Date   

Re: Placing rivets

Tim O'Connor
 

I see... so what is the template made of? It must be very flexible,
but also totally resistant to adhesives, and very very thin (.010?)
Is that true?

If so, I could tape down the template, and glue .010 styrene bits
in the holes. Then run an Xacto across the template, shaving the
"rivets" down to the thickness of the template. Then remove the
template and wash with Tenax per Andy Carlson's description,
to "melt" the tiny styrene cylinders into the shape of rivets.

Is that how you use it?

Tim O.

Tim,
The goal here is to space the rivet_s_ evenly. A common problem with
airplanes and railroad equipment. Was that your question?


RI PS-1

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Mark Heiden wants to know the following:
Rock Island 27350-27849, 500 40ft PS-1 boxcars, built 1963. A prototype photo of RI 27560 is at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ri/ri27560.jpg

I'd like to know the following:

1) What sort of trucks did these cars ride on?

2) What kind of running boards did these cars have?

3) How were they painted (eg-black ends and roof, unpainted roof, etc)?

4) What is a good paint and decal match for these cars?

Mike Brock


Re: Placing rivets

Manfred Lorenz
 

Tim,

The goal here is to space the rivet_s_ evenly. A common problem with
airplanes and railroad equipment. Was that your question?

It is not about application of singles.

But that makes me think: If a template with evenly spaced holes were
used one could fill those with a liquid rivet compound (white glue
diluted to a certain degree) to the top, wait until semi liquid and
lift off. Followed by a part melt down to form the rounded dome.
There is a kit that accomplishes this with a syringe and squeeze
bottles.

Manfred

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Manfred

I don't get it... how do you place a single rivet using a large
template?

Tim O.


Placing rivets is probably as important as making them. The
aircraft
modelers use this tool:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ25&P=0

Manfred


Re: Tank car dome from Detail Associates

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Tim;
I started one, but got disheartened when I tried to paste on those
alternating rivets where the interior tank heads were located. Too
difficult for me. I wish I had the talent.

There are several bashes that look more do-able to me. I am in the
middle of bashing an Athearn 3-dome into something like a STCC car that
appeared in Mainline Modeler back in the 90's. It is quite do-able, and
about the only thing that looks like the Athearn car.

I am also bashing some other classes of tank car from the P2K, IM and RC
cars. I would really like to do a good job on a couple early acid cars,
but also an ICC 103C-W. I have also bashed a Type 21 with a smaller
dome, as an OESX car, plus I would also like to do a later UTLX car like
Mont Switzer did so well for MM. They are all reasonable projects, for
somebody at my level of skill.

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 5:22 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tank car dome from Detail Associates


Anyone tried to do a multidome tank-bash from an 8k Type 21
or 8k Type 27? The additional domes could be larger or smaller
or two different sizes...

Tim O.





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Question about a RI PS-1 box car

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Mark Heiden has a question about a car that is out of our time period. I'm going to permit it's entry into discussion but only with regard to this one car series and discussion will not be allowed to extend to others. Thanks.

Mike Brock
STMFC Head Judge

From Mark:

I'm looking for
some information about an order of Rock Island 40ft PS-1 boxcars that
was built in 1963. The cars are undoubtedly steam-era: 40ft long,
running boards, friction bearing trucks, etc. The Rock received 2300 PS-1s like this between 1960 and 1965.


Re: PS -1 BOX Cars

SamClarke
 

Hello Garth,

The 50 foot PS-1 with 8 foot door opening is, more or less, still on our
"possible" future project list, which changes all the time. Doing this car
would require a new body and underframe. The underframe is a rather
complicated mold which takes a great deal of tooling time. The underframe of
the 8 foot door 50 foot PS-1s is like the 40 foot PS-1s (bolsters, cross
beams, and cross bearers) and not like the more common 9 and 15 foot door
PS-1s.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PS -1 BOX Cars


Sam,

I keep hoping you will give us the 50' single 8' door cars. Lots of
roads had these (including the WP and TS), and nobody has ever offered
them in HO. IIRC, this car was originally listed in your future
projects, but seems to have disappeared.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

mail@kadee.com wrote:

Thanks, Tim O'Connor,

... Unfortunately, due to a continuing changing web site we no longer
have as
much information about the PS-1 box cars posted as we use to.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products








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NATX tank car photos posted

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

I photographed that tank car at Steamtown in August 1997 and have just
uploaded six scans to the STMFPH <Files> section. They are in a folder
titled "NATX 4753 Tank Car". The link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/NATX%20%204753%20Tank%20Car/

Tom Madden


Re: Tank Cars

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Kevin;
Thanks for that great scan!

Tom;
I agree with Bruce, and Kevin's scan indicates it is almost certainly an
early GATC product, and the bolsters, tank supports, angled draft gear
support brackets and all support that conclusion. GATC made lots of
tanks for NATC, which seems to have maintained the biggest oddball fleet
of any of the owners/lessors.

I don't know if there is a formal designation for this "model" of tank
car, but it is the one I associate with the group that immediately
precedes the Type 30, which shares a lot of the same features.

The parallelogram logo was a later addition, if I remember right. This
car does not appear in my 1964 ORER, either, but that low number series
tended to accumulate 2-compartment and 3-compartment cars. It may have
been an add-on through purchase, or perhaps a re-numbering after
expiration of a lease?

The single safety valves on each dome are interesting, as are the
unexplained rivets on the tank. I suspect this tank was created for
some odd commodity that is not that volatile, like ink, special
lubricating oil, or something like that. Lessors sometimes dictated the
nature of equipment like heating coils, vents and valves, or insulation.
The transverse mounting of the reservoir is also interesting.

There is nothing that resembles this car in model form. The tank is
very small, and being riveted, would require a big scratchbuilding
effort. The underframe vaguely resembles those on the Athearn and
Walthers tanks, which are exceedingly crude. The newer Overland radial
course GATC tank cars have some similarities, but are earlier GATC
products. The WA Drake car is a newer Type 30, if I remember correctly.

I hope this helps.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas M. Olsen
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 10:48 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Tank Cars

Eldon,

The car is riveted, has wooden running boards, and has the parallelogram

with the name within on the side of the tank. As I do not have the
capacity to make scans I can not at this time send you one. The tank
also has a single long running board to service the tank domes. The
photo is a 3/4 wedge shot taken from the end corner looking up so the
built date is almost illegible, but appears ?? to be, perhaps, either
2-25 or 8-25!

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Gatwood, Elden wrote:

Tom;
I do not have access to that document, but is this a riveted, or welded
car? Does it have wooden or steel running boards? NATX had lots of
oddball cars, but two-compartment cars are rare, nonetheless.

It sounds like one of the Pennzoil cars they had for
additives/specialty
refinery products. The decent load capacity with low liquid volume
makes one suspect it was a car for something very heavy, like auto gas
"lead", or other heavy industrial liquids.

Is the logo the parallelogram on the side of the tank, or the smaller
name?

Thanks,

Elden


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas M. Olsen
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:12 PM
To: Steam Freight Car List
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Tank Cars

List,

While we are on the subject of tank cars, I have a question about tank
car that needs some identity. Steamtown in Scranton has a two
compartment tank car lettered NATX 4750. A photo of this car appeared
in the October 2005 issue of the NMRA "ScaleRails on page 31. On what
appears to be the "B" end of the car, there is a capacity of 4577
gallons stenciled. On the sid it shows a Capacity of 80000 pounds,
with

a Light Weight of 37800 pounds. The lettering and the North American
rectangular logo appears to be original as the car is in deplorable
condition and has not been restored. It also looks like it is equipped
with Barber spring-plankless solid bearing trucks. To prevent anyone
climbing on the car the National Park Service has plated over the
stirrup steps at all four corners.

Can anyone identify this car and know anything of it's history? My
ORER's only date back to 1949 and do not show this particular car
number

in the North American listings.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu





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Re: Placing rivets

Tim O'Connor
 

Manfred

I don't get it... how do you place a single rivet using a large template?

Tim O.

Placing rivets is probably as important as making them. The aircraft
modelers use this tool:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ25&P=0

Manfred








Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Placing rivets

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Nov 9, 2005, at 9:34 AM, Manfred Lorenz wrote:

Placing rivets is probably as important as making them. The aircraft
modelers use this tool:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ25&P=0
I would bet that the best tool for the brass rivets on posts that you and Dennis have referred to would be a good milling machine with an Albrecht keyless chuck for the very small drills. A digital readout would make this almost obscenely easy except for the cost of the rivets. I am going to inquire about a large scale purchase as these things are perfect for some applications.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Placing rivets

Manfred Lorenz
 

Placing rivets is probably as important as making them. The aircraft
modelers use this tool:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ25&P=0

Manfred


Re: Rivet size, rivet source

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:

On Nov 8, 2005, at 9:33 AM, soolinehistory wrote:

I've found
a source in Germany that has brass rivets with 0.3mm heads on
0.2mm
shanks; that's .012" heads on .008 shanks, but that means you
need to
deal with a #90 drill or thereabouts. They will fall straight
through
a hole drilled with a #80 drill. You don't want to ask the
price :-(
Dennis:

I'll bite - what's the price and where can they be had? How about
the
other brass rivets you mentioned (or are these one and the same)?
Ted,

These are offered by Fohrmann at Euro 6.50 ($7.70) incl. 16% VAT per
40 rivets. So send over your nuggets!

http://www.fohrmann.com/e/shop/art/6681.htm

Manfred


Re: CGW "PS-Zero" Boxcar Article (was PS-1 Boxcars)

Thomas Baker
 

Those CGW 50-footers are interesting cars. I think that the IH was not 10'6" but 10' 5" if memory serves me correctly. Of course, I cannot imagine that the difference would be significant in any of the scales commonly modeled, certainly not in N or HO, possibly in O. By the way, Clark, I have a photo of one of the cars, sitting at Oelwein back about 1966 or 67. Although the lettering had faded, one can still see where it was as well as the placement of the "Corn Belt Route" emblem. Clark, if you are interested, I'll have a print made up for you.

Tom

________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Clark Propst
Sent: Tue 11/8/2005 8:46 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] CGW "PS-Zero" Boxcar Article (was PS-1 Boxcars)



The CGW Pullman built 50' cars with the so called PS 0 ends were 10' 6" IH and had centered 7 panel superior doors. I showed a Sidney Wheeler photo to Ted. He really liked the car. Whether he will ever make a model for sale remains to be seen. Some of Stan's models are not up to the standards of some on this list, but they are a way to get a reasonable model of a particular car. Stan added his 4/5 ends and accurail? doors to a BLT 50' single door box car. I built one for a friend and a 40 footer for myself http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/propst/cgw91070main.html The 50' cars were delivered in bcr with road name and Cornbelt herald. Later repaints were maroon with gold reporting marks and numbers. A few cars received DF equipment and were maroon with large DF in gold and a Lucky Strike emblem. I would suggest Gene Green's Morning Sun CGW equipment 'color book'. Gene's roster notes and captions are the best of any of the freight car 'color books' I've seen.
Hope this helps,
Clark Propst







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Tank Cars

Bruce Smith
 

"Thomas M. Olsen" <tmolsen@UDel.Edu> wrote:

While we are on the subject of tank cars, I have a question about tank
car that needs some identity. Steamtown in Scranton has a two
compartment tank car lettered NATX 4750. <snip>
Can anyone identify this car and know anything of it's history? My
ORER's only date back to 1949 and do not show this particular car number
in the North American listings.
On Wed, November 9, 2005 5:59 am, Kevin Lafferty replied:
Here's a link to a photo of the car in question.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/natx4753.jpg
Tom, Kevin,

This car is identifiable as a General American built car. The spotting
feature is the lack of side and end sills and the distinctive angled
braces on the end. The car appears to have been built as a 2 dome car,
and the capacity of each compartment stenciled on the respective ends and
domes.


Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: PS -1 BOX Cars

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Sam,

I keep hoping you will give us the 50' single 8' door cars. Lots of roads had these (including the WP and TS), and nobody has ever offered them in HO. IIRC, this car was originally listed in your future projects, but seems to have disappeared.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

mail@kadee.com wrote:

Thanks, Tim O'Connor,

... Unfortunately, due to a continuing changing web site we no longer have as
much information about the PS-1 box cars posted as we use to.
Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products




Re: Tank Cars

Kevin Lafferty <kevinhlafferty@...>
 

Here's a link to a photo of the car in question.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/natx4753.jpg

Kevin Lafferty

"Thomas M. Olsen" <tmolsen@UDel.Edu> wrote:
List,

While we are on the subject of tank cars, I have a question about tank
car that needs some identity. Steamtown in Scranton has a two
compartment tank car lettered NATX 4750. A photo of this car appeared
in the October 2005 issue of the NMRA "ScaleRails on page 31. On what
appears to be the "B" end of the car, there is a capacity of 4577
gallons stenciled. On the sid it shows a Capacity of 80000 pounds, with
a Light Weight of 37800 pounds. The lettering and the North American
rectangular logo appears to be original as the car is in deplorable
condition and has not been restored. It also looks like it is equipped
with Barber spring-plankless solid bearing trucks. To prevent anyone
climbing on the car the National Park Service has plated over the
stirrup steps at all four corners.

Can anyone identify this car and know anything of it's history? My
ORER's only date back to 1949 and do not show this particular car number
in the North American listings.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu



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Re: Tank Cars

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Eldon,

The car is riveted, has wooden running boards, and has the parallelogram with the name within on the side of the tank. As I do not have the capacity to make scans I can not at this time send you one. The tank also has a single long running board to service the tank domes. The photo is a 3/4 wedge shot taken from the end corner looking up so the built date is almost illegible, but appears ?? to be, perhaps, either 2-25 or 8-25!

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Gatwood, Elden wrote:

Tom;
I do not have access to that document, but is this a riveted, or welded
car? Does it have wooden or steel running boards? NATX had lots of
oddball cars, but two-compartment cars are rare, nonetheless.

It sounds like one of the Pennzoil cars they had for additives/specialty
refinery products. The decent load capacity with low liquid volume
makes one suspect it was a car for something very heavy, like auto gas
"lead", or other heavy industrial liquids.

Is the logo the parallelogram on the side of the tank, or the smaller
name?

Thanks,

Elden


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Thomas M. Olsen
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:12 PM
To: Steam Freight Car List
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Tank Cars

List,

While we are on the subject of tank cars, I have a question about tank car that needs some identity. Steamtown in Scranton has a two compartment tank car lettered NATX 4750. A photo of this car appeared in the October 2005 issue of the NMRA "ScaleRails on page 31. On what appears to be the "B" end of the car, there is a capacity of 4577 gallons stenciled. On the sid it shows a Capacity of 80000 pounds, with

a Light Weight of 37800 pounds. The lettering and the North American rectangular logo appears to be original as the car is in deplorable condition and has not been restored. It also looks like it is equipped with Barber spring-plankless solid bearing trucks. To prevent anyone climbing on the car the National Park Service has plated over the stirrup steps at all four corners.

Can anyone identify this car and know anything of it's history? My ORER's only date back to 1949 and do not show this particular car number

in the North American listings.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu




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Re: CORRECTION: CGW "PS-Zero" Boxcar Article (was PS-1 Boxcars)

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:


All this loose talk about CGW "PS-0's" is confusing me! :-)
CGW owned welded PS box cars that we call "PS-0" -- series
90000-90049. They also owned 1937 AAR box cars built by PS
with PS welded ends. Those were 91000-91099 & 92000-92149.
Is this correct or am I even more confused than I thought?

Tim O'Connor
Tim - The only error that I can detect in your statement is that the CGW 1937 AAR box
cars had riveted, not welded Pullman-Standard ends. I have builder's photographs of all
three classes of cars noted above. I wish people would stop calling these PS-0 ends since
they appeared on numerous Pullman-built cars from this era including Seaboard turtle-
back cars and C&EI express box cars to name a few, as well as the CGW AAR box cars. FYI:
there is no such thing as a "PS-0" except in the minds of modelers. If aircraft modelers
started inventing terms for jet fighter aircraft (which they don't), this old McAir/Boeing
aerospace engineer would really get worked up.

Pat Wider


AC&Y H.S. Convention.

Edwin C. Kirstatter <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
 

et al,

If any of you might happen to be in Northeastern Ohio this next
Saturday 12 November we are having our 10th Annual Convention
again in Sharon, Ohio at the Town Hall on the circle.

This year we have two guest speakers:

In the afternoon will be Mr. William Snyder author of "The Rattle Snake
and the Ramsey" (The Lorain Ashland and Southern Railroad).

In the evening we will have Mr. Chip Symes an engineer with NS now and
started with PC. His program will be a slide show about the PRR Huletts
in Cleveland.

We will have many vendors. For a start our AC&Y Co. store, B&OHS
Co. store. E-L HS, Milepost Pub., Railhead Pub. Model Tech, Inc. and
several others.

We will have our usual model contest run by our chairman Stan Raydowicz.
Besides ACY models we welcome PRR models as our feature connection
this year. All categories are open for both roads.

You don't have to be a member to attend. See you there?
Edwin C. Kirstatter, Treas.


Re: Tank car dome from Detail Associates

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Welch wrote:
Detail associates has a tank car dome in their parts line, cast in
resin I believe. Could someone fill me on what kits this is intended
for? I assume it is meant to correct a kit or make possible an
alternative model.
As several have replied, Bill, it's for the Athearn tank car. And though it's true I published an article on converting one of these models for SP use, I got my ideas and the basics of my method from a Richard Hfendrickson article years before in _Prototype Modeler_ magazine. I have one of the DA resin domes and will try a conversion, but it involves removing the Athearn dome (which is way too small) and replacing with a hole which will accept the DA dome. They once made a white metal part for this purpose (experimentally only, I am told), and Richard did one of those conversions too. I guess I should look back at his article to see if there are "helpful hints" I should know about.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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