Sorry, it is March 4th. Was a typo on my part.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Just in case anyone didn't get the mailer yet the meets are scheduled for;

Pleasanton, CA, Sunday March 11th, 10-6, $25 with free mini-kit
Monrovia, CA, Sunday March 14th, 10-6, $30 with free mini-kit (table

$30)


I really suspect the Monrovia meet is Sunday, March 4th, since it's the week
before Pleasanton.

Tom M.

March 14 is a Wednesday. When is this event really being held?
-Jay

Tim O'Connor wrote:

So what is the mini-kit, and who's going to pick one up for me? ;o)

After Jon Miller had posted:

Pleasanton, CA, Sunday March 11th, 10-6, $25 with free mini-kit
Monrovia, CA, Sunday March 14th, 10-6, $30 with free mini-kit (table

$30)


Must be a 10-6, right???

Oh, this isn't the PCL?

Tom M.

"Ah say, that's a joke, son!"
Senator Claghorn, for those old enough to remember.
Foghorn Leghorn, for those who aren't.

Send for registration to;

Sunshine Models
Box 4997
Springfield, MO 65808-4997

Tim,
It said on the sheet, "a free Sunshine Mini-Kit exclusively for
attendees".


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

So what is the mini-kit, and who's going to pick one up for me? ;o)

At 04:28 PM 1/25/01 -0800, you wrote:

Just in case anyone didn't get the mailer yet the meets are scheduled for;

Pleasanton, CA, Sunday March 11th, 10-6, $25 with free mini-kit
Monrovia, CA, Sunday March 14th, 10-6, $30 with free mini-kit (table $30)

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

Just in case anyone didn't get the mailer yet the meets are scheduled for;

Pleasanton, CA, Sunday March 11th, 10-6, $25 with free mini-kit

Hey, I could do this one.... who gets the dough?

Dave Nelson

Just in case anyone didn't get the mailer yet the meets are scheduled for;

Pleasanton, CA, Sunday March 11th, 10-6, $25 with free mini-kit
Monrovia, CA, Sunday March 14th, 10-6, $30 with free mini-kit (table $30)

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Ed,

By the time (1950) of the statistics in question, Bethlehem Steel was no
longer using coal at their Downey plant, which I assume is the one you
mean. I don't have my materials at hand, but IIRC the furnaces were
converted to gas and electric during WWII.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Ed Workman wrote:

Mike Brock writes, in response to Dave Nelson:

For example, in 1950, tons of coal received from other roads:

D&RGW: 2200k tons
UP: 3300k tons

These two are rather interesting. Perhaps D&RGW figures are due to the Utah
Coal Route, but UP's is intriguing.

Much of the coal received by the D&RGW from UCR was handed off to the UP
for shipment to Kaiser's Fontana steel mill, so that doubtless accounts for
a sizeable part of the UP's tonnage.

And the large tonnage received by the N&W is a curiosity....

I'll dig that out in time.

Is that a pun? if not, how large a shovel do you have? That's a lot of
coal, even in 1/87 scale.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Try http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsaquery.html

You can then choose either color or b&w or both. Then enter search words
like box car or yards, etc.

Dave Nelson writes:

For example, in 1950, tons of coal received from other roads:

D&RGW: 2200k tons
UP: 3300k tons

These two are rather interesting. Perhaps D&RGW figures are due to the Utah
Coal Route, but UP's is intriguing.

SP: 300k tons
MP: 1100k tons
NKP: 10900k tons (suggests why the NKP was bought by the NW, doesn't it?)
NW: 4900k tons
CBQ: 2400k tons

I certainly can understand the Q, given the diversity in Southern Illinois.

Yeah, mostly GS gons, not hoppers, but the point here is about coal

routings

and most of the data I have is western, but it does address the point.
Anyway, coal carloads averaged a bit more than 50 tons/car if one wants to
calculate carloadings. By this measure, the puny tonnage on the SP still
amounted to ~6000 cars in the year.

And the large tonnage received by the N&W is a curiosity....

I'll dig that out in time.

Mike Brock

On Jan 24, 8:45pm, Ben Hom wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Photo Documentation (was War Emergency Hoppers)

I like to think of this as the "Christine Syndrome" - a hundred years
from now, researchers of the Rock Island will conclude that the RI
commuter power pool consisted of Christines and E6s based on the
number of photos in existence!

FYI: "Christine" was RI DL-109 #621. It was re-engined by EMD, so took on
a unique appearance. That's why everyone photographed it. "Christine"
refers to a famous person of the '50's who underwent a sex-change
operation.

My personal favorites are
Jack Delano's color photos for the Office of War Information during
WWII - whole yard photos in color documenting the variety of
equipment at that time and (more importantly for those who DON'T
model the 1940s) are a great reference for accurately weathering
steam-era equipment.

I was unable to find these at the Library of Congress website. (I did find
a bunch of Mr. Delano's photos, however). What search URL is best to use?

Thanks,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

This might well explain why the N&W would be receiving coal from other
sources. Perhaps a customer needed a blend that included some
Pennsylvania anthracite, for example, or a particular coal with some
other special property that was not mined on the N&W.

That may be (tho I have some doubts about the RR's being all that helpful in
1950) and is just one more item to consider WRT foreign road cars in coal
service.

Bottom line is roads did receive coal that was mined offline. I havn't
heard anybody suggest there was a pool of hoppers (like what one might have
seen with auto cars) so I think there is a case for including foreign road
hoppers, maybe lots of them, in specific cases.

Dave Nelson

Ted Cullotta wrote:

"Many photographers may have photographed freight cars because of the
shock value to that particular photographer, thereby making the
extremely rare seem commonplace to subsequent would-be historians
examining the photos. I'm sure that there are many instances (and I
don't use this example literally, but rather illustratively) of a
photographer snapping a picture of the one pickle car he's ever seen
rather than the thousands of seemingly mundane hoppers that were
always 'in the way' when he peered through his viewfinder."

I like to think of this as the "Christine Syndrome" - a hundred years
from now, researchers of the Rock Island will conclude that the RI
commuter power pool consisted of Christines and E6s based on the
number of photos in existence!

Seriously, though, this underlines one of the few pitfalls of
photographic documentation - the natural human desire of a
photgrapher to record the unusual rather than the mundane. This
makes all of that work spent with a magnifying glass over yard and
whole train pictures important because it allows the researcher the
ability to see the forest for the trees. My personal favorites are
Jack Delano's color photos for the Office of War Information during
WWII - whole yard photos in color documenting the variety of
equipment at that time and (more importantly for those who DON'T
model the 1940s) are a great reference for accurately weathering
steam-era equipment.

Of course, none of this is meant to discount the vital role of photos
in research.


Ben Hom

Dave and friends,

All coal is not the same. It has different thermal values, different
chemical components, different amounts of ash, etc. Metallurgical coal
(for smelting) is not the same as steamer coal (for power plants).

When I toured the N&W export yards in Norfolk about 17 years ago, I was
surprised to learn all this. Coal from many different sources was being
"warehoused" in their yard. This was blended as it was loaded onto ships
to the buyers' specifications. The properties of every car of coal
received were held in their computers, and specific cuts of cars were
pulled for blending as needed.

This might well explain why the N&W would be receiving coal from other
sources. Perhaps a customer needed a blend that included some
Pennsylvania anthracite, for example, or a particular coal with some
other special property that was not mined on the N&W.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Dave Nelson wrote:

Mike, an interesting sidelight on L&N coal-hauling operations. Owing to
chronic car shortages during WW II, the International Harvester Co. was
having great difficulty getting a steady supply of coal from a
company-owned coal mine at Benham, KY on the L&N to a company-owned steel
mill near Chicago. They therefore purchased a slew of second-hand L&N
USRA-design twin hoppers (the 7/43 ORER shows 447 cars) which were numbered
in the IHCX 201-700 series and operated in captive service - the ORER entry
specifies that these cars were to be loaded only at the Wisconsin Steel
Coal Mines at Benham, KY. and the cars were stenciled "return to Benham, KY
via L&N RR." After the war, IHC continued to own and operate these cars
through the 1950s and into the early '60s (I have a photo of one still in
service at Chicago in '63, though they're gone from my '65 ORER). I also
have a photo of two IHCX hoppers at Columbus, OH in 6/59, coupled to an L&N
hopper which also was stenciled "return to Benham...." (I wonder what they
were doing in Columbus? I'd expect them to be routed via PRR or Monon from
Louisville to Chicago. Maybe IHC was routing them to another destination
by the late '50s.)

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520