Date   

Re: Freight Car Distribution

Randy Williamson
 

At 09:07 PM 10/23/2005, you wrote:
Is anyone familiar with the contents of this book? Is it useful to
modelers interested in operation? Would this book help determine
which freight cars ought to be seen on my model RR?

I have a copy of this book. Very informative on freight car
handling. It can be a little dry reading.

Randy


Freight Car Distribution

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

The following book is listed on eBay with auction ending Oct 27 at 14:35 PDT. Freight Car Distribution And Car Handling In The U.S.A. Item number: 4584218001.

Description: Freight Car Distribution And Car Handling In The United States by E. W. Coughlin, Manager, Railroad Relations, Car Service Division
Association American Railroads, Car Service Division, 1956. Hb, blue cloth on boards, good condition, former owner's name at the top of the front free endpaper. 338 pages, 9 1/4" tall.

Is anyone familiar with the contents of this book? Is it useful to modelers interested in operation? Would this book help determine which freight cars ought to be seen on my model RR?

Gene Green


Re: Plywood reefers

Greg Martin
 

In Tony Thompson's message back to Ben he writes:


As Ben Hom has already answered, the problem was in adequate sealing of
the edges of the plywood sheets. Soo Line had the same problem with box cars
having single sheathing of plywood. Rubber and metal seal strips were not good
enough. The plywood curled and cracked, and was judged (by PFE anyway) to be
inadequately weather resistant if any of the protection system (joint
sealing strips, and paint generally) failed. PFE concluded it was not worth
repairing them in kind, thus returned to T&G....<<

Likely the issue was not a plywood (or also know as Plyscore at the time)
but actually an application error... but at the time there was likely little
know of the issue of application or were not properly relayed to the end user.
When you butt plywood edge to edge and don't leave a gap the aforementioned
condition results... apparent delamination at the edge, which could have been
avoided if properly applied. The sheets must be gapped or the top veneer
can't expand and that causes the top veneer to separate from the veneer below and
causes the top veneer to wrinkle or as Tony puts it "curled" or it may check
or as Tony puts it "cracks" These are all installation errors. While the
edges do need sealed to avoid true glue-line delamination I don't see that
condition in the effects of the plywood cabooses(NYC) or Reefers that were
sheathed with Douglas Fir Plywood. Now to see why the SOO Line cabooses didn't do
this...


Dennis writes...

Tony,
Care to offer a citation to info on the Soo Line plywood covered boxcars? I
suspect you are thinking of the GN, but I'm always looking for new and
interesting facts about the Soo.<

The Soo Line did cover quite a few cabooses with plywood in the late
sixties and it held up well enough. The joints were covered with sheet metal lap
strips that had a shallow bend in the center, which tended to keep the edges
tight to the plywood between the screws. Then again, this "fix" was only
intended to last five years, until sufficient new steel cabooses were on the
property. The plywood was applied right over the ratty car siding, with a new wider
letterboard applied to cover the top edge.<

Ah Ha! We see that the installation had changed and it was done correctly
allowing the veneers to float between what Dennis describes as, "The joints
were covered with sheet metal lap strips that had a shallow bend in the center,"
a simple matter of letting the panels stay apart...

If I could hazard a guess as to what the railroads disliked about plywood
on freight cars, it is plywood's tendency to shed paint in sheets. The hard
early wood grain in Douglas fir is very resistant to paint penetration, and in
making rotary cut veneer, the hard grain becomes wide bands.<

Well, the grain is a bit of an issue but the real reason that the paint
wouldn't hold is because the veneers were constantly moving, expanding and
contracting and yes the wide grain (flat grain) was an issue but the edge grain
could be even worst in reality. But if the plywood was primed with White
pigmented shellac the paint peel issue would have diminished for the most part...
But that primer is much more expensive as well...

Plywood wasn't used for house siding, either, for the same reason until the
industry came up with what is known as T-111 siding. This plywood has strips
of rough sawn veneer on the face ply, which hold paint well, separated by
grooves to make it look like boards. It came too late to be used on freight
cars, and anyway, I can't see the car builders liking the rough sawn look on a
freight car.

Dennis Storzek<

Dennis is correct, plywood was not used for house siding until much later
than this list chooses to cover. But the one of the first sidings used was 303
T-1-11 ( it was actually referred to as 303-0,6, or 18 meaning the number of
repairs, synthetic or natural, to the face) but at first with a smooth face
and then later with a resawn face which did hold paint better. The success of
the panel was and continues to be that the panels don't but tight together...
But I have seen some repainted wood sheathed cars that look to have been
rough sawn but is just shoddy restoration work...

Greg Martin


Re: Ice Operations

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Betz wrote:
Where can I find descriptions of the various jobs worked at the
ice houses and ice docks? If it is in the PFE book just say so.
Typically one splitter, one passer, and one guy on the car top for each pair of car ends. About four to six such crews working in tandem. This is in the book, I think.

Any comparisons of the size of the crews required for ice ops
-vs- what was required after mech reefers were adopted?
Number of guys on the ice deck for mech reefers probably zero <g>. What do you mean by "ops" here? Obviously there had to be personnel checking diesel fuel, temperature levels, etc. at terminals, but far fewer than ice decks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Plywood reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Care to offer a citation to info on the Soo Line plywood covered boxcars? I
suspect you are thinking of the GN, but I'm always looking for new and
interesting facts about the Soo.
There was a photo in Railway Age, I think in the late 1930s. I've recently been browsing the RA volumes looking for additional freight car stuff, but wasn't specifically interested in the Soo cars. If you want me to look back for a citation, I'll do so. The photo was one of the "Fowler" cars.

This plywood has
strips of rough sawn veneer on the face ply, which hold paint well,
separated by grooves to make it look like boards. It came too late to be
used on freight cars, and anyway, I can't see the car builders liking the rough
sawn look on a freight car.
Dennis, are you aware of the horizontally grooved plywood that PFE tried out? Photos in the book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Ice Operations

Jim Betz
 

Tony (or anyone else),

Where can I find descriptions of the various jobs worked at the
ice houses and ice docks? If it is in the PFE book just say so.
Any comparisons of the size of the crews required for ice ops
-vs- what was required after mech reefers were adopted?
TIA ... Jim


Re: Accumate Proto:HO couplers

mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@..., "David Ball" <davidball@x...> wrote:

Has it been determined the practical minimum radius the PROTO:HO couple can
be used for effective operation? I'm thinking literally how tight can the
radius be before it may cause problems for the coupler, not just that it
cope with typical tight radius like 18"
Judging by the responses to your question so far, the answer is "no." Might be time to buy
a few sets, do some experimentation, and let us know your findings.

Walt Lankenau


Couplers ...

Jim Betz
 

Does anyone on the list have one each of the Kadee #5, #58, #78,
Accumate Proto, and Sergent couplers? If so would you please take
some pics of all of them lined up side by so we can compare them
visually in addition to all of the excellent verbal comparisons
that have already been provided here on this list? Please post to
the files/photos section. Thanks.


Re: Plywood reefers

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

As Ben Hom has already answered, the problem was in adequate
sealing of the edges of the plywood sheets. Soo Line had the same
problem with box cars having single sheathing of plywood. Rubber and
metal seal strips were not good enough. The plywood curled and cracked,
and was judged (by PFE anyway) to be inadequately weather resistant if
any of the protection system (joint sealing strips, and paint
generally) failed. PFE concluded it was not worth repairing them in
kind, thus returned to T&G....
Tony,

Care to offer a citation to info on the Soo Line plywood covered boxcars? I suspect you are thinking of the GN, but I'm always looking for new and interesting facts about the Soo.

The Soo Line did cover quite a few cabooses with plywood in the late sixties and it held up well enough. The joints were covered with sheet metal lap strips that had a shallow bend in the center, which tended to keep the edges tight to the plywood between the screws. Then again, this "fix" was only intended to last five years, until sufficient new steel cabooses were on the property. The plywood was applied right over the ratty car siding, with a new wider letterboard applied to cover the top edge.

If I could hazard a guess as to what the railroads disliked about plywood on freight cars, it is plywood's tendency to shed paint in sheets. The hard early wood grain in Douglas fir is very resistant to paint penetration, and in making rotary cut veneer, the hard grain becomes wide bands. Plywood wasn't used for house siding, either, for the same reason until the industry came up with what is known as T-111 siding. This plywood has strips of rough sawn veneer on the face ply, which hold paint well, separated by grooves to make it look like boards. It came too late to be used on freight cars, and anyway, I can't see the car builders liking the rough
sawn look on a freight car.


Dennis Storzek
Big Rock, IL


Re: RPI web site

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Phil,

Not to worry, RPI will be back on monday. No techs work the site on weekends, especially when it snows!

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Lord" <plord@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RPI web site


No. They have made some adjustments to their servers apparently and access is "temporarily" disrupted. It is not clear when or how the problems will go away. I had just paid my dues to access their resources for members, and the thing crashed before I could complete registration. I hope the give me a rain check :-)

Phil Lord
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] RPI web site



Anyone had any luck accessing the web site lately?



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Re: Weathering, the effects of location, and otherinteresting stuff

Greg Martin
 

Armand you ask...

"Could this have resulted from wartime neglect more than anything?.Playing
catch-up was a long drawn out process. A "War weary" fleet was slowly being
repaired or replaced.
Armand Premo"

Armand,

If you are referring to the post and photo and Elden is referring to he PRR
was in just skirting receivership at the time (as well as the NYC) as the
photo was actually taken after this list allows. The cars are particularly aging
X29's in an era where unless you were loading tons of 40-foot cars at grain
elevators you were likely storing them. I can't say that is a good bellwether
to anything but bad order cars... I am of the camp that most pre wars cars
were not maintained as often in the post war era as many roads were buying new
and replacing old. I have seen photos of post war leased cars that were
repainted in newer PRR livery than older pre war cars and the same for PRR shop
built cars. The industry was changing...

Greg Martin


Lehigh Valley Combines - War era

Philip Lord <plord@...>
 

Hi,

If this is not within the list parameters, just delete it, but combines did carry freight in one end. :-)

Anyway, I am looking for a source to confirm whether the design (length, window placement, etc,) of these cars changed after 1945. I am finding early 1950s photos but need to model mid-1940s. Also, the color seems to be red in the '50s. Did they come in other colors? Would they have been a drab green during the war (for any reason)?

Phil Lord
plord@...


Re: RPI web site

Philip Lord <plord@...>
 

No. They have made some adjustments to their servers apparently and access is "temporarily" disrupted. It is not clear when or how the problems will go away. I had just paid my dues to access their resources for members, and the thing crashed before I could complete registration. I hope the give me a rain check :-)

Phil Lord

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] RPI web site



Anyone had any luck accessing the web site lately?



SPONSORED LINKS Worldwide travel insurance Travel trailer insurance International travel insurance
Travel insurance usa Travel medical insurance Csa travel insurance


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "STMFC" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: RPI web site

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

This seems to happen now and then with certain servers and certain
websites. Be patient and try again some other time. I just tryed with
no joy.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "gsb157" <sgaab@p...> wrote:

I tried last night and again a few minutes ago. No luck. It will not
load.

Greg Bartek

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:


Anyone had any luck accessing the web site lately?


Re: URTX reefers (was: reefer pix)

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

How about the riveted steel reefers in the last few shots in
RPCyc's latest issue? They look like some form of R-40-??.

As far as Intermountain's prototype paint jobs: Yup. Found
that out the hard way. (Plus, jumping over to the string about paint
stripping: their lettering is REALLY tough to remove. What finally
worked on the PS-1 was to use Scalecoat's stripper on a Q-tip and dab
it on the letters, then rub like mad with the rolled paper stick which
has the cotton removed. Also helps to scratch at it with a fingernail.
Then, after that, I stripped the rest of the paint with more Scalecoat
stripper. And, still had to sand over some of the letter "ghosts" with
1000 grit w&d). But back to the point: I had resolved myself to the
fact that the lettering was incorrect and have a set of Microscale NP
decals in the closet. Was just hoping it was prototypical: the paint
job is much better than the two Walthers reefers that are also
numbered in that block.
Best regards,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:


Well....I hate to be the first one to tell you
this...but...uh...Intermountain is not ruled by prototypically
correct paint
schemes. In fact, the R-40-23 is a very good model of...well...an
R-40-23...which was built for PFE in rather large numbers and is an
important car in the PFE fleet. NP had a much smaller number of
clones of
the R-40-23. Other than that...

Mike Brock


Re: old question about roof walks for new members

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 23, 2005, at 2:33 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Ed Mines wrote:
I know that at least a few railroads specified
that the roof walks be unpainted.
Which ones? and were they wood or steel?
IIRC, the paint specs compiled some years ago from AC&F records by Hawkins, Wider & Long showed that some RRs left their wood running boards unpainted, one of them being the New York Central.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: RPI web site

Greg Bartek
 

I tried last night and again a few minutes ago. No luck. It will not
load.

Greg Bartek

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:


Anyone had any luck accessing the web site lately?


Re: old question about roof walks for new members

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Mines wrote:
I know that at least a few railroads specified
that the roof walks be unpainted.
Which ones? and were they wood or steel?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: RPI web site

Rich Yoder
 

YEa I was just there.
Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: <stmfc@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] RPI web site



Anyone had any luck accessing the web site lately?





Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: old question about roof walks for new members

Tim O'Connor
 

Here's an old question about roof walks for new members - Were many
steam era roof walks (particularly wooden roof walks) unpainted? This
is particularly addressed to men who actually were atop the cars.
Ed,

The half-life of unpainted wood in railroad service is quite brief.
I've never seen a photo of a new box car with an unpainted wooden
running board. Replacement planks sometimes did not get painted, or
sometimes the paint just wore off.

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