Date   

Re: Tank cars for molasses delivery

irv_thomae <ithomae@...>
 

I can answer a few of Lynn Finch's questions, but don't know of any
photos.

The "VT feed store" he has heard about was a "For-All Store",
located in South Ryegate, in a dairy region on the Montpelier & Wells
River some half-dozen miles west of the B&M/CP Connecticut River main
line. A few years ago, as part of an oral history project, a friend
and I interviewed "Andy", a now-retired farmer who worked there in the
late 30's as a teenager.
Andy told us that back then, feeds were quite commonly mixed to
order, and molasses was a frequent component. Understandably,
however, no Depression-era Vermonter would use store-bought feed when
his own pastures were green, so most feed sales occurred during the
winter months - when the overnight temperatures often reached -30 F.
To keep the molasses manageably fluid, it was stored underground, in
the recycled body of an 8,000-gallon tank car. (You probably couldn't
do that today - I have no idea how they cleaned residual oil out of it
before its first load of molasses.)
When For-All needed more molasses, it came up from Boston via the
Concord-Plymouth line. By the time it got to Woodsville, of course,
it was pretty solid - so the tank car was spotted next to the
Woodsville roundhouse for 24 hours or so, with its heating coils
connected to a steam line. The next morning, the M&WR hauled it out
to South Ryegate, where simple gravity was now sufficient to refill
the store's tank. I don't know if portions of a single tankcar load
were delivered to other customers, but I tend to doubt it would have
been practical.

After WWII, that feed store changed hands a few times. Eventually,
the building was demolished, and its 8000-gallon tank was sold to a
fuel-oil dealer, who returned it to its original use - sort of. They
set the tank up on steel legs in Bradford, VT, and it was still there
the last time I looked.

I have no idea how much of this story can be generalized to NYO&W
territory, but it may give some sense of what problems had to be dealt
with - along with the unlikelihood that any two businesses solved them
exactly the same way.

If you do track down any photos, please let me know - So. Ryegate
will be a major focus of my (HO) layout, so I really need at least one
appropriately lettered tank car.

Irv Thomae
in Norwich, Vermont

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "loconut35" <lmfin@c...> wrote:
Looking for info on tank cars used to tranport molasses from 1940
to the mid 50's
I have the Illinois Railway museum photo of GATX 75470 but I
believe this car was built in 1960. I understand there is a Ben
Brown photo of an 8,000 gal. tank car at a VT feed store and a photo
of ISTX 533 by John LaRue but I have not been able to locate
either. I believe I have read every posting in the archive about
molasses tank cars (helpful) and am looking for help in locating
more articles and photos.
I am building a model of a feed store complex on the NYO&W
located in Merrickville, NY. An 8,000 gallon tank car would fit in
the area nicely but from an interview with the owners daughter it
appears the storage tank may have been half that size. It appears
that most tank cars of this era were 8000 gallon capacity. Were
tank cars, used for molasses shipment, of this era, smaller than
8000 gallons? Or was the molasses too heavy to fill 8000 gal cars to
capacity? Or tanks cars delivered to one feed mill, partially
unloaded and then sent on to another mill? Or only loaded to the
quantitiy ordered? Or?
Thanks for your help, Lynn Finch


Re: RDG USRA gons (was Taylor trucks)

Larry Kline
 

Richard Townsend asked:
I wonder how accurate the p/l is on the Reading model (number aside).

It matches the 1957 Col. Chet McCoid photo of RDG 24198 that Richard
Hendrickson mentioned. Its also on sale.
http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-7461

The Walthers photo shows a car numbered 23035 which is in a series of
21 cars (23015-23350) These were rebuilt in 1938 according to Eric
Neubauer's RDG roster which also says that they ran until 1966.
http://www.enter.net/~eaneubauer/rdg.htm
The 10-56 ORER says that all 21 were still in service and that they are
container gons. There are photos of 23019 and 23035 (with Taylor
trucks) on Rich Yoder's web site. Rich imported very nice O scale USRA
gon and USRA clone gon brass models.
http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym_fc_rdg_cont_gon.htm

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Tank Car decals HELP

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Allen;
Thanks very much for that info! Who are good purveyors of these decals?

Have you done either the Norwest kit or the Tichy kitbash? How were
they?

Thanks again,

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
ajfergusonca
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:07 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tank Car decals HELP

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
wrote:
, are
there any other decal sets available in HO that are appropriate
for the
timeframe of this list?
Most of Black Cat's decals are pre 1965 (and mosly Canadian) Scales
other than HO are available as well:

NSOX351 North Star Oil 8000 gal. Tank Car(start with
Intermountan 8000)1930s -1971
BAOX #833 Tank car - bow tie Pre 1947
BAOX #358 Tank Car - Roundel 1947-1967
CGTX #1 703 war emergency tank car- 10,000 or 8000 Usgal
(kitbash Tichy)pre 1960s
GATX 20717 Tank car 1930s-1960s
IOX 3248 Imperial Oil tank car(Norwest Kit #120 1930s- 1955
CIL #7011 Tank car 1940s -1970s
MFLX #753 McColl Frontenac tank cars 1930s-1950s
CN #990857 Tank car(Norwest Kit #120) 1930s-1960s
CN #990925 Tank car(1943 war emergency)1940s-1960s
CPR#415408 8 & 10,000 gal. Tank cars(Norwest #120 or
Intermountain)pre 1967
Sinclair Billboard style silver on black

Allen Ferguson










Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Taylor trucks

Richard Townsend
 

Thanks. The Walthers cars are even on sale right now. I wonder how accurate the p/l is on the Reading model (number aside).

Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

On Sep 1, 2005, at 8:02 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Richard Townsend asked:
"I have come into possession of a pair of Taylor trucks. �My
understanding is that Taylors were used exclusively (or almost so) by
the Reading. �My question is this: what series of cars, if any, would
have had Taylor trucks in 1958?"
"I'm looking for a good modeling candidate, which in my case is a car
that I can model with an available kit."

Oy. �From a modeling standpoint, Reading's pre-WWII boxcars are a pain
in the ass.... etc. etc.
Ben got so absorbed in the problems of modeling the Reading's box cars
that he overlooked a much easier solution. �One series of Reading GML
USRA-design 70 ton mill gondolas had Taylor trucks, series 23500-24499
built in 1926. �Those cars can be modeled with Westerfield resin kits
or, if you're willing to fix some minor shortcomings, Walthers styrene
models, and many of them were still in revenue service in 1958. �In
fact, I have a Col. Chet McCoid photo of RDG 24198 still going strong
and in excellent condition in December, 1957. �Of course, the Reading
gons had 70 ton, not 50 ton, Taylor trucks, but since the journal boxes
on most model trucks are oversize anyway, I'll bet the trucks Richard
Townsend has would represent the gondola trucks quite convincingly.

Richard Hendrickson

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


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Re: Tank Car decals HELP

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks for the clarification, Andy.

I may buy a couple sets, just to see if there is useful data there.
They may straddle eras, if I'm lucky.

Take care,

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Miller,Andrew S.
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Tank Car decals HELP

Eldon,

Almost all of the ISP decals are contemporary. However, Bill Onorato,
the owner, art department, production mgr and head of shipping ;-) has
been doing this for over twenty years. So "contemporary" is relative.
Bill once told me he would be happy to do steam era cars for me but has
rarely seen good color photos of them. With contemporary cars he
frequently can obtain the assistance of the car's owner- usually in
exchange for a few finished decals.


regards,

Andy Miller


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Gatwood, Elden
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Tank Car decals HELP

Folks;

Can anyone tell me what the approximate eras are for the Islington
Station line of decals for tank cars? They have some
interesting-looking sets, but I have no idea as to the appropriate
dates
they are good for.



Aside from the Champ decal line, and the nice Microscale decal sets,
are
there any other decal sets available in HO that are appropriate for the
timeframe of this list? And, speaking of the Microscale sets, are
these
all good for the pre-'60 timeframe, or are these later lettering
schemes?



Are there any tank car manufacturer logos for our era in any of these
sets?



Thanks!



Elden
















Yahoo! Groups Links











Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Taylor trucks

Richard Townsend
 

Sorry. HO. Ben Hom and Richard Hendrickson guessed right. I should have made that clear at the outset.

"Rich Yoder" <oscale48@comcast.net> wrote:

What scale do you model in?

Rich


----- Original Message -----
From: <richtownsend@netscape.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:13 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Taylor trucks


I have come into possession of a pair of Taylor trucks. �My understanding
is that Taylors were used exclusively (or almost so) by the Reading. �My
question is this: what series of cars, if any, would have had Taylor trucks
in 1958? �I'm looking for a good modeling candidate, which in my case is a
car that I can model with an available kit.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


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--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


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resources wanted for gondola ends

Justin Turpin <birdbiz2003@...>
 

I am using the Atlas HO scale 8 panel gon . a photo of the prototype is at


http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13564



Sincerely

Tyler Turpin



Tyler Turpin asked:
"does anyone know of photos or other sources of detailed info on the
ends of the 8 panel gons rebuilt in 1953 for the C AND EI these were
series 95300 to 95399. The photo online is good for the sides but not
good enough to detail the ends for the members of this group.
converting the kit to the prototype mainly means sanding off a lot of
rivets, removing the left side of the ladder frame on the right hand
side, and adding some grab irons and probably $5.00 worth of parts to
the ends and some cutting on the ends may be required.the step plate is
too high and has to go. A quick cheap kitbash that will produce a very
accurate model from a car that can be picked up for under $7.00 at
shows may be possible."

1. Do you have a URL for the "photo online"?
2. What model are you using for your starting point?


Ben Hom







---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page


Re: CNW 40ft PS-1 boxcar details

Mark Heiden
 

Hello Ed,

Thanks for the information. Are any of the photos you listed
published, like in the Freight Cars of the Fifties series in Model
Railroading magazine? Also, Kadee released two PS-1 models from
this series, cars 664 and 1555. Are these accurate enough to use as
a reference for painting and lettering?

Thanks again,
Mark Heiden


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@s...> wrote:
Mark,
The first 800 cars had Youngstown doors and the last 200 cars had
5-panel Superior doors. Hand brakes were Miner, Ajax, and
Universal,
however I don't know the exact car number assignments. Running
boards
were either Apex or U.S. Gypsum. Photos show that most, if not
all,
cars had A-3 R.C. trucks. In addition to the Whittaker photo,
there's a
bunch of available photos of cars from this series, including from
Richard Burg (664/1289), Bob's Photo (1219 in color), Charles
Winters
collection (1572), Joe Collias (1008/1588), Dick Kuelbs (691), and
Mike
Gruber (664/838/1289 from the Tom Martorano collection). Hope this
helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Re: CNW 40ft PS-1 boxcar details

Ed Hawkins
 

On Thursday, September 1, 2005, at 04:02 PM, Mark Heiden wrote:

I have some questions concerning the details of some Chicago & North
Western 40ft PS-1 boxcars.  The series is 656-1655, 1000 cars built in
1954. I have only been able to find one picture, a broadside shot of
CNW 1102, on the pay-side of the NEB&W website:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/PS-1';s/XM-PS-1-
CNW-1102-Whittaker.jpg

Does anyone know what kind of roofwalk and brakewheel these cars were
built with?  Also, what sort of trucks did they have?  The trucks look
like Kato ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks to me, but I'm not certain about
that.
Mark,
The first 800 cars had Youngstown doors and the last 200 cars had
5-panel Superior doors. Hand brakes were Miner, Ajax, and Universal,
however I don't know the exact car number assignments. Running boards
were either Apex or U.S. Gypsum. Photos show that most, if not all,
cars had A-3 R.C. trucks. In addition to the Whittaker photo, there's a
bunch of available photos of cars from this series, including from
Richard Burg (664/1289), Bob's Photo (1219 in color), Charles Winters
collection (1572), Joe Collias (1008/1588), Dick Kuelbs (691), and Mike
Gruber (664/838/1289 from the Tom Martorano collection). Hope this
helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Taylor trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 1, 2005, at 8:02 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Richard Townsend asked:
"I have come into possession of a pair of Taylor trucks. My
understanding is that Taylors were used exclusively (or almost so) by
the Reading. My question is this: what series of cars, if any, would
have had Taylor trucks in 1958?"
"I'm looking for a good modeling candidate, which in my case is a car
that I can model with an available kit."

Oy. From a modeling standpoint, Reading's pre-WWII boxcars are a pain
in the ass.... etc. etc.
Ben got so absorbed in the problems of modeling the Reading's box cars that he overlooked a much easier solution. One series of Reading GML USRA-design 70 ton mill gondolas had Taylor trucks, series 23500-24499 built in 1926. Those cars can be modeled with Westerfield resin kits or, if you're willing to fix some minor shortcomings, Walthers styrene models, and many of them were still in revenue service in 1958. In fact, I have a Col. Chet McCoid photo of RDG 24198 still going strong and in excellent condition in December, 1957. Of course, the Reading gons had 70 ton, not 50 ton, Taylor trucks, but since the journal boxes on most model trucks are oversize anyway, I'll bet the trucks Richard Townsend has would represent the gondola trucks quite convincingly.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: truck naming

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:15 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Tony and Richard, thanks for these replies - I appreciate learning that
things aren't as simple or straightforward as they once seemed. I
take it
then the old adage about using a photo is pretty much the starting
point for
picking/modelling a truck - the specs alone just won't do?
I can't speak for Richard, but I'd say you would prefer to have
both. The photo is primary, because sideframe shapes did vary with time
as well as with manufacturer, and you can always find the closest match
possible in the limited universe of model trucks. "Closest," that is,
for a given set of design aspects, such as spring planks, bolster
snubbers, etc. The specs do help too but only to narrow down what you
are looking at in the models.
I once thought I could collect truck drawings and info from the
Cycs and have a complete listing of what every mfgr. made. Wrong. They
by no means always put all the product into a particular Cyc. And it
isn't hard to find car photos with trucks which don't exactly match
anything in a Cyc. Richard's article in RP CYC is a landmark in setting
a framework for this topic, but there are many, many details he simply
couldn't cover, as I'm sure he will be quick to say.
All completely true, and clearly and concisely stated.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: truck naming

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:
Tony and Richard, thanks for these replies - I appreciate learning that
things aren't as simple or straightforward as they once seemed. I take it
then the old adage about using a photo is pretty much the starting point for
picking/modelling a truck - the specs alone just won't do?
I can't speak for Richard, but I'd say you would prefer to have both. The photo is primary, because sideframe shapes did vary with time as well as with manufacturer, and you can always find the closest match possible in the limited universe of model trucks. "Closest," that is, for a given set of design aspects, such as spring planks, bolster snubbers, etc. The specs do help too but only to narrow down what you are looking at in the models.
I once thought I could collect truck drawings and info from the Cycs and have a complete listing of what every mfgr. made. Wrong. They by no means always put all the product into a particular Cyc. And it isn't hard to find car photos with trucks which don't exactly match anything in a Cyc. Richard's article in RP CYC is a landmark in setting a framework for this topic, but there are many, many details he simply couldn't cover, as I'm sure he will be quick to say.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


truck naming

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Tony and Richard, thanks for these replies - I appreciate learning that things aren't as simple or straightforward as they once seemed. I take it then the old adage about using a photo is pretty much the starting point for picking/modelling a truck - the specs alone just won't do?

Rob Kirkham,


Re: Taylor trucks

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Townsend asked:
"I have come into possession of a pair of Taylor trucks. My
understanding is that Taylors were used exclusively (or almost so) by
the Reading. My question is this: what series of cars, if any, would
have had Taylor trucks in 1958?"

Page 68 of the Morning Sun Reading Color Guide shows RDG 102123 from
RDG 101000-102999, Class XMu, 1910 cars remaining in January 1959.
This car has Taylor trucks; photo taken at Shamokin, PA, October 14,
1962. Here's an earlier photo from Ted Culotta's website:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/rdg102751main.html


"I'm looking for a good modeling candidate, which in my case is a car
that I can model with an available kit."

Oy. From a modeling standpoint, Reading's pre-WWII boxcars are a pain
in the ass. With the exception of their USRA SS boxcars, almost all
classes are tantalizingly close to available kits, but have one or
more significant differences that make building an accurate model
difficult. At first glance, Class XMu looks like an X29 copy.
However, even though this car has flat ends, it has 8-panel sides, a
Hutchins roof, and an IH of 9 ft 3 in, 8 inches taller than the X29.
The height difference is what makes this kitbash difficult -
otherwise, you could use the ends from a Red Caboose kit, the sides
from the Westerfield USRA-design steel boxcar (from the earlier flat
kits), and a Hutchins roof cut from an Accurail SS boxcar. To get the
correct height, you'll need to splice sides and ends.

Red Caboose did offer the X29 as a Reading Class XMt boxcar, which was
a 8 ft 7 in IH car with flat ends; however, it has 10 panel sides vs
the 8 panel sides of the protoype, and I have not seen a photo of
these cars with Taylor trucks (my Reading resources are admittedly
thin). The bottom line - it depends on what compromises that you can
live with.


Ben Hom


Re: Taylor trucks

Rich Yoder
 

What scale do you model in?

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: <richtownsend@netscape.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:13 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Taylor trucks


I have come into possession of a pair of Taylor trucks. My understanding is that Taylors were used exclusively (or almost so) by the Reading. My question is this: what series of cars, if any, would have had Taylor trucks in 1958? I'm looking for a good modeling candidate, which in my case is a car that I can model with an available kit.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


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Black Cat decalsRe: Tank Car decals HELP

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson asked:
"Does Black cat have a website?"

http://www.greatdecals.com/BlackCat.htm


Ben Hom


Re: C&EI 8 panel gondola

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tyler Turpin asked:
"does anyone know of photos or other sources of detailed info on the
ends of the 8 panel gons rebuilt in 1953 for the C AND EI these were
series 95300 to 95399. The photo online is good for the sides but not
good enough to detail the ends for the members of this group.
converting the kit to the prototype mainly means sanding off a lot of
rivets, removing the left side of the ladder frame on the right hand
side, and adding some grab irons and probably $5.00 worth of parts to
the ends and some cutting on the ends may be required.the step plate is
too high and has to go. A quick cheap kitbash that will produce a very
accurate model from a car that can be picked up for under $7.00 at
shows may be possible."

1. Do you have a URL for the "photo online"?
2. What model are you using for your starting point?


Ben Hom


c & ei 8 panel gongondola

birdbiz2003 <birdbiz2003@...>
 

does anyone know of photos or other sources of detailed info on the
ends of the 8 panel gons rebuilt in 1953 for the C AND EI these were
series 95300 to 95399. The photo online is good for the sides but not
good enough to detail the ends for the members of this group.
converting the kit to the prototype mainly means sanding off a lot of
rivets , removing the left side of the ladder frame on the right hand
side, and adding some grab irons and probably $5.00 worth of parts to
the ends and some cutting on the ends may be required.the step plate is
too high and has to go. A quick cheap kitbash that will produce a very
accurate model from a car that can be picked up for under $7.00 at
shows may be possible.

Sincerely ,

Tyler Turpin


Taylor trucks

Richard Townsend
 

I have come into possession of a pair of Taylor trucks. My understanding is that Taylors were used exclusively (or almost so) by the Reading. My question is this: what series of cars, if any, would have had Taylor trucks in 1958? I'm looking for a good modeling candidate, which in my case is a car that I can model with an available kit.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


__________________________________________________________________
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As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register

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Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
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Black Cat decalsRe: Tank Car decals HELP

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

does Black cat have a website?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "joe binish" <joebinish@earthlink.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tank Car decals HELP


If any one has not used Black Cat's 'cals- Please do! They are nothing
short of the best I have ever used(this from a 1/72 aircraft modeler, as
well as a resin car builder with 30+ operating on 3 layouts)
The Sinclair set is really slick on the P2K kit.
Joe Binish






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