Date   

Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Richard Townsend
 

Don't foregt the MM kitbash article (by Mark Federsen?)on a two-dome tank from the Tichy kit. I am trying to work up my courage to attempt the kitbash, but rivet-wrapper or inter-end-insert would be a real boon. The domes are available (one in every kit!) seperately, too.
--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

Bruce, I like this idea! Maybe it's a good idea for a Sunshine
mini-kit. If there was a rivet-wrapper for the IM body and a
couple of dome castings, would that resemble any prototype?

Tim O.


Multi-dome tanks for the IM and P2K AC&F frames (type 27 and 21 �
respectively). �Again, it seems unlikely that we will see a variety �
of multidome tanks, yet we now have two relatively accurate frames �
that could accept after-market resin tanks.



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shake the box plastic freight car suggestion

ed_mines
 

How about a double sheathed box car with reverse Murphy ends, like the
ones L&N, NKP, NYC, RDG & DL&W had?

With CAD/CAM it could be offered with different roofs (ouside metal,
plank, rebuilt), different underframes (including truss rod),
different lengths etc.

These cars are shorter than USRA double sheathed box cars which is
good for the average modeler who wants the stair step look in a
freight train.

Ed Mines


C&O 53'6" Gond

Jason Hill
 

Hello all,
I'm not up on all of my east coast paint schemes. I picked up a
pair of C&0 53'6" gonds from P2K. The tare date is 1961 and the
factory paint scheme looks a little too new for my 1946-1956 modeling
era. The car shows a 6-44 build date. The car's black with white
(scotch-lite) strips on the outside of the car at the floor level,
"C&O" above the reporting marks, as well as the "C and O for Progress"
logo with smoke above the word progress. Am I correct in suspecting
that this car is too new for me? Are the decals for C&O or for that
matter B&O or some other good industrial belt road that I could finish
these cars for? The models were had at a good price. I know I can do
other things with these time-savers (bash into SP 52' gonds) but was
hoping to diversify my fleet with more steel-belt and other industrial
traffic cars from the east.

Building the SP and ATSF fleet for Tehachapi Pass!
Jason Hill


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard, your points are quite valid, but I wonder if you are missing the
most important point -- we started this topic by talking about cars that
can be custom-made or are good limited run candidates. So the fact that
a Type 27 multicompartment car might have been rare (or a rebuild) only
makes it MORE attractive as a candidate for this treatment. An ideal
mini-kit makes maximum use of existing kit parts (like frame and tank
and dome). So the question remains, do you know of any actual examples
of multidome 8k (or 10k) Type 27 tank cars? Personally I think the
conversions with different dome sizes are just way cool and really stand
out in a crowd.

And frankly, I'd love to see some 3 and 4 compartment wine tanks too! :-)

Tim O'Connor

The problem here is that almost all purpose-built multi-compartment
tank cars were of 6K gals. nominal capacity; larger ones were extremely
rare except where an 8K or 10K single compartment tank had been
converted to two or three compartments (and these are easy to identify
because their original center domes were always larger than the domes
for the end compartments). So there were only a few odd-ball
prototypes for multiple-compartment models that could use the IM or P2K
underframes. However, how about 8K and 10K insulated ICC-103/-104
tanks for the IM underframe? Many of these cars were built both for
SHPX and private owners.


Re: B&O Repaint Stenciling

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 22, 2005, at 8:22 AM, Bill Welch wrote:

I will nudge Ted to consider this little detail decal. It makes the
most sense to combine this with other desireable little decal details
of a similar nature. More ideas would be appreciated form others I am
sure.
Here are a couple of other suggestions.

The triangle repaint symbol (lower left corner of car sides) applied by the New York Central system

The unusually shaped repack stencils (with curved top line) used by the Missouri Pacific, Western Pacific, and probably some other RRs.

The Union Pacific's similarly shaped built/rebuilt stencils.

Few, if any, decal sets include any of these.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Multi-Dome Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 22, 2005, at 8:14 AM, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

Multi-dome tanks for the IM and P2K AC&F frames (type 27 and 21
respectively).
Bruce, I like this idea! Maybe it's a good idea for a Sunshine
mini-kit. If there was a rivet-wrapper for the IM body and a
couple of dome castings, would that resemble any prototype?
Hardly any prototypes, Tim – see my response to Bruce's post.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 22, 2005, at 6:40 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:


On Sep 22, 2005, at 7:58 AM, Marcelo Lordeiro wrote:

Thanks Tim,
Let's think on some cars and choose one(tank car ?).
Which one?
Regards
Marcelo Lordeiro
Marcelo,

Think about the following:

AC&F type 11 - This was offered by Sunset in brass as the PRR TM8,
then in multiple bogus schemes. The Sunset model is "coarse" by
today's standards. This was an extremely common tank car for its
time, but may be unlikely to get produced in styrene because it is a
little too "old". WWII era and after modelers won't need very many
to add to their fleets, but they will need one or two. Folks
modeling 1911 to the Great Depression will need lots more.
An excellent idea! Thousands of these cars were built, most of them 8K
and 10K gal. ARA IIs, and both 8k and 10K tanks were mounted on the
same underframes. A number of petroleum shippers (e.g., Associated,
Mid-Continent D-X) owned them in large numbers. Also, they lasted
longer than you think, Bruce. I have many photos of them in still in
revenue service in the '50s and '60s. Several RRs also bought them for
fuel and water service (though the Pennsy's were acquired second-hand).

UTLX type X - The type X is the MDC old time tank car, but the MDC
car needs a completely new frame. Once could simply offer the frame
and detail parts, and let the modeler buy the MDC model for the
tank! This is another "old time" tank car that saw service past the
middle of the 20th century.
Another very good idea, especially since the MDC tank wouldn't be bad
if mounted on a correct underframe. Exclusively UTL (except for a few
that were in RR M-W service after having been written off and
repaired), so no eye-catching P/L schemes, but like the AC&F Type 11s
many of them remained in service into the '60s – I have a ca. 1965
photo of one coupled to a high-cube box car.

UTLX type V - The type V is the "Van Dyke" frameless tank car. These
are offered by Precision Scale in an injection molded kit, but the
model is really of a narrow gauge car that had been converted from a
standard gauge car. You can convert these kits BACK to their std
gauge appearance, but there might be room here for a true std gauge
car kit. Again, this is an "old time" car that saw service well past
the midpoint of the 20th century.
I'd regard the Type V as a less attractive prototype, both because the
Precision Scale kit is quite good (and does come in a standard gauge
version) and because these cars were all retired before mid-'53 owing
to the difficulty of applying AB air brakes to cars without
underframes.

Multi-dome tanks for the IM and P2K AC&F frames (type 27 and 21
respectively). Again, it seems unlikely that we will see a variety
of multidome tanks, yet we now have two relatively accurate frames
that could accept after-market resin tanks.
The problem here is that almost all purpose-built multi-compartment
tank cars were of 6K gals. nominal capacity; larger ones were extremely
rare except where an 8K or 10K single compartment tank had been
converted to two or three compartments (and these are easy to identify
because their original center domes were always larger than the domes
for the end compartments). So there were only a few odd-ball
prototypes for multiple-compartment models that could use the IM or P2K
underframes. However, how about 8K and 10K insulated ICC-103/-104
tanks for the IM underframe? Many of these cars were built both for
SHPX and private owners.

Finally, a completely off the wall suggestion...

Fireless Cooker (aka "Thermos Bottle")
I'll say it's off the wall. Bruce, you gotta go back to beer and lay
off that Alabama white lightning.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:34 AM, Jon Miller wrote:

The type V is the "Van Dyke" frameless tank car. These
are offered by Precision Scale in an injection molded kit, but the
model is really of a narrow gauge car that had been converted from a
standard gauge car<
These are actually sold in both gauges. I have two of the standard
gauge kits. The quality of the tank molding was not the greatest but it
works. Most of the fitting are brass.
Sorry if I wasn't clear - yes the kit is sold as both std and narrow gauge. HOWEVER, the PSC std gauge kit is actually the narrow gauge car kit ginned up for sale as std gauge. Because these cars were modified when converted to narrow gauge, the kit requires a number of modifications to model the appearance of the std gauge type V. These changes were detailed by Richard Hendrickson in Railroad Model Craftsman, December 1995 page 66 ("Modeling Union Tank Line's 6500 gallon "Van Dyke" tank car")

but the MDC car needs a completely new frame<
Athearn (via Horizon) is the new owner. I wonder if they might do so
work on this car
It is not currently listed on the Athearn web site, but I found multiple web listings for these cars for sale and they abound at swap meets.

IM and P2K AC&F frames --sic--two relatively accurate frames<
I'm not impressed with the IM frame and thought there had been many
comments on it? We were supposed to get a new one in resin but it never
happened.
Yes, the IM frame is definitely the poorer of the two, missing several important details like the side sills. That and the relative abundance of type 21 cars vs type 27 cars would lead me to advocate doing type 21 variants first. That is helped by the availability and price of P2K tank car kits as well <VBG>

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: new products

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

Bruce, I like this idea! Maybe it's a good idea for a Sunshine
mini-kit. If there was a rivet-wrapper for the IM body and a
couple of dome castings, would that resemble any prototype?

Tim O.
Tim,

I see two flaws with that approach. First is that is that a new wrapper will add size to the tank. This then creates issue of correct diameter, and fixing the ends with new ones. Once could consider wrapping various sizes of PVC tubing instead, to get the correct final diameter, and then providing resin ends. Second is that wrapping the tank was arguably one of the most difficult steps in Martin's old AC&F insulated tank car kit, and so it might be good to avoid that if possible. It would seem easier overall to just provide the cast tank with add on domes, ends and details. Perhaps Walthers/Lifelike or IM could be persuaded to run "kits" without the tanks for this? OTOH, I am still picking up P2K tank car kits for $7.50 each so why should I worry about tossing the tanks? <VBG>

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0





Multi-dome tanks for the IM and P2K AC&F frames (type 27 and 21
respectively). Again, it seems unlikely that we will see a variety
of multidome tanks, yet we now have two relatively accurate frames
that could accept after-market resin tanks.


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 22, 2005, at 6:27 AM, Robert Bogie wrote:

Richard,

Do you know if someone is working on a plastic model of the NYC's boxcars
based on the USRA all steel box car, ie like NYC Lot 439-B? Considering how
many were built, this would have to be as good a choice as an X-29 or M-53.
I know that it's being seriously considered, but AFAIK no one is cutting tooling as yet.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

The type V is the "Van Dyke" frameless tank car. These
are offered by Precision Scale in an injection molded kit, but the
model is really of a narrow gauge car that had been converted from a
standard gauge car<
These are actually sold in both gauges. I have two of the standard
gauge kits. The quality of the tank molding was not the greatest but it
works. Most of the fitting are brass.

but the MDC
car needs a completely new frame<
Athearn (via Horizon) is the new owner. I wonder if they might do so
work on this car?

IM and P2K AC&F frames --sic--two relatively accurate frames<
I'm not impressed with the IM frame and thought there had been many
comments on it? We were supposed to get a new one in resin but it never
happened.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Beer Tank Cars? (was Wine car ops)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Armand Premo wrote:
"Now if beer had been transported in tank cars, I might be
interested."

Larry Jackman replied:
"It is is it not? Coors ships a lot of beer to the east coast for
bottling. How does it go there?"

What's in those CORX tank cars isn't beer - at least not while it's
being shipped. It's wort, which essentially is non-fermented beer
(NOT "beer concentrate" as stated in the following website):
http://www.trainweb.org/midrail/Photos/MISCPhotos/MISCequipstock2.html

FWIW, here's more on the beer making process:
http://www.travelportland.com/media/mbmedkit/mb_brew_process.html

I'm not sure if this was done during our era of interest. There were
far more independent local breweries in existence during the 1950s
than there are today, and Anheuser-Busch was just builing/acquiring
its system of satellite breweries during that decade (Newark 1951,
Los Angeles 1954, Tampa 1959). Until the 1970s, Coors was very much
a regional beer - remember the whole premise of "Smokey and the
Bandit" was to rush a trailer load of Coors back east.


Ben Hom


Re: B&O stenciling and decal nitpicking

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Thanks for responding Bob

I will nudge Ted to consider this little detail decal. It makes the
most sense to combine this with other desireable little decal details
of a similar nature. More ideas would be appreciated form others I am
sure.

Bill

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@i...> wrote:
Bill Welch wrote:
I am in the process of decaling Sunshine's B&O's M27f and M15k
and I
notice that near the handgrabs on the left end of each side there
is is
a small rectangular stencil

This is not included in the decals of either. Does a decal exit
for
this stencil somehwere in another set?
Bill,

I believe the answer is no, something for the B&OHS to consider. It
is
a stencil with the painting information: such as the manufacturer
use,
the date, etc. My understanding is that Chris Barkan did the
masters
for Sunshine and in our prior discussions he was unaware of this
stencil.

I possibly have the raw material to make decals as I have copied
this
information from probably over 100 cars, mostly box cars, from my
field observations made in the 1960s. I have examples for cars last
painted in 1955 and 1956. I also have the sheet that explains the
information in the stencil. Unfortunately, many photographs have too
little resolution to resolve this small lettering.

Just last evening I was looking at some Xerox copies of M-55 boxcars
someone kindly sent me and it looks like there may be a start date
just after WWI when the B&O actually began to apply this stencil.

If there are well resolved photos may be Ted Culotta can perform his
magic and create decals from the photos. It would be a nice
addition
for lettering B&O cars for the 1950s, unfortunately beyond the
period
modeled by both Ted and Chris.

Always more question than answers ...

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob Witt

P.S. Remember the Class M-15K only ran until ~1955. After 1955 all
these wagon-top boxcars received new AAR style underframes and
received new sub-classes. This happened all at once so there is
very
little overlap where both types of cars ran concurrently.


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce, I like this idea! Maybe it's a good idea for a Sunshine
mini-kit. If there was a rivet-wrapper for the IM body and a
couple of dome castings, would that resemble any prototype?

Tim O.

Multi-dome tanks for the IM and P2K AC&F frames (type 27 and 21
respectively). Again, it seems unlikely that we will see a variety
of multidome tanks, yet we now have two relatively accurate frames
that could accept after-market resin tanks.


Re: Wine car ops

Miller,Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

If you believe their current TV ad, they ship their beer in a special
stainless steel train with a bullet-nose steam engine leaking
refrigerant from every car!


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
ljack70117@adelphia.net
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:36 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine car ops


On Sep 22, 2005, at 7:47 AM, armand wrote:

Now if beer had been transported in tank cars,I might be
interested.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gilbert" <tgilbert@sunlink.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine car ops
It is is it not? Coors ships a lot of beer to the east coast for
bottling. How does it go there? Although you use the term Beer very
very loosely when you use it with the name Coors.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
 

On Sep 22, 2005, at 7:58 AM, Marcelo Lordeiro wrote:

Thanks Tim,
Let's think on some cars and choose one(tank car ?).
Which one?
Regards
Marcelo Lordeiro
Marcelo,

Think about the following:

AC&F type 11 - This was offered by Sunset in brass as the PRR TM8, then in multiple bogus schemes. The Sunset model is "coarse" by today's standards. This was an extremely common tank car for its time, but may be unlikely to get produced in styrene because it is a little too "old". WWII era and after modelers won't need very many to add to their fleets, but they will need one or two. Folks modeling 1911 to the Great Depression will need lots more.

UTLX type X - The type X is the MDC old time tank car, but the MDC car needs a completely new frame. Once could simply offer the frame and detail parts, and let the modeler buy the MDC model for the tank! This is another "old time" tank car that saw service past the middle of the 20th century.

UTLX type V - The type V is the "Van Dyke" frameless tank car. These are offered by Precision Scale in an injection molded kit, but the model is really of a narrow gauge car that had been converted from a standard gauge car. You can convert these kits BACK to their std gauge appearance, but there might be room here for a true std gauge car kit. Again, this is an "old time" car that saw service well past the midpoint of the 20th century.

Multi-dome tanks for the IM and P2K AC&F frames (type 27 and 21 respectively). Again, it seems unlikely that we will see a variety of multidome tanks, yet we now have two relatively accurate frames that could accept after-market resin tanks.

Finally, a completely off the wall suggestion...

Fireless Cooker (aka "Thermos Bottle") - these were steam locomotives that were charged with pressurized steam from an external source and could run for 4-6 hours before needing more steam. Typically they were used in areas where an open flame (ie a firebox) might be dangerous. The most common configuration appears to be 0-6-0. Fireless steam engines were in service up to 1980 (or so)!!


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Wine car ops

ljack70117@...
 

On Sep 22, 2005, at 7:47 AM, armand wrote:

Now if beer had been transported in tank cars,I might be
interested.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gilbert" <tgilbert@sunlink.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine car ops
It is is it not? Coors ships a lot of beer to the east coast for bottling. How does it go there? Although you use the term Beer very very loosely when you use it with the name Coors.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Robert Bogie <rbogie@...>
 

Richard,

Do you know if someone is working on a plastic model of the NYC's boxcars
based on the USRA all steel box car, ie like NYC Lot 439-B? Considering how
many were built, this would have to be as good a choice as an X-29 or M-53.

Regards,

Robert Bogie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)


On Sep 21, 2005, at 10:18 AM, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:
Let me predict that -someone- is working on a B&O Wagontop in
plastic. How could they not be? :-) The question remains, will anyone
ever wake up and give us the AAR alternate standard offet hopper?
Yes to both.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Miller,Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

I have been kit bashing 4k tank cars for a while. So now that I have
what I need, its time for a manufacturer to make magnificent models in
plastic for $1.95

See
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/millera/ebax3064.html

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Marcelo Lordeiro
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:58 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express
reefers)

Thanks Tim,
Let's think on some cars and choose one(tank car ?).
Which one?
Regards
Marcelo Lordeiro
----- Original Message -----


Re: Wine car ops

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Larry has already mentioned one leaking in a yard; how do you think they got
that way?

Seriously, I was using a camera at the time.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: "Miller,Andrew S." <asmiller@mitre.org>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:53:35 -0400
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Conversation: [STMFC] Wine car ops
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Wine car ops

Brian,

Is shooting a 40' Pfaudler milk car like shooting an intruder, or like
shooting the bull ? ;-)


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Brian Paul Ehni
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:44 PM
To: STMFC List
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine car ops

Not entirely useless. Chateau Martin owned at least one Pfaudler steel
40'
car, which I shot in Pine Bluff, AK. #CMWX 1008

Sadly, the date falls outside the range of this discussion group (Jan
75).
--

Brian Ehni

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