Date   

Re: Railroad Press Magazine

Greg Bartek
 

Ed,

If this is the magazine you mention, is it also referred to as TRP, The
Railroad Press? When I can get it, I look forward to the articles
written by Mike Bednar. Great insights to the Lehigh Valley region.

Greg Bartek

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
Anyone familiar with "Railroad Prsss magazine"?

Ed


Re: pattern making

Tim O'Connor
 

But Paul, that's an entirely different equation -- SPH&TS doesn't do custom
tooling, it just does custom paint. Many vendors will do this at very reasonable
prices. My club has raised thousands of dollars for itself selling Intermountain,
Accurail, Athearn and other cars with custom lettering -- and at low prices they
sell as many as 500 cars. This year we're doing the new Accurail 3-bay hopper.

I'm not interested in that stuff -- what I'd like is a 1950's SP TOFC train, and
no one is going to produce SP Clejans (two styles) and SP F-70-10 flat cars in
plastic, plus the trailers... And I'd really like SP G-50-25's (I think that is the
correct class), which was the gondola used for Kaiser ore before the delivery
of the 100 ton cars.

Resin also seems ideal for production of details like -- cushion underframes,
unique box car doors, scale draft gear, coil car hoods, and stuff like the passenger
car parts Tom mentioned. It may also be good for trucks that will never be done
in plastic, like the Chrysler trucks, the 2DF8's with coil-leaf-coil package, etc.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:
We use a figure of 100 kits for the SPH&TS annual car, we usually sell out
and it works out fine for us. 300 kits will take a long time to amortize
your investment.
Paul C. Koehler


Railroad Press Magazine

ed_mines
 

Anyone familiar with "Railroad Prsss magazine"?

Ed


Re: BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Sep 16, 8:22am, Bruce Smith wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] BLI vs. Walthers express reefers
AFAIK, they are identical prototypes. I would LOVE to see an
unbiased side by side review of these cars.

Perhaps if you wait long enough, that fellow from Auburn will write them
up in The Keystone Modeler.

;-)

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Stereolith / Rapid Prototyping.

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Sep 15, 10:46pm, raildata@... wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Stereolith / Rapid Prototyping.
I have been doing engineering design of injection molded cars and
locomtives
for virtually every HO and O scale manufacturer for many years using
AutoCAD.
For what it is worth, my guess (and Tom concurs) is that the "man hours"
involved in doing a set of 3D CAD designs for a resin master is about
the same
as for doing an injection molded car.
Chuck,

Is it easier to create a CAD drawing for RP as compared to doing
drawings for injection-molding? I am under the impression that I could
easily do a CAD drawing for a box car, whereas DESIGNING injection molds
requires far more intelligence, skill, and experience than just re-drawing
a paper drawing on the computer. I would think that the RP method frees
one from having to consider things like material flow, how to eject the
part from the mold, etc. I do, of course, realize that resin casting can
only handle undercuts to a very limited extent.

Are my fantasies even *close* to reality, or am I way off base?

Thanks,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: pattern making

Paul & Theri Koehler <buygone@...>
 

Tim:



We use a figure of 100 kits for the SPH&TS annual car, we usually sell out
and it works out fine for us. 300 kits will take a long time to amortize
your investment.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
timboconnor@...
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 8:33 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: pattern making



Even at Al's quoted price of $3,000 this seems like a very low barrier
to entry for would-be manufacturers who want to see their favorite
prototype cars produced. Amortizing over 300 kits is $10 each which
seems very, very reasonable to me. I think many people have the
data and photos, so if people like Jim King are offering their services
I hope we'll see more good stuff. The only risk is that attracting 300
buyers is more daunting than it should be -- I think Jon Cagle has
not sold nearly that number of his amazingly good Harriman cars.

Tim "wannabe resin kit entrepreneur" O.





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Re: pattern making

Tim O'Connor
 

Even at Al's quoted price of $3,000 this seems like a very low barrier
to entry for would-be manufacturers who want to see their favorite
prototype cars produced. Amortizing over 300 kits is $10 each which
seems very, very reasonable to me. I think many people have the
data and photos, so if people like Jim King are offering their services
I hope we'll see more good stuff. The only risk is that attracting 300
buyers is more daunting than it should be -- I think Jon Cagle has
not sold nearly that number of his amazingly good Harriman cars.

Tim "wannabe resin kit entrepreneur" O.


Re: BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

AFAIK, they are identical prototypes.<
I have a pair of BLIs as the lettering I wanted (earlier style) was not
done by Walthers. Not being a expert on these cars all I have to say is
they look very nice and I didn't have to installing the handrails.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: CG ventilated boxcar & pattern making

James Eckman
 

From: "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@...>

One additional note - this is not for the faint of wallet! You're dealing with a $250K machine and resin that runs a buck a gram.
Kind of like laser machining systems 20 years ago. Now you can get a desktop for $4K? Still even $4K is expensive for one tool, but the service bureaus will get better and in a few years we can crank out freight car parts like there's no tomorrow! There's laser cut freight car kits now.

I had one of our sales guys price out those windowed boxcar side pieces (three needed to make one side) as if I were a regular customer, and he came up with $163. Each.
For the level of detail, how many hours would it take to make one piece? 10? 20? more? Sounds not unreasonable.

All that showed is that our pricing algorithims don't work for very small and complex parts, and we worked out a much more favorable price. But be prepared for sticker shock.
What's more reasonable? Ballpark is fine...

Even so, if you value your time at all, or if you can't model to that level of detail, it's worth it. That's why this thread grew from Andy Carlson's observation that not every skilled pattern maker wants to work for free.
I usually build wooden cars so the rivet issue doesn't come up, but if it does!!!

From: raildata@...

I have been doing engineering design of injection molded cars and locomtives for virtually every HO and O scale manufacturer for many years using AutoCAD. For what it is worth, my guess (and Tom concurs) is that the "man hours" involved in doing a set of 3D CAD designs for a resin master is about the same as for doing an injection molded car. The injection molded design takes a bit more because of air brake piping, etc. which are cast instead of letting the modeler form from wire.
If there are any savings, they would be when you make variations which is trivial with CAD, not so trivial with models.

What this means in terms of $$$ is a function of what hourly rate you set for a CAD design engineer vs a highly skilled modelmaker. Interesting question, but basically it is what themarket will support!
Hopefully it will stay high, otherwise some of my friends will have to flip burgers instead!

Jim Eckman


A point of order - war board cousins

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

Tony, of course you are correct. I didn't intend to be lazy and slip in that poor excuse, but was attempting to limit the discussion and try to keep it corralled within the bounds. I should have known the rocket scientist and metallurgist would not let it go. I spoke with Bob LeMassena for a few hours one day about this topic (if you have ever spoke to Bob about steam locomotives, you realize that this qualifies as a short talk). He explained the metal issues (and it is also in his book "Superpower in the Rockies") but he went into it further in person.

As another aside, there were a LOT of improvements that came near the end of steam that showed tremendous promise that had they been followed through might have shown tremendous leaps over then current technology. I'm sure the Pennsy foamers can chime in here. But that too is a trip off the course.

And, as another aside, yes, Richard, my understanding of the Car Construction Committee is less than decent, something that is a result of being more interested in slightly narrower and shorter cars that were running behind steam for a much longer span and having to be more conversant with certain other aspects of certain railroad in order to try to write about it.

My interests in these specific cars have to do with the possibility of finding a car "family" that might be made available for the roads that didn't have large fleets of cars liable to be targets of manufacturer (like, say the AT&SF). From your note though, it seems the approach has already been used. However, I wonder then about tank cars as that is one car type that always seems to be decried as not having proper representation in the model world due to the many variances and the uncertain prototypes so far chosen.



At 02:54 AM 9/16/2005, you wrote:
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:08:21 -0700
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: A point of order - war board cousins

Bob Webber said:
. . . Bob [LeMassena]
has explained the problem, bad boiler metals caused some premature
boiler issues that caused some boiler mishaps and they figured they'd
retire them rather than reboiler them."
Yes. I did a bit of research and noted the same thing. Interestingly,
NP
encountered the same thing and they did reboiler.
While we are on "metallurgy," I will comment briefly that the
steels chosen in order to go to thinner boiler shells (thus saving
weight on these big locos) yet keep high boiler pressures turned out to
be unsuitable. It was not "bad metal" but a poor choice by the
builders, who chose the alloys used. They turned out to be sensitive to
stress-corrosion cracking under the temperatures and water chemistries
used. Had this not happened at the very end of steam, it would surely
have been corrected (there are far better alloys to use), but of course
this was not to be.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompson@...
Bob Webber


Re: BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Sep 15, 2005, at 11:28 PM, blindog@... wrote:

Now that Broadway has released their GACX 53'6" express reefer, why should we care? Is it a different prototype than the Walthers model? They look almost identical. The Broadway version costs a couple dollars more.
Scott,

AFAIK, they are identical prototypes. I would LOVE to see an unbiased side by side review of these cars.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: detail of AAR 1937 boxcar kit

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Sep 16, 2005, at 12:00 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Speaking of which, has anyone seen a good roof shot of C&O 4500-4999?
Larry Smith said they had Murphy roofs, not Vikings, but I've never
seen proof either way.

My copy of C&O's 1960 Freight Car Diagrams notes that these cars had
"Hutchins Dry Lading 15 Ga." roofs, Youngstown doors, Dreadnaught ends, Ajax
brake wheel and wood running board.

Regards --
Steve Busch
Steve, what kind of roof is that? Like the C&O 7000-series cars had?
For our intents it is a Murphy roof, by another name (vendor).

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: LV flats was War production board

al_brown03
 

See Bossler, "CNJ/LV Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment",
p 74 (LV 10038 with load of wrapped steel plate)

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@a... wrote:

Brian writes:

"Richard said:
On the other hand, the only taker of Pennsy F30A design flat cars
was the
Lehigh Valley (50 cars).
Wow, I never new the LV had F30A's does anyone know where I can
find
pictures of this class. Is this 50 car series 10,000-10,049?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY"

Ah Ha!

But the N&W did adopt the Pennsy F30d (the welded version) of the
car and I
have some photos of these. They are nearly indistinguishable from
the cast
version of the car. They were produced in the early 1950's. The
Bowser kit can
be utilized for these.

Greg Martin







Re: CG ventilated boxcar & pattern making

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Brian Chapman wrote:

Fascinating information, and I thank you much for providing it. I
don't know how much longer you're willing to discuss this, but I have
a few more comments and questions, if you're willing.
Expertise is a relative thing. I've been trying to present the
technology, as it were, but delving further into software nuances and
what one needs for driving various RP equipment is out of my range.
This is industrial equipment and I didn't intend to convey the idea
that it was on its way to your workshop. It's just a different way of
creating patterns for resin casting, and the cost is very reasonable
_if_ you think a pattern maker should be paid for his time. What Jim,
Chuck and I have posted is probably enough for now.

Tom Madden


Re: LV flats was War production board

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Scott Chatfield wrote:
I shot one of these some years ago. I'd have to look up the slide, but I'm guessing 1989 in Pennsylvania.
Yes, but was it badly hurt? <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Now that Broadway has released their GACX 53'6" express reefer, why should we care? Is it a different prototype than the Walthers model? They look almost identical. The Broadway version costs a couple dollars more.

Scott C


Re: LV flats was War production board

D. Scott Chatfield
 

.....the only [other] taker of Pennsy F30A design flat cars was the
Lehigh Valley (50 cars).

I shot one of these some years ago. I'd have to look up the slide, but I'm guessing 1989 in Pennsylvania.

Scott Chatfield


Re: Mystery Auto Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 15, 2005, at 6:49 PM, Justin Kahn wrote:

Here's one for the resident experts: among a large quantity of model
drawings and instructions sheets that just arrived is what appears to be a
genuine sheet from a prototype diagram book, but without identifying road.
The collection comes from California, which may (or may not) be relevant.
50 Ton Auto #86000-86149, 50' 6" single-sheathed autocar with fishbelly
steel underframe, built by Mt Vernon 1929, Dreadnaught ends, Youngstown
doors. The last notation on the sheet is 12-46.
Missouri Pacific.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: A point of order - war board cousins

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
On Sep 15, 2005, at 5:41 PM, Bob Webber wrote:

...[T]he more germane point to this list .... is war board
requirements relative
to new designs and non-strategic materials and such.

It would seem likely that there would be analogous cases of
freight
cars that are close cousins (we know of the mill gons and the 40's
gons as two examples). The 40 foot cars have been done last year
by
Sunshine. Are there then other cars that would make sense from a
manufacturer point of view...?
Bob is apparently unaware that the AAR Car Construction Committee
took
on the project, just before the US entered WW II, of designating
"recommended practice" freight car designs which represented the
best
current car building practice and had already been built, so that
they
could be quickly ordered into production to meet wartime freight
car
shortages without additional design/tooling. These designs,
adopted in
October, 1941, were all shown in both drawings and photos in the
1943
and 1946 Car Builders' Cyclopedias. They included a 41'6" 50 ton
solid
bottom gondola (built by Bethlehem for the Atlantic Coast Line), a
41'
50 ton drop bottom GS gondola (built by GATC for the Illinois
Central),
a 52'6" 70 ton drop end mill gondola (built by Bethlehem for the
Lehigh
Valley), a 65'6" 70 ton drop end mill gondola (built by GATC for
the
Santa Fe), a 53'6" 50 ton riveted flat car (built by Pullman-
Standard
for the Union Pacific), a 53'6" 70 ton riveted flat car (built by
Greenville for the Erie), and a 50' 70 ton flat car with one piece
cast
steel underframe (the Pennsylvania RR class F30A). No box cars or
hopper cars were designated because AAR standard designs already
existed for these car types.

Within months, the AAR standard and recommended practice designs
were
reworked to employ wood instead of sheet steel for side sheathing,
slope sheets, floor stringers, etc. and became the composite "war
emergency" designs that were built in limited numbers during World
War II. ,snip>

Richard,

Oops. The last paragraph above caused me to reason that perhaps the
Wabash composite gons built in 1944, were the above designs reworked
with wood sides and floors. The 50 ton 41'-6" 13500-14849 series
steel gondolas built by Decatur from 1944 to 1946 were probably
closer to the design of the ACL gons. The Wabash 10 panel gon is
available from Sunshine.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Mystery Auto Car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Justin Kahn wrote:
Here's one for the resident experts: among a large quantity of model
drawings and instructions sheets that just arrived is what appears to be a
genuine sheet from a prototype diagram book, but without identifying road.
The collection comes from California, which may (or may not) be relevant.
50 Ton Auto #86000-86149, 50' 6" single-sheathed autocar with fishbelly
steel underframe, built by Mt Vernon 1929, Dreadnaught ends, Youngstown
doors. The last notation on the sheet is 12-46.
I don't know what it is, Justin, but it isn't SP.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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