Date   

Re: B&LE freight car roster

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "bierglaeser" <bierglaeser@y...> wrote:
They were kind of like wooden boxes with sliding doors in the center
of each side and four little wheelies under each end.
Gene, I liked you better when you were sick.

Thanks for the information. If we find out what the ends looked like I
could build one from Ertl stash?
Thanks,
Clark Propst


Re: B&LE freight car roster

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

They were kind of like wooden boxes with sliding doors in the center
of each side and four little wheelies under each end.

Seriously though, I can only shed a little light but perhaps someone
else can expand upon this: In purchase AFE cars described as "double-
sheathed, having Mogul ends and fish belly underframes." Cars
rebuilt at Marshalltown in April, May & June 1941. Reweigh date
would be "MN 4-41," etc.

If M&StL was running true-to-form (see the word if a beginning of
sentence) then they would have come out of the shop looking like USRA
double sheathed box cars with who-knows-what ends. Given the date
built, though, the cars could not have been USRA double-sheathed box
cars to begin with.

Their number series on the B&LE was 80,000 and 82,000 (specific
numbers available upon request) so maybe someone B&LE inclined can
add more info.

Last two of these cars lasted until July 1947 on the M&StL.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@n...> wrote:
In 1941 the M&StL received 25 exB&LE box cars. The M&StL numbered
them
50300-5348 even. Can you tell me what these cars looked like??
Thanks,
Clark Propst---


Re: Detail of AAR 1937 boxcar - Murphy and Hutchins Roofs

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Sep 17, 2005, at 9:01 PM, S. Busch wrote:


Some further thoughts about the Murphy and Hutchins roofs on C&O cars -

Now I've had my work cut out for me!

I normally think of Murphy roofs as the type with raised rectangular panels,
as supplied with the Red Caboose / Intermountain / IMWX 1937 boxcars, for
example.

The Hutchins Dry Lading roofs were rather flat paneled, with a thin raised
stiffening ridge running across the the center, parallel to the seams.
Accurail supplies a real nice one with it's 40' outside braced single sheet
box car. Ted Culotta used one of these on his Illinois Central auto car
article in the Nov. 2004 RMC. Anyway, the C&O Diagram for the 4000-4500
series car says they had this roof. I don't know if I have a photo of one
here though.

The 7000 - 7649 series car, according to it's diagram, is reported as having
a Hutchins radial roof, except for 50 cars which were fitted with "S.R.E.
Co." (Standard Railway Equipment) - Murphy - roofs. Looks to me that he
Funaro & Camerlengo 1932 ARA C&O boxcar is a model of the Murphy roof car,
even though the photo on the box shows a C&O Hutchins roof car. The radial
version of this Hutchins design seems two have had two stiffening ridges per
panel. Sunshine released a version of these cars some years back with the
Hutchins roof. Also, the C&O bought 3 of the 5 prototype 1932 ARA cars
after testing . These were built with Murphy roofs. C&O numbered the cars
1900 - 1902, and later renumbered them 2800 -2802. The C&O diagram for
these cars reports them as having "S.R.E. Co." roofs.
Steve:

A shameless plug, but refer to the 1932 ARA box car book (www.speedwitch.com) for more info on these two types of roofs. The Hutchins roof on C&O 4000-4500 is actually a "Murphy" rectangular panel roof manufactured not by Standard Railway Equip. but by Chicago-Cleveland. For our purposes (HO scale), they are same and the differences are quite subtle anyway. These cars did NOT have the Hutchins Dry Lading roof of the 'teens and 20s. They just used the same name on them. The radial roof on the 1932 ARA cars is a Hutchins radial roof.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Detail of AAR 1937 boxcar - Murphy and Hutchins Roofs

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Manfred,
I'm not an expert on this but I can guess as to why,
It's easier during assembly to handle smaller panels.
Ease of panel replacement for repairs.
The bumps, crinkles raised panels, etc, were added to impart more
strength in the roof as a whole. Easier to do with smaller panels
again.
That's my thinking on the question
Pierre Oliver


--- In STMFC@..., "Manfred Lorenz" <germanfred55@y...>
wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

A dangerous generalization, Steve, as Standard Railway
Equipment used the term "Murphy" for all its roofs with
interlocking
elements, starting well before solid-steel roofs were introduced.
Sorry for interfering these interesting threads with a dull question.

Why did the manufacturers use small panels anyway? Why didn't they
simply cut a sheet of steel the length of the car roof and weld it
together? Why these individual panels with the accompanying troubles
of
making all those seams? Same for the sides?

Manfred


Re: Box car at "The Falls"

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 9/15/05 2:08:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
cepropst@... writes:

<< No photos, but it is one of the GN 'Glacier Green' with the standing
"happy" goat emblem rebuilts from the middle 50s. >>

Chet,

The Great Northern began rebuilding their extensive wood sheathed fleet in
July of 1959; these rebuilds were painted red and numbered into the 34000-34999
series. Subsequent rebuild programs were painted red as well.

The first rebuilds painted Glacier Green adorned with the caricature of
"Rocky" were renumbered into the 27000-27799 beginning in December of 1960. I have
a photo of 27086 stenciled 1-1960 proving only a small portion of the "Rocky"
cars would have rolled on rails during the time frame discussed on this list.
There is speculation that 27000 may have been the only car so painted in
1960.

Dr. Staffan Ehnbom has supplied outstanding coverage of the GN fleet within
his many contributions to the GN Historical Society and related publications.

Kindest Regards,

Guy Wilber
Earthquake Faults, Nevada


Re: Detail of AAR 1937 boxcar - Murphy and Hutchins Roofs

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

A dangerous generalization, Steve, as Standard Railway
Equipment used the term "Murphy" for all its roofs with interlocking
elements, starting well before solid-steel roofs were introduced.
Sorry for interfering these interesting threads with a dull question.

Why did the manufacturers use small panels anyway? Why didn't they
simply cut a sheet of steel the length of the car roof and weld it
together? Why these individual panels with the accompanying troubles of
making all those seams? Same for the sides?

Manfred


Re: ingoldsby cars

Richard Townsend
 

Try this site: <http://nn.railfan.net/Ingoldsby/gold3.htm>

Roger Parry <uncleroger@...> wrote:

I am not familiar with this type of car, what was it and what did it
look like???
On Sep 17, 2005, at 9:19 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:

I am interested. �My primary modeling interest is the Colorado &
Southern standard gauge, and they had these cars.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon



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Re: The future of RP and small Resin Manufacturers?

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

... if you mean eventually it will come to pass that we
everyday modeler types will be able to create masters... <<<

NO. That is not what I mean Brian. This thread began by talking
about compensation for making masters, and it arose that there
are pattern makers out there who can do custom work. The problem
with this is that the TRANSLATION from a modeler's head to a
pattern maker's head to a resin caster's head is going to be a
risky, error prone path.
Ahh, OK, I do see what you're saying now, I believe. Generally, I read
this list via daily Digests, and I do believe I missed the
compensation discussion at the thread's beginning.

Even now, though, the cost of using the .002" resolution system for
proof of concept is darn expensive. However, if a modeler is
well-to-do or intends to cast a number of copies to amortize costs of
a production run, it makes more sense.

I think others were saying this earlier, but I seemed to have gone off
in another direction. <g

Thanks for clarifying what you meant so that I could finally "get it."

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


---


Re: The future of RP and small Resin Manufacturers?

Tim O'Connor
 

... if you mean eventually it will come to pass that we
everyday modeler types will be able to create masters...
NO. That is not what I mean Brian. This thread began by talking
about compensation for making masters, and it arose that there
are pattern makers out there who can do custom work. The problem
with this is that the TRANSLATION from a modeler's head to a
pattern maker's head to a resin caster's head is going to be a
risky, error prone path. But IF the modeler can specify what he
wants with drawings and specs, and if the pattern maker can do
a set of CAD drawings from that and the modeler can see they are
good, and then the pattern maker can turn on his SL equipment to
produce the masters Voila! Then the last step is the casting...

This type of thing can be done now, by custom pattern makers, but
without the CAD drawings as verification and without the inherent
reliability of the SL process, for Joe Modeler commissioning the
custom patterns is risky not only in terms of sales, but it also
is risky in terms of technical success. So this RP/SL process is
a way of assuring technical success. But like I said I don't think
it alters the cost structure significantly. I think your investment
in time & equipment is safe for now, and I hope you go ahead with
your venture.

Tim O'Connor


Re: ingoldsby cars

Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
 

I am not familiar with this type of car, what was it and what did it
look like???

On Sep 17, 2005, at 9:19 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:

I am interested. My primary modeling interest is the Colorado &
Southern standard gauge, and they had these cars.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


eabracher@... wrote:

I am working up some HOn3 Ingoldsby car kits.   there were a few
standard
gauge railroads that had them also.   is there any interest in a
standard gauge
car kit?

eric/riograndemodels


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: Sunshine mini-kits

Michael Aufderheide
 

Mont,

I've only got two, but I'm young yet. Do you deal in futures?

Mike

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...> wrote:
Mike:

I got in on the Monon mini-kits and they are great. I'm sure we can
work out a purchase arrangement. How many children do you have and when
was the first one born?

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Mike Aufderheide
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine mini-kits

Tim,

I wrote the Lofton's about these and they don't have
any to sell by mail. But I'll ask at Naperville.
Anyone have a mini kit for the Monon they'd like to
sell?

Mike Aufderheide

--- timboconnor@... wrote:

I believe the ACF covered hopper mini-kits are still
available.
There were some on sale at Naperville last year.
Also still for
sale are AAR alternate-standard 2 bay offset
mini-kits for C&O,
NKP, NP and others, the AAR box car mini kits, and a
few others.



On Wednesday, September 14, 2005, at 03:36 PM,
Mike Aufderheide wrote:

Was this the mini-kit offered by Sunshine a
while ago?
Mike,
I'm guessing about 5 years ago, but it could have
been even longer.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]





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Re: BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Dan Stainton
 

Look your Broadway Cars over carefully, both of mine had broken
ladders and one had chipped/peeling paint on the
ladder

Dan
Stainton



--- In STMFC@..., blindog@m... wrote:
Now that Broadway has released their GACX 53'6" express reefer, why
should we care? Is it a different prototype than the Walthers model?
They look almost identical. The Broadway version costs a couple
dollars more.

Scott C


Re: Detail of AAR 1937 boxcar - Murphy and Hutchins Roofs

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Busch wrote:
I normally think of Murphy roofs as the type with raised rectangular panels,
as supplied with the Red Caboose / Intermountain / IMWX 1937 boxcars, for
example.
A dangerous generalization, Steve, as Standard Railway Equipment used the term "Murphy" for all its roofs with interlocking elements, starting well before solid-steel roofs were introduced. Within a particular era, it's not even safe, as SRE continued to sell different versions simultaneously. For confirmation, you can look at the Cycs for different periods.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: The future of RP and small Resin Manufacturers?

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Tim,

Is that supposed to make me feel better? lol.

Actually, going on instinct, I'm thinking RP will make a huge
difference, I just don't know how quickly and in what ways: Which
production methods existing today will it kill (if any)?

So often, "things" don't develop in ways that we predict. It'll be
interesting to see how this all shakes out, won't it?

rapid prototyping . . . makes "creating masters" more accessible to
those of us without all of the skills to do it. <

This kinda flies in the face of what Jim and/or Tom have said in this
thread, though, doesn't it? IIRC, they have pointed out that, as it is
now, a steep learning curve is involved along the entire route to
production with this process. Equally troublesome, the few companies
that possess this process at the moment likely will want little to do
with we small customer / manufacturer types with shallow pockets.

But, if you mean eventually it will come to pass that we everyday
modeler types will be able to create masters, certainly, you're right
on the mark. (Listen to me talk, as if I have a clue how this whole
thing will look in the future. Just talking in order to attempt to
understand it on some elementary level, I guess.)

casting is where the rubber meets the road! <
Unless and until the RP process is so powerful and efficient that we
can feed a prepared design into a machine and 20 seconds later it pops
out a complete replica (like ordering dinner aboard the Star Ship
Enterprise, push a button and your food appears, "magically").

Maybe RP will move from a "slow" process good enough only to produce
masters for casting to a point where it is the manufacturing process
itself, obsoleting resin casting alltogether.

Just one point of view, and no doubt it's way off course. <g

-Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


---


Re: ingoldsby cars

Richard Townsend
 

I am interested. My primary modeling interest is the Colorado & Southern standard gauge, and they had these cars.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


eabracher@... wrote:

I am working up some HOn3 Ingoldsby car kits. � there were a few standard
gauge railroads that had them also. � is there any interest in a standard gauge
car kit?

eric/riograndemodels





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Detail of AAR 1937 boxcar - Murphy and Hutchins Roofs

S. Busch <SCSBusch@...>
 

Some further thoughts about the Murphy and Hutchins roofs on C&O cars -

Now I've had my work cut out for me!

I normally think of Murphy roofs as the type with raised rectangular panels, as supplied with the Red Caboose / Intermountain / IMWX 1937 boxcars, for example.

The Hutchins Dry Lading roofs were rather flat paneled, with a thin raised stiffening ridge running across the the center, parallel to the seams. Accurail supplies a real nice one with it's 40' outside braced single sheet box car. Ted Culotta used one of these on his Illinois Central auto car article in the Nov. 2004 RMC. Anyway, the C&O Diagram for the 4000-4500 series car says they had this roof. I don't know if I have a photo of one here though.

The 7000 - 7649 series car, according to it's diagram, is reported as having a Hutchins radial roof, except for 50 cars which were fitted with "S.R.E. Co." (Standard Railway Equipment) - Murphy - roofs. Looks to me that he Funaro & Camerlengo 1932 ARA C&O boxcar is a model of the Murphy roof car, even though the photo on the box shows a C&O Hutchins roof car. The radial version of this Hutchins design seems two have had two stiffening ridges per panel. Sunshine released a version of these cars some years back with the Hutchins roof. Also, the C&O bought 3 of the 5 prototype 1932 ARA cars after testing . These were built with Murphy roofs. C&O numbered the cars 1900 - 1902, and later renumbered them 2800 -2802. The C&O diagram for these cars reports them as having "S.R.E. Co." roofs.

Steve Busch
Duncan, Sc


Re: B&LE freight car roster

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

In 1941 the M&StL received 25 exB&LE box cars. The M&StL numbered them
50300-5348 even. Can you tell me what these cars looked like??
Thanks,
Clark Propst---


Re: NW & predecessor freight cars

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Steve,

The P&WV book I have drops this info into the N&W data base. Renumbering & relettering began in Oct. 1964. The best source for this would be a 1965 ORER, or the Society web-site at:
http://www.nwhs.org ; they have been very helpful in the past.

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: stephenr37
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:51 PM
Subject: [STMFC] NW & predecessor freight cars


Would anyone happen to have information about the any of the following
freight car series? I'm primarily interested in any rebuildings,
renumberings, dispositions to NW or other roads, and confirming some
number series or builder information I'm lacking. If cars made it to
NW, I'm trying to determine NW class and NW number/renumber series.

ACY 400-419 Greenville 6/51 covered hoppers
ACY 570-584 Greenville 7/59 covered hoppers ex NAHX 31556-31610
ACY 850-963 Greenville 2/41 boxcars ex B&LE 91501-91800/81501-81800
ACY 6102-6133 Greenville 6/52 ore cars ex B&LE 20001-20500
ACY 7000-7199 ? /19 hoppers ex CRR?
(ACY)NAHX 31556-31580 Greenville 7/59 covered hoppers, leased to ACY
ITC 2600-2624 Greenville 3/53
NKP 4 Clark design air dump cars 7/26? (Greenville or Differential
built?)

NW 18 Clark design air dump cars ?/27? (Greenville or Differential
built?)

NW 25 Greenville 53.6" flatcars built about 1943 on O.O. 383
NW 52300-52349 Greenville 4/40? B4 class boxcars
NW 52400-52449 Greenville 10/40 B4 class boxcars
P&WV 1925-1949 Greenville 5/48? covered hoppers
P&WV 6700-6798 Greenville ?/60? hoppers
W&LE 78000-78999 Greenville 11-12/47 hoppers

Stephen Mayberry




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Re: The future of RP and small Resin Manufacturers?

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian,

I do not think rapid prototyping dramatically changes the
cost of resin kit production. Instead, I imagine it makes
"creating masters" more accessible to those of us without
all of the skills to do it. Or it makes it possible to
create more masters, faster, for people who really know
what they're doing. Technology often amounts to a trade
off of time for money. Besides, good masters is only half
the battle -- casting is where the rubber meets the road!

Tim O.


NW & predecessor freight cars

stephenr37 <gmayberry@...>
 

Would anyone happen to have information about the any of the following
freight car series? I'm primarily interested in any rebuildings,
renumberings, dispositions to NW or other roads, and confirming some
number series or builder information I'm lacking. If cars made it to
NW, I'm trying to determine NW class and NW number/renumber series.

ACY 400-419 Greenville 6/51 covered hoppers
ACY 570-584 Greenville 7/59 covered hoppers ex NAHX 31556-31610
ACY 850-963 Greenville 2/41 boxcars ex B&LE 91501-91800/81501-81800
ACY 6102-6133 Greenville 6/52 ore cars ex B&LE 20001-20500
ACY 7000-7199 ? /19 hoppers ex CRR?
(ACY)NAHX 31556-31580 Greenville 7/59 covered hoppers, leased to ACY
ITC 2600-2624 Greenville 3/53
NKP 4 Clark design air dump cars 7/26? (Greenville or Differential
built?)

NW 18 Clark design air dump cars ?/27? (Greenville or Differential
built?)

NW 25 Greenville 53.6" flatcars built about 1943 on O.O. 383
NW 52300-52349 Greenville 4/40? B4 class boxcars
NW 52400-52449 Greenville 10/40 B4 class boxcars
P&WV 1925-1949 Greenville 5/48? covered hoppers
P&WV 6700-6798 Greenville ?/60? hoppers
W&LE 78000-78999 Greenville 11-12/47 hoppers

Stephen Mayberry

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