Date   

Re: The Good Old Days

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Justin Kahn wrote:
As for replacement working leaf springs, have you looked in the PSC
catalogue? Years ago Kemtron made them from copper and they were (as I
recall) also full-elliptical as contrasted with the stamped steel
semi-elliptical Silver Streaks (not that modelers back then weren't happy to
have Silver Streak kits and trucks--at least I was).
That's a very particular copper alloy, beryllium copper, a very strong and stiff material used for non-ferrous springs (plain copper would be, bluntly, awful). Terrific stuff when cold worked, but hard to form into shapes. The Kemtron parts were excellent.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Sergent Couplers

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "wmcclark1980" <walterclark@e...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

William, only one problem: If your magnet is moved away from the
ball (upwards) then the effect of the magnetic field is diminished as
the inverse square of the distance. To work, your uncoupling lever
would have to move a magnet DOWN closer to the top of the coupler
so that the ball would rise as the magnetic field got stronger.

Just wait for the Barger coupler. (Hopefully not too many years
hence.)
It will have a real pin, just like the prototype. At least, the 1/32
scale
version had one!

Tim O.


I've been thinking about trying to make real, functioning top
operated
coupler release bars to use with the Sergent couplers. I looked at
the size of the pieces and think it can be done, just by someone
with
better eyes and steadier hands than I have. Anyway, the idea is to
use a small piece of those super-strong rare-earth magnets at the
point above the coupler, so moving the down bent end of the coupler
release bar up would lift the magnet, thus lifting the little ball
inside the coupler.
Tim,

I knew it was too good to be true, and I'm glad you explained it so I
can understand before I did something really crazy like actually
trying to make it work. That would have been frustrating, to say the
least.

Walter M. Clark
Tim,

I've thought more about this idea, while it may very well seem that
I'm trying to bring a rightfully dead idea back to life, PLUS, I admit
I've never seen a Sergent coupler,except in photos, the following
thought crossed my mind (which, some of my friends, as well as others,
would say is the shortest trip in history). Instead of using a small
piece of magnet on the release rod, drill out the top of the coupler
to provide access to the location of the ball. Substitute a vertical
piece of wire the thickness of the ball (plus or minus, it would take
some experimentation to get it right) and use the vertical wire in
place of the magnetic ball. Lift the release rod, the vertical wire
pulls up, allowing the coupler to open. When the release rod is
lowered the wire would do exactly what the ball does, locking the
coupler closed. You'd have to provide a limiting stop to keep from
pulling the wire all the way out of the coupler, but that wouldn't be
too hard, I think. Also, and this is an improvement of my first idea,
you could drill from below and use something of the same mechanism for
bottom actuated couplers. Now, if you or anyone else has a reason (or
more than one, I'm easy) why this won't work, fire away. My familial
tremor will prevent me trying this so I'll end with what several of my
college mathematics professors would say, "The proof is left to the
student as an exercise."

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: PRR F22 or F23 flat cars

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Gene and list,

It might be quite legal for a short line like the Mason City and Clear Lake (the original name of the Iowa Traction RR) to acquire a PRR flat car by wrecking it. If a railroad has an accident with another's car, it can either fix it or pay its owner the net liquidation value. If the car had quite a few years on it, it was no doubt cheaper to pay the NLV to the PRR than repair it and return it to owner.

Since it was now legally the property of the MC&CL, it could do what it wanted with the car, including make it into a snowplow. I expect this is exactly what happened.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred in Vt." <pennsy@sover.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR F22 or F23 flat cars


Gene,

There is nothing in my library that records an F class built with a
plow. My records do not go back further than 1919, so it may be, although I
don't think it happened.
What may be the case is a car bought, or appropriated from the
PRR, and rebuilt with a plow assembly in Iowa. My reasoning is that all of
the old pix I have studied show a "V" type, high curved top plow attached to
the pilot of a 4-4-0, or a 4-6-0.
Others are more well versed in MW equip. than I, so there might be
a slim chance someone can provide proof positive.
My money is on not likely.

Fred Freitas
----- Original Message -----
From: "bierglaeser" <bierglaeser@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: [STMFC] PRR F22 or F23 flat cars


Please see eBay listing Iowa Terminal RR Snow Plow Motor #60 DUPLICATE
Slide-NR Item number: 6568698378.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Iowa-Terminal-RR-Snow-Plow-Motor-60-DUPLICATE-Slide-
NR_W0QQitemZ6568698378QQcategoryZ71011QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've had an opportunity to take a close look at the short flat car and
some parts, notably the stake pockets, have 'PRR' cast into them.

Could this be a former PRR class F22 or F23 flat car? If yes, does
anyone know how such an item would have made its way to Mason City,
Iowa?
Did the PRR convert any F22 or F23 flats to snow plows?
TIA.
Gene Green







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Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

Andy Carlson
 

--- ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo.com> wrote:

If injection mold tooling is expensive to produce
did Terry Wegman
loose his shirt (or a lot of time) on the PFE -21
kits?
Ed,
Terry does not have that many shirts. BTW-His name is
spelled with two Ns....Wegmann.
-Andy Carlson


RP CYC 12

ed_mines
 

Just got my copy of RP CYC12 today. Nice book.

12 days from St. Louis to New York City area. That must be some sort
of a record.

I guess the staff gives me special treatment. My recollection is that
I bought every issue direct from RP CYC headquarters. I was a
subscriber too.

Ed


Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

Tim O'Connor
 

Jerry, no argument there! :-)

I forgot to mention that Terry has sold large quantities of his PFE
reefer kits to Intermountain, who sends them to China for assembly.
I suspect he's sold more that way than to the few hundred that he
has sold to us Naperville nutcases...

Tim O.

Terry has an expensive (read that ineffective) marketing dept.
BTW he has all the PFE -21 kits HE wants...
Jerry Glow


Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

jerryglow2
 

Terry has an expensive (read that ineffective) marketing dept.
BTW he has all the PFE -21 kits HE wants...

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Ed, Terry doesn't have to pay himself so this cuts down on his
overhead considerably.

A number of fine toolmakers have independently done injection molds
for us: Terry (R-40-18 and variants), Paul Lubliner (Genesis F
units),
Cannon (diesel detail parts), Jimmy Booth (numerous parts and
kits),
Dan Hall (box car doors). I'm sure there are many others. Long ago
and
far away an independent toolmaker had done wonderful tooling for a
PFE R-40-23 reefer but a vendor found out about it and rushed a kit
into production.... and that pretty much killed off that
toolmaker's biz
from what I heard. (I may have left out few salient details.)
Terry and
Jim do work for other vendors too, Paul sold his stuff to Athearn
(but
retained rights to continue with Highliners), and Cannon of course
has
become a minor cult (to which I belong). :-)

Tim O'Connor


If injection mold tooling is expensive to produce did Terry
Wegman
loose his shirt (or a lot of time) on the PFE -21 kits?
Ed Mines


Re: alternate standard offset twin hopper, was PRR N6B

armprem
 

Oops,I was thinking of an offset TRIPLE.Sorry 'bout that.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] alternate standard offset twin hopper, was PRR N6B


On Oct 11, 2005, at 10:19 AM, ed_mines wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
asked - "P.S. So, what are the real reasons no one is doing the
alternate standard offset twin hopper?"
Calm down, guys. Someone IS doing it. All things come to those who
wait....and wait....and wait.

Richard Hendrickson





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Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed, Terry doesn't have to pay himself so this cuts down on his
overhead considerably.

A number of fine toolmakers have independently done injection molds
for us: Terry (R-40-18 and variants), Paul Lubliner (Genesis F units),
Cannon (diesel detail parts), Jimmy Booth (numerous parts and kits),
Dan Hall (box car doors). I'm sure there are many others. Long ago and
far away an independent toolmaker had done wonderful tooling for a
PFE R-40-23 reefer but a vendor found out about it and rushed a kit
into production.... and that pretty much killed off that toolmaker's biz
from what I heard. (I may have left out few salient details.) Terry and
Jim do work for other vendors too, Paul sold his stuff to Athearn (but
retained rights to continue with Highliners), and Cannon of course has
become a minor cult (to which I belong). :-)

Tim O'Connor

If injection mold tooling is expensive to produce did Terry Wegman
loose his shirt (or a lot of time) on the PFE -21 kits?
Ed Mines


Re: alternate standard offset twin hopper, was PRR N6B

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 11, 2005, at 10:19 AM, ed_mines wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
asked - "P.S. So, what are the real reasons no one is doing the
alternate standard offset twin hopper?"
Calm down, guys. Someone IS doing it. All things come to those who wait....and wait....and wait.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Sprung Trucks

Justin Kahn
 

Following this thread through several messages, I have to say I have always preferred sprung trucks, even though most springing is too stiff to actually work in smaller scales (it is more likely to work in O scale, but I am not sure I want to weight freight cars enough to accomplish the effect). It may not be entirely rational, but I began model railroading when sprung trucks were a considerable improvement over the low-relief cast sideframes previous available, and as my sartorial tastes were established in college, never to change much since, so my preference has always been for sprung trucks wherever possible.
As for fabricating one's own springs from craft-store wire, isn't most of that florist wire, which tends to be quite soft? Most discussions of winding springs start with springy wire. Having said all that, I should pass on that San Juan, which makes the nicest mass-market (or what passes for mass-market in O scale, especially relative to brass) trucks, and in a reasonable selection (Andrews, archbar, T-section Bettendorf, regular "Bettendorf"/AAR, Vulcan) with full brake-gear detail, has gone from sprung trucks with working wire springs to a cast-plastic spring, which is much closer to the heavy-cross-section of the prototype, but compresses only enough to be inserted between the bolster and springplank and is there primarily for appearance rather than operation. San Juan also makes a scale-size, manually-operated coupler in engineering plastic, but Gene Deimling can tell you more about those. I use the standard Kadee O scale coupler, and the only modifications or variations Kadee has done to them since they were first introduced was a special short-shank application and a few years ago casting them in red and brown colors (for extra cost)--just too small a market to invest in R&D for, I suppose.

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.



That's fine - then just make them look like real springs! And thanks for the kind words!

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

Pat Wider!

When I cut my teeth in model railroading, American Flyer had chrome
plated
journal boxes on sheet steel sideframe trucks. The first time I ever
saw
real looking truck they were HO sprung Varneys or Athearns or something.
Heck, even those ugly looking Silver Streak trucks looked good.

So, there you go. I have never quite recovered, and still prefer real
springs.
Steve Busch
Duncan, SC

Yes, I vote for :

A USRA STYLE ANDREWS FREIGHT CAR TRUCK

- sprung, of course. Please, please, please ---
Why sprung? The toy cars aren't heavy enough to compress the springs
anyway and they
don't equalize so why bother? They also don't roll as well as they
could.
I hate HO
"sprung" trucks. And while I'm at it Mr. Kadee, please replace those
spider-web springs
with something more substantial. I hate looking through the spring
groups
and seeing the
daylight (layout lighting?) coming through. It's blinding. Jack
Spencer
rolls his own springs
out of heavier wire and they look great! Other people use brass loco
driver springs. In
days of old when knights were bold and Central Valley made trucks with
concentric
wheels, their truck springs looked better as well. Phosphor bronze I
think. Why can't Kadee
make a similar improvement to the appearance of their trucks?
Continuous
improvement -
that keeps companies in business.

Sorry but this a sore spot with me.

Pat Wider

Pat, I was at Michael's (a craft store) the other day and noticed
they have a wide selection of small gage wire on spools that may
be perfect for making non-functional replacement springs. I got
some for making baled-wire loads for gondolas. They stock it in
the bead jewelry section.

I agree I hate the truck springs and think the Kadees roll badly,
but they're also great looking trucks! I toss the Kadee wheels
and replace with Reboxx, which improves them considerably in
both rolling quality and appearance. Step 2 will be to replace
the springs.

Tim O'Connor
_________________________________________________________________
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Re: alternate standard offset twin hopper, was PRR N6B

armprem
 

Didn't MDC do an alternate offset 3 bay hopper.?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "ed_mines" <ed_mines@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 1:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] alternate standard offset twin hopper, was PRR N6B


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
asked - "P.S. So, what are the real reasons no one is doing the
alternate standard offset twin hopper?"

I'd like to see it too; it was used by Erie, my home road, but I think
it's too close to Athearn's and Atlas's cars.

I wonder how many average model railroaders replace their old models
when a new and improved version comes along? Obviously Walthers is
betting that enought will with these cabooses.

Some of the layouts featured in the various model magazines still run
older cars like Athearn reefers, ribbed hoppers and 40 ft. box cars
even though more accurate equivalents are produced.

Ed








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Couplers Locking Open (was:Couplers, Coupler pockets, etc.)

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

I have had numerous cases of Accumates locking open. I have never had
this problem with the Scale Accumates because the scale draft gear box
is too narrow to allow the coupler halves to separate far enough to
lock.

I have seen this on KD 5s as well. In this case it is caused by wear
on the knuckle stop on the side of the coupler. The stop gets worn down
sufficiently to allow the heel of the knuckle to slide slightly over it
and either jam or stick very briefly. I can often fix this by using
very fine needle nose pliers to slightly bend the bottom corner of the
heel on the knuckle inward so that it once again will hit the stop
firmly and not slide past it.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Denny Anspach
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 1:20 PM

I have heard before of the occasional scissors-like splitting of the
Accumates when being pushed. I have had some occasional issues with
Kadee 5s under the same circumstances (the coupler knuckles are
pushed open, and for some reason do not close fast enough when the
pressure is released) but this is has not been a memorable issue for
me.


The Good Old Days

Justin Kahn
 

I don't believe Binkley ever made their own sprung trucks (must have been someone else's). The first sprung trucks I bought were the MDC all-metal ones, which were quite nice and cost 75 cents for the kit (had to be assembled), and 75 cents was worth quite a bit more then--something like fifty years ago--than it is now ($1 an hour wage was respectable, so figure an equivalent of $15-16 in today's money). Varney trucks were only 50 cents, as I recall, and came assembled, but they had unit-cast wheelsets and axles in a nasty nylon (with knife-edge flanges), and the sideframes weren't as detailed as the MDC's.
I don't believe Mantua ever made any sprung trucks, and the top-of-the-line were Central Valleys, which I think (it's been a long time, and I am at the office and can't dig through old magazines and catalogues) went for 95 cents for the archbars (the HOn3 version cost $1.10). Their passenger trucks (still sought, as I note, after all these years since production ceased) went for over $2--exact price now forgotten, but probably closer to $3 than $2 (figure $35-40 in today's money)--but the springing was exquisite. They made two kinds of Fox trucks, one with individually-sprung journals--I wonder if one can find that today. Kadee sprung freight trucks were rather late-comers, although pretty much the standard for moe particular modelers by the 1960's.
As for replacement working leaf springs, have you looked in the PSC catalogue? Years ago Kemtron made them from copper and they were (as I recall) also full-elliptical as contrasted with the stamped steel semi-elliptical Silver Streaks (not that modelers back then weren't happy to have Silver Streak kits and trucks--at least I was).
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.





You've made my day. Was beginning to think I was one of the last who remembered bent metal tabs & slots for couplers.

What a lot of modelers would find useful are some leaf spring replacements for Kadee trucks. The last ones I have came in a Silver Streak box.

Another item is to put a black blank panel behind the truck springs, this eliminates the daylight issue with the coil springs.

IIRC, the first sprung trucks purchased came in a Binkley kit.

Fred Freitas


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "S. Busch" <SCSBusch@W...> wrote:

The first time I ever saw
> real looking truck they were HO sprung Varneys or Athearns or
something.

Me too!

> I have never quite recovered, and still prefer real springs.

I'd prefer real prototype springs but I don't think they'd fit plus they'd collapse my
benchwork. (-:}

Pat Wider
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injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

ed_mines
 

If injection mold tooling is expensive to produce did Terry Wegman
loose his shirt (or a lot of time) on the PFE -21 kits?

Ed Mines


Re: Couplers, Coupler pockets, etc.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I have noted Tony's caution that within bounds simply measuring breaking coupler breaking strength may not be too useful in judging coupler quality, if for the only reason that this kind of stress would be experienced only in a true minority of real-time model operating climates.

In this regard, Dennis Storzek told me a number of years ago that he tested the original Accumates by hanging a weight to the end a small string of cars equipped with Accumates that were in turn held on a sloping section of track attached to the ceiling of his basement (where he would leave them). The Accumates were in industry-standard Kadee/Athearn boxes, presumably the ones moulded on Accurail cars. He conducted the experiment both with reference to time, and to weight. The Accumates did finally fail over a certain length of time and with a certain level of weight, but the failure was not in the knuckle, the coupler head, or in the coupler shank per se, the failure was that the coupler shanks eventually twisted within the relatively loose box, opening the coupler halves in the process. Although I do not know this for certain, I have a feeling that it was the observation of this type of failure that persuaded him to design his new Accumate Protos to be engineered with the box as a true integrated system (the AccProto cannot twist or droop in its box).

I have heard before of the occasional scissors-like splitting of the Accumates when being pushed. I have had some occasional issues with Kadee 5s under the same circumstances (the coupler knuckles are pushed open, and for some reason do not close fast enough when the pressure is released) but this is has not been a memorable issue for me.

I have thought up a simple experiment in this regard with the Accumate Protos, and will report my results.

BTW, take a good look at a photo in Don Fiehmann's recent RMC article on maintenance where he depicts graphically the potential problems posed by couplers with draft angles drooping out of loose coupler boxes. That one coupler is higher than the other is only a part of the problem.

Dennhy

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


alternate standard offset twin hopper, was PRR N6B

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden" <Elden.Gatwood@h...>
asked - "P.S. So, what are the real reasons no one is doing the
alternate standard offset twin hopper?"

I'd like to see it too; it was used by Erie, my home road, but I think
it's too close to Athearn's and Atlas's cars.

I wonder how many average model railroaders replace their old models
when a new and improved version comes along? Obviously Walthers is
betting that enought will with these cabooses.

Some of the layouts featured in the various model magazines still run
older cars like Athearn reefers, ribbed hoppers and 40 ft. box cars
even though more accurate equivalents are produced.

Ed


Re: Scale Couplers: Distances between cars; Prototype vs. Model

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Reviewing my post on this subject, I did not make clear that the measured distance between the faces of the draft gear boxes of coupled cars (which is what I measured) is NOT the same as the measured distances between end sills, or car ends. As one can readily observe, the draft gear faces project beyond the end sills differently on different cars, depending upon individual design and construction details of the underframes, and the placement of bolsters.

So, if the draft gear box faces are *correctly placed* on your models, simply measuring the distance between the faces will give you some idea where you might be as related to the distance expected with the prototype with Type E couplers ("30"). If smaller industrial or earlier couplers are modeled, then the expected distance would seem to be about 24".

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: PRR N6B; was injection molding tooling costs in China

ljack70117@...
 

On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:45 AM, Eric wrote:

Elden Gatwood wrote:

I came across a write-up for a low pressure limited run injection molded kit. The kit was 168
pieces, of which three were resin and 54 were photoetched, the rest being injection molded. It was
listed at $45.00.

Eric Petersson
OK what is the product and who is the manufacture?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end to end, someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them.


Re: 1949 NKP Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Bill Darnaby
 

Hmmm...cabotage. A new word for me. I had hoped my comments would provoke <g> a good explaination and I got it. Thanks. I figured the loading of Canadian cars was probably a rules violation but I wasn't sure.

Bill Darnaby

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