Date   

alternate standard offset twin hopper, was PRR N6B

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
asked - "P.S. So, what are the real reasons no one is doing the
alternate standard offset twin hopper?"

I'd like to see it too; it was used by Erie, my home road, but I think
it's too close to Athearn's and Atlas's cars.

I wonder how many average model railroaders replace their old models
when a new and improved version comes along? Obviously Walthers is
betting that enought will with these cabooses.

Some of the layouts featured in the various model magazines still run
older cars like Athearn reefers, ribbed hoppers and 40 ft. box cars
even though more accurate equivalents are produced.

Ed


Re: Scale Couplers: Distances between cars; Prototype vs. Model

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Reviewing my post on this subject, I did not make clear that the measured distance between the faces of the draft gear boxes of coupled cars (which is what I measured) is NOT the same as the measured distances between end sills, or car ends. As one can readily observe, the draft gear faces project beyond the end sills differently on different cars, depending upon individual design and construction details of the underframes, and the placement of bolsters.

So, if the draft gear box faces are *correctly placed* on your models, simply measuring the distance between the faces will give you some idea where you might be as related to the distance expected with the prototype with Type E couplers ("30"). If smaller industrial or earlier couplers are modeled, then the expected distance would seem to be about 24".

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: PRR N6B; was injection molding tooling costs in China

ljack70117@...
 

On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:45 AM, Eric wrote:

Elden Gatwood wrote:

I came across a write-up for a low pressure limited run injection molded kit. The kit was 168
pieces, of which three were resin and 54 were photoetched, the rest being injection molded. It was
listed at $45.00.

Eric Petersson
OK what is the product and who is the manufacture?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end to end, someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them.


Re: 1949 NKP Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Bill Darnaby
 

Hmmm...cabotage. A new word for me. I had hoped my comments would provoke <g> a good explaination and I got it. Thanks. I figured the loading of Canadian cars was probably a rules violation but I wasn't sure.

Bill Darnaby


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Montford Switzer wrote:

Responding to Tim Gilbert:

Mont,

I am unclear of what you mean as a "steady source of loads." Is this an
industry or equivalent? By "regular moves" do you mean specific cars
(e.g. ABC Boxcar #123), or the industry, or do you mean regular
shipments of goods in any suitable car available? If the answer above is

specific cars, then what kind of car - boxcar, gon, hopper, etc., and
what road name and car number?

Tim, As Bill continues to share this info I think we will continue to
see the same TYPES of cars moving from the same shipper to same
consignee transporting the same product - soy bean meal. As I plan my
operating scenario I will want to handle the same types of cars in that
service on a regular basis. I'm only modeling the portion of the moves
that were over the MONON.
Mont,

We are in agreement regarding type of cars. But what is the rhyme and reason behind the variety of car owners? Bill's data provides insight into some of the rhyme or reason of behind this variety of owners of boxcars and tank cars.

Each boxcar could carry a variety of commodities while tank cars were restricted to only a few, if not just one commodity. Hence, empty boxcars could be easily reloaded while empty tank cars generally had to return to their original point of loading before they could be reloaded. This difference is reflected in boxcars' loaded car miles being about 76% of total car miles in 1948-49 vs. the tank cars' loaded car mile percentage being only 50%.

Tank Cars were generally leased from private owners or owned by industries; thus, they were not free rollers - indeed, they earned mileage paid by the carrier to the owner instead of the per diem paid to the boxcar owner.

Because boxcars were free rollers because they were capable of showing up on any road different from the owner with a load originated on still another road- in Bill's latest sheet, CB&Q #26046 was loaded on the NKP with bean meal for AK Zinn, and routed NKP-Michigan City-NYC(MC)-Battle Creek. Another example was NP #26144 which was loaded with bean mail for the EW Bailey Co. in Montpelier VT and routed NKP-Toledo-DTSL-Detroit-GTW-Port Huron-CN-St. Albans VT-CV-Montpelier. (Incidentally, this would have been a "legal" routing of a Canadian car because of the transit through Ontario and Quebec.)

The distribution of ownership of Boxcars from the Swift Processing Plant resembles somewhat the distribution percentages of boxcar owners in wheel reports that I have parsed from the SOU's Washington Division in the Fall of 1946 and the UP's Wyoming Division in the Fall of 1947. They do not correlate perfectly with each other. But for modelers not having the advantage of a wheel report, or cars pulled from Frankfort, a good starting point in selecting what the owners of foreign boxcars should be on a layout would be based on the percentage of boxcars a specific railroad owned of the national fleet.


There is nothing wrong about modeling "specific" cars which may have
appeared once or sporadically over time on the prototype's line. For
instance, if modeling a line like UP's Sherman Hill, any of the 720,000
different boxcars in the US could have appeared on that line. Most
people's budget including Mike Brock's cannot afford 720,000 different
boxcars. So a selective compression of the model boxcar fleet has to be
done whereby ABC boxcar #123 represents itself plus, at another time ABC

#456, or, perhaps, the neighboring road's DEF #789 if ABC and DEF do not

own enough boxcars in the national boxcar fleet to warrant a separate
model for each road.

Tim, Agreed. Specific cars would be a bonus. One could model a car
based on Bill's records and plop it on the layout at the right place
(interchange with NKP at Frankfort) and take it off after it empties out
and is reloaded toward it home road. Example, NKP interchanges ATSF
1234 to MONON at Frankfort for delivery to a point north toward Chicago.
When empty the car would be loaded for or forwarded empty to Chicago and
into staging. The car might be allowed to wander onto the layout at
some future time representing the entire series of car for that RR.

I like to build freight car models so I won't mind building one that is
not used all the time. Yes, it will have to represent other cars in
that same series that might should up anywhere else on the parts of the
MONON that I am modeling.

I certainly want to make sure my freight trains have all of the known
types of cars carrying the regular moves whether it be the daily
shipment of bean meal, RCA TV cabinets, coke, coal, etc. It is the
single car shipments that will be harder to deal with and may end up
getting cars at random for lack of more specific info.
I guess that you will not be modeling CIL #1 at least between June 1947 and June 1948 because it was used to originate only one load, and terminate none on the MONON. Seriously though, gauging how many and what cars were loaded with merchandise or used team tracks is the bane of a prototypical modeler. What bails you in terms of ownership of boxcars is the starting point of percentage of boxcars owned by a road of the national boxcar fleet.


Bill's data just solved another mystery as what was moving in MONON
freight trains to I can more accurately model them.
I would think that Bill's data has helped you with boxcars and tank cars carrying bean oil; the data has not shown the distribution of owners among hoppers, gons, reefers or tank cars carrying different commodities than bean meal.

Tim Gilbert


Re: 1949 NKP Movements . . .

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
It is highly unlikely that violations would go unnoticed, thanks
to the DAILY accounting of cars for per diem purposes. Perhaps there
was some kind of quid pro quo to balance the "violations" or perhaps
those cars actually did have the duty paid on them and we just don't
have those records. Knowing how carefully railroads kept records (and
were required to do so by the ICC) I'm sure that real violations of
the law were the exception and not the rule.
Full agreement, and well stated. I only meant that there evidently WERE exceptions, whether as violations or from some arrangement we haven't documented, and therefore that SOME Canadian cars did get reloaded for U.S. destinations. As Tim Gilbert said, it's abundantly obvious that this was rare, from statistics alone.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR F22 or F23 flat cars

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Gene,

There is nothing in my library that records an F class built with a plow. My records do not go back further than 1919, so it may be, although I don't think it happened.
What may be the case is a car bought, or appropriated from the PRR, and rebuilt with a plow assembly in Iowa. My reasoning is that all of the old pix I have studied show a "V" type, high curved top plow attached to the pilot of a 4-4-0, or a 4-6-0.
Others are more well versed in MW equip. than I, so there might be a slim chance someone can provide proof positive.
My money is on not likely.

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: "bierglaeser" <bierglaeser@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: [STMFC] PRR F22 or F23 flat cars


Please see eBay listing Iowa Terminal RR Snow Plow Motor #60 DUPLICATE
Slide-NR Item number: 6568698378.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Iowa-Terminal-RR-Snow-Plow-Motor-60-DUPLICATE-Slide-
NR_W0QQitemZ6568698378QQcategoryZ71011QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've had an opportunity to take a close look at the short flat car and
some parts, notably the stake pockets, have 'PRR' cast into them.

Could this be a former PRR class F22 or F23 flat car? If yes, does
anyone know how such an item would have made its way to Mason City,
Iowa?
Did the PRR convert any F22 or F23 flats to snow plows?
TIA.
Gene Green







Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: other Dry Ice cars

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Allen - Can you email me a photo? - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Rueter
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] other Dry Ice cars


The SP&S converted five 10000 series box cars (10019,10078,10128,10155,10218) to dry ice service.
(10078,10218) were assigned to Gas Ice, Klickitat Sprs WA in 1949.

Allen Rueter


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Responding to Tim Gilbert:

Mont,

I am unclear of what you mean as a "steady source of loads." Is this an
industry or equivalent? By "regular moves" do you mean specific cars
(e.g. ABC Boxcar #123), or the industry, or do you mean regular
shipments of goods in any suitable car available? If the answer above is

specific cars, then what kind of car - boxcar, gon, hopper, etc., and
what road name and car number?

Tim, As Bill continues to share this info I think we will continue to
see the same TYPES of cars moving from the same shipper to same
consignee transporting the same product - soy bean meal. As I plan my
operating scenario I will want to handle the same types of cars in that
service on a regular basis. I'm only modeling the portion of the moves
that were over the MONON.

There is nothing wrong about modeling "specific" cars which may have
appeared once or sporadically over time on the prototype's line. For
instance, if modeling a line like UP's Sherman Hill, any of the 720,000
different boxcars in the US could have appeared on that line. Most
people's budget including Mike Brock's cannot afford 720,000 different
boxcars. So a selective compression of the model boxcar fleet has to be
done whereby ABC boxcar #123 represents itself plus, at another time ABC

#456, or, perhaps, the neighboring road's DEF #789 if ABC and DEF do not

own enough boxcars in the national boxcar fleet to warrant a separate
model for each road.

Tim, Agreed. Specific cars would be a bonus. One could model a car
based on Bill's records and plop it on the layout at the right place
(interchange with NKP at Frankfort) and take it off after it empties out
and is reloaded toward it home road. Example, NKP interchanges ATSF
1234 to MONON at Frankfort for delivery to a point north toward Chicago.
When empty the car would be loaded for or forwarded empty to Chicago and
into staging. The car might be allowed to wander onto the layout at
some future time representing the entire series of car for that RR.

I like to build freight car models so I won't mind building one that is
not used all the time. Yes, it will have to represent other cars in
that same series that might should up anywhere else on the parts of the
MONON that I am modeling.

I certainly want to make sure my freight trains have all of the known
types of cars carrying the regular moves whether it be the daily
shipment of bean meal, RCA TV cabinets, coke, coal, etc. It is the
single car shipments that will be harder to deal with and may end up
getting cars at random for lack of more specific info.

Bill's data just solved another mystery as what was moving in MONON
freight trains to I can more accurately model them.

Mont Switzer







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: 1949 NKP Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Tim O'Connor
 

CP #223472
This was a 10 panel 1937 "AAR" design box car with 5/5 ends (resin
part from Dan Kirlin/Sylvan) and "flat panel" roof (also Kirlin/Sylvan).
From series 221000-223949. Not sure of builder or date. AJAX brakes.
Jim Sands posted an excellent photo of one of these on his web site.

CN #522526
This was a 10 panel AAR style box car built by Canadian Car & Foundry
in 1948 (series 522500-523999) with 4/4 IDE-2 ends (rolling pin with
short top rib), 8-rung ladders and rectangular panel roof. This is a
match for the Intermountain "Canadian" box cars.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Tim,

I think it's fun to identify Santa Fe boxcars, and it might help someone who wanted to include some Santa Fe cars on a Midwestern layout.

So long,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
Phone: 262-796-8776, ex. 461
Fax: 262-796-1142
www.modelrailroader.com


Re: 1949 NKP Movements . . .

Tim O'Connor
 

It is highly unlikely that violations would go unnoticed, thanks
to the DAILY accounting of cars for per diem purposes. Perhaps there
was some kind of quid pro quo to balance the "violations" or perhaps
those cars actually did have the duty paid on them and we just don't
have those records. Knowing how carefully railroads kept records (and
were required to do so by the ICC) I'm sure that real violations of
the law were the exception and not the rule.

Doug Rhodes wrote:
So I'd be cautious about generalizing from this data to conclude that
the cabotage laws were "urban legend" :-)
I don't think that's what was alleged, only that the "rule" that no
Canadian mark cars ever got reloaded for U.S. destinations appears a
bit legend-like. We're trying to reproduce what actually happened, not
what the law said should happen. <can we "g" on this?>

Tony Thompson


Re: Couplers ...

Jim Betz
 

There are several aspects of couplers and most of these have
been discussed in the previous posts:

Appearance, coupling distance, reliability, size, size of draft
gear box, whether or not they have a magnetic pin, how strong
they are, how well the train stays together during operation, etc.

If my memory serves me correctly in the following of this thread
no one has mentioned the topic of "interoperability". If you are
building a contest/shelf model you don't care. If you have a layout
where all the freight cars are "controlled" and you -can- all have
the same couplers on them then you don't care. If you don't do
any ... or very much ... switching then you don't care as much. But
if you are talking about a layout that has lots of different guys
bringing their equipment to operate then you care - a LOT.
On layouts where lots of people are contributing the current
"standard" coupler is the Kadee #5. Simply because that is what is
on most of the cars in most of the train cases. Not necessarily what
we might like to admit but it is "the truth".

So my point is that if a new coupler is going to be accepted ...
rapidly ... it needs to operate well with the #5.

And, regrettably, none of the "better" couplers we have out now
operates as well with the #5 as they should. That's probably due to
a design aspect of the #5 (that little 'lip' on the very end of the
face?). But the bottom line is that if a new coupler doesn't play
well with the existing #5 then its acceptance is going to be slower
than it would if it did - considerably.

BTW - the #58s and #78s don't seem to couple and uncouple with
each other as well as the number 5's do either! They're "acceptable"
but they aren't as reliable as the #5's when using an uncoupling
ramp -and- they take quite a bit longer to uncouple using a pick.

- Jim ... dreaming of an HO car with operational cut levers
that 'interfaces' with the #5 ... I've always been
a -big- dreamer ... but I still have a large supply
of #5s and continue to install them on all but a
few cars.


Re: PRR F22 or F23 flat cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Oct 11, 2005, at 8:01 AM, bierglaeser wrote:

Please see eBay listing Iowa Terminal RR Snow Plow Motor #60 DUPLICATE
Slide-NR Item number: 6568698378.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Iowa-Terminal-RR-Snow-Plow-Motor-60-DUPLICATE- Slide-
NR_W0QQitemZ6568698378QQcategoryZ71011QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've had an opportunity to take a close look at the short flat car and
some parts, notably the stake pockets, have 'PRR' cast into them.

Could this be a former PRR class F22 or F23 flat car? If yes, does
anyone know how such an item would have made its way to Mason City,
Iowa?
Did the PRR convert any F22 or F23 flats to snow plows?
TIA.
Gene Green
Gene,

Yes, this appears to be an F22 or F23. It has been discussed several times, and is the subject of an unproven legend that it was "stolen" from the PRR. See message 27798 for the story.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Montford Switzer wrote:

Responding to:

What can be learned from these NKP List of movements which can be used
on your or anybody else's layout of the 1945-1955 era?

Tim Gilbert

Tim:

I learned the specifics of a steady source of loads that moved in both
directions out of Frankfort, IN on the MONON's Indianapolis branch
including the portion that I am modeling. It appears that some of the
moves were regular in nature. The data also allows me to pursue
modeling specific cars the appeared in this service and well as justify
others that "hopefully" appeared covering this work. So it works for me
and should do as well for anyone who's RR appears in the car routing
info.
Mont,

I am unclear of what you mean as a "steady source of loads." Is this an industry or equivalent? By "regular moves" do you mean specific cars (e.g. ABC Boxcar #123), or the industry, or do you mean regular shipments of goods in any suitable car available? If the answer above is specific cars, then what kind of car - boxcar, gon, hopper, etc., and what road name and car number?

There is nothing wrong about modeling "specific" cars which may have appeared once or sporadically over time on the prototype's line. For instance, if modeling a line like UP's Sherman Hill, any of the 720,000 different boxcars in the US could have appeared on that line. Most people's budget including Mike Brock's cannot afford 720,000 different boxcars. So a selective compression of the model boxcar fleet has to be done whereby ABC boxcar #123 represents itself plus, at another time ABC #456, or, perhaps, the neighboring road's DEF #789 if ABC and DEF do not own enough boxcars in the national boxcar fleet to warrant a separate model for each road.

Tim Gilbert


PRR F22 or F23 flat cars

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Please see eBay listing Iowa Terminal RR Snow Plow Motor #60 DUPLICATE
Slide-NR Item number: 6568698378.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Iowa-Terminal-RR-Snow-Plow-Motor-60-DUPLICATE-Slide-
NR_W0QQitemZ6568698378QQcategoryZ71011QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've had an opportunity to take a close look at the short flat car and
some parts, notably the stake pockets, have 'PRR' cast into them.

Could this be a former PRR class F22 or F23 flat car? If yes, does
anyone know how such an item would have made its way to Mason City,
Iowa?
Did the PRR convert any F22 or F23 flats to snow plows?
TIA.
Gene Green


Re: 1949 NKP Car Movements

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Details on the PRR cars from Bill Darnaby's posting on Saturday:

DATE CAR LOAD ROUTING
1-28-49 PRR 573904 bean meal Allied Mills Inc, Fort Wayne,
xJefferson NKP
Class X29, built 1924-25.
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/prrx29main.html
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X29

1-28-49 PRR 517945 bean meal Allied Mills Inc, Fort Wayne,
xJefferson NKP
Class X25
http://www.westerfield.biz/cg510001.htm
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X25


Ben Hom


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Responding to:

What can be learned from these NKP List of movements which can be used
on your or anybody else's layout of the 1945-1955 era?

Tim Gilbert

Tim:

I learned the specifics of a steady source of loads that moved in both
directions out of Frankfort, IN on the MONON's Indianapolis branch
including the portion that I am modeling. It appears that some of the
moves were regular in nature. The data also allows me to pursue
modeling specific cars the appeared in this service and well as justify
others that "hopefully" appeared covering this work. So it works for me
and should do as well for anyone who's RR appears in the car routing
info.

Mont Switzer


Re: 1949 NKP Movements

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Oct 10, 2005, at 6:38 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:
(snip)

Three SHPX tank cars were consigned to Lever Brothers in Hammond IN.
Another four tank cars consigned to Lever's Edgewater NJ operation were
leased from NATX or AESX (a NATX-reporting mark). On 6/11/1948, there
was a GATX tank car consigned to Lever Brothers in Edgewater NJ. It
looks like Lever leased tank cars on the short term - whether the lease
was per trip, per month, or of some other duration I do not know.
North American did, indeed, operate the AESX tank car fleet, but the
cars with those reporting marks were owned by, and assigned to the
service of, corn oil manufacturer A. E. Staley. It's certainly
possible that North American assigned Staley cars to other shippers,
but I think it's relatively unlikely.
Richard,

But it did happen in the first quarter of 1949 when these AESX "Staley"
tank cars carried loads between Swift-Frankfort to Lever
Brothers-Edgewater NJ. Now, maybe Staley, Swift and Lever and a possible
unknown fourth part did some kind of trade which necessitated the Staley
cars. I can only report what was listed.


Two of the other three tank cars were not billed; - one, owned by AESX;
and the other, a tank car with "ATX" marks. The problem with ATX is
that
reporting mark was not included in the April 1949 ORER.
Or in any other late '40s/early '50s ORERs. That was probably a
clerical error in recording either GATX or NATX reporting marks.
Agreed.


The last of the 21 tank cars was an UTLX Empty. UTLX only leased cars
to
the oil companies and independent refiners in 1949. It probably carried
fuel or lubricants for Swift, and was being returned empty to Madison
IL.
Not entirely true. Petroleum shippers certainly provided most of UTL's
business in that period, but UTL had some cars that were leased to
shippers of acids, chemicals, and vegetable oils. Still, Tim's
speculation about this particular car is probably correct.
"Some" probably was like being like the odds of the San Francisco 49ers
going to the Super Bowl this year.

Tim Gilbert


Richard Hendrickson


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Re: 1949 NKP Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

william darnaby wrote:

Tim,

Thanks again for the analysis. It keeps me interested in releasing the
data. The thing that surprised me were the 2 Canadian cars that were loaded
and sent on their way. I had always heard that Canadian cars had to be
returned to Canada either with a load or without. So much for that urban
legend...
Bill,

Thanks for the kudo, and if you keep releasing more data, I will put all that data on a spreadsheet, cross reference the cars with the 4/1949 ORER, and do a bunch of summaries including geographic distribution of boxcars, consignees and other things now undetermined which might pop out at me. I can post the spreadsheet to the STMFPH Files so others can play (sort) with it to find out other things which interest them.

Regarding the two Canadian cars, CP #223472 which was loaded with bean meal and consigned to Gwinneville IN on the B&O via Indianapolis, and CN #522526 which was loaded with meal on 6/9/1948 for the Van Patten Co. of Allen MI via the PRR-Michigan Central. My 4/49 ORER does not distinguish between "American" cars on the Canadian roads so I have no idea of whether CP #223472 was American or Canadian; because CN's American cars were marked GTW or CV, I assume CN #522526 was Canadian.

I would argue that the "Canadian" urban legend was valid most of the time. If it was not valid, the number of Canadian Boxcars recorded as loads out of Swift-Frankfort would have been 9 or 10 instead of the two you have listed so far.

Meanwhile, thank you very much for sharing this information with us, Tim Gilbert

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