Date   

Re: N'ville atfermath

Brian Termunde
 

In a message dated 11/7/2005 11:37:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
shawn.beckert@disney.com writes:

The only downside of the trip was Chicago itself - people there drive worse
than in LA (is that possible?).


---> Sure...come to Utah! I understand that they were just as bad during the
Steam Era (in a hopeless attempt to include something that is vaguely on
topic! <G>)


Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


ATSF Stock cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/47909.htm

Did I miss something? What's with the yellow on the doors?

SGL


Re: Mainline Photos

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob, just to correct the record, Robert Liljestrand is not a
photographer -- he is a merchant, and he has purchased several
wonderful collections and made them available to us. Michael is
a very good photographer and prints background information about
each photo on his prints. In Bob's case we're lucky to know the
year and/or location of the photograph, and in some cases, the
photographer. About 67% of the photos I've bought from him over
the years have no identification whatever.

Tim O'Connor

At 09:11 AM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
Mainline Photos (J. Michael Gruber) was down in the vendor room on
Saturday. He has a lot of photos, but nowhere near as many as
Bob. There is no connection between the two aside from both being
photographers and sellers of photos. Mainline sells a lot of
Pullman passenger and PRR & NYC passenger car photos, along with a
lot of steam locomotive and some freight photos. Freight photos are
not the centerpiece but he has some nice ones.


Kitbashed Athearn (was:Red Ball 65 ft. gon)

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

I kitbashed a 65' gon from Athearns many years ago - before I learned
that mill gons were not only longer, but also narrower.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
ed_mines
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:07 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Red Ball 65 ft. gon

Red Ball had a pretty nice mill gon with the ribs very far apart.

The size of the ribs is pretty small, particularly compared to the
Athearn car which has rivets the size of Ho scale tennis balls.

I remember some guy did a real nice job of kit bashing those Athearn
clunkers. I have about a dozen Athearn gon shells somewhere.

Ed








Yahoo! Groups Links


Mainline Photos

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

Mainline Photos (J. Michael Gruber) was down in the vendor room on Saturday. He has a lot of photos, but nowhere near as many as Bob. There is no connection between the two aside from both being photographers and sellers of photos. Mainline sells a lot of Pullman passenger and PRR & NYC passenger car photos, along with a lot of steam locomotive and some freight photos. Freight photos are not the centerpiece but he has some nice ones.


At 02:36 AM 11/7/2005, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:25:23 -0800
From: "Jim and Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Re: N'ville atfermath

Ed, Mainline's room was just down the hall from Bob's. There may be some
connection. Each of them had a sign telling where the other was.
Mainline had a smaller selection. He didn't have the specific item I was
looking for so I didn't stay to browse and can't tell you what he had to
offer.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
Bob Webber


Re: Soo Line SS Boxcar

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "buchwaldfam" <duff@g...> wrote:

Dennis,
Thanks for the great explanation! I have two questions.
First, you mention that the 1926 cars had corrugated ends.
Were these 7/8 ends like the Accurail cars have?
Unfortunately, no, they are 7 / 7.

Also, were the Soo and the Northern Pacific arched roofs from
the same supplier? I was able to use Details West Northern Pacific
arched roofs by cutting one panel from one end, and grafting it onto
the opposite end, then narrowing the roof at the centerline. The Soo
roof has one fewer cap seams than the NP roof, and by narrowing it at
the centerline, the new center seam is easy to hide under the roof walk.
They appear to be. I don't know specifically what the NP used. The Soo was a big user of Chicago-Cleveland Co. roofing products. Surviving cars from the pre-WW I orders have either the "Superior Outside Metal Roof" (with tubular seam caps) or the "Perfection Flexible Outside Metal Roof" (with flat seam caps). These are both sheet metal roof systems that need to be installed over a wood roof. The cars built in the late 1920 all had the "Zenith" roof, IIRC (can't find my reference for the name.) This was a sheet metal roof meant to cover a wood arch roof. The panels (without pressings) ran continuous from one side of the car to the other, the ends being flanged down and nailed to the fascia. The seams were covered with tubular caps that terminated in iron castings screwed to the fascia. The old Central Valley stockcar roof (I assume this is what you were able to get from DA) was a good model of this, doing the cast clamps rather well. This roof is also usable for modeling a Soo line milk car.

I went to upload some photos to the Files area, and see that it's full. I'll have to get logged on to the STMPH list, but won't get to that for a bit.

By the way, I just noticed that the 1926 cars DO NOT have the Dalman two level trucks, but rather standard looking Andrews trucks.


Dennis Storzek
Big Rock, IL


Subject: Re: Re: N'ville Aftermath

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

It seems to me that there is a simple, straightforward and obvious cure to his predicament. Ask. But then, he'd have little time to make those cars and kits. But, if he were to send out the pre-meet agenda with a survey, it might help.

The vendor room was also open early, those of us who have been there before and were able to get there (after being jarred awake at 5 by the fire alarm, some may have slept a little later), were able to find some things in a fairly peaceful scene. One thing I would have liked in some of the vendors area would be chairs in the aisles - which the former format allowed. I realize this years format made that somewhat problematical. But when going through 8 tub files of photo it would have helped.

At 09:15 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
Every year, Martin bemoans his inability to outguess the crowd
as to what will be hot. This year was no exception. You can be quite
sure he would bring WAY more of the hot new items if he knew which ones
they were.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
Bob Webber


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

Bruce Smith
 

On Mon, November 7, 2005 6:16 am, armand premo wrote:
I have been able to go to hardware stores with a paint sample and have
it mixed and matched.in small quantities.................Not 50
gallons,but
enough to meet my needs.Why pay $3 plus for 2 ounces?I think we have
become accustomed to use only "hobby"paint.Armand Premo
Armand,

Of course you can, but I remind you that THAT was not what you were
advocating. You were suggesting the the paint used on mass produced
models could be bought at a "paint store"... and the bottom line is that
it cannot. Feel free to mix and match! Sounds like a good solution to
me.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Railshops Models

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Gene S. wroe:

Does Railshops have a presence on the web? I'd like to get a few of
the carbon black hoppers and see what else they may offer.

==================================================


I also did a Google search and a scan over the links at the NMRA Internet
directory. I came up with no hits on either account. It makes me wonder if
that is the real name of the company, or if the note taker mixed things up
between photos, and note taking, and talking to others and, drooling over
the next model....I know I've jotted details down wrong in overwhelming
situations.

Has anyone heard of Railshops before the latest N'ville meet? Are there any
other models they have announced?

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

armprem
 

I have been able to go to hardware stores with a paint sample and have
it mixed and matched.in small quantities.................Not 50 gallons,but
enough to meet my needs.Why pay $3 plus for 2 ounces?I think we have become
accustomed to use only "hobby"paint.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@auburn.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match


On Sun, November 6, 2005 1:10 pm, armand premo wrote:
Jerry,Not to belabor the point,but if the paint is available
commercially,what is to prevent the hobbiest from going to his local
paint store and buying some?Armand Premo

What store? This ain't Sherwin Williams! By commercial Jerry meant that
the paint is ONLY available to other businesses, not private
individuals... unless you buy your model paint in 50 gallon drums?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn AL





Yahoo! Groups Links






Western Railway of Albama BOX Cars in 1950?

matt
 

Hi,

Can anyone help me and tell me what type of box cars the Western
Railway of Alabama were using in 1950?

thanks for your time

MATT Strickland


sawtooth car variations was Re: Soo Line SS Boxcar

jerryglow2
 

Anyone know if there's a possibility he'll produce it as MP (actually
IGN & StLB&M) versions since he did a kitbash article in RMC years ago
to do these cars using the then available Storzak kit?

Jerry Glow


Re: N'ville Aftermath

jerryglow2
 

Another good reason for a web presence or some way of polling those
for their wants like Al Westerfield does.

Jerry Glow


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@s...>
wrote:
Every year, Martin bemoans his inability to outguess the
crowd
as to what will be hot. This year was no exception. You can be quite
sure he would bring WAY more of the hot new items if he knew which
ones
they were.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Eastern Car Works Trucks was: NC&StL flat car (Tichy) trucks

artrich999@...
 

Cape Line trucks are the old M. Dale Newton Red Ball line.

---
Art Richardson
Clinton, MS


Re: Fortunes

Peter Weiglin
 

Greg Martin asked:

Okay next question... How do you make a small fortune in the Model Railroad hobby Industry?
= = =

That's easy -- you start with a LARGE fortune.

Peter Weiglin


Re: Equipment registers

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

The effective date for submissions was approximately 60 days prior to
the cover date depending on which road was submitting the information,
therefore that would be October 31, 1949 for the PRR or November 1, 1949
for the NYC. I have found that this lag between the information cut-off
date and the quarterly cover date to hold true for all the registers
that I have on the shelf. You will find that the ORER's effective date,
printed on the left side of the cover, would be the first of the month,
but the issue date was nine days later on the tenth of the month (for
example: Effective Date - January 1, 1950; Issue Date - January 10, 1950).

As Gregg had stated, there had to be enough time to get the information
into the agent's hands, do the proofing and set up, typeset the book,
then print it. Then it had to be disseminated to those whose work was
proscribed by the information it contained.

In regard to Ian's remark that some railroads dated their submissions,
he is correct, so you may add the PRR to the list of those that did.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Ian Cranstone wrote:

On 1-Nov-05, at 2:48 PM, ajfergusonca wrote:



I have a question that should have a simple answer. The equipment
registers are referred to as July 1958 for example. What was the
cutoff date for new data?


There was a time when some of the large entries would provide an actual
effective date for their roster (I believe the New York Central system
did so), and I seem to recall that generally their effective date was
about a month before the publication date of the issue. The shortlines
and many private owners could go months or years between updates,
especially if they had no equipment to report (or very small fleets).

Of course, at that point there was also an effort to include cars on
order that were expected to arrive before the cover date of the issue
as well.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net





Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Eastern Car Works Trucks was: NC&StL flat car (Tichy) trucks

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Richard,

It was my impression that John Green's recent reproduction of the two
level Dalman trucks were from new tooling replicating the Cape Line
Two-level Dalman #T-24. John had told me that he had obtained the
rights to the Cape Line trucks from the owner after Ertel sold them back
to them.

Was there a connection between the line of Cape Line trucks and those
from the M. Dale Newton Red Ball Line?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@ udel.edu


Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Oct 25, 2005, at 1:54 PM, James F. Brewer wrote:



Phil,

You might want to check out Bethlehem Car Works; they have a version
of the
Dalman 2 level truck cast in a metal alloy. See:

http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Kit_Bits/index.html#Trucks

The Bethlehem trucks are the latest in several incarnations of the old
(VERY old) Red Ball trucks, made from tooling that dates back to the
early 1940s. That in itself isn't a bad thing, of course, and many of
those antiques are still the only way to model a variety of prototype
trucks in HO scale. But the Bethelehem/ex-Red Ball Dalman two level
represents a very odd version of the Dalman design. I'm sure there was
a prototype for it it's hardly likely that M. Dale Newton invented it
out of thin air but if so, I've never seen a single example. And the
sideframe configuration is so unlike the Dalman trucks that were widely
used in the 1920s and early '30s as to be virtually useless. To model
the trucks under the NC&StL flat cars, or any other common trucks of
Dalman design, Eastern Car Works is still the only game in town.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Car Builder Cyclopedias

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Dick,

Here are some additional corrections:

Rhbale@aol.com wrote:

Although this list of Car and Loco Builders Cyc owners is about five years
old, it may still be of some value.

Car Builders Dictionary/Cyclopedia
==================================
1879/81 1st edition Dick Bale (reprint), Robert L. Harris (1949 reprint),
Kyle Wyatt (Dover reprint, orig. reprinted in 1881)
1884/88 2nd edition Robert L. Harris (1971 reprint), Al Westerfield (1888),
Kyle Wyatt (Gregg reprint, the orig. 1888 was itself a
reprint of the 1884 edition)
1895/98
1903 4th edition Tony Thompson, Al Westerfield
1906 5th edition Robert L. Harris, Richard Hendrickson, Dave Nelson,
Tony Thompson, Al Westerfield, Kyle Wyatt (Gregg
reprint)
Add me to this listing (1906 5th Edition Gregg Reprint)!

1909 6th edition Byron Rose, Kyle Wyatt
1912 7th edition Robert L. Harris, Kyle Wyatt
1916 8th edition Byron Rose, Al Westerfield, Kyle Wyatt
1919 9th edition Dick Bale, Robert L. Harris, Al Westerfield, Kyle Wyatt
1922 10th edition Richard Hendrickson, Dave Nelson, Max S. Robin,
Al Westerfield
Add me to this listing (1922 10th Edition)!

1925 11th edition Al Westerfield, Chuck Yungkurth
1928 12th edition Dave Nelson, Tony Thompson
1931 13th edition Dick Bale, Dave Nelson, Max S. Robin, Guy Wilber
Add me to this listing (1931 13th edition)!

1937 14th edition brockm@palmnet.net, Richard Hendrickson, Dave Nelson,
Max S. Robin, Guy Wilber
Add me to this listing (1937 14th Edition)!

1940 15th edition Dick Bale, Bob Bowes (reprint), Ed Dabler (reprint),
Richard Hendrickson, Max S. Robin, Tony Thompson
(Kalmbach), Chuck Yungkurth
Add me to this listing (1940 15th Edition - Kalmbach Reprint)!

1943 16th edition Ed Dabler, Dave Nelson, Max S. Robin, Tony Thompson,
Guy Wilber, mhrreast@juno.com
Add me to this listing (1943 16th Edition)!

1946 17th edition Dick Bale, Ed Dabler, Richard Hendrickson, Dave Nelson,
Max S. Robin, Stafford Swain, Tony Thompson,
Guy Wilber, Chuck Yungkurth
Add me to this listing (1946 17th Edition)!

1949-51 18th edition Bob Bowes, Ian Cranstone, Max S. Robin, Tony Thompson,
Guy Wilber
Add me to this listing (1946-51 18th Edition)!

1953 19th edition Dick Bale, Bob Bowes, brockm@palmnet.net, Ed Dabler,
Dave Nelson, Max S. Robin, Bill Schneider,
Stafford Swain (Canadian edition), georgeloop@juno.com,
Tony Thompson, Chuck Yungkurth
Add me to this listing (1953 19th Edition)!

1957 20th edition Bob Bowes, Jim Eager, GollerMH@corning.com,
Chuck Yungkurth
Add me to this listing (1957 20th Edition)!

1961 21st edition Ed Dabler, Randall Hano, Dave Nelson, Tony Thompson,
Chuck Yungkurth, mhrreast@juno.com
Add me to this listing (1961 21st Edition)!


Locomotive Cyclopedia
=====================
1919 5th edition Stafford Swain, Chuck Yungkurth
1925 7th edition brockm@palmnet.net, Dave Nelson
1930 9th edition Max S. Robin (Gregg reprint), Byron Rose
1941 11th edition brockm@palmnet.net, GollerMH@corning.com,
Stafford Swain, Max S. Robin (Kalmbach reprint)
1947 Chuck Yungkurth
Add me to this listing (1947 13th Edition)!

1950/52 14th edition Bob Bowes, Stafford Swain
1956 15th edition Byron Rose

Car and Locomotive Cyclopedia
=============================
1966 1st edition Bob Bowes, Ian Cranstone, Jim Eager, Bill Schneider
Add me to this listing (1966 1st edition)!

1970 2nd edition Dick Bale, Jim Eager
1974 3rd edition Ian Cranstone, Larry Goss, Bill Schneider,
Mike Shylanski
1980 4th edition Byron Rose
1984 5th edition Dick Bale, Ian Cranstone, Chuck Yungkurth
GollerMH@corning.com

REM
===
1945 Dave Nelson

Official Register of Passenger Car Equipment
============================================
Mar 1943 1st edition Byron Rose
Jan 1960 25th edition Terry Link
Jan 1961 26th edition Byron Rose
Mar 1964 29th edition Terry Link
Add me to this listing for the following editions:

March 1963 28th Edition
March 1964 29th Edition
March 1965 30th Edition
March 1966 31st Edition
March 1967 32nd Edition
March 1968 33rd Edition
March 1970 35th Edition

Miscellaneous
=============
Reprint 100 years of freight cars (Simmons Boardman) GollerMH@corning.com

Rules Governing the Loading of Commodities
On Open Top Cars - AAR - March 1, 1945 Ted Larson

"Condensed List of Closed, Open and
Stock Cars" from April, 1973 Byron Rose
Add me to the Miscellaneous listing and add the following:

Rules Governing The Loading of Machinery On Open Top Cars, AAR Pamphlet
No. MD-2, Effective 2-1-1951

Rules Governing The Loading Of Pipe On Open Top Cars, AAR Pamphlet No.
MD-4, Effective 6-15-1951

Paul N. Andreoli us015998@mindspring.com
Dick Bale RailNews@aol.com
Bob Bowes rib@ccia.st-thomas.on.ca
Chris Butts Flange42@aol.com
Ian Cranstone lamontc@magi.com
Thomas Cobb tecobb@tenet.edu
Tom Cockle caltcc@humboldt1.com
Ed Dabler RRFANEd@aol.com
Drew Dubler drucifer@worldnet.att.net
Jim Eager jeager@visionol.net
Calvin Everitt CEveritt@email.msn.com
Clare Gilbert Cgilbert@Sylvan.isp.on.ca
Larry Goss lgoss@wolnet.com
Steve Haas 76416.1340@Compuserve.Com
Randall Hano rlhano@worldnet.att.net
Robert L. Harris rlhjr@bellsouth.net
Richard Hendrickson hendricr@sonoma.edu
David Holden deholden@csi.com
Richard Hosker richard@sunny16.photo.tntech.edu
Richard Hovey mrictv@jetnetinc.net
Tom Jelinek Bx39crle@aol.com
Bob Johnson rjohnson@capslock.net
Seth Lakin s_lakin@hotmail.com
Ted Larson mhrreast@juno.com
Randy Lee mrgmag@msn.com
Terry Link TRLINK@netcom.ca
Peter Martin martinpe@kns.net
Jim Matthews jmatthew@wncwabash.com
Jerry Michels Asychis@aol.com
Dave Nelson muskoka@ix.netcom.com
Art O'Toole aotoole@exis.net
Russ Pinchbeck russell.pinchbeck@canada.cdev.com
John Riddell jriddell@interlog.com
Max S. Robin m_robin@cheatriver.com
Byron Rose byronrose@juno.com
Darrell W. Sawyer doghead@gte.net
Bill Schneider bill@www.branchline-trains.com
Robert Schoenberg robs@internexus.net
Mike Shylanski shylansk@erols.com
Jim Sier jsier@gte.net
John Slean slean@idirect.com
Edward Sommer ejs@mfg.sgi.com
Tom Stolte mlw636@lvnworth.com
Stafford Swain sswain@total.net
Tony Thompson thompson@signaturepress.com
Earl Tuson etuson@dpi-bits.com
Michael Watnoski frestate@erols.com
Al Westerfield westerfield@multipro.com
Guy Wilber Guycwilber@aol.com
Alan Winston awinston@scn.org
C. Jackson Wyatt III cjwyatt@wavegate.com
Kyle Wyatt KyleWyatt@aol.com
Chuck Yungkurth RAILDATA@aol.com
Tom Olsen tmolsen@udel.edu
Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
tmolsen@udel.edu
(302) 738-4292


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

ljack70117@...
 

On Nov 6, 2005, at 11:44 PM, tgregmrtn@aol.com wrote:

Then Larry comments...

"Point of interest. Con-Cor had their Budd cars made over seas. But their
paint they used on them was made in Southern California. What do you make of
that.?
Thank you
Larry Jackman"

Well, if it is in fact true then the " hazardous chemicals" are flowing the
opposite direction which is likely much easier, and the point is where can we
buy it off the shelf Larry? CON-COR to my recollection doesn't offer a line
of Railroad paints for the industry... The demand doesn't warrant the risk.

The real question is why can't we supply companies with color matches of
over the counter products that match what the industry is try to paint their
products. This would move us towards the best of both worlds.

Greg Martin
I have the name of the company that made the con-Cor paint. But as you noted they only sell it in 5 gallon or larger lots. I was going to use it on a S Scale project that fell trough.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
I wish the buck stopped here as I could use a few


Re: P2K 50' SSW 20000 - 20094 series paint match

ljack70117@...
 

On Nov 6, 2005, at 9:45 PM, tgregmrtn@aol.com wrote:


Armand Premo writes:

"Jerry,Not to belabor the point, but if the paint is available
commercially,
what is to prevent the hobbyist from going to his local paint
store and
buying some? Armand Premo"


Think of how his one would work... I need a ¾ oz. bottle of Life
like SP or
NYC/P&LE Freight car color. Life Like/Walthers (or Branchline/
Athearn/Atlas
or anyone) now goes to China and develops a complete new line of
paint from a
foreign country into the U. S. A. through customs(and the EPA) to
sell in
Hobby Shops devoted to Trains or via E_commerce or mail order just to
accommodate a short/nearly limited run of freight cars...

Okay next question... How do you make a small fortune in the Model
Railroad
hobby Industry?

Greg Martin
Point of interest. Con-Cor had their Budd cars made over seas. But
their paint they used on them was made in Southern California. What
do you make of that.?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end to end,
someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them.

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