Date   

freight car photos

ed_mines
 

We are entering kind of a lull for obtaining freight car photos.

Some of the best sources from the past no longer offer prints - Will
Whittaker, Charles Winters, Frank Ellington ...... I think all are
still alive but old age has taken it's toll.

The inability to get traditional silver halide based photogrpahic
paper will probably shut down some of the other men who offer B&W
prints and it is unlikely that older men will spend $1000 on a new
type of photo processor.

I see a light in the tunnel though - as those new digital printers
get less expensive maybe the Smithsonian, Cal State RR museum, NMRA
library, Hagley museum and Ed Hawkins will get those printers and
start producing photos in house. I've gotten good freight car prints
from the first 3 organizations but their current prices are
unbeleiveably high.

I'm very glad builders photos of some cars are available - they are
the only ones I have of some cars I'd like to model. I'm glad too
that Erie had an official photographer who took a lot of "railroad
scenes" photos.

Ed Mines


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

Paul Hillman
 

Yo Al,

Is there any chance that you could scan a photo of these 1925 roller-bearing trucks and send it or post it to pictures? (Without the problem of another copyright infringement thread?)

Also, to paraphrase Bill Shakespeare, "A journal by any other name would smoke the same." I'm just a sleazy electrical-engineer. What do I know about the more mechanical-stuff too? Still learning!!

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: al_brown03<mailto:abrown@...>
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:34 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals


I'm just a chem major Tony, in other fields I'm lucky if my subjects &
verbs agree never mind correct usage of tecknickle terms. :-)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

P.S. Oh, and right after hitting "send" on my previous post, I noticed
another picture of those inside-bearing roller-bearing trucks, this
time on a hopper. Same book, page facing the other pix. Also
installed '25.

--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>, Anthony Thompson <thompson@s<mailto:thompson@s>...> wrote:
> Al Brown wrote:
>
> > A test was run, comparing its rolling
> > qualities to those of a sister car with friction bearings . . .
>
> Tsk, tsk. Still using the term <g>.
>
> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
> 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com<http://www.signaturepress.com/>
> (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s<mailto:thompson@s>...
> Publishers of books on railroad history






Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

al_brown03
 

I'm just a chem major Tony, in other fields I'm lucky if my subjects &
verbs agree never mind correct usage of tecknickle terms. :-)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

P.S. Oh, and right after hitting "send" on my previous post, I noticed
another picture of those inside-bearing roller-bearing trucks, this
time on a hopper. Same book, page facing the other pix. Also
installed '25.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Al Brown wrote:

A test was run, comparing its rolling
qualities to those of a sister car with friction bearings . . .
Tsk, tsk. Still using the term <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

Paul Hillman
 

I just wonder if there is a statistic available about the percentage of US freight cars that had roller-journals and solid or friction journals in 1960. Because, as a kid in the 50's & 60's I spent a lot of time around the railroads and RR yards and remember seeing the RR men opening the journal-covers and inspecting the bearings and "oiling" them, etc. To my remembrance there weren't many roller-journals on freight-cars. To me, then, they were still a "newish" device.

Back then we lived in Dolton, Illinois where 7 RR's crossed; the IC, IHB, NYC, PRR, B&OCT, C&EI & C&WI. I got to see a lot of different equipment. Wish I'd taken more photos, but I was only 15 & 16 yrs. old. Did a lot of mental-noting though.

One night in 1960, a friend of mine & I hopped a slow-moving IHB east-bound freight in Dolton. It was snowing and we got into an empty gondola. The train went further than I thought it would and we wound up at some junction and the train stopped. As we hid in the gon to escape detection, I still remember hearing the journal-inspectors opening and closing the journal-covers, hearing them "clank" back shut. Seemed like they did about the whole cut of cars as I recall. We were there quite awhile hearing their inspections before the train rolled again.

The train wound up going all the way to Inland Steel in Indiana and we wound up getting a ride back in the wood, kerosene-lanterned caboose. (Another story!)

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric<mailto:newyorkcentralfan@...>
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:15 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals


Paul Hillman wrote:

"Something happened in later years for the ultimate conversion to roller-journals, probably a
significant reduction in costs in applying them to 100's of thousands of freight-cars?? (It's ALWAYS
about the "money".)"

Someone in accounting figured out that it was cheaper to use the bearings than it was to pay an
employee to maintain them. That they contributed to the resale value of the truck unlike money
'wasted' paying an employee maintaining them.

Eric Petersson





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ADMIN: Re: Re: The Springfield Show

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes about the Springfield show:

Bill we can't discuss it any further. You can talk about Cocoa Beach,
hotels, and bars, and even warm Florida weather, but please don't say
anything about ... you know what.
As a matter of fact, my messages of August 25 indicate rather clearly that subjects other than those included in the group's rules are out of scope. The rules:

"ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES. Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or
my representatives. Warnings about virus activity is strictly
prohibited. Threads or subjects may be terminated only by myself or my
representatives. When threads/subjects are terminated, members are expected
to avoid sending messages associated with such threads/subjects.

All references to politics or political views are prohibited.

Announcements of frt car related items for sell are permitted BUT actual
lists of items should be made available from the seller upon request rather
than in the message. Announcements of such sells should be kept at a
minimum. The primary objective of the group is to exchange information
concerning the subject.

Members must sign messages with their full names.

Announcements about prototype modeling events is within scope."

Thus, other than announcements...dates, cost, location [ including the facility ], and planned activities...about Prototype Rails at Cocoa Beach, Naperville, St. Louis and various other RPM meets...is out of scope. Since the hotel at which the Cocoa Beach meet is held experienced severe hurricane damage last yr, an update on its condition was certainly warranted. Descriptions of weather around the country including FL can be interesting...even curious...but comments about it are not within scope. Out of scope messages are not uncommon and even expected. Continuing to present out of scope messages, however, when the subject has been declared ended will invoke a response from management.

I'm reminded of the time I was standing next to a policeman near a wedding reception that just ended. Some people came out, jumped in a car and scratched off. Cop just stood there. Then another did it. Then another. Finally, after the 5th one or so, the cop said..."That's it!" jumped in his car, turned on the siren and sped after them. Two warrants were issued this morning and more will follow until we get this group back to frt cars.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

This has been quite a lengthy thread and this may have been covered
earlier. Anyway one reason for the railroads NOT to invest in roller
bearing trucks was that the cars spent a lot of time off line benefiting
another railroad that may not have made a similar investment.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Eric
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:16 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

Paul Hillman wrote:

"Something happened in later years for the ultimate conversion to
roller-journals, probably a
significant reduction in costs in applying them to 100's of thousands of
freight-cars?? (It's ALWAYS
about the "money".)"

Someone in accounting figured out that it was cheaper to use the
bearings than it was to pay an
employee to maintain them. That they contributed to the resale value of
the truck unlike money
'wasted' paying an employee maintaining them.

Eric Petersson





________________________________________________
Get your own "800" number
Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag




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Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

gary laakso
 

I understood that the Milwaukee was one of the first railroads to place
roller bearings on its heavy weight passenger cars. Does anyone know if
the use of roller bearings included express reefers on the Milwaukee?

[Original Message]
From: al_brown03 <abrown@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Date: 8/27/2005 10:04:07 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

In his Wheeling & Lake Erie book (p 59), John Corns shows three early
applications of roller bearings. In 1925, roller bearing arch bar
trucks were applied to a boxcar (one of those bizarre W&LE 27000-
series single-sheathed cars). A test was run, comparing its rolling
qualities to those of a sister car with friction bearings, which
suggests that said qualities weren't well known.

At the same time or a little earlier, roller bearing arch bars were
applied to a company-service flat car. The car was rebuilt from a
gondola in 1917; Corns doesn't say exactly when the roller bearing
trucks were applied.

Also in 1925, the Timken "lightweight inboard bearing truck" (looks
like a modern passenger-car truck) was applied to a W&LE "X29" box.

Apparently there was resistance to accept roller-bearing trucks in
interchange, hence they were applied more widely at first to passenger
equipment and cabooses than to freight cars.

Why W&LE? I *think* Timken, of Canton, Ohio, was a shipper.
Interesting W&LE got out front on this technology: they were said to
have the busiest unsignalled main line in the country, and were
notorious for not painting depots!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Bill Dixon wrote:
Although roller bearings we developed quite early I don't think the
metallurgical technology was up to producing the type of metals
needed
for railway quality bearings until around WW II.
Baloney. The steels used after the war for bearings are the
same
as in the 1920s. And the locomotives and cars which did receive
roller
bearings in the 1930s performed just fine. Railroads just didn't
choose
to use them (or perhaps, feel willing to pay for them).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Brown wrote:

A test was run, comparing its rolling
qualities to those of a sister car with friction bearings . . .
Tsk, tsk. Still using the term <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: The Springfield Show

Tim O'Connor
 

I'm sold. It's a great show. When is it? Does it conflict with
Cocoa Beach?
Bill McCoy
Bill we can't discuss it any further. You can talk about Cocoa Beach,
hotels, and bars, and even warm Florida weather, but please don't say
anything about ... you know what.


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

al_brown03
 

In his Wheeling & Lake Erie book (p 59), John Corns shows three early
applications of roller bearings. In 1925, roller bearing arch bar
trucks were applied to a boxcar (one of those bizarre W&LE 27000-
series single-sheathed cars). A test was run, comparing its rolling
qualities to those of a sister car with friction bearings, which
suggests that said qualities weren't well known.

At the same time or a little earlier, roller bearing arch bars were
applied to a company-service flat car. The car was rebuilt from a
gondola in 1917; Corns doesn't say exactly when the roller bearing
trucks were applied.

Also in 1925, the Timken "lightweight inboard bearing truck" (looks
like a modern passenger-car truck) was applied to a W&LE "X29" box.

Apparently there was resistance to accept roller-bearing trucks in
interchange, hence they were applied more widely at first to passenger
equipment and cabooses than to freight cars.

Why W&LE? I *think* Timken, of Canton, Ohio, was a shipper.
Interesting W&LE got out front on this technology: they were said to
have the busiest unsignalled main line in the country, and were
notorious for not painting depots!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:
Bill Dixon wrote:
Although roller bearings we developed quite early I don't think the
metallurgical technology was up to producing the type of metals
needed
for railway quality bearings until around WW II.
Baloney. The steels used after the war for bearings are the
same
as in the 1920s. And the locomotives and cars which did receive
roller
bearings in the 1930s performed just fine. Railroads just didn't
choose
to use them (or perhaps, feel willing to pay for them).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: The Springfield Show

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Bill,

There is an airport not far from springfield with bus service direct.
Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Culotta
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: The Springfield Show



On Aug 27, 2005, at 7:08 AM, Bill McCoy wrote:

> I'm sold. It's a great show. When is it? Does it conflict with Cocoa
> Beach?
>

Here is the link to the page for the show on the Amherst Railway
Society web site. They organize the show. It's Jan. 28-29 this year.
http://www.amherstrail.org/show/show.htm

And if you want to sound like an out-of-towner from the get-go, call it
"Am-hearst". It's pronounced "Amerst". Make believe the "h" isn't
even there. For bonus points, Holyoke is pronounced "whole yoke", not
"holy oke".

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912



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Re: Bob's photos

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Tony,

Thanks for the info, now I can sit down with my confused friend, and hopefully get him through his Mopac withdrawl symtoms.

Fred F

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Bob's photos


> Let me take this one step further, if you don't mind.
> When a car is resided with steel over the Z bracing, does the ORER
> still list it as Z braced?

No, nor does the ORER normally list Z braces. It would
probably say "all steel" instead of "steel frame" or "steel
underframe."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


SPONSORED LINKS Train travel Freight car Canada train travel
Train travel in italy North american


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Re: The Springfield Show

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Aug 27, 2005, at 7:08 AM, Bill McCoy wrote:

I'm sold. It's a great show. When is it? Does it conflict with Cocoa
Beach?
Here is the link to the page for the show on the Amherst Railway Society web site. They organize the show. It's Jan. 28-29 this year. http://www.amherstrail.org/show/show.htm

And if you want to sound like an out-of-towner from the get-go, call it "Am-hearst". It's pronounced "Amerst". Make believe the "h" isn't even there. For bonus points, Holyoke is pronounced "whole yoke", not "holy oke".

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Thornton Waite

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

Does anyone know how to contact Thornton Waite, where he lives, etc.?

Thank you.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: The Springfield Show

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

I'm sold. It's a great show. When is it? Does it conflict with Cocoa
Beach?

Bill McCoy
Jax

--- In STMFC@..., "armand" <armprem@s...> wrote:
Tim,I always looked forward to Steve's display of milk cars at
Springfield.No question ,Steve is ahead of the curve.I didn't
mean to imply
that all_ the good modelers attended RPM meets....,just some of the
best....Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@c...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] The Springfield Show



Armand Premo wrote

The seminars are super with presentations by some of the best
modelers in the country ...
I don't need to point this out to most of you, but not ALL of the
best modelers in the country are into the "RPM scene". There are
many
fabulous models on display at Springfield (as there are at
regional
shows and meets all over the country). One of my favorite
displays
at Springfield is the Pfaudler tables, where superb, scratchbuilt
models of milk trains are on display. And way back in 1989 before
I even knew my A end from a B end, I was awestruck by a Prototype
Modelers' display led by Steve Solombrino, a great modeler who to
my knowledge has never attended a single RPM meet. RPM meets only
attract 1% or less of model railroaders -- you can be sure you
are
missing out on a lot of great modeling if that's all you do.

Tim O'Connor






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8/24/05


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

Eric
 

Paul Hillman wrote:

"Something happened in later years for the ultimate conversion to roller-journals, probably a
significant reduction in costs in applying them to 100's of thousands of freight-cars?? (It's ALWAYS
about the "money".)"

Someone in accounting figured out that it was cheaper to use the bearings than it was to pay an
employee to maintain them. That they contributed to the resale value of the truck unlike money
'wasted' paying an employee maintaining them.

Eric Petersson





________________________________________________
Get your own "800" number
Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Dixon wrote:
Although roller bearings we developed quite early I don't think the
metallurgical technology was up to producing the type of metals needed
for railway quality bearings until around WW II.
Baloney. The steels used after the war for bearings are the same as in the 1920s. And the locomotives and cars which did receive roller bearings in the 1930s performed just fine. Railroads just didn't choose to use them (or perhaps, feel willing to pay for them).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Bob's photos

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Let me take this one step further, if you don't mind. When a car is resided with steel over the Z bracing, does the ORER still list it as Z braced?
No, nor does the ORER normally list Z braces. It would probably say "all steel" instead of "steel frame" or "steel underframe."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

W.R.Dixon
 

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:14:42 -0500
From: "Tom Jones III" <tomtherailnut@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Solid, Roller & Friction Bearing Journals

More like the application of fuel prices and safety issues (i.e.,
liability claims) that moved railroads to roller bearings.
Except for their catastrophic failure mode roller bearings are better than friction bearings. Friction bearings advertise their pending failure for a long time. As friction bearings heat up they emit smoke from the overheated journal box that an alert train crew could often spot in time.

Roller bearing run until they fail, then they fail Right Now with little or no advance notice. They can run by a hot box detector with no problem and then fail in the next few miles. Because of this failure mode it is always a catastrophic failure. The blessing is that with the improved bearings we have today, the failure rate is very very low.

Although roller bearings we developed quite early I don't think the metallurgical technology was up to producing the type of metals needed for railway quality bearings until around WW II. War is a great technology accelerator and by the end of the war the metallurgical technology and production facilities were in place to produce the quality of bearings needed for railway use.

Bill Dixon


Re: Scale Weights - Doubt It

Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
 

Amen to that! Real brakemen don't use magnets! They make the cut!

On Aug 26, 2005, at 8:52 PM, <@RobManley> wrote:

Roger,
They did and I had one. The flywheel was powered by a rubberband to a plastic drum pulley mounted on one of the axles. It performed much like a rubberband. Most of my cars have Interrmountain standard or semi fine scale wheelsets and they mimic the momentum better than the flywheel gimic. If you pre-pposition your Kadees so that they will not couple, you can with practice, switch on the fly.
Real brakemen don't use uncoupling magnets,
Rob Manley
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Parry
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Scale Weights - Doubt It


Did not NWSL offer a flywheel chassis that could be used with an Athern
box car to simulate train momentum?
On Aug 26, 2005, at 12:27 PM, Tom Jones III wrote:

My thoughts were motorized momentum in the cars, or flywheel driven
momentum
in the cars. DCC is too much for individual cars when it is possible to
simply (yeah, right!) have the car sense its own speed and through a
computer program onboard the car control the momentum motor that
drives the
wheels, or provides resistance. A flywheel may be a lot easier, not
sure
about cheaper. It would provide a sort of brake when stopped, but it
certainly would push the train along when moving!

Tom Jones III

----- Original Message -----
Re: Scale Weights - Doubt It
(snip)
Then after accomplishing this you run into the problem of how our
layouts
aren't actual scale
models, in fact most don't even approach being scale. Most are so
drastically foreshortened that a
1:1 freight car's dynamics when scaled down acting under the forces of
momentum would roll much
farther than most of our sidings and yards are long. A freight taking
a
mile to stop would take how
many dozen laps of most of our layouts to achieve that? That's if you
don't have a point to point,
in that case it just goes over the edge because the world is flat.
Here
there be dragons and they
find model railroad equipment to be tasty. That's why it keeps
disappearing off the edge of the
layout, never to be seen again. :-)

The more you try to mimic the prototype the more you end up
demonstrating
the reality that our
models are basically toys, well, expensive toys.




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