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Re: NMRA Open Loads Publication

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I have a copy of the "Rules Governing..." booklet dated 1933, effective
Jan. 1, 1934, published by the American Railway Association (before it
was reorganized and became the Association of American Railroads).
There is no copyright statement to be found anywhere in it, from which
I infer that the ARA didn't bother to copyright it . . .
Under the rules then in force, the absence of a copyright notice (and symbol) AUTOMATICALLY places the material in the public domain. It matters not whether they registered it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NMRA Open Loads Publication

Richard Hendrickson
 

Sorry, guys, I inadvertently sent a reply that wasn't a reply. Here's what I meant to post:

On Sep 12, 2005, at 7:07 PM, Tom Persoon wrote:

Here's a crazy thought - if anyone has a copy of a pre-1950 Rules Governing
the Loading etc. perhaps some sort of arrangement could be made to scan the
pages and post them to a web page. The AAR owns the copyright and they
have in the past been cooperative about allowing publication of select
pages. Since it is unlikely that any of the pre-1950 material is relevant
today, they might agree to it. I don't know who to talk to at AAR but it
wouldn't hurt to ask.
I have a copy of the "Rules Governing..." booklet dated 1933, effective Jan. 1, 1934, published by the American Railway Association (before it was reorganized and became the Association of American Railroads). There is no copyright statement to be found anywhere in it, from which I infer that the ARA didn't bother to copyright it, probably assuming that it would soon be replaced by an updated version. It therefore appears that permission to duplicate it isn't required. However, it consists of 250 pages, many of them devoted to unusual loads (e.g., steam traction engines) which would be of little interest to most modelers, so I'm doubtful about whether it would be worthwhile to duplicate the entire book.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NMRA Open Loads Publication

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 12, 2005, at 7:07 PM, Tom Persoon wrote:

At 07:46 AM 9/12/2005 +0000, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

But of what vintage were the loading diagrams? The loading rules
changed often, and diagrams representing the loading rules of the '80s
and '90s are of no use to steam era modelers.

Richard Hendrickson
The load diagrams are from 1976.

Although I try to vary the subjects covered in Open Loads, I model the post
1980 era and thus most of the articles are from that era.

Here's a crazy thought - if anyone has a copy of a pre-1950 Rules Governing
the Loading etc. perhaps some sort of arrangement could be made to scan the
pages and post them to a web page. The AAR owns the copyright and they
have in the past been cooperative about allowing publication of select
pages. Since it is unlikely that any of the pre-1950 material is relevant
today, they might agree to it. I don't know who to talk to at AAR but it
wouldn't hurt to ask.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: NC&StL and CN flat car (Tichy) trucks

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Brewer wrote:
"I believe John Greene (Bethlehem Car Works) also offers these trucks in cast lead or similar alloy."

Part #1224 - this model has a different sideframe profile than the ECW or Sunshine trucks:
http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Kit_Bits/index.html#Trucks


Ben Hom


Bev-Bel offerings - thanks

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks to everyone who contributed to my education on this subject.

Rob Kirkham


Re: NC&StL and CN flat car (Tichy) trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 12, 2005, at 6:00 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

I've been working on a couple Tichy 40' flat car kits (AC&F, 1923 NC&StL
prototype) and I have decided to model one as an NC&StL car and one as a
CN car. My question is what trucks are appropriate for these cars circa
1944? There is a builders photo of NC&StL at the RPI (pay) site
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Flats/Flat-cars-NC&StL- like-Tichy-28-cyc.jpg
that appears to show a cast sideframe truck with an interesting spring
package (4 visible with the center 2 protruding more). I would appreciate
any suggestions on the correct trucks to use on these models.
Bruce, I have both builder's and in-service photos of the 1923 NC&StL 70100-70299 series flat cars, and they were built with, and kept at least into the late 1950s, ARA cast steel trucks with spring planks (Accurail's mis-named "Bettendorf" trucks in HO). The truck you describe does sound like a Dalman, as Tim O'Connor indicated, but though Dalman trucks had been invented by 1923, they weren't used much until later in the decade.

As for the CN flat cars, the photos I have of cars in the 651460-652209, 652210-653268, and 653269-653768 series, all of which can be modeled with the Tichy kit, show them with essentially the same ARA trucks as the NC&StL cars.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Bev-Bel offerings

W.R.Dixon
 

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:50:00 -0000
From: "gsb157" <sgaab@ptd.net>
Subject: Re: Bev-Bel offerings
Rob,
In a word, no. I've seen more than my share of "phantom" car/road name offerings. I have not seen the ad you mention and am not familiar with the Imperial Oil line tankers, so the accuracy of those I cannot comment on.
Greg Bartek
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@s...> wrote:

Hi,

I just noticed the add in Sept. RMC, p.26, for Bev-Bel Corp, selling kits and assembled models of Imperial Oil (and affiliated) tank cars.
The art work looks good enough from what can be seen in the
photos, but I am wondering if this is a case of applying the
right paint job to the wrong car? Does Bev-Bel have a reputation
for matching the two precisely?

thanks
Rob Kirkham
As well as producing their own painted cars, Bev-Bel is the US seller for the Hobbycraft Canada Life-Like products. When sales of the Canadian only products have run their course in Canada the products are released to Bev-Bel to sell in the US.

What you see listed in the Bev-Bel adds are cars that were released a year or more ago in the Canadian market. Many of them are still in stock at your LHS.

Regards
Bill Dixon


Re: NC&StL and CN flat car (Tichy) trucks

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

I believe John Greene (Bethlehem Car Works) also offers these trucks in cast lead or similar alloy.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@worldnet.att.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NC&StL and CN flat car (Tichy) trucks


Bruce Smith asked:
...what trucks are appropriate for these cars:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Flats/Flat-cars-NC&StL-
like-Tichy-28-cyc.jpg

Tim O'Connor replied:
"Dalman 2-level. Eastern Car Works."

Specifically, Eastern Car Works #9061, currently showing in stock at
Walthers. Sunshine also offers a sprung version which should be
available at Naperville. (I'm not sure who made the ones that Martin
stocks.)

ECW also sells a 70 Ton Dalman Roller Bearing truck (#9065) that they
attribute to a "4 truck flat". Any other applications for this truck?


Ben Hom






Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: NC&StL and CN flat car (Tichy) trucks

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bruce Smith asked:
...what trucks are appropriate for these cars:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Flats/Flat-cars-NC&StL-
like-Tichy-28-cyc.jpg

Tim O'Connor replied:
"Dalman 2-level. Eastern Car Works."

Specifically, Eastern Car Works #9061, currently showing in stock at
Walthers. Sunshine also offers a sprung version which should be
available at Naperville. (I'm not sure who made the ones that Martin
stocks.)

ECW also sells a 70 Ton Dalman Roller Bearing truck (#9065) that they
attribute to a "4 truck flat". Any other applications for this truck?


Ben Hom


Re: Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons done in resin???

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
Once upon a time I compared notes with Frank Hodina, relative to
pattern and book compensation, and we agreed we were both doing
it 'cuz we wanted to. Sure not for the money.
There is an example of a resin kit priced to include design &
pattern costs - the ventilated boxcar kit marketed by the CofG
Society. The patterns were designed in 3D CAD and created by
stereolithography. I have one, it's nicely done, but I wouldn't say
it's significantly better than something Frank could do, and its $50
price tag is $15 to $20 more than the equivalent Sunshine or
Westerfield kit. I think that was a short run of 50 or 100 kits,
which means the extra cost barely covered the out-of-pocket design
and SLA charges. I don't know what Andy Carlson would consider
adequate compensation for his hypothetical 100 hour patterns, but
$20 per hour would add $7 to the price of each kit in a typical
Sunshine initial run of 300.

Maybe a basic resin kit should cost $50 so the pattern makers could
be compensated. But we're dealing with modelers spending
discretionary funds and, like it or not, "the market" thinks a resin
freight car kit should be priced in the $30's, not the $50's. An
alternative is for the pattern maker to contract out the casting but
do all the packaging & marketing himself. That's what Aaron
Gjermundson (Northern Specific Models) has done with his NP stock
and flat car kits. I do the casting, he does everything else. That
meant he had to trust his patterns to the US Postal Service and me,
but he figured he could always remake them in less time if disaster
struck.

Tom Madden


Re: NMRA Open Loads Publication

Tom Persoon <persoons@...>
 

At 07:46 AM 9/12/2005 +0000, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

But of what vintage were the loading diagrams? The loading rules
changed often, and diagrams representing the loading rules of the '80s
and '90s are of no use to steam era modelers.

Richard Hendrickson
The load diagrams are from 1976.

Although I try to vary the subjects covered in Open Loads, I model the post 1980 era and thus most of the articles are from that era.

Here's a crazy thought - if anyone has a copy of a pre-1950 Rules Governing the Loading etc. perhaps some sort of arrangement could be made to scan the pages and post them to a web page. The AAR owns the copyright and they have in the past been cooperative about allowing publication of select pages. Since it is unlikely that any of the pre-1950 material is relevant today, they might agree to it. I don't know who to talk to at AAR but it wouldn't hurt to ask.


Tom Persoon
persoons@ia.net


Re: love's labor lost (was Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons)

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony Thompson explains

By the time I paid my expenses on the PFE book, I found it had eaten up
practically all the royalties. Let me help you with the math: that's
approximately zero per hour.
Tony, you lose money on every book, but you make up for it in volume!

ba-dum-bump

Tim :-)


Re: NC&StL and CN flat car (Tichy) trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

My question is what trucks are appropriate for these cars
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Flats/Flat-cars-NC&StL-like-Tichy-28-cyc.jpg

Dalman 2-level. Eastern Car Works.


Re: Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons done in resin???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
Tony,
You might feel different if it was your 100 + hour labor...
Tim O'Connor replied:
Yep, Tony's not giving away his labor! :-)
Gee, guys, want to guess what an author gets per hour? By the time I paid my expenses on the PFE book, I found it had eaten up practically all the royalties. Let me help you with the math: that's approximately zero per hour. And many books don't sell as well as that one. Once upon a time I compared notes with Frank Hodina, relative to pattern and book compensation, and we agreed we were both doing it 'cuz we wanted to. Sure not for the money.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons done in resin???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
Not a good analogy. Records and photos are our prime
source of history, whereas a model is an artistic
interpretation of that history.
The analogy was with anal retention.

I just don't feel anyone "owes" the
hobbyists & Mrfg's free pattern work.
Who used the words "owe" and "free"? You did. I said "make available," with terms obviously to be specified. I completely understand the wish to be compensated for work, whether in money or in kind. What I don't understand is the person who says, "I made a master for resin kits for myself, and no one else can ever get any of the parts." Note I didn't say I was surprised; just that I don't understand.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


NC&StL and CN flat car (Tichy) trucks

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Folks,

I've been working on a couple Tichy 40' flat car kits (AC&F, 1923 NC&StL
prototype) and I have decided to model one as an NC&StL car and one as a
CN car. My question is what trucks are appropriate for these cars circa
1944? There is a builders photo of NC&StL at the RPI (pay) site
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Flats/Flat-cars-NC&StL-like-Tichy-28-cyc.jpg
that appears to show a cast sideframe truck with an interesting spring
package (4 visible with the center 2 protruding more). I would appreciate
any suggestions on the correct trucks to use on these models.

Thanks
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons done in resin???

Andy Carlson
 

Not a good analogy. Records and photos are our prime
source of history, whereas a model is an artistic
interpretation of that history. I am not depriving you
of history by not giving my patterns to a commercial
operation for little to no compensation. It is
fortunate for us our favorite 2 resin suppliers have
model builders supplying patterns for little
compensation. I just don't feel anyone "owes" the
hobbyists & Mrfg's free pattern work.

As to analogies, a better one-... say you worked on
the text of a RR book, and were to
give it to another publisher, who might give you 3
copies.

-Andy Carlson

--- Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
wrote:
But to

make a master and then deny it to anyone else is
exactly like rescuing
railroad records or photos and then locking them up
in your garage.


Re: Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons done in resin???

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony,
You might feel different if it was your 100 + hour labor...
-Andy Carlson Ojai CA

Yep, Tony's not giving away his labor! :-) But there's also the aspect
that the master builders are usually modelers, too, and they want to
move on to something else or just don't want to "commercialize" a model
they made for their own use. Frank Hodina did a PFE R-40-26 many years
ago and only this year will Sunshine release a kit. Claire Gilbert has
done some fantastic custom work under contract, but got so sick of mass
production (like casting, building, painting & decaling 100 identical
freight cars) that he wanted nothing more to do with that model! We're
just lucky to get what we get, I think...

Tim O'Connor


--- Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:
And hopefully make a few available (or loan the masters) for
others to do the same. The labor on a master shouldn't be hidden under
a bushel.


Re: Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons done in resin???

Tim O'Connor
 

Jason, from what I know about resin kits, the manufacturers often
rely on master model builders to create the models... and that means
that the model usually is made only if someone cares enough to create
the masters for it. So.... you want to tackle the UCR gons? Like you
said, a bunch of us would sure like to see a kit!

Tim O'Connor

Maybe I am living a pipe dream but it seems like there are a
significant number of modelers who would like some of the UCR gons,
what are the chances of getting a resin company like Sunshine or
Westerfield to produce these if we were able to gain a large number of
firm commits? Anyone tried anything similar to this? Give me a
reality check if I need it, please!

Jason Sanford


Re: Possibility of getting Utah Coal Route Gons done in resin???

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
You might feel different if it was your 100 + hour
labor...
Sure, and I understand why a person might want to sell copies from the molds; others might prefer to loan molds, not masters. But to make a master and then deny it to anyone else is exactly like rescuing railroad records or photos and then locking them up in your garage. But of course YMMV.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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