Date   

Re: UTLX tank cars.

Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce Smith wrote

If you can't find the model, you can buy any 8k type 21, strip it,
paint it black and use the Champ UTLX decals to letter it.

Urf! If you can find them, Steve Hile made some excellent UTLX decals.
Or perhaps you can persuade Martin to sell you some of his, or maybe
we can prevail on Ted Culotta to do some UTLX decals. The Champ set is
60's era -- minor lettering is absent or "size corrected" to make it
more legible from 3 feet away.


Re: N'ville Aftermath

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Blair wrote:
The only nit I had to pick: I realize schedules change due to
unforseen
circumstances, but Thursday we busted our humps to get back from
picking a
member of the group up from O-Hare in time to be back for the
advertised 4pm
opening of the Sunshine room. . . we got there at 4:05, and
discovered that
it'd been open for a couple of hours already, and at least a
couple of the
cars I'd really wanted to purchase had already been sold out. I
was later
told by a veteran Naperville attendee that it is "normal" for
Martin to open
up the room earlier than advertised. I guess if that's "normal",
then I
wonder why isn't the ACTUAL time the room will open advertised?
As Jim says, Martin opens when he's ready and the time is
unpredictable. Remember, at Naperville we're playing in his sandbox!
From his standpoint, the longer he's open, the more he sells. Your
situation is like being stuck in traffic because of a lane closure
and watching cars zip by on the right, and getting upset when they
squeeze in ahead of you. Understandably so, but from a traffic flow
standpoint it makes no difference - the rate at which cars get
through the restriction is unaffected, regardless of what goes on as
they jockey for position in the que. Order, yes, but rate, no. Same
with Martin's sales. You and I missed out, but others didn't. (I
arrived Thursday afternoon by Amtrak. The train was two hours late,
it was well after four when the hotel van dropped me off and pushing
five by the time I had checked in, registered and assimilated the
news that I had a clinic to present at 8. Several of the kits I
wanted were long gone, the sales room was jam packed, and I wondered
about what would be available for the many registrants who didn't
arrive until Friday!)

Tom Madden


Re: UTLX tank cars.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Well Mr. Smith.......that's very informative you have here.
Are there any stores in the U.S. who sells the decorated UTLX 8,000
by Proto 2000?
I've googled, but nothing to find.
Also, i don't have any experience in building the "X-3" 6,000 gallon
type from Sunshine Models.
Is there someone willing to sell a perfectly build model to me?

Arnold.




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@a...> wrote:

On Sun, November 6, 2005 12:34 pm, Arnold wrote:
It's me again.

I have severall UTLX tank cars, for instance the 10,000 gallon
type 21
revited tank car by Proto 2000.
Was there also a model of 8,000 gallon?
Did they even existed at all?
When they didn't make a UTLX 8,000 gallon type, how can i make
one?

Arnold,

In general, Union Tank Car (UTLX) built many of its own tank cars,
the
X-3. These are available in resin from Sunshine Models in 6,000
gal, two
different 8,000 gal, and a 10,000 gal as well as the just release X-
5
insulated pressure (propane) car. UTL built its own cars as well as
contracting with companies like AC&F. While the Type 21 was an AC&F
design, AC&F built cars for UTL to the X-3 design. However, UTL
acquired
cars in mergers and buyouts and thus ended up with a number of type
21s.
It is extradinarily difficult from the ORER to tell what class a
car is so
you need to work from photos. Life-like has worked with noted tank
car
historians and generally I trust their numbering... so if Life-Like
offers
an 8k gal type 21 lettered UTLX, it most likely had photo
documentation.
If you can't find the model, you can buy any 8k type 21, strip it,
paint
it black and use the Champ UTLX decals to letter it. Watch out for
Intermountain's type 27 UTLX cars. At least some of them are
completely
fictional, and the one I bought had white lettering instead of the
appropriate yellow lettering.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Adhesives

Jim Betz
 

For me Goo just isn't worth the risk. Even a metal to metal
joint that has been allowed to cure in open air for several days
can out gas enough of its solvents to soften and sag the plastic
body put over it after all of that curing. I've even seen cars
that have a significant opening in the body such as a hopper
with 'crawl port' openings in both ends get attacked by Goo
solvents. I've known guys who built a model and used a -small-
amount of Goo to glue down the car weight and then had it sit
dormant and soften the plastic 6 to even 18 months later. Goo
is probably OK on an all metal car - but you won't see me
putting one of those together again.

If you can stand the long cure time Krystal Klear works very
well in places where you would use Goo - or just plain old white
glue - or the yellow version known as Carpenter's glue. And the
white glues have the added advantage that you can alway soak the
car and they will let go. I usually apply them with a tooth pick
to easily get the correct quantity in the correct location.
For styrene to styrene I -always- use Tenax.
For wood to wood my adhesive of choice is CA/ACC.
From time to time I will use epoxy - if I need a lot of strength
and can deal with the lack of flexibility. Take care about the
heat build up that occurs during curing!
For 'slippery' plastics such as Delrin I like to use Krystal
Klear if at all possible (almost always is). If possible I will
rough up the Delrin with sand paper or a file before gluing.
I haven't tried Gorilla or that special form of CA that you
have to keep in the freezer ... but lots of guys swear by them.

One last thing - it used to be important to me to be able to
work fast and I built cars in 4+ hour long 'marathon sessions'.
My approach these days is to do one or two operations and then
set it aside for hours or days. Working in little 1/2 to 1 hour
sessions seems to work better for me - but it does take some
discipline to keep a project moving forward and not let it
get side-lined when I get enthusiastic about some 'new' project ...


Railshops Models

Gene Semon
 

Does Railshops have a presence on the web? I'd like to get a few of
the carbon black hoppers and see what else they may offer.

Gene S.


Re: Coupler Gear Box

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

The good Doctor Smith writes-

The distance between two cars is reffered to as the coupling distance, and
thats another issue entirely <G>!!

It is indeed, and the only coupler combinations that can give you this routinely are the Accumate Protos- which from my measurements are drop-dead accurate in this regard. The use of #58s and #78s require significantly greater coupling distances, although slightly less than the short shank #40s, and a lot less than the #5s.

I believe the exact measurements for all are in Files.

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California


Re: GATX Insulated Tank Cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 7:23 am, Roger Robar wrote:
When where the GATX [#37,000 series] 10,000 Gallon Insulated tank cars
built? They are listed in my 1949 and 1954 ORER's. The Proto 2000 models
look very nice and I assume are very accurate renditions of the prototype.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Roger,

I don't know the specific series, but General American also built their
own tank cars. It is most likely that the cars in the series you cite
were these, and they are distinctively different from the AC&F type 21.
In particular they did not have a side sill, whereas the type 21 has a
channel side sill and the General American cars had a distinctive end
brace. It is possible that they purchased or absorbed some type 21
insulated cars, but you would have to know from photos. Overland models
did a nice version of the GATC built 10k gal insulated car and these show
up on eBay from time to time.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: N'ville atfermath

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@v...>
wrote: Bob's Photos and Mainline Photos were set up in their rooms,
with chairs if you could find an empty one.

I'm not familiar with Mainline, what do they offer? Do they sell
through the mail?

Ed


Re: UTLX tank cars.

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 12:34 pm, Arnold wrote:
It's me again.

I have severall UTLX tank cars, for instance the 10,000 gallon type 21
revited tank car by Proto 2000.
Was there also a model of 8,000 gallon?
Did they even existed at all?
When they didn't make a UTLX 8,000 gallon type, how can i make one?
Arnold,

In general, Union Tank Car (UTLX) built many of its own tank cars, the
X-3. These are available in resin from Sunshine Models in 6,000 gal, two
different 8,000 gal, and a 10,000 gal as well as the just release X-5
insulated pressure (propane) car. UTL built its own cars as well as
contracting with companies like AC&F. While the Type 21 was an AC&F
design, AC&F built cars for UTL to the X-3 design. However, UTL acquired
cars in mergers and buyouts and thus ended up with a number of type 21s.
It is extradinarily difficult from the ORER to tell what class a car is so
you need to work from photos. Life-like has worked with noted tank car
historians and generally I trust their numbering... so if Life-Like offers
an 8k gal type 21 lettered UTLX, it most likely had photo documentation.
If you can't find the model, you can buy any 8k type 21, strip it, paint
it black and use the Champ UTLX decals to letter it. Watch out for
Intermountain's type 27 UTLX cars. At least some of them are completely
fictional, and the one I bought had white lettering instead of the
appropriate yellow lettering.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Coupler gearbox.

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, November 6, 2005 12:07 pm, Arnold wrote:
Bruce,

What do you mean with "scale width"?
The width between 2 cars?
How can i make it scale width?
Arnold,

No, scale width refers to the side to side measurement. The "standard" HO
scale draft gear box in the US is wider than the prototype, which leads to
lots of problems including center sills that are too far apart in order to
match, not enought room on the end of the car for the brake hose, brake
gear and end grabs, and on cars where the ends are particulary visible
(tank cars, hoppers etc) a great fat ugly box out there.

Your mention of the #78, which comes with a scale width box make me think
you were thinking of that issue (as are many of us). If you are looking
for a "Scale head size" that is a drop in replacement in the existing Red
Caboose draft gear box then the #58 is the correct Kadee, and the Accumate
can also fit.

The distance between two cars is reffered to as the coupling distance, and
thats another issue entirely <G>!!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: UTLX tank cars.

Larry Grubb <larry450sl@...>
 

Arnold,
Proto 2000 8,000 gallon Type 21 UTLX tank cars were produced in 6 road numbers as kits and 6 road numbers as ready to run. Single kits were items 21756 & 21759. 4 pack kit was 21758. 6 RTR cars were item 21896. Kits were released January 1998, RTR June 1998.
Larry Grubb

Arnold <mrdata1968@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's me again.

I have severall UTLX tank cars, for instance the 10,000 gallon type 21
revited tank car by Proto 2000.
Was there also a model of 8,000 gallon?
Did they even existed at all?
When they didn't make a UTLX 8,000 gallon type, how can i make one?

Regards,
Arnold
Netherlands.






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Ted's new publications

ed_mines
 

I guess i must be one of the first to get Ted's 2 new publications.

Wow! They are magnificant!

As members of thsi group must know, I have a pretty big photo
collection. I've never seen any of the photos in the calendar although
I've seen similar photos to the Library of Congress prints in the war
time railroads book.

Best $40 I ever spent. I'd subscribe in a minute!

Ed


Re: Soo Line SS Boxcar

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

Thank you Dennis, your expertise and help on this is greatly
appreciated, as many of us love the old Soo Line. Now if we
only could get someone to do the Dalman two-level Andrews
trucks? All the Soo Line, GN, and SAL modelers would be very
happy indeed.

Thanks Again,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <dstorzek@e...> wrote:

Jerry,

It's hard to say with any authority, as the General Mechanical
Office
files that would have the information seem to no longer exist, so
all
I can cite is photos, and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the
black from the FCR car.

Builder's photos of the cars show black backgrounds, at least
through
1926, and I don't see any reason that there'd be a change before the
beginning of the Great Depression. I have a copy of a nice photo of
one of the 1913 built cars with the new data arrangement and a 1933
scale date, and it has a black background, so repaints done during
the
period must have also been done this way.

During the late thirties and through WWII, the railroad was in the
throes of an austerity program, as both the Soo Line and leased
subsidiary Wisconsin Central were in bankruptcy. Use of the "$"
herald
with an "open" (car color) background on cabooses is well
documented,
but harder to do so on freight cars. It may well be that they just
weren't repainting many freight cars. However, builders photos of
all
the new steel AAR boxcars that came from Pullman during the late
thirties and early forties definitely show black backgrounds in the
heralds. This may reflect the lack of any incremental cost
difference
on new cars, compared to the more closely accounted for costs in
their own shops.

After WWII, when the Soo began assembling their own cars at the WC
shops in North Fond du Lac, the original run of cars built in 1949
had
heralds without any black. This continued with the "sawtooth" cars
rebuilt with new roofs and underframes in 1950, when the Korean
conflict put the crimp on steel supplies for building new cars, and
again when new car construction resumed in 1951. Midway through the
1951 production is when the first "boxcar block" lettering was
introduced; the lettering wandering around the car side a bit until
they settled on the placement they wanted, and this was the
effective
end of the use of the "$" herald on new cars, although it re-
appeared
with a black background on cabooses about this same time.

Based on this, I'd say that the majority of "sawtooth" cars seen
after
WWII would not have black in the heralds; only old cars not
repainted
since the early thirties still having black heralds. However, I
can't
discount the fact that one of the smaller car shops was still using
black, since it was still in use on cabooses, and certainly enough
steel cars were coming in with black heralds. Photos taken in the
fifties show most wood cars with "open" heralds.

Hope this helps.

Dennis Storzek


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

armprem
 

Jerry,Not to belabor the point,but if the paint is available
commercially,what is to prevent the hobbiest from going to his local paint
store and buying some?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryglow2" <jerryglow@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:46 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match


Unfortunately, not easy. Most of the manufacturers use commercial
formulations not available to or compatible with hobbiests application
equipment.

Jerry

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "armand premo" <armprem@s...> wrote:

How much of a job would it be to have companies add "matching paint"
to the
information supplied with a model?Armand Premo







Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Greenville gondolas (was matches for Champ HG-105)

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, November 6, 2005, at 08:10 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Both NYC and P&LE owned Greenville drop-end gondolas... which leads
me to ask, has anyone compiled a roster of original owners of the
Proto 2000 gondolas? I can't find one in my email archives...
Tim,
Try RP CYC #3.
Ed Hawkins


UTLX tank cars.

Arnold van Heyst
 

It's me again.

I have severall UTLX tank cars, for instance the 10,000 gallon type 21
revited tank car by Proto 2000.
Was there also a model of 8,000 gallon?
Did they even existed at all?
When they didn't make a UTLX 8,000 gallon type, how can i make one?

Regards,
Arnold
Netherlands.


Re: Coupler gearbox.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Bruce,

What do you mean with "scale width"?
The width between 2 cars?
How can i make it scale width?

Best regards,
Arnold.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@a...> wrote:

On Sun, November 6, 2005 6:28 am, Arnold wrote:
Sirs,

What is the prototypically correct coupler gearbox for the ARA X-
29,
1924 X-29, and 1937 AAR boxcar?
Kadee #78 perhaps?

Regards,
Arnold
Let me beat Ben to the punch <G> - no dashes in PRR classes (eg.
X29)

As noted, the Accurail box will work. You can also use the Kadee
#78 if
you remove the Red Caboose box. Finally, if you wish to leave the
Red
Caboose box intact, you can use #58 couplers which are a "drop in"
fit,
but that does not give scale width.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Soo Line SS Boxcar

soolinehistory <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry" <jrs060@m...> wrote:

Say Dennis I wonder if you could clear up some misinformation
on the painting of the cars. When did the Soo Line stop
painting the black herald backround on the "Dollar Sign" logo?
I'm thinkin it was in the late 1940's, just before the change
to that awful large "SOO LINE" logo on the steel house cars?
Many ex-Soo Liner's hated the large lettering as I do myself,
but you know we all loved the old "Dollar Sign".
Jerry,

It's hard to say with any authority, as the General Mechanical Office
files that would have the information seem to no longer exist, so all
I can cite is photos, and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the
black from the FCR car.

Builder's photos of the cars show black backgrounds, at least through
1926, and I don't see any reason that there'd be a change before the
beginning of the Great Depression. I have a copy of a nice photo of
one of the 1913 built cars with the new data arrangement and a 1933
scale date, and it has a black background, so repaints done during the
period must have also been done this way.

During the late thirties and through WWII, the railroad was in the
throes of an austerity program, as both the Soo Line and leased
subsidiary Wisconsin Central were in bankruptcy. Use of the "$" herald
with an "open" (car color) background on cabooses is well documented,
but harder to do so on freight cars. It may well be that they just
weren't repainting many freight cars. However, builders photos of all
the new steel AAR boxcars that came from Pullman during the late
thirties and early forties definitely show black backgrounds in the
heralds. This may reflect the lack of any incremental cost difference
on new cars, compared to the more closely accounted for costs in
their own shops.

After WWII, when the Soo began assembling their own cars at the WC
shops in North Fond du Lac, the original run of cars built in 1949 had
heralds without any black. This continued with the "sawtooth" cars
rebuilt with new roofs and underframes in 1950, when the Korean
conflict put the crimp on steel supplies for building new cars, and
again when new car construction resumed in 1951. Midway through the
1951 production is when the first "boxcar block" lettering was
introduced; the lettering wandering around the car side a bit until
they settled on the placement they wanted, and this was the effective
end of the use of the "$" herald on new cars, although it re-appeared
with a black background on cabooses about this same time.

Based on this, I'd say that the majority of "sawtooth" cars seen after
WWII would not have black in the heralds; only old cars not repainted
since the early thirties still having black heralds. However, I can't
discount the fact that one of the smaller car shops was still using
black, since it was still in use on cabooses, and certainly enough
steel cars were coming in with black heralds. Photos taken in the
fifties show most wood cars with "open" heralds.

Hope this helps.

Dennis Storzek


Re: N'ville Aftermath

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I wonder why isn't the ACTUAL time the room will open advertised?
I would guess that Martin opens the sales room when the room is ready and
everything is set up. The stated opening time may be his deadline for being
ready. I was a little surprised myself this year when I wandered in about
2:30 for a preview and found them making sales.

I worked in a hobby shop for a while and I unlocked the doors a little early
if I was ready and there was a customer waiting. I wish more stores worked
that way. I hate arriving at 9:57 and waiting for the clock watching staff
to unlock the door at official opening time.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: Gluing Kadee running boards.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

"Clark Propst" <cepropst@netconx.net> writes-

Has anyone tried this stuff? I friend has had good luck fastening Kadee running boards with it.
Clark Propst
http://wwwtapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=286

This URL does not work for me.

However, I have had excellent luck with the Kadee boards with Barge Cement. A tiny drop on each support, and then just press it on, position it well, clamp it sufficiently that it will not move, let it set for about an hour, and wait 12 hours to handle. If you do it right, you will not visually be aware of the cement at all.

As it sets, I surmise that as the glue slowly sets up, fingers of this fine contact cement are actually being able to mechanically and securely grab some of the fine structural elements of this slippery structure. Surmise, not science, however.

BTW, Barge Cement is NOT Goo; although with a very fresh tube of Goo, the careful modeler may possibly be able to use it in the same way.

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California

141441 - 141460 of 188713