Date   

Re: pattern making

John Boren <mccjbcmd@...>
 

I've seen the company's website, and I was very disappointed.
They require you to use their proprietary software, which is VERY
restrictive, and they will only cut wood.
Their software only supports certain designs of windows and doors
(for structures), and that's it.

I do not see any benefit to STMFC modeling from that company
(their name escapes me, too!)

Regards,

-Jeff
Jeff et al:

King Mill Enterprises at
http://www.kingmill.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=40

Jack Boren


Re: Stereolith / Rapid Prototyping (trying again)

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Jeff Aley asked:
Is it easier to create a CAD drawing for RP as compared to doing
drawings for injection-molding? I am under the impression that I
could easily do a CAD drawing for a box car, whereas DESIGNING
injection molds requires far more intelligence, skill, and
experience than just re-drawing a paper drawing on the computer.
I would think that the RP method frees one from having to consider
things like material flow, how to eject the part from the mold,
etc. I do, of course, realize that resin casting can only handle
undercuts to a very limited extent.

Are my fantasies even *close* to reality, or am I way off base?
Gee Jeff, I'm not sure I want any insight into your personal fantasies!

CAD for RP is neither easier nor harder than CAD for injection
molding, just different. For starters, your parts can have recesses on
the bottom side, but not details. Remember that honeycomb support
structure I mentioned? All features on the first layer have to bridge
multiple cells of that honeycomb or they will simply float away and
sink to the bottom of the tank. You want to avoid overhangs for the
same reason - everything on a part has to be supported by something as
it is built. Don't put fine details on vertical surfaces - rivets
built sideways don't look very good. Avoid sloped or curved surfaces
if possible. They show stairstepping, which on a 1:1 conventional RP
part is removed by sanding. You can't do that on a miniature part with
rivets. So, the idea is to break down your model into a series of flat
RP parts, then build those flat parts (or first-generation castings of
them) into the actual casting masters. Stereolithography doesn't do
very thin parts well, so if you want thin flat parts, design them on a
thicker support plate and flat cast them later. See the following
photo for an example:
http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Details.jpg

The parts are left & right "wings" for the top of a Pullman blind end
(sloped surfaces on the finished end) and left & right collision posts
for the same end (vertical surfaces on the finished end). I made a
rubber mold from that plate and two others, which I then cut apart so
that the surfaces of the plates became the surfaces of three new,
small molds for flat casting. Easier to show than to describe, but I
just did the first pour on those molds and they're in the pressure
tank curing right now.

My Naperville clinic on this topic will have some "Gee Whiz!" stuff
just for show, but mostly I'll be going over design considerations
like the above.

Tom Madden


FW: Recent Health Issues

Douglas Harding <d.harding@...>
 

Justing, got this message from Gene the other day. He is doing very well.

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com <http://d.harding.home.mchsi.com/>


Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:44 AM

Subject: Recent Health Issues


To all who wished me well or remembered Heide and me in your prayers, THANK
YOU! I feel better now than I have felt in a couple of years. (Apparently
that is typical for this type of procedure.)

I first noticed symptoms at 3:30 AM Saturday. By 4 AM the ambulance had
transported me to the ER. By 10:30 AM the problem had been identified and
two stents inserted through my groin. Two arteries leading to my heart had
been blocked 100%. I was discharged from the hospital just after 5 PM
Monday.

I'll know the extent of heart damage, etc. in a couple of weeks but, in the
meantime, I feel confident that all my weakness, light-headedness, etc. in
Iowa last year was likely related to this. I am abundantly optimistic about
everything.

Gene


Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso


_____

Yahoo! for Good
Click here <http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/> to donate to the
Hurricane Katrina relief effort.


Re: BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Greg Martin
 

Scott wrote:

Now that Broadway has released their GACX 53'6" express reefer, why
should we care? Is it a different prototype than the Walthers model? They look
almost identical. The Broadway version costs a couple dollars more.<<



Bruce wrote:

Scott,
AFAIK, they are identical prototypes. I would LOVE to see an unbiased side
by side review of these cars.

Regards
Bruce<

I too would like to see a comparison, but not to each other, rather both to
an accurate set of plans. This is the only true comparison.

Greg Martin


Re: pattern making

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Mike,

I didn't go to Cinnci but the name of the business is King Mill Enterprises. They have released a very nice kit of the N&W depot at Green Cove (made famous in an O. Winston Link photo) as a kit called Nella Country Store & Post Office. Both very nice kits. I'm sure freight cars were spotted at the Green Cove depot (mandatory content).

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Aufderheide" <mononinmonon@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] pattern making


I visited a freind last night that had attended the
Cinci NMRA convention. He saw a company that was
planning to sell software soon which would design CAD
patterns to do laser cutting. The modeler will use
the software to design the pattern for the laser cut
object at his home, e-mail that CAD file to the
company, and the company will send the laser cut
object to the customer. This was being developed with
strutures in mind, but I'd imagine there would be some
freight car possiblities.

Did anyone else see this?

What materials can be cut like this?

Is this any use for making resin patterns?

Regards,

Mike

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Re: A point of order - war board cousins

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 16, 2005, at 6:51 AM, Bob Webber wrote:

....However, I wonder then about
tank cars as that is one car type that always seems to be decried as
not having proper representation in the model world due to the many
variances and the uncertain prototypes so far chosen.
Actually, by ca. 1930 there were only two tank car manufacturers in the U.S., AC&F and General American, (plus one in Canada, Canadian Car & Foundry), and the two tank car designs that were being built from 1930 through WW II were the AC&F Type 27 and the GATC Type 30. These were thus de facto "standard" designs. The problem is that they were made in a variety of types (ICC-103, insulated ICC-104, insulated high pressure ICC-105, and other specialized tank designs for acids, corrosive chemicals, and such) as well as a variety of sizes, everything from 4,000 gal. to 12,500 gal. After WW II, both AC&F and GATC switched to all welded construction, though their tank car designs didn't change much in other respects.

Briefly, during WW II, there was a "war emergency" tank car design, intended to save steel, which was assigned specification USG-A and AC&F built more than 700 of them; they were essentially the 10,000 gal. tank of USRA design (never actually built during WW I but resurrected during WWII) mounted on a standard AC&F Type 27 underframe. Those cars can be modeled in HO scale with a Tichy tank on an Intermountain underframe, plus some detail modifications.

Conveniently, both AC&F and GATC mounted both 8k and 10K tanks on the same underframes, and Intermountain takes advantage of this to produce both 8K and 10K versions of the Type 27s with ICC-103 tanks, as does Life-Like in their models of the earlier AC&F Type 21s. But that's no help in modeling smaller size tank cars, of which there were many, nor multiple compartment cars which were almost all of 6K gal. or smaller capacity, nor large insulated ICC-105s used for chlorine and LPG service. So, in effect, the standardization of tank cars in that era meant that all the underframe components were the same, except that the underframes were of different lengths, while the tanks varied widely in size and type.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: pattern making

Michael Aufderheide
 

Jeff,

The only thing that comes to mind after hearing this
is that one could potentially have custom flat car
decks and roof walks. It sounds like the technology
might allow that, but not the vender.

Thanks for the info.

Mike

--- jaley <jaley@...> wrote:

Mike,

I've seen the company's website, and I was very
disappointed.
They require you to use their proprietary software,
which is VERY
restrictive, and they will only cut wood.
Their software only supports certain designs of
windows and doors
(for structures), and that's it.

I do not see any benefit to STMFC modeling from
that company
(their name escapes me, too!)

Regards,

-Jeff


On Sep 16, 11:49am, Mike Aufderheide wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] pattern making
I visited a freind last night that had attended
the
Cinci NMRA convention. He saw a company that was
planning to sell software soon which would design
CAD
patterns to do laser cutting. The modeler will
use
the software to design the pattern for the laser
cut
object at his home, e-mail that CAD file to the
company, and the company will send the laser cut
object to the customer. This was being developed
with
strutures in mind, but I'd imagine there would be
some
freight car possiblities.

Did anyone else see this?

What materials can be cut like this?

Is this any use for making resin patterns?

Regards,

Mike
--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533



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Re: pattern making

Charlie Vlk
 

This is an interesting thread and, since it does bear on the possibilities
of bringing production and semi-production freight cars to market, I think
fairly relevant to this list.
A group of us have been working with Mark4 Designs (Mark Gasson). He is a
New Zealander who has just relocated home after retiring early from a career
with BP in the US and other places in the world. He has invested in a rapid
prototyping machine called a prefactory. It is capable of doing objects in
acrylic plastic. The machine is not as expensive as the ones quoted
previously in this thread but is far from the reach of casual hobbyists.
Right now because of the cost of amortizing the machine and the build time,
the highest and best use of this machine is in the creation of masters for
resin casting. Material costs are not so severe as to eliminate the
possibility of some parts being offered directly out of the machine... Mark4
sells replacement hoods, cabs, and noses to modify Atlas and other brand
locomotives.
We have not arrived at any final pieces yet (mainly due to Mark's
relocation) but are working on a N Scale Baldwin Centercab Transfer
locomotive, steel mill bottle cars, and a CB&Q SM16 stockcar. The test
shots have been outstanding and promise to be excellent pieces once final
parts are completed.
The resolution of the process is entirely sufficient for Model Railroad
purposes. Z Scale rivets are very crisp and correctly shaped. The "stair
stepping" of early stereolithography parts is not present... there is very
little evidence of the layers that the part is built up from and most of it
can be eliminated by building the part in the correct orientation. The
material is a light-cured acrylic plastic which has very good hardness and
other characterisics.
The prefactory is in many ways a magic machine. Any object that can be
drawn in a 3d program (Solidworks is one, Rhino is another) can be processed
into a solid object in any scale from Z to G (there are some size
limitations in the build area of currently available machines which tend to
favor Z, N and HO rolling stock and smaller detail parts only for larger
scales).
The advantage over hand building masters is not great in terms of time for
the first part. Railroad cars tend to be highly modular and use standard
assemblies and parts. The real advantage to the process comes to the fore
when you begin to assemble libraries of parts and can build variations of
previously rendered objects with literally a couple of keystrokes instead of
cutting apart previous submasters to hand build new versions.
The company that is offering the kitOmat design program for custom lasercut
buildings has, as far as I can determine, a rather simplistic program for
very basic building shapes. Design of laser cut parts is not a very
difficult process and it seems to me that laser cut wood is not an ideal
medium for freight cars (or even cabooses and other non-revenue or passenger
equipment) given that the process only can yield wood sides and windows and
doors and flat roof parts. Rapid prototyping can give you all the parts
necessary for any car with the exception of the wheel pairs and the couplers
of choice.
Rapid prototyping will come down in price to the point it will be within the
reach of casual manufacturers. The learning curve to know how to draw
objects in 3D that are usuable and the tricks necessary to get usable
finished parts out of the machine is not inconsequential.... and, depending
on the amortization period selected, the hourly cost of the machine is very
substantial.
There may be processes to use the output of a prefactory, either directly
using different mediums or indirectly using the prefactory to make mold
inserts and/or as an intermediate step in emerging technologies to get to
hard tooling. This opens up the possibility of many short production cars
that are limited to resin copies of hand built masters today.
We are living in the Golden Age of Model Railroading today, but even better
things are on the horizion for tomorrow!!
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources


Re: pattern making

Charles Hladik
 

Mike,
I had Chris Jesse, owner of King Mill, make me a Deck for a SN3 PBL flat
adn had him bore 168 holes so I could put Tichy rivets in to simulate
carriage bolts. Very nice.He claims that he can do 25 for about $4.00 each. I don't
remember his web site but I'll see him Saturday morning at the NMRA MER
James River Division meeting in Charllottesville Virginia.
Chuck Hladik


Re: pattern making

jaley <jaley@...>
 

Mike,

I've seen the company's website, and I was very disappointed.
They require you to use their proprietary software, which is VERY
restrictive, and they will only cut wood.
Their software only supports certain designs of windows and doors
(for structures), and that's it.

I do not see any benefit to STMFC modeling from that company
(their name escapes me, too!)

Regards,

-Jeff

On Sep 16, 11:49am, Mike Aufderheide wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] pattern making
I visited a freind last night that had attended the
Cinci NMRA convention. He saw a company that was
planning to sell software soon which would design CAD
patterns to do laser cutting. The modeler will use
the software to design the pattern for the laser cut
object at his home, e-mail that CAD file to the
company, and the company will send the laser cut
object to the customer. This was being developed with
strutures in mind, but I'd imagine there would be some
freight car possiblities.

Did anyone else see this?

What materials can be cut like this?

Is this any use for making resin patterns?

Regards,

Mike
--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: NP 83750-83999 stock cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Thomas Olsen asked:
"The other question here is whether Ben Hom ever got his car order from
Aaron from two years ago? Ben was the last one waiting for Aaron to
send him his car."

I did, back in July. (Thought I cc:ed everyone about it.)


Ben Hom


Al Kresse Contact Info (Re: detail of AAR 1937 boxcar kit)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rich Yoder asked:
"Does anyone know how to get in touch with Al Kresse?"

The latest C&O Historical Magazine lists Al's contact info as:

Al Kresse
8664 Gates
Romeo MI 48065-4365
water.kresse@...

BTW, the July/August issue has two articles of interest for list
subscribers:

"Moving the Packages (LCL on the C&O)" by Charles W. Bohi

"C&O" 9500-9999 Steel-Sheathed Automobile Box Cars" by Al Kresse


Ben Hom


Re: pattern making

Michael Aufderheide
 

I visited a freind last night that had attended the
Cinci NMRA convention. He saw a company that was
planning to sell software soon which would design CAD
patterns to do laser cutting. The modeler will use
the software to design the pattern for the laser cut
object at his home, e-mail that CAD file to the
company, and the company will send the laser cut
object to the customer. This was being developed with
strutures in mind, but I'd imagine there would be some
freight car possiblities.

Did anyone else see this?

What materials can be cut like this?

Is this any use for making resin patterns?

Regards,

Mike

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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Re: Autocar ID

Justin Kahn
 

Thanks to both Tony and Richard (the two resident experts did each take a swing at it). I wondered about SP, as they did have singlesheathed 50' door-and-a-half cars in several varieties, but if Tony says no, I can't imagine anyone better informed on SP freight cars. Now, I wonder how the MP diagram got in this collection, but after all these years I doubt I shall ever learn.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.



Here's one for the resident experts: among a large quantity of model
drawings and instructions sheets that just arrived is what appears to
be a
genuine sheet from a prototype diagram book, but without identifying
road.
The collection comes from California, which may (or may not) be
relevant.
50 Ton Auto #86000-86149, 50' 6" single-sheathed autocar with fishbelly
steel underframe, built by Mt Vernon 1929, Dreadnaught ends, Youngstown
doors. The last notation on the sheet is 12-46.
I don't know what it is, Justin, but it isn't SP.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
Subject: Re: Mystery Auto Car

On Sep 15, 2005, at 6:49 PM, Justin Kahn wrote:

Missouri Pacific.

Richard Hendrickson
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Re: NP 83750-83999 stock cars

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

The other question here is whether Ben Hom ever got his car order from Aaron from two years ago? Ben was the last one waiting for Aaron to send him his car.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


joe binish wrote:

Getting back to actual freight cars...

Has anyone seen any photos of the NP stock car as produced by Aaron in ND?
I have a second series kit(nice moldings Tom), and would like to pick a
different # than the prototype photo in the instructions.
TIA,
Joe Binish





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Re: pattern making

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I'm not interested in that stuff -- what I'd like is a 1950's SP TOFC train, and
no one is going to produce SP Clejans (two styles) and SP F-70-10 flat cars in
plastic, plus the trailers... And I'd really like SP G-50-25's (I think that is the
correct class), which was the gondola used for Kaiser ore before the delivery
of the 100 ton cars.
Challenging goals, but interesting. And you're very, very close, Tim: I might even give you an A- on it: it was actually G-50-26. BTW, there are also photos of 1920s GS gons in the Kaiser trains.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


NP 83750-83999 stock cars

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Getting back to actual freight cars...

Has anyone seen any photos of the NP stock car as produced by Aaron in ND?
I have a second series kit(nice moldings Tom), and would like to pick a
different # than the prototype photo in the instructions.
TIA,
Joe Binish


Re: Railroad Press Magazine

Greg Bartek
 

Ed,

If this is the magazine you mention, is it also referred to as TRP, The
Railroad Press? When I can get it, I look forward to the articles
written by Mike Bednar. Great insights to the Lehigh Valley region.

Greg Bartek

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
Anyone familiar with "Railroad Prsss magazine"?

Ed


Re: pattern making

Tim O'Connor
 

But Paul, that's an entirely different equation -- SPH&TS doesn't do custom
tooling, it just does custom paint. Many vendors will do this at very reasonable
prices. My club has raised thousands of dollars for itself selling Intermountain,
Accurail, Athearn and other cars with custom lettering -- and at low prices they
sell as many as 500 cars. This year we're doing the new Accurail 3-bay hopper.

I'm not interested in that stuff -- what I'd like is a 1950's SP TOFC train, and
no one is going to produce SP Clejans (two styles) and SP F-70-10 flat cars in
plastic, plus the trailers... And I'd really like SP G-50-25's (I think that is the
correct class), which was the gondola used for Kaiser ore before the delivery
of the 100 ton cars.

Resin also seems ideal for production of details like -- cushion underframes,
unique box car doors, scale draft gear, coil car hoods, and stuff like the passenger
car parts Tom mentioned. It may also be good for trucks that will never be done
in plastic, like the Chrysler trucks, the 2DF8's with coil-leaf-coil package, etc.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:
We use a figure of 100 kits for the SPH&TS annual car, we usually sell out
and it works out fine for us. 300 kits will take a long time to amortize
your investment.
Paul C. Koehler


Railroad Press Magazine

ed_mines
 

Anyone familiar with "Railroad Prsss magazine"?

Ed

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