Date   

Re: Naperville Question

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

A drought can be expressed as a dearth of sunshine.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni

From: Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:04:05 -0400
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Naperville Question

O'Connor says:

Hey Mike, this post sounds awfully political to me... and if you
don't step in here I will weigh in on the side of the tax man!

Tim "taxes are WAY too low" O'Connor
I have my attention riveted on the water level over the road in front of my
house and the distance between it and the train room so I'm not too
concerned with your tax problem <g>. I COULD become more involved, however,
and, of course, my mood isn't real good right now. I'm reminded of the time
a few yrs ago when I found myself complaining to my boss just after he had
been reamed by someone else. Not a good practice...as I discovered at the
time.

Mike Brock...What's a drought?


Re: Naperville Question

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Glad to know you still have power, Mike! And your sense of humor.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brock" <brockm@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Naperville Question


O'Connor says:

Hey Mike, this post sounds awfully political to me... and if you
don't step in here I will weigh in on the side of the tax man!

Tim "taxes are WAY too low" O'Connor
I have my attention riveted on the water level over the road in front of my
house and the distance between it and the train room so I'm not too
concerned with your tax problem <g>. I COULD become more involved, however,
and, of course, my mood isn't real good right now. I'm reminded of the time
a few yrs ago when I found myself complaining to my boss just after he had
been reamed by someone else. Not a good practice...as I discovered at the
time.

Mike Brock...What's a drought?









Yahoo! Groups Links







NP box car #30995

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

There is a color photo of a long, shingle-sheathed box car at NP 30995 Box Car Item number: 6572658337.

The truss pattern suggests this car may be the result of splicing two cars. I think I see a Dreadnaught square corner end. When might this car have been built? Were there more? When was it retired?

Reply directly to bierglaeser at yahoo dot com if you care to.

Thanks in advance.

Gene Green


Re: Naperville Question

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

O'Connor says:

Hey Mike, this post sounds awfully political to me... and if you
don't step in here I will weigh in on the side of the tax man!

Tim "taxes are WAY too low" O'Connor
I have my attention riveted on the water level over the road in front of my house and the distance between it and the train room so I'm not too concerned with your tax problem <g>. I COULD become more involved, however, and, of course, my mood isn't real good right now. I'm reminded of the time a few yrs ago when I found myself complaining to my boss just after he had been reamed by someone else. Not a good practice...as I discovered at the time.

Mike Brock...What's a drought?


Re: Plywood reefers II

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Obviously not successful, because it didn't seem to be repeated. Yes, I'd
like the citation, and possibly a copy of the article, or at least the
photo and caption, at your convenience.
If I can get it done when on campus tomorrow, will bring to Naperville. Those interested, other than Dennis, can view the copies also.

I wrote:
Dennis, are you aware of the horizontally grooved plywood
that PFE tried out? Photos in the book.
Dennis replied:
What book? I'm not finding it in "The Great Yellow Fleet".
Hee, hee! Good one. There's a lot of reefer facts missing from it. But I meant that other book on reefers . . . try page 134.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Plywood reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Three possibilities come to mind . . . 3) the sheets moved after installation due
to the car frame twisting and "weaving", forcing the edges of the sheets
together.
In a steel-framed car? All of the PFE cars sheathed with plywood were of that type.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Plywood reefers II

Tim O'Connor
 

No, no, Dennis, the -OTHER- book! :-)

Dennis, are you aware of the horizontally grooved plywood
that PFE tried out? Photos in the book.
What book? I'm not finding it in "The Great Yellow Fleet".
Dennis Storzek


Re: Naperville Question

Tim O'Connor
 

Hey Mike, this post sounds awfully political to me... and if you
don't step in here I will weigh in on the side of the tax man!

Tim "taxes are WAY too low" O'Connor

For those driving from the East, it would be advisable to make a pit
stop at the last rest stop on the Indiana Toll Road - according to Rand
McNally, construction is still going on I-80/I-94 south of Chicago.

Also, tolls on the Illinois Taxway have increased from forty cents to
eighty cents per Toll (a total of $2.40 for the three tolls) according
to the Taxway's Web Site unless you have I-Pass which is, apparently,
good only in Illinois.

Hoping that the Web Site is incorrect, Tim Gilbert


Re: Naperville Question

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

At the risk of irritating the boss,
My family and I (me driving, wife, 4 kids under 10) spent 3 hours counting
cracks along 80/94 this August. Don't try to get from Gary to Winfield(n of
Naperville) on a Friday @ 3! All those people went to Iowa! Tolls are up,
a few on the north side were $1.
Joe Binish


Re: Naperville Question

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

For those driving from the East, it would be advisable to make a pit stop at the last rest stop on the Indiana Toll Road - according to Rand McNally, construction is still going on I-80/I-94 south of Chicago.

Also, tolls on the Illinois Taxway have increased from forty cents to eighty cents per Toll (a total of $2.40 for the three tolls) according to the Taxway's Web Site unless you have I-Pass which is, apparently, good only in Illinois.

Hoping that the Web Site is incorrect, Tim Gilbert


Re: Plywood reefers II

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Care to offer a citation to info on the Soo Line plywood covered
boxcars? ...
There was a photo in Railway Age, I think in the late 1930s. I've
recently been browsing the RA volumes looking for additional freight
car stuff, but wasn't specifically interested in the Soo cars. If you
want me to look back for a citation, I'll do so. The photo was one of
the "Fowler" cars.
Obviously not successful, because it didn't seem to be repeated. Yes, I'd like the citation, and possibly a copy of the article, or at least the photo and caption, at your convenience.

This plywood has
strips of rough sawn veneer on the face ply, which hold paint well,
separated by grooves to make it look like boards....
Dennis, are you aware of the horizontally grooved plywood
that PFE tried out? Photos in the book.
What book? I'm not finding it in "The Great Yellow Fleet".


Dennis Storzek


Re: Naperville Question

Larry Kline
 

I am traveling from Midway to Naperville by public transportation. CTA
from Midway to the loop. A short walk to the METRA station. METRA from
the loop to Naperville. And a long walk, or Holiday Inn pickup, from
the Naperville RR station to the Holiday Inn. The total cost is $5 or
$6. The travel time is several hours (of railfanning). CTA and Metra
info are online.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

I investigated flying into O'Hare or Midway for Naperville. The
> Holiday Inn does not have a shuttle to either O'Hare or Midway.
> Hiring a limousine, which one must book in advance, was cheaper than
> a taxi but still around fifty bucks as I now recall. I found
> limousine services online.
> Gene Green


Re: LV hoppers in 1945

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Ed and Group,

I've posted a scan in the Files section under LV 15041. In the
book, you can make out the car number. I have to caution that it
could have been "45XXX" instead of "15XXX" (I said it wasn't a GOOD
photo!), however I don't see a 45000 series car which fits this
description in Mr. Shaller's car list.
One interesting thing is that there are additional diagonals on
the extreme end panels.
One note: I find it interesting that the railroads continued to
use diagonals in compression, especially on hopper cars. It's
understandable on box cars since the crossbearers change the way in
which the side panel trusses are loaded. However, on a hopper car,
there is no inturruption in the side panels, so a Pratt truss would
truly put the diagonals in tension. I guess that the argument could
be made that if the diagonals were in tension, then the verticals
would be in compression, so one piece or the other ends up loaded as
a column. On the other hand, the verticals are the shorter of the
two members, and so would have greater buckling strength for the
same cross section.

Hope the photo is of some use!
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
Phil-
I haven't located the photo you sent but from the description it
sounds like what I described as a #7 - a unique looking car with
diagonal braces extending below the SLOPE sheets.

Ed


Re: Plywood reefers

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

I'm sure Greg is right. The PFE documents did refer to "curling,
checking and cracking," but as it happens the shop sketch I saw did
have about a 1/8 inch gap between the plywood sheets. Is that an
inadequate gap, Greg? That gap was in addition to the T-section metal
seal strip (with the "leg" of the T down between the sheets).
As for it being an "installation error," I have no doubt that
PFE followed the instructions of the Douglas Fir Plywood Association --
whatever they may have been <g>.
Three possibilities come to mind. 1) the drawing calls for the 1/8" gap, but the shops mis-interpreted this as being the gap FOR the metal trim, rather than IN ADDITION TO it. 2) the shops installed the plywood with the specified gap, but the gap, while adequate for house construction, was inadequate for railroad service. 3) the sheets moved after installation due to the car frame twisting and "weaving", forcing the edges of the sheets together.

I am not aware that the Soo Line gave this any consideration when the recovered their cabooses, but then again, the plywood was so far from the car frame, being attached to the ild siding, that it likely just shifted towards the end of the car when it expanded from moisture.

I kind of wonder why the Ply-Metal Company didn't jump in here with their metal faced wood laminate. Ply-Metal was adopted early on by Electro-Motive for side sheets on F and E units, and seemed to give good service. I suppose the extra cost and weight made it non-competitive with plain steel.


Dennis Storzek


Interchange Information Reports

John Swanson <dwlscbq@...>
 

When I was working the Forreston Illinois agency relief on the ICRR in 1966; the agent had a box of stuff he was going to burn when he got back.
I went through it (of course) and found two books where the conductors listed the cars they delivered to the Milwaukee at North Forreston (Forreston Pit).
These books covered from Sept 1, 1950 to June 1952. As a near continuous record of cars delivered in day to day interchange service, at a single location, for a period of 19 months they are rather interesting.
Most include the train, engine, conductor and time.
The Lancaster & Chester had 10 box cars in interchange service and they show up at least twice: NH, D&H and other hoppers loaded with coal going from the IC to the Milw at Forreston ILL; the range of commodities from TV' coal, sisal and so on is alone facinating.

I had these books in the library for years. Then Ted Richardson borrowed them and he has spent the tedious hours of numbing work to put them on CD. (I used to balance the monthly reports and I know just how numbing doing that kind of work can be).

Ted will have these CD's for sale at Naperville and offered by mail later on.
I may well be wrong; it would not be the first time nor last, but I think the listing of the cars themselves, commodities and all the other data will be of great interest to both freight car modelers and those speculating in the operations side of things.
I am tickled because Ted has made these records available to all and the data will not be lost. I am 62 and the facts of life are that, all to often when some passes on. data such as this is lost to all. It is also rather hard to disseminate data from two 55 year old train list books very far before the books themselves start to fall apart.
See Ted at Naperville. I hope this data will be of use to many of you.
On a personal note, I would appreciate any feedback as to whether the books I saved are of use to you.

I was 23 then and still wonder what I may have passed up in that box of stuff those 39 years ago.

John Swanson


New book and Naperville

Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...>
 

Hi Everyone,

Just got in a new book titled Ogden rails and about the railroads of Ogden, Utah. There are several yard views of different eras in which the freight cars make an interesting study. You can see the book at my display on Saturday at Naperville.

I also picked up a collection of several older historical society magazines that I will be bringing to Naperville. The societies are the Chicago North Western, Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, Great Northern, Missouri Pacific and Milwaukee Road. Bring your list of missing copies to help fill out your collection. I also picked up some old Mainline Modelers. If you need a particular issue, I can bring it on Saturday.

The sales at Naperville will only be on Saturday this year. Contact me off line if you want me to bring a particular book or model to the meet.

Hope to see many of you in a few days.

Ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://users.foxvalley.net/~railsunl/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 3% added).


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Re: Naperville Question

Tim O'Connor
 

I found "American Taxi" online that offers a $35 rate from
O'Hare to Naperville -- 1-800-244-1177 -- time estimated
at 40 minutes.

I investigated flying into O'Hare or Midway for Naperville. The
Holiday Inn does not have a shuttle to either O'Hare or Midway.
Hiring a limousine, which one must book in advance, was cheaper than
a taxi but still around fifty bucks as I now recall. I found
limousine services online.
Gene Green


Re: Naperville Question

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

I investigated flying into O'Hare or Midway for Naperville. The
Holiday Inn does not have a shuttle to either O'Hare or Midway.
Hiring a limousine, which one must book in advance, was cheaper than
a taxi but still around fifty bucks as I now recall. I found
limousine services online.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@n...> wrote:

Dave,
You might check to see if the hotel has a shuttle service.
<snip>

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <muskoka@c...> wrote:

I'm attending the Naperville meet for the first time and as
circumstances
have it I need to depart on Saturday evening. Are lots of other
folks
leaving then too or is the mass departure normally on Sunday
afternoon?
A.K.A. I need a ride to the airport and need to know if it'll be
easy to
snag a lift or do I have to make other arraignments? 8-)

Dave Nelson


Re: Naperville Question

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Dave,
You might check to see if the hotel has a shuttle service.

We have had some great bull sessions on Sat night in rooms the vendors
had vacated. Last year several of us from all across the country and
Canada shared stories. A highlight of the trip.

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <muskoka@c...> wrote:

I'm attending the Naperville meet for the first time and as
circumstances
have it I need to depart on Saturday evening. Are lots of other
folks
leaving then too or is the mass departure normally on Sunday
afternoon?
A.K.A. I need a ride to the airport and need to know if it'll be
easy to
snag a lift or do I have to make other arraignments? 8-)

Dave Nelson


Re: Freight Car Distribution

Larry Kline
 

Gene Green wrote:
The following book is available on eBay: Freight Car Distribution And Car Handling In The United States by E. W. Coughlin, Manager, Railroad Relations, Car Service Division Association American Railroads, Car Service Division, 1956.
Is anyone familiar with the contents of this book? Is it useful to modelers interested in operation? Would this book help determine which freight cars ought to be seen on my model RR?

Gene,
I have this book and find it very interesting. It explains the rationale for the car service rules in great detail. There are chapters on the annual grain rush, coal car distribution, privately owned tanks and reefers, and the post WW II freight car shortage. The author and his employees traveled around the country advocating for the use of the car service rules, so they apparently were aware that the rules weren't always followed.

This book will give you some ideas for operating your model RR and a little help with which freight car types ought to be seen. It won't help much at all with which railroads should be represented.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

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