Date   

Re: GATX Insulated Tank Cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 7:23 am, Roger Robar wrote:
When where the GATX [#37,000 series] 10,000 Gallon Insulated tank cars
built? They are listed in my 1949 and 1954 ORER's. The Proto 2000 models
look very nice and I assume are very accurate renditions of the prototype.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Roger,

I don't know the specific series, but General American also built their
own tank cars. It is most likely that the cars in the series you cite
were these, and they are distinctively different from the AC&F type 21.
In particular they did not have a side sill, whereas the type 21 has a
channel side sill and the General American cars had a distinctive end
brace. It is possible that they purchased or absorbed some type 21
insulated cars, but you would have to know from photos. Overland models
did a nice version of the GATC built 10k gal insulated car and these show
up on eBay from time to time.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: N'ville atfermath

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@v...>
wrote: Bob's Photos and Mainline Photos were set up in their rooms,
with chairs if you could find an empty one.

I'm not familiar with Mainline, what do they offer? Do they sell
through the mail?

Ed


Re: UTLX tank cars.

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 12:34 pm, Arnold wrote:
It's me again.

I have severall UTLX tank cars, for instance the 10,000 gallon type 21
revited tank car by Proto 2000.
Was there also a model of 8,000 gallon?
Did they even existed at all?
When they didn't make a UTLX 8,000 gallon type, how can i make one?
Arnold,

In general, Union Tank Car (UTLX) built many of its own tank cars, the
X-3. These are available in resin from Sunshine Models in 6,000 gal, two
different 8,000 gal, and a 10,000 gal as well as the just release X-5
insulated pressure (propane) car. UTL built its own cars as well as
contracting with companies like AC&F. While the Type 21 was an AC&F
design, AC&F built cars for UTL to the X-3 design. However, UTL acquired
cars in mergers and buyouts and thus ended up with a number of type 21s.
It is extradinarily difficult from the ORER to tell what class a car is so
you need to work from photos. Life-like has worked with noted tank car
historians and generally I trust their numbering... so if Life-Like offers
an 8k gal type 21 lettered UTLX, it most likely had photo documentation.
If you can't find the model, you can buy any 8k type 21, strip it, paint
it black and use the Champ UTLX decals to letter it. Watch out for
Intermountain's type 27 UTLX cars. At least some of them are completely
fictional, and the one I bought had white lettering instead of the
appropriate yellow lettering.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Coupler gearbox.

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 12:07 pm, Arnold wrote:
Bruce,

What do you mean with "scale width"?
The width between 2 cars?
How can i make it scale width?
Arnold,

No, scale width refers to the side to side measurement. The "standard" HO
scale draft gear box in the US is wider than the prototype, which leads to
lots of problems including center sills that are too far apart in order to
match, not enought room on the end of the car for the brake hose, brake
gear and end grabs, and on cars where the ends are particulary visible
(tank cars, hoppers etc) a great fat ugly box out there.

Your mention of the #78, which comes with a scale width box make me think
you were thinking of that issue (as are many of us). If you are looking
for a "Scale head size" that is a drop in replacement in the existing Red
Caboose draft gear box then the #58 is the correct Kadee, and the Accumate
can also fit.

The distance between two cars is reffered to as the coupling distance, and
thats another issue entirely <G>!!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: UTLX tank cars.

Larry Grubb <larry450sl@...>
 

Arnold,
Proto 2000 8,000 gallon Type 21 UTLX tank cars were produced in 6 road numbers as kits and 6 road numbers as ready to run. Single kits were items 21756 & 21759. 4 pack kit was 21758. 6 RTR cars were item 21896. Kits were released January 1998, RTR June 1998.
Larry Grubb

Arnold <mrdata1968@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's me again.

I have severall UTLX tank cars, for instance the 10,000 gallon type 21
revited tank car by Proto 2000.
Was there also a model of 8,000 gallon?
Did they even existed at all?
When they didn't make a UTLX 8,000 gallon type, how can i make one?

Regards,
Arnold
Netherlands.






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Ted's new publications

ed_mines
 

I guess i must be one of the first to get Ted's 2 new publications.

Wow! They are magnificant!

As members of thsi group must know, I have a pretty big photo
collection. I've never seen any of the photos in the calendar although
I've seen similar photos to the Library of Congress prints in the war
time railroads book.

Best $40 I ever spent. I'd subscribe in a minute!

Ed


Re: Soo Line SS Boxcar

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

Thank you Dennis, your expertise and help on this is greatly
appreciated, as many of us love the old Soo Line. Now if we
only could get someone to do the Dalman two-level Andrews
trucks? All the Soo Line, GN, and SAL modelers would be very
happy indeed.

Thanks Again,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <dstorzek@e...> wrote:

Jerry,

It's hard to say with any authority, as the General Mechanical
Office
files that would have the information seem to no longer exist, so
all
I can cite is photos, and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the
black from the FCR car.

Builder's photos of the cars show black backgrounds, at least
through
1926, and I don't see any reason that there'd be a change before the
beginning of the Great Depression. I have a copy of a nice photo of
one of the 1913 built cars with the new data arrangement and a 1933
scale date, and it has a black background, so repaints done during
the
period must have also been done this way.

During the late thirties and through WWII, the railroad was in the
throes of an austerity program, as both the Soo Line and leased
subsidiary Wisconsin Central were in bankruptcy. Use of the "$"
herald
with an "open" (car color) background on cabooses is well
documented,
but harder to do so on freight cars. It may well be that they just
weren't repainting many freight cars. However, builders photos of
all
the new steel AAR boxcars that came from Pullman during the late
thirties and early forties definitely show black backgrounds in the
heralds. This may reflect the lack of any incremental cost
difference
on new cars, compared to the more closely accounted for costs in
their own shops.

After WWII, when the Soo began assembling their own cars at the WC
shops in North Fond du Lac, the original run of cars built in 1949
had
heralds without any black. This continued with the "sawtooth" cars
rebuilt with new roofs and underframes in 1950, when the Korean
conflict put the crimp on steel supplies for building new cars, and
again when new car construction resumed in 1951. Midway through the
1951 production is when the first "boxcar block" lettering was
introduced; the lettering wandering around the car side a bit until
they settled on the placement they wanted, and this was the
effective
end of the use of the "$" herald on new cars, although it re-
appeared
with a black background on cabooses about this same time.

Based on this, I'd say that the majority of "sawtooth" cars seen
after
WWII would not have black in the heralds; only old cars not
repainted
since the early thirties still having black heralds. However, I
can't
discount the fact that one of the smaller car shops was still using
black, since it was still in use on cabooses, and certainly enough
steel cars were coming in with black heralds. Photos taken in the
fifties show most wood cars with "open" heralds.

Hope this helps.

Dennis Storzek


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

armprem
 

Jerry,Not to belabor the point,but if the paint is available
commercially,what is to prevent the hobbiest from going to his local paint
store and buying some?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryglow2" <jerryglow@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:46 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match


Unfortunately, not easy. Most of the manufacturers use commercial
formulations not available to or compatible with hobbiests application
equipment.

Jerry

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "armand premo" <armprem@s...> wrote:

How much of a job would it be to have companies add "matching paint"
to the
information supplied with a model?Armand Premo







Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Greenville gondolas (was matches for Champ HG-105)

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 08:10 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Both NYC and P&LE owned Greenville drop-end gondolas... which leads
me to ask, has anyone compiled a roster of original owners of the
Proto 2000 gondolas? I can't find one in my email archives...
Tim,
Try RP CYC #3.
Ed Hawkins


UTLX tank cars.

Arnold van Heyst
 

It's me again.

I have severall UTLX tank cars, for instance the 10,000 gallon type 21
revited tank car by Proto 2000.
Was there also a model of 8,000 gallon?
Did they even existed at all?
When they didn't make a UTLX 8,000 gallon type, how can i make one?

Regards,
Arnold
Netherlands.


Re: Coupler gearbox.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Bruce,

What do you mean with "scale width"?
The width between 2 cars?
How can i make it scale width?

Best regards,
Arnold.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@a...> wrote:

On Sun, November 6, 2005 6:28 am, Arnold wrote:
Sirs,

What is the prototypically correct coupler gearbox for the ARA X-
29,
1924 X-29, and 1937 AAR boxcar?
Kadee #78 perhaps?

Regards,
Arnold
Let me beat Ben to the punch <G> - no dashes in PRR classes (eg.
X29)

As noted, the Accurail box will work. You can also use the Kadee
#78 if
you remove the Red Caboose box. Finally, if you wish to leave the
Red
Caboose box intact, you can use #58 couplers which are a "drop in"
fit,
but that does not give scale width.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Soo Line SS Boxcar

soolinehistory <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry" <jrs060@m...> wrote:

Say Dennis I wonder if you could clear up some misinformation
on the painting of the cars. When did the Soo Line stop
painting the black herald backround on the "Dollar Sign" logo?
I'm thinkin it was in the late 1940's, just before the change
to that awful large "SOO LINE" logo on the steel house cars?
Many ex-Soo Liner's hated the large lettering as I do myself,
but you know we all loved the old "Dollar Sign".
Jerry,

It's hard to say with any authority, as the General Mechanical Office
files that would have the information seem to no longer exist, so all
I can cite is photos, and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the
black from the FCR car.

Builder's photos of the cars show black backgrounds, at least through
1926, and I don't see any reason that there'd be a change before the
beginning of the Great Depression. I have a copy of a nice photo of
one of the 1913 built cars with the new data arrangement and a 1933
scale date, and it has a black background, so repaints done during the
period must have also been done this way.

During the late thirties and through WWII, the railroad was in the
throes of an austerity program, as both the Soo Line and leased
subsidiary Wisconsin Central were in bankruptcy. Use of the "$" herald
with an "open" (car color) background on cabooses is well documented,
but harder to do so on freight cars. It may well be that they just
weren't repainting many freight cars. However, builders photos of all
the new steel AAR boxcars that came from Pullman during the late
thirties and early forties definitely show black backgrounds in the
heralds. This may reflect the lack of any incremental cost difference
on new cars, compared to the more closely accounted for costs in
their own shops.

After WWII, when the Soo began assembling their own cars at the WC
shops in North Fond du Lac, the original run of cars built in 1949 had
heralds without any black. This continued with the "sawtooth" cars
rebuilt with new roofs and underframes in 1950, when the Korean
conflict put the crimp on steel supplies for building new cars, and
again when new car construction resumed in 1951. Midway through the
1951 production is when the first "boxcar block" lettering was
introduced; the lettering wandering around the car side a bit until
they settled on the placement they wanted, and this was the effective
end of the use of the "$" herald on new cars, although it re-appeared
with a black background on cabooses about this same time.

Based on this, I'd say that the majority of "sawtooth" cars seen after
WWII would not have black in the heralds; only old cars not repainted
since the early thirties still having black heralds. However, I can't
discount the fact that one of the smaller car shops was still using
black, since it was still in use on cabooses, and certainly enough
steel cars were coming in with black heralds. Photos taken in the
fifties show most wood cars with "open" heralds.

Hope this helps.

Dennis Storzek


Re: N'ville Aftermath

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I wonder why isn't the ACTUAL time the room will open advertised?
I would guess that Martin opens the sales room when the room is ready and
everything is set up. The stated opening time may be his deadline for being
ready. I was a little surprised myself this year when I wandered in about
2:30 for a preview and found them making sales.

I worked in a hobby shop for a while and I unlocked the doors a little early
if I was ready and there was a customer waiting. I wish more stores worked
that way. I hate arriving at 9:57 and waiting for the clock watching staff
to unlock the door at official opening time.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: Gluing Kadee running boards.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

"Clark Propst" <cepropst@netconx.net> writes-

Has anyone tried this stuff? I friend has had good luck fastening Kadee running boards with it.
Clark Propst
http://wwwtapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=286

This URL does not work for me.

However, I have had excellent luck with the Kadee boards with Barge Cement. A tiny drop on each support, and then just press it on, position it well, clamp it sufficiently that it will not move, let it set for about an hour, and wait 12 hours to handle. If you do it right, you will not visually be aware of the cement at all.

As it sets, I surmise that as the glue slowly sets up, fingers of this fine contact cement are actually being able to mechanically and securely grab some of the fine structural elements of this slippery structure. Surmise, not science, however.

BTW, Barge Cement is NOT Goo; although with a very fresh tube of Goo, the careful modeler may possibly be able to use it in the same way.

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California


Re: Greenville gondolas (was matches for Champ HG-105)

Larry Kline
 

Tim O'Connor asked:
Has anyone compiled a roster of original owners of the Proto 2000
gondolas?

Ed Hawkins replied: Tim, Try RP CYC #3.

Also, there is a Pullman PS-5 article with a roster by Jim Kinkaid in
Rail Model Journal, Sept-99, pp 21-27. There is very little ovrlap
between these two rosters.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Greenville gondolas (was matches for Champ HG-105)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, ERIE, for one (and first).

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:11 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Greenville gondolas (was matches for
Champ HG-105)


Both NYC and P&LE owned Greenville drop-end gondolas... which
leads me to ask, has anyone compiled a roster of original
owners of the Proto 2000 gondolas? I can't find one in my
email archives...

Tim O'Connor



I'm working on a model of a New York Central 52ft AAR
gondola, series
712500-713099, built 1949, using the Proto 2000 kit. I'd
like to paint
and letter it for a car that was shopped and repainted in the mid to
late 1950s.



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Re: Greenville gondolas (was matches for Champ HG-105)

Tim O'Connor
 

Both NYC and P&LE owned Greenville drop-end gondolas... which leads
me to ask, has anyone compiled a roster of original owners of the
Proto 2000 gondolas? I can't find one in my email archives...

Tim O'Connor

I'm working on a model of a New York Central 52ft AAR gondola, series
712500-713099, built 1949, using the Proto 2000 kit. I'd like to
paint and letter it for a car that was shopped and repainted in the
mid to late 1950s.


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 7:12 am, armand premo wrote:
How much of a job would it be to have companies add "matching paint" to
the information supplied with a model?Armand Premo
Armand,

Almost impossible, as has been noted here before. Manufacturers generally
do NOT use hobbiest paints and in many cases use special mixes made up for
a specific project. Therefore, there ain't no stinkin match!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Coupler gearbox.

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 6:28 am, Arnold wrote:
Sirs,

What is the prototypically correct coupler gearbox for the ARA X-29,
1924 X-29, and 1937 AAR boxcar?
Kadee #78 perhaps?

Regards,
Arnold
Let me beat Ben to the punch <G> - no dashes in PRR classes (eg. X29)

As noted, the Accurail box will work. You can also use the Kadee #78 if
you remove the Red Caboose box. Finally, if you wish to leave the Red
Caboose box intact, you can use #58 couplers which are a "drop in" fit,
but that does not give scale width.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

jerryglow2
 

Unfortunately, not easy. Most of the manufacturers use commercial
formulations not available to or compatible with hobbiests application
equipment.

Jerry

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "armand premo" <armprem@s...> wrote:

How much of a job would it be to have companies add "matching paint"
to the
information supplied with a model?Armand Premo

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