo and probably one of the longest movements of tat type. The inbound train left the van on the mainline with brake on as it was an approx 2% grade. The loco and train pulled over the switch, reversed direction and then went down another approx 2% grade to the dock. Once the train was clear, the van brake was released and it rolled to the opposite end of the yard which was on a almost 5% grade. The van reversed direction and returned back to the switch down to the dock where the brakeman, after changing the switch to the dock track reboarded and rode the van down the grade coasting to a stop near the rest of the train. The length of track travelled was about a half mile.
Peter Bowers -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 8/26/05
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rivet counters gathering in N. Virginia Sat, Aug 27
lnbill <bwelch@...>
Just a note to let people know that they can call me at home today,
Friday, if they have any questions about the informal gathering I am hosting tomorrow at the Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax, 2709 Hunter Mill Road, in Oakton, VA. Go to www.uucf.org for a map. My number is 703.242.7973. I won't be seeing email after I send this. We are the second exit on I-66 past the National Capital Beltway heading west. Take the fork that says Vienna-Oakton and at the third light turn left onto Hunter Mill Road and go about .8 of a mile. We are on the right just past the Church of Later Day Saints or Mormon Church. Walking in from the parking lot, we will be in the building to your left. I am going to try to put a few signs up and I will be keeping an eye out. Bring models, books you think people are interested in, etc. Remember to bring your lunch or money to get something nearby. People will start showing u about 9 AM and we will wind up around 3 PM or so. A couple of presentations are planned that I know of, and we will have a lot of time to get acquainted. See you tomorrow! Bill Welch
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Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals
Paul Hillman
Tony Thompson wrote;
Looking into roller bearing history, Timken was selling roller bearings for horse-drawn equipment in 1893. Their bearings were incorporated into automobiles quite early, and into machine tools before World War I. (Timken began to call their product an "anti-friction" bearing around 1910.) It is an indication of the conservatism of railroad mechanical people that railroad applications came as late as they did. *************************************************************** Response, In the 1903 book, "Railroad Construction-Theory & Practice", which I afore referred to, concerning at that time the application of roller- journals to freight cars; " But the advantages (of roller-journals) disappear as the velocity increases. The advantages also decrease as the load is increased, so that with heavily loaded cars the gain is small. The excess of cost for construction and maintenance has been found to be more than the gain from power saved." Their thoughts in 1903 were apparently more along the lines of better lubrication of "solid-bearings"; " The resistance could probably be materially lowered (in 'ordinary - journals') if some practicable form of journal-box could be devised which would give a more perfect lubrication." Something happened in later years for the ultimate conversion to roller-journals, probably a significant reduction in costs in applying them to 100's of thousands of freight-cars?? (It's ALWAYS about the "money".) Paul Hillman
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Re: dutch drop
Tom Jones III <tomtherailnut@...>
The Dutch drop is not inherently unsafe, just a bit trickier than a simple
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drop or a kick. The trick is to keep the moving dropped car's velocity low, or perhaps have a slight grade to assist and simply let gravity move the car. Putting a brakeman on the car to help control speed (or stop the car in case of emergency) can help. All this can be achieved with a car with sufficient mass that it has high inertia, as most prototype cars have. Except for the run in I described in a much earlier post, I think the most embarassing I have actually seen in a Dutch drop situation was when the dropped car had only enough energy to drive it to the center of the switch - trapping the locomotive on the spur and the car spanning the points, no poling pole. Whoops. The crew ended up pushing the offending car out of the way with a Jeep from a nearby grain elevator. Tom Jones
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [STMFC] dutch drop Snip) The fact that the move is obviously dangerous and can go
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Re: ADMIN: Weather= Not
Paul Hillman
Mike Brock wrote;
"I will also add that weather and climate...unless closely associated with frt cars...is out of scope." ************************************************************ Mike, That's really interesting, because I was just NOW reading from my 1903 book, "Railroad Construction-Theory & Practice", Prof. Walter L. Webb, C.E. ; Chapter XVI, 'Train resistance', ( b ) Journal friction of the axles; (4) "It is observed that freight-train loads must be cut down in winter by about 10 to 15% of the loads that the same engine can haul over the same track in summer. This is due partly to the extra roughness and inelasticity of the track in winter, and partly to increased radiation from the engine wasting some energy, but this will not account for all of the loss, and the effect, which is probably due largely to the lower temperature of the journal-boxes, is very marked and costly. It has been suggested that a jacketing of the journal-boxes, which would prevent rapid radiation of heat and enable them to retain some of the heat developed by friction, would result in a saving amply repaying the cost of the device." Thus, in Cocoa Beach in January, longer, heavier trains can be run than in Chicago, etc.. Now you can prototypically factor that into the reasons for your meet. Paul Hillman
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Re: Steve Solombrino ( was The Springfield Show)
Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I don't need to point this out to most of you, but not ALL of the best modelers in the country are into the "RPM scene". There are many fabulous models on display at Springfield (as there are at regional shows and meets all over the country). One of my favorite displays at Springfield is the Pfaudler tables, where superb, scratchbuilt models of milk trains are on display. And way back in 1989 before I even knew my A end from a B end, I was awestruck by a Prototype Modelers' display led by Steve Solombrino, a great modeler who to my knowledge has never attended a single RPM meet. RPM meets only attract 1% or less of model railroaders -- you can be sure you are missing out on a lot of great modeling if that's all you do." Tim, point well taken; however, in 1989, Steve Solombrino was a fixture at RPM meets (back in the day of the old paper RPM newsletters). If you go back to Schleicher's coverage of the meets in MRG and RMJ from the late 1980s, you'll see his models. Ben Hom
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Re: dutch drop
Richard White
Chet French said:
"A "Dutch drop" is when the engine changes directions to get in the clear, during the move. Usually the dutch drop was made where gravity would lend a helping hand with a slight grade. Often the brakes could be released on a car or cars, and they would roll by the engine, unassisted. We generally would give the cars an easy kick uphill, put the engine in the clear, and wait for the cars to stop and roll back downhill past the engine." It occurs to me that with a steam locomotice this move would be very tricky unless there was a gradient to help as Chet says and even more so if the locomotive was not fitted with a lever reverser as a screw reverser or most of the steam reversers that I have seen in use would take too long to change from forward to reverse gear. With a lever reverser it's quick to change direction. For this reason, most UK steam shunting (=switching) locomotives were fitted with a lever reverse. Richard White -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 24/08/05
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Re: Napierville Dates
Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
Gerard,
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The dates are Thursday, October 27th through Sunday Morning, October 30th. Tom Olsen Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479 Gerard J Fitzgerald wrote:
Hi All,
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Re: Bob's photos
Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
Springfield may have a waiting list of vendors, but they when they finally select a vendor to fill a spot, apparently they won't guarantee the table space until the vendor arrives to set up. Martin Lofton has been asked to attend as a vendor a number of times by the people who run this show, but when he asked if they could guarantee him the table space, their reply was that he had to arrive at the door and they would then see what they could do.
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Martin said that each time that he was asked, he told them that he would only come if they could guarantee the table space as he was not traveling across the country, only to arrive and find that they could not fit him in! That is why Sunshine Models had only been attending the Great Scale Train Show at Timonium Maryland. He knows that he will get the space to set up that he paid in advance for! How could anyone run a show where they invite the dealer/manufacturer to participate, but cannot guarantee as space until he arrives? At this time it is a moot point as Martin has reduced his traveling to shows by almost 75% over the years due to his work backlog. Tom Olsen 7 Boundary Road, West Branch Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479 (302) 738-4292 tmolsen@udel.edu Fred in Vt. wrote:
Rich,
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Re: Bob's photos
Schuyler Larrabee
OK, so it's a little cold in January in Springfield. Maybe.
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My sister called me a few days ago from North Carolina, and mentioned that the temperature was going to be over 100 for the fourth day in a row, and she was looking forward to it's cooling off into the 90s in a few days. And it was humid. Another good friend lives in FL. Used to live near Philadelphia. Complains about how his sinuses give him trouble in FL, because the AC makes things so dry in the house . . .and he has to stay in the house because of the heat. Wishes he still lived in PA. OK, so it's a little cold in January in Springfield. I'll take it. Besides, it's a great show! SGL
----- Original Message -----
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Napierville Dates
Gerard J Fitzgerald <gjf@...>
Hi All,
Not to start another round of comparisons of which meet is best (they are all wonderful in some sense).... I just need the dates for Napierville this year. Thanks. Gerard Dr. Gerard J. Fitzgerald Postdoctoral fellow, Center for Bioethics University of Pennsylvania Medical School
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ADMIN: Weather= Not
Mike Brock <brockm@...>
I will also add that weather and climate...unless closely associated with frt cars...is out of scope. Come on, guys, you know the rules. There are over 900 members in the STMFC and they signed on to discuss frt cars, not weather.
Mike Brock STMFC Owner
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Admin: Re: Cocoa Beach-Springfield
Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Well...I think we've beaten the Springfield subject to death. As the rules specify, announcements about prototype modeling meets are allowed...although only announcements. Train shows are not within scope although an announcement is probably not going to provoke a response from the judge. Anyhow, Springfield and discussions about train shows are now decared out of scope.
Time to get back to frt cars. Thanks. Mike Brock STMFC Owner
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