Date   

Culotta article on SP B-50-13, -14 box cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I don't have my back issues of RMC unpacked yet. Does anyone with them handy have the reference for Ted's article on the cars in the subject line? TIA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NC&StL flat car (Tichy) trucks

Don Worthy
 

Hello Garrett. You, no doubt, have more information on the NC&StL than I do. Is the Intermountain 40ft. war emergency drop bottom gon correct for a NC&StL car? I took 2 kits in a trade and they are neatly lettered. I'll hate to repaint/ letter them but, if they aren't close....
Thanks
Don Worthy

"Garrett W. Rea" <Garrett.Rea@...> wrote:
Bruce, Mont et al:

Don't make the same mistake I did. The NC car is black with white
lettering. When I built mine I got the idea they were boxcar red
with
white lettering and only when I inquired of NC authority Steven
Johnson
did I learn of my error.
I spoke with Steve Johnson at lenght about these and other cars this
past April before James Bilbrey and I put together our NC&StL freight
car modelling clinc and thick booklet this past May. Steve's
comments than and again this weekend along with builder and in-
service photo review still steer us to oxide red for the cars. NC
cars also had their trucks painted when new so they will cast the
same tint.

One of the photos was taken in TN back during WWII with AC&F tanks
(the armored military type) as a load.

I've been working on a couple Tichy 40' flat car kits (AC&F, 1923
NC&StL
prototype) and I have decided to model one as an NC&StL car and one
as a
CN car. My question is what trucks are appropriate for these cars
circa
1944?
There were actually two classes:

The ones you mention are the FM-8, 70100-70199, built by AC&F in 1923.

The others were FM-9, 70200-70299, built by AC&F in 1926.

The FM-8s used Standard ARA trucks, James used the Accurail ones.

The FM-9s used Dahlman trucks, I used the ECW ones.

All of this info comes from NC&StL diagram sheets and builder's
photos.

The only mod to the kit is adding end stake pockets, I just cut holes
in the deck during assemlby for this.

Good luck-

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN










There is a builders photo of NC&StL at the RPI (pay) site
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Flats/Flat-cars-NC&StL-
like-
Tichy-28-cyc.jpg
that appears to show a cast sideframe truck with an interesting
spring
package (4 visible with the center 2 protruding more). I would
appreciate
any suggestions on the correct trucks to use on these models.

Thanks
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL





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Re: ammonia cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 24, 2005, at 6:10 PM, Clark Propst wrote:

A friend has some train lists with UTLX 90,000 series cars hauling ammonia.

Are there any models of this type of car?
Those would have been 10,500 or 11,000 gal. ICC-105 high pressure cars. Most were built to UTL's own designs, but AC&F sold some cars of AC&F design to UTL ca. 1947-'48, and UTL's AC&F cars are modeled in HO by Atlas. However, in all of the builder's photos I have of these cars, they were stenciled for LPG service only.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: ammonia cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gregg Mahlkov wrote:
Any sort of industry that would manufacture ice for its own use or for sale.
The manufacture of ice using ammonia was invented just down the road from
here by Dr. John Gorrie, in Apalachicola, FL.
Gosh, all these years I understood it was invented in Germany in 1884. Can you tell us more about Dr. Gorrie?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


New from Speedwitch

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

Sorry for taking bandwidth, but I have a few things from Speedwitch to announce. First, Prototype Railroad Modeling, Volume One is available. This a prototype-based modeling journal with in-depth articles. Second is a calendar with 13 exquisite images, all useful for modeling, plus prototype meet information listed on the calendar. It doesn't have all the meets, but it has most that were provided (I lost a few along the way due to an email hiccup). There is more information about both of these at the site, along with some specials if purchased together (paypal accepted). I have finished building the Southern gon that will be used for the kit's instructions. I expect to have the instructions completed very, very soon and may even have a few to sell at Naperville. I also should have the decals for the Northern Specific Models (www.northernspecificmodels.com) NP 52' flat, as well as a built-up (but unlettered) model of the car at Naperville for all to see. The Southern gon as well as the decals will go up on the site after Naperville.

If you would like to order things and pick them up at Naperville, please indicate this preference via email or in your order if using paypal. I will set them aside for you. You can do this up until late Friday evening.

Please go to www.speedwitch.com for more info.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: ammonia cars

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Clark,

Any sort of industry that would manufacture ice for its own use or for sale. The manufacture of ice using ammonia was invented just down the road from here by Dr. John Gorrie, in Apalachicola, FL.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clark Propst" <cepropst@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 9:10 PM
Subject: [STMFC] ammonia cars


A friend has some train lists with UTLX 90,000 series cars hauling ammonia.

Are there any models of this type of car?

What type of rural industry would have used ammonia? Cars were routed to SE MN.

Thanks,
Clark Propst






Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: ammonia cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Mon, October 24, 2005 8:10 pm, Clark Propst wrote:
A friend has some train lists with UTLX 90,000 series cars hauling
ammonia.

Are there any models of this type of car?

What type of rural industry would have used ammonia? Cars were routed to
SE MN.
Fertilizer! Agriculture is a huge user of Nitrogen and ammonia is a major
source.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


ammonia cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

A friend has some train lists with UTLX 90,000 series cars hauling ammonia.

Are there any models of this type of car?

What type of rural industry would have used ammonia? Cars were routed to SE MN.

Thanks,
Clark Propst


Re: Icing cars was: Ice Operations

PBowers <waiting@...>
 

At 08:06 PM 10/24/05, you wrote:

Peter Bowers wrote:
In The CN code of rules for icing cars it states . . .
Reference is also made of tamping ice to assure no voids
are present.
This last comment is interesting. PFE workmen used a long steel
bar to kind of stir the ice and allow it to compact itself; this was
called "barring" the ice. Tamping sounds more risky to the bunker
lining and bottom. The PFE ice deck directions explained that "barring"
was primarily to minimize any sizable voids in the ice load.
The book also gives info on the "standard tamping pole" It was to be second growth hickory if obtainable or clear sound ash or oak. The handle was 1 3/4" round and 5 feet or more long. On the end was a blade 4 feet long 1 7/8" X 3" ending in a 6 inch point. No mention is made that the "blade" is other than the same wood.

Peter Bowers


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Re: NP box car #30995

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 24, 2005, at 11:08 AM, Gene Green wrote:

There is a color photo of a long, shingle-sheathed box car at NP 30995
Box Car Item number: 6572658337.

The truss pattern suggests this car may be the result of splicing two
cars. I think I see a Dreadnaught square corner end. When might this
car have been built? Were there more? When was it retired?
Ten cars numbered 30990-30999. They were rebuilt in 1965 by extending
the length of some 20000 20499 series boxcars, originally built in the
NP shops in 1931-'32, from 40'6" IL to 50'3" IL – hence the off-center
doors. IIRC, this was done to provide a small number of cars for
on-line LCL service. Neither the concept nor the cars lasted very
long. The cars did not go off line in interchange and were retired in
the '70s.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Icing cars was: Ice Operations

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Peter Bowers wrote:
In The CN code of rules for icing cars it states . . .
Reference is also made of tamping ice to assure no voids
are present.
This last comment is interesting. PFE workmen used a long steel bar to kind of stir the ice and allow it to compact itself; this was called "barring" the ice. Tamping sounds more risky to the bunker lining and bottom. The PFE ice deck directions explained that "barring" was primarily to minimize any sizable voids in the ice load.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NC&StL flat car (Tichy) trucks

Garrett W. Rea <Garrett.Rea@...>
 

Bruce, Mont et al:

Don't make the same mistake I did. The NC car is black with white
lettering. When I built mine I got the idea they were boxcar red
with
white lettering and only when I inquired of NC authority Steven
Johnson
did I learn of my error.
I spoke with Steve Johnson at lenght about these and other cars this
past April before James Bilbrey and I put together our NC&StL freight
car modelling clinc and thick booklet this past May. Steve's
comments than and again this weekend along with builder and in-
service photo review still steer us to oxide red for the cars. NC
cars also had their trucks painted when new so they will cast the
same tint.

One of the photos was taken in TN back during WWII with AC&F tanks
(the armored military type) as a load.

I've been working on a couple Tichy 40' flat car kits (AC&F, 1923
NC&StL
prototype) and I have decided to model one as an NC&StL car and one
as a
CN car. My question is what trucks are appropriate for these cars
circa
1944?
There were actually two classes:

The ones you mention are the FM-8, 70100-70199, built by AC&F in 1923.

The others were FM-9, 70200-70299, built by AC&F in 1926.

The FM-8s used Standard ARA trucks, James used the Accurail ones.

The FM-9s used Dahlman trucks, I used the ECW ones.

All of this info comes from NC&StL diagram sheets and builder's
photos.

The only mod to the kit is adding end stake pockets, I just cut holes
in the deck during assemlby for this.

Good luck-

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN










There is a builders photo of NC&StL at the RPI (pay) site
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Flats/Flat-cars-NC&StL-
like-
Tichy-28-cyc.jpg
that appears to show a cast sideframe truck with an interesting
spring
package (4 visible with the center 2 protruding more). I would
appreciate
any suggestions on the correct trucks to use on these models.

Thanks
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Culotta article on SP B-50-13, -14 box cars

Paul Lyons
 

One has to ask! Tony, Would you have your books unpacked any sooner than the
mags? Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


Re: Icing cars was: Ice Operations

PBowers <waiting@...>
 

At 05:26 PM 10/24/05, you wrote:
It's interesting to me that no one worked inside the reefer during loading. It seems curious to me that they would have allowed 'whatever happened' to the blocks of ice when they were dumped in to be the end result. I could understand that more easily if the blocks were smaller but as large as they were it is amazing that they didn't care if they ended up 'on end', sideways, catty-wompous, etc.
In The CN code of rules for icing cars it states: "Block ice should be in pieces of about 50 lbs each, except, where cars are initially iced, the first ice supplied should be small enough as not to injure the gratings of bunkers and the last ice should be sufficiently fine to fill the vacant spaces. Care must be used to ensure that space under the roof or running board is filled" Reference is also made of tamping ice to assure no voids are present.

Peter Bowers


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 10/21/05


Re: NP box car #30995

raildata@...
 

I think one of these cars showed up in hide service to the Endicott-Johnson
tannery at Endicott NY.

I had a negative of the car. Have heard that prints from my neg collection
are avaialbe through Bob's Phots but I cannot verify that.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


Re: Naperville Question

Jeff English
 

Unless the hotel has changed their policy, they provide a free shuttle
van to and from the Naperville train station, which is served by both
Metra (Burlington Line) and Amtrak (CZ, Chief and other, shorter-haul
trains).

Jeff English
Troy, New York
where, in 1955, the first Environmental Engineering degree program was
offered by any US university (by Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, of
course)


Re: Naperville Question

Tom Houle <thoule@...>
 

Dearth means a lack of as in, "There's a dearth of early registrations for the Naperville meet".
Tom Houle

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Naperville Question


Tim O'C wrote:
> what's a dearth?

I think it's a kind of a drought.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


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Re: Ice Operations

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Jim Betz wrote:

I should have stated my interest more clearly - I'm referring to
what went on at and around the ice docks - not the movement of cars
and other things "purely RR" but rather what the ice dock crews did
and when.
It's interesting to me that no one worked inside the reefer
during loading. It seems curious to me that they would have
allowed 'whatever happened' to the blocks of ice when they were
dumped in to be the end result. I could understand that more
easily if the blocks were smaller but as large as they were it
is amazing that they didn't care if they ended up 'on end', sideways,
catty-wompous, etc. I always figured that the ice bunkers on the
ends of the cars were filled to 'capacity' a lot of the time ... to
reduce the number of times they would have to be re-loaded in the
course of a trip from say Salinas to San Jose to Martinez to Sacramento
to Reno to Salt Lake, to Denver, to Chicago, to New York, to Boston.
That's a lot of days - even with highly expedited salad express
schedules.
How many times was a reefer re-iced in a trip from Salinas to Boston?
Was there a pre-cooling, loading, let the car come to target temp and
then final top off before transit or what?

==============================================


I just picked up the new Morning Sun book "Refrigerator Cars Color Guide" by
list member Gene Green. I note eight pages of color photos documenting
reefer icing at a few locations. Several photos depict icing operations on a
large dock in Columbus, Ohio, circa 1962.

While I have not consumed the entire book yet, I have found it a pretty
solid read and have learned much more about reefer operations than I had
previously understood. Thanks Gene!

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Naperville Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'C wrote:
what's a dearth?
I think it's a kind of a drought.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Ice Operations

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Betz asked:
It's interesting to me that no one worked inside the reefer
during loading. It seems curious to me that they would have
allowed 'whatever happened' to the blocks of ice when they were
dumped in to be the end result. I could understand that more
easily if the blocks were smaller but as large as they were it
is amazing that they didn't care if they ended up 'on end', sideways,
catty-wompous, etc.
There would be no way to work inside, as the bunker was walled off from the car interior. And I think you misunderstand what was done with the ice blocks. The PFE standard was a 300-pound block, and the job of the splitter on the deck was to quarter it, and then the passer moved the 75-pound (more or less) chunks to the car man, who chopped them down to the needed size: chunk (cantaloupe size) or crushed (fist size) as the ice went into the bunker. What went into the bunker was most certainly NOT the 300-pounder or even the 75-pounder. One often sees this wrongly modeled. (all this info is in the PFE book)

I always figured that the ice bunkers on the
ends of the cars were filled to 'capacity' a lot of the time ... to
reduce the number of times they would have to be re-loaded in the
course of a trip from say Salinas to San Jose to Martinez to Sacramento
to Reno to Salt Lake, to Denver, to Chicago, to New York, to Boston.
How many times was a reefer re-iced in a trip from Salinas to Boston?
Was there a pre-cooling, loading, let the car come to target temp and
then final top off before transit or what?
Yes, bunkers were normally filled to the top at each re-icing, but the shipper could specify adding a specific amount if desired.
Obviously frequency of re-icing depended on temperature, but every 24 hours is a good average. In cool weather, it could be much more. And the shipper could specify intervals if desired.
Whether a car was pre-iced was up to the shipper. It is LOADS which are pre-cooled, not cars. The PFE recommendation was for the shipper to pre-cool, as it got the load cool right from the loading time, thus reducing damage claims, and made shipment conditions more consistent. If a shipper ordered a pre-iced car, they usually just loaded it as fast as practical and closed the doors. (A big waste in many cases, as the cold air in the car rapidly drained out with the doors open for loading.) Such a car was ordinarily re-iced before starting transit, but the shipper could specify any arrangement whatever. A brief summary of refrigeration tariffs is also in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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