Date   

Re: NKP Car Movements

Michael Aufderheide
 

Yes please!

Mike

--- william darnaby <WDarnaby@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

I have in my temporary possession serveral daily
lists of loaded cars moved by the NKP from the Swift
& Co bean in Frankfort, IN. The lists include
reporting marks, load...usually bean meal or
oil...and routing. The most complete data I have is
from 1948, 49 and 50. The wide variety of boxcar
reporting marks is interesting and gives some
insight to the ratio of home vs foreign cars. If
you guys wish I can post some of the data, say a
couple of weeks worth from one of the years above,
if you are interested.

Bill Darnaby

[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]


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Re: ACF 1932 Covered Hopper

Larry Kline
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:
A builder's photo of the ACFX 20000 is shown in the George Elwood web
site. [snip] The 2,050 cu. ft. car looks very similar to the common
1,958 cu. ft. AC&F 70-ton covered hopper built from the late 1930s to
early 1950s.

ACFX 20000 was described in the June 30 1934 issue of Railway Age, (Vol
96, No 26) pp 985-986. The builders photo is in the 1937 Car Builders
Cyc. The URL for the ACF builders photos on the Fallen Flags site is:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/acf-h.html

Ed and list,

The ATSF 182000-182009 series also had a capacity of 2,050 cu. ft. Were
these cars identical to ACFX 20000?

Why did the capacity change to 1,958 cu. ft. with the later ACF covered
hoppers starting with C&O 400-424 and NKP 99700-99724? The IL and IW
are the same. Were the hoppers and-or the slope sheets different?

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: NKP Car Movements

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Bill,

I'm modeling the NKP's Peoria division circa 1949, and would love any
information from the dailies for that year.

Regards,

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
william darnaby
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:52 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] NKP Car Movements

I have in my temporary possession serveral daily lists of loaded cars moved
by the NKP from the Swift & Co bean in Frankfort, IN. The lists include
reporting marks, load...usually bean meal or oil...and routing. The most
complete data I have is from 1948, 49 and 50. The wide variety of boxcar
reporting marks is interesting and gives some insight to the ratio of home
vs foreign cars. If you guys wish I can post some of the data, say a couple
of weeks worth from one of the years above, if you are interested.

Bill Darnaby


Re: Pointless Hobby Item of the Day

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Or check grammar, for that matter. "casted load"! LOL!
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:57:03 -0000
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Pointless Hobby Item of the Day

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6000773191

Your choice of what's more humorous - the FRED on a car retired years
before FREDs were used, or the fact that the seller can't count.


Ben Hom


Pointless Hobby Item of the Day

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6000773191

Your choice of what's more humorous - the FRED on a car retired years
before FREDs were used, or the fact that the seller can't count.


Ben Hom


Re: 1950's Prototypes

Justin Kahn
 

Um, Bill, I don't think you mean the 1950's (perhaps the 1960's or later?). Back then Bowser offered the UP Challenger, a NYC K-11 and what I believe was a re-working of the old Knapp 4-8-2. PENN LINE offered several standard PRR steam classes (almost all using the same boiler casting) by the mid-1950's as well as their Whitcomb diesel and a few freight cars (including an early piggyback/TOFC kit that I thought looked pretty good at the time). John English/HObbyline offered a reasonably complete line of cars, USRA 2-8-2 and 4-6-2, a PRR A5 (and parts for an H9, although I don't think it was ever available as a complete kit), and a diesel switcher. Later, everything started to run together, as what is now Bowser/English picked up inactive lines.
Looking even further back, especially in O scale, the PRR K4 was offered by several manufacturers early on, but several also offered the NYC Hudson, but apart from the PRR B6, I can't think of many other PRR locomotive kits. Although perhaps the majority of rolling stock was based on eastern prototypes (because pretty much before 1950 that is where the largest concentration of model railroaders were), there was still quite a bit available for those who favored other parts of the country. And I really can't find an excessive amount of either locomotives or rolling stock lettered for PRR. There may be something to your theory, but the recollections I have of the period don't afford much support for it.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.


Why the large following and modeling of the PRR vs NYC? Let's go back
to the 1950s and pick up a copy of MR to learn what was new and
available. There we see full page adverts from Bowser with a model line
of enough PRR steam locomotives to fill any respectable roundhouse. And
other manufacturers followed this lead by offering freight cars and
cabooses in more or less PRR prototype to strain those model drawbars.
Penn Line is just one of them that comes to mind. Almost every other
railroad of any size did not have this ready supply of motive power for
steam era freight trains (and those trains of long boxcars with
windows). My theory is that having such a resource would likely build
an interest in the Standard Railroad of the World far larger and more
quickly than a railroad where there were fewer models available.

And there was a good and plentiful source of information in the many
books focusing on the PRR that were published during this period and
the years following.

It is just a theory... the resources were there and the modelers
followed the path... err, track... in front of them. Thus PRR gained
the larger following than NYC.

-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
On Sep 23, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Is it your impression that those RRs that are developing and/or
keeping
large followings are also those that have more RR-specific products
offered to them?

Is this a chicken and egg thing, or an egg and chicken thing?
_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


Test

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Test. Please ignore, my apologies for bandwidth.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: ACF 1932 Covered Hopper

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, September 25, 2005, at 02:10 PM, Jerry Dziedzic wrote:

There's a mention of ACFX 20000, a prototype built in 1932.  The few
dimensions given compare favorably with both the 26'3" IL
"drop-frame"
cars which DL&W and L&NE operated in large numbers.  The dimensions
also compare with the more common 29'3" IL straight sill cars.

Do we know anything more about ACFX 20000?
Jerry,
The car was built as an experimental design in 9-32, AC&F lot no. 1274.
It was later sold in circa 1938-39 to Dewey Portland Cement. The order
date was 12/19/38. A builder's photo of the ACFX 20000 is shown in the
George Elwood web site. I've not found a builder's photo of the car as
delivered to Dewey Portland Cement but believe the number was 201. The
2,050 cu. ft. car looks very similar to the common 1,958 cu. ft. AC&F
70-ton covered hopper built from the late 1930s to early 1950s. Hope
this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


NKP Car Movements

Bill Darnaby
 

I have in my temporary possession serveral daily lists of loaded cars moved by the NKP from the Swift & Co bean in Frankfort, IN. The lists include reporting marks, load...usually bean meal or oil...and routing. The most complete data I have is from 1948, 49 and 50. The wide variety of boxcar reporting marks is interesting and gives some insight to the ratio of home vs foreign cars. If you guys wish I can post some of the data, say a couple of weeks worth from one of the years above, if you are interested.

Bill Darnaby


5th Aveue Car Shops Double Door ribside auto box cars

sctry <jgreedy@...>
 

Just received the first custom decorated 5th Avenue Car Shops double
door Ribside Car. These were for sale at this weekends joint CB&Q/IC
meet at Dubuque, Iowa. Cars look very nice and are available in 4
different numbers with reweigh station and dates for the mid-50's.

The tooling for these cars is by Ribside Cars.

See the files section on the MILWmodelers YahooGroups web site for mail
order forms.

John Greedy


Railway Age Statistics

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 9/25/2005 2:46:24 AM Central Standard Time,
STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:

Every month (I think), Railway Age published a table of statistics for just
about every
railroad that one can think of. Included in the tables were the number of
home and foreign
freight cars on line. While the tables don't break the data down further to
car type, it is
interesting to see the total numbers as well as the ratio between the two.
Ed and I have a
near complete collection of RA for the period of interest. Would these
numbers be of
interest to the subscribers? We could publish a summary in RP CYC by year
(we'll pick the
month). Besides, Ed really likes working with EXCEL!!!!

Pat, Please, please do! This would be very interesting. BTW, I know how
much Ed like working with Excel. Once he gets going, he's almost as good as I
am!

Jerry Michels


Re: Wine Cars

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Thanks for the info! I don't have the Clover House catalog,
and the web site only gives a price list by number, not title.
As far as the SLRX car in the photo, it probably arrived
inbound with a shipment of that stuff from St. Louis, but my bet is
that it was outbound with a load of Schlitz, Pabst, or Blatz. While
there was one beer and liquor distributor on line, Captiol Liquor,
which received inbound loads (As stated in MRHS Publication #5, The
Milwaukee Road's Beer Line, "Next the crew contiued to Capitol
Liquor... and a tank that had been emptied of its load of alcohol
pulled out." [for the wine tank car string!]), that customer was north
of Humboldt Yard. The breweries loaded their outbound product south of
the yard. The "Roller Coaster" was also south of Humboldt yard, and an
empty pulled from Capitol Liquor wouldn't move south of the yard if it
was going home empty. The connection from the branch to the mainline
was north of the yard.
Anyway, I find it a nice ironic twist that a car owned by a
subsidiary of A-B would be pressed into service running a competitor's
product!

Thanks again for the information!
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
On Sep 23, 2005, at 2:31 PM, buchwaldfam wrote:

Does anyone make 50's era decals or transfers for SLRX cars?
Yes. Clover House Set 9266-04.

Or does Sunshine make a kit?
Yes. Kit #24.28.

One 4000 series car shows up in a photo of
the Milwaukee's "Roller Coaster Track" from early 50's. Considering
that Schlitz and AB were competitors, either the Milwaukee brewery was
catering their business parties with "Brand X", or they were making
good use of a homeward bound empty, even if it DID represent a
competitor.
Not everyone in Milwaukee drank the local beer. A-B shipped beer to
Milwaukee in SLRX cars, just as to other parts of the country, so the
car in the photo was probably either delivering Budweiser to a
Milwaukee distributor or en route home empty after having done so.

Richard Hendrickson


ACF 1932 Covered Hopper

Jerry Dziedzic
 

I found a new reference on ACF covered hopper design. It's a speech
given by the ACF Chief Mechanical Engineer to the New York Traffic
Club
in 1940. He describes recent freight car design developments,
including ACF's covered hopper.

There's a mention of ACFX 20000, a prototype built in 1932. The few
dimensions given compare favorably with both the 26'3" IL
"drop-frame"
cars which DL&W and L&NE operated in large numbers. The dimensions
also compare with the more common 29'3" IL straight sill cars.

Do we know anything more about ACFX 20000?


Re: :Wine car ops

ljack70117@...
 

On Sep 25, 2005, at 3:19 PM, William Keene wrote:

Larry,

Gridley, Kansas is 56 route miles west-southwest of Ottawa, Kansas (MP
58.13 from Kansas City on the Santa Fe's Third District, Eastern
Lines). The actual branch line begins at a turnout off the Third
District at MP62.15 at a location known as B.N.JCT. The line ran more
or less in southwesterly direction over rolling terrain through
Williamsburg (16.6 miles from Ottawa), Agricola (22.8 miles), Waverly
(27.0 miles), Sharpe (37.3 miles), Burlington (45.6 miles) and
continued on to the end of the line at Gridley (56.0 miles) as a ridge
runner.

Burlington is located roughly straight north of Yates Center (about 20
miles or so on US75). And well east of Salina. So let's say, to be more
accurate, that Gridley is located in east-central Kansas. Sorry for any
confusion.

Scheduled service on the Gridley branch during the steam era was a
mixed train powered by a motor car from the time that the EMC
gas-electrics began arriving on the Santa Fe. The M.190 even did a
stint on the line. There are photos of steam subbing for the motorcar
when necessary. And I would guess that there was an occasional grain or
stock extra in season. This has not been confirmed from records yet.

Again, sorry for any confusion. Hope that the above helps clear that up.

-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 24, 2005, at 4:32 PM, ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:



On Sep 24, 2005, at 1:37 PM, William Keene wrote:

Yes I must get my map out as I had it confused with some thing else. Sorry

Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
Shin: A device for finding furniture in the dark.


Re: :Wine car ops

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

William Keene wrote:
Gridley, Kansas is 56 route miles west-southwest of Ottawa, Kansas (MP
58.13 from Kansas City on the Santa Fe's Third District, Eastern
Lines). . . The line ran more
or less in southwesterly direction over rolling terrain through
Williamsburg (16.6 miles from Ottawa), Agricola (22.8 miles), Waverly
(27.0 miles), Sharpe (37.3 miles), Burlington (45.6 miles) and
continued on to the end of the line at Gridley (56.0 miles) as a ridge
runner.
Larry Jackman said:
A couple corrections. Gridley Ks is not in central Kansas. It is in 
the Northwest part of Kansas. Salina Ks is almost dead center. The 
Plainville branch went from Salina to Plainville then on to Gridley 
and from there turned south  down to Oakley Ks.
My atlas shows Gridley exactly where Bill Keene says it is, and
no sign of anything named Gridley where Larry Jackman says it is.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Bulk Grape Loads

Andreas Kühnpast <Andreas.Kuehnpast@...>
 

Justin Kahn wrote:

Dear Andreas
Several possibilities occur to me: I would think bulk shipments of grapes
for winemaking probably peaked during the 1920's, owing both to a decline in
significant numbers after that of Italians and other ethnic groups who
emigrated directly from areas where home winemaking was common (the highest
numbers of immigrants from eastern and southern Europe entered during the
decades immediately before WWI, after which immigration restrictions began
to seriously limit their entry). Second and third generation ethnics would
probably have been much less likely to produce home-made wine.
Second, this trade flourished during Prohibition, when heads of households
were permitted by law to make a certain quantity (I forget the numbers now)
for domestic use; commercial production of wine was essential illegal from
1919 through 1933, when Franklin Roosevelt took office and encouraged repeal
of a bad (because unworkable) Constitutional amendment.
While home wine-making surely continued after, say, 1940, it was so
labor-intensive that few other than traditionalists or hobbyists found it
worthwhile. And I think beer traffic was always considerably greater than
wine (Americans generally always being more beer-drinkers than oenophiles),
although someone else would have to dig out statistics to prove or disprove
that.
It is interesting that you discovered a firm bottling wine under their house
label (I think it safe to say that this represented the lower-end of the
market) in Vermont; however great their trade in a housebrand (and I think
it was probably not all that great), as either Tony or Richard suggested, a
real wine car contains a LOT of wine.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.
Jace,

thanks for your explanations, they help me get the complete picture! Discussions
like this are what make this group so wonderful!

I have contacted the Vermont wine bottler, who once had a Barre & Chelsea side
track serving his warehouse (a fact that gives him a big place in my heart...
;-)) today and hope I will get some answers to my list of questions. This is not
so unlikely as this is a third-generation family-run operation and they usually
have the knowledge to answer "historical" questions and are eager to talkabout
their company's history.

If I interpret their website right, they moved from quantity to quality after
WW2. I hope they did this not too soon to allow some tank cars to make their
appearance...

Andreas Kuehnpast


Re: :Wine car ops

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Larry,

Gridley, Kansas is 56 route miles west-southwest of Ottawa, Kansas (MP
58.13 from Kansas City on the Santa Fe's Third District, Eastern
Lines). The actual branch line begins at a turnout off the Third
District at MP62.15 at a location known as B.N.JCT. The line ran more
or less in southwesterly direction over rolling terrain through
Williamsburg (16.6 miles from Ottawa), Agricola (22.8 miles), Waverly
(27.0 miles), Sharpe (37.3 miles), Burlington (45.6 miles) and
continued on to the end of the line at Gridley (56.0 miles) as a ridge
runner.

Burlington is located roughly straight north of Yates Center (about 20
miles or so on US75). And well east of Salina. So let's say, to be more
accurate, that Gridley is located in east-central Kansas. Sorry for any
confusion.

Scheduled service on the Gridley branch during the steam era was a
mixed train powered by a motor car from the time that the EMC
gas-electrics began arriving on the Santa Fe. The M.190 even did a
stint on the line. There are photos of steam subbing for the motorcar
when necessary. And I would guess that there was an occasional grain or
stock extra in season. This has not been confirmed from records yet.

Again, sorry for any confusion. Hope that the above helps clear that up.

-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Sep 24, 2005, at 4:32 PM, ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:


On Sep 24, 2005, at 1:37 PM, William Keene wrote:

> Andy, Larry,
>
> Quite an imagination, there Andy. And Larry, you are correct.
Gridley
> is at the end of a dirt ballast, weed reinforced, branchline in the
> middle of Kansas. While there was a MoP line just west of town, I do
> not think that there was an interchange track (I am not even sure
when
> this line was  taken up. Could have been prior to the 1953 date
being
> modeled). If the car did manage to get to Gridley, best explanation
is
> that it is very well misdirected and truly lost.
>
> Westerfield, Sunshine, and IM have done a good job of providing 
> most of
> the rolling stock for populating the layout. No wine cars required, 
> but
> it would still be nice to have one for the collection.
>
> -- Bill Keene
> Irvine, CA
>
> On Sep 23, 2005, at 6:18 AM, ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:
>
>

A couple corrections. Gridley Ks is not in central Kansas. It is in 
the Northwest part of Kansas. Salina Ks is almost dead center. The 
Plainville branch went from Salina to Plainville then on to Gridley 
and from there turned south  down to Oakley Ks. This branch was 400 
class 2-8-0 territory. Over 200 miles. Is any of it still in service 
today?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few


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Another O scale resin kit

Jim King <jimking3@...>
 

During the last posting re: the upcoming O SR 41' flat and composite gon
kits, I listed future kits at the bottom. I forgot to mention that the
N&W G1 low side gon will also be coming out next year. I have all of
the info needed to make this car, thanks to the N&WHS' Archives. This
should make a good companion to the SR low side gon that'll be out ahead
of it.

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.
http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com


Re: Wine car ops

Richard Townsend
 

Forgot to mention that the vehicles in the picture appear to be from the twenties, so it is likely that the photo is from the early post-prohibition days.

richtownsend@netscape.net wrote:

I have a book about the Santa Clara Valley wine industry that contains a photo of four single-dome tank cars being loaded with Mirassou wine in San Jose. �One is GATX 3827. �The others do not have legible reporting marks, but one is a high-walkway car. �It looks like they trucked the aging casks to the siding, and pumped wine from the casks to the tank cars.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

Roger Parry <uncleroger@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Would Wine cars of any number of domes be appropriate for the 1930's ?
On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:26 PM, Mr Charles burns wrote:

Hello Tim ,All
�There was some discussion of winecars on this list a
while back, and one post {gatx417?}had a Bob Morris
photo of Fresno with many wine cars in view. So for
the central valley in the 50s-60s at least,wine cars
were not an oddity. This is enough of an excuse for me
to build a 6 dome wine car for my N scale 64'
Coastline layout.
Charlie Burns

--- Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@sunlink.net> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:


Wine tank cars would certainly not have been seen
on branch lines in
places like Kansas or Georgia. �But there is
abundant photographic
evidence of them in the trains of the major
transcontinental carriers
that served California such as the Santa Fe, Union
Pacific/C&NW, and
Southern Pacific/Rock Island/T&NO/SSW, sometimes
several of them at one
time, en route to widely scattered destinations.
I wonder sometimes whether the "abundant
photographic evidence" is more
related to the oddity of a car than to quantity.

Tim Gilbert

__________________________________________________________________
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--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


__________________________________________________________________
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Re: Wine car ops

Richard Townsend
 

I have a book about the Santa Clara Valley wine industry that contains a photo of four single-dome tank cars being loaded with Mirassou wine in San Jose. One is GATX 3827. The others do not have legible reporting marks, but one is a high-walkway car. It looks like they trucked the aging casks to the siding, and pumped wine from the casks to the tank cars.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

Roger Parry <uncleroger@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Would Wine cars of any number of domes be appropriate for the 1930's ?
On Sep 22, 2005, at 10:26 PM, Mr Charles burns wrote:

Hello Tim ,All
�There was some discussion of winecars on this list a
while back, and one post {gatx417?}had a Bob Morris
photo of Fresno with many wine cars in view. So for
the central valley in the 50s-60s at least,wine cars
were not an oddity. This is enough of an excuse for me
to build a 6 dome wine car for my N scale 64'
Coastline layout.
Charlie Burns

--- Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@sunlink.net> wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:


Wine tank cars would certainly not have been seen
on branch lines in
places like Kansas or Georgia. �But there is
abundant photographic
evidence of them in the trains of the major
transcontinental carriers
that served California such as the Santa Fe, Union
Pacific/C&NW, and
Southern Pacific/Rock Island/T&NO/SSW, sometimes
several of them at one
time, en route to widely scattered destinations.
I wonder sometimes whether the "abundant
photographic evidence" is more
related to the oddity of a car than to quantity.

Tim Gilbert

__________________________________________________________________
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp

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