Date   

Re: placing rivets

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Nov 9, 2005, at 1:36 PM, Jim Betz wrote:

Ted,
Wouldn't it make more sense to have some "rivet spacing templates"
with different spacings of the line of holes on them. And have them
created on a CNC machine. And you lay them over the car side and
put the small drill thru. This should be a piece of cake for any one
with a CNC mill to create because the programming is very simple.
I have a client who "owes me some favors" who has all of the
equipment to do this ... what I don't know is "how big you want the
template to be". What I'm talking about is the physical size of
the template itself in terms of width, lenght, and thickness. You
want these out of brass or some other material? (Yes, I'm saying
I might have more than just one done. (We've met and I live in
San Jose.)
Hello Jim:

The issue with a template for what I am thinking of is that the layout and spacing of rivets varies from prototype to prototype. Also, you then impart the dreaded hand drilling element which results in repetitive stress disorders and more broken drill bits. Also, I am looking at this for very specific applications as I am firmly on the stereolithography bandwagon.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: placing rivets

Jim Betz
 

Ted,
Wouldn't it make more sense to have some "rivet spacing templates"
with different spacings of the line of holes on them. And have them
created on a CNC machine. And you lay them over the car side and
put the small drill thru. This should be a piece of cake for any one
with a CNC mill to create because the programming is very simple.
I have a client who "owes me some favors" who has all of the
equipment to do this ... what I don't know is "how big you want the
template to be". What I'm talking about is the physical size of
the template itself in terms of width, lenght, and thickness. You
want these out of brass or some other material? (Yes, I'm saying
I might have more than just one done. (We've met and I live in
San Jose.)


Re: Question about a RI PS-1 box car

SamClarke
 

In addition to Eds' information the following is from one of our diagram
books. The page for this car has been copied a zillion times so some of the
road numbers are hard to read.

Also note the reinforcing gussets at the bottom corners of the door
openings which need to be added to any current PS-1 40 foot body styles.

The doors are as Ed mentioned.

Running boards 27350-27599, 28100-28349 U.S. Gypsum, all others have Apex.

Hand Brakes 27350-27599, 27850-28099, 28650-29149 Equipco
27600-27849, 28250-28349 Klasing
28100-28249, 28350-28649 Ajax
29250-29349 Ureco 29150-29249 Ellcon
Since these cars were built in 1963 the actual hand wheels were the generic
modern styles (each make has their own little differences but generally look
similar) but the housings are not generic looking..

Trucks 27350-27549, 28050-28249, 28350-28899, 29081 Barber S-2-A
27550-27749,27850-28049, 28900-29349 Ride Control A-3
27750-27849, and others National C-1

The few photos we have indicate that the ends are certainly black and the
running boards are unpainted galvanized. The roofs were more than likely
black but this is unconfirmed with the info we have.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question about a RI PS-1 box car



On Wednesday, November 9, 2005, at 08:08 AM, Mike Brock wrote:

Mark Heiden has a question about a car that is out of our time period.
I'm
going to permit it's entry into discussion but only with regard to
this one
car series and discussion will not be allowed to extend to others.
Thanks.
Mark,
The 500 RI PS-1s built in 1963 were numbered 27350-27849, built circa
October. Pullman-Standard lot number is 8847. The Illinois Railway
Museum has the correspondence files for cars built during this time
period. However, be advised the documents are currently stored in an
express reefer on the grounds of the IRM and are difficult to gain
access.

The first 200 cars came with Youngstown doors, the next 200 cars came
with Pullman-Standard doors, and the last 100 cars came with 6-panel
Superior doors. I don't have any definitive information on the hand
brakes, trucks, and running boards as the RI diagrams I have are dated
1962. Ends were coated with black car cement, freight car red sides,
and the running boards were unpainted galvanized steel (appears to be
Apex Tri-Lok or equivalent with rectangular open grid). The roofs may
have been coated with black car cement when new, however, I don't have
conclusive information on the roof color. The hand brakes may be
Equipco, but the wheel is the later "generic" style. As is often the
case, there may have been multiple suppliers of hand brakes.

A photo of 27452 taken 1/64 shows the use of S-2-A Barber Stabilized
trucks. A Dick Kuelbs color photo of 27657 (December 1997 Railmodel
Journal, page 4) shows a brand new car having A-3 Ride-Control trucks.
I photographed 27570 myself in 1974 and the overhead view was published
January 1994 RMJ on page 46. By this date the roof was mostly
unpainted galvanized steel with hints of black car cement still applied
to the seam caps and other small portions of the roof sheets, which
give me reason to believe the roofs were originally coated entirely
with black car cement.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins









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SP Tank Car Dome Measurements

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

After yesterday's thread on the DA tank car dome and its uses,
I went home and dug out the partial diagrams I have for three
classes of Southern Pacific tank cars, one of which (O-50-13)
can be modeled using the Athearn 42' tank car kit. The results
are interesting; in the three classes are two different width
(or diameter) domes, with two classes having the same gallonage.

Class Drawing Date Gal. Dome Hgt Dome Dia.(int)
------- ------------ ------ --------- --------------
O-50-12 11-9-28 12,500 24" 54"

O-50-13 6-26-43 12,500 22" 61 1/2"

O-50-14 7-31-43 8,000 19" 54"

Note that the height measurements are taken from the top of the
tank to the top of the rivet band around the dome, NOT the very
top of the dome itself.

Also, the drawings confirm what has been mentioned here before,
namely that the dome platform on all three classes is on one side
only, the left side as you look at the B-end of the car.

Shawn Beckert


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /P1010018.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>
Description : A second shot of Chooch's #674 O scale kit.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/P1010018.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /final%20b%20end.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>
Description : Chooch is releasing a new kit in their Ultra Scale II line of 1/48th scale kits. It is a 53' 6" AAR Recommend Practice flatcar. The kit is composed of a one-piece urethane body with a urethane deck. Details are styrene and brass. This is the pilot model that is nearly complete (needs air hoses and cut levers). The kit number is #674 and will be posted on their website soon.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/final%2520b%2520end.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>


Re: Placing rivets

Marcelo Lordeiro <mrcustom@...>
 

This is the address to see a fantastic rivet embossing machine.
http://www.galtran.com/PRR_L2_Construction_Information/Rivet%20Machine/computer_controlled_rivet_emboss.htm
Marcelo Lordeiro

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <dstorzek@elnet.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Placing rivets


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:

I would bet that the best tool for the brass rivets on posts that you
and Dennis have referred to would be a good milling machine with an
Albrecht keyless chuck for the very small drills. A digital readout
would make this almost obscenely easy except for the cost of the
rivets. I am going to inquire about a large scale purchase as these
things are perfect for some applications.

Regards,
Ted Culotta
Her's a source for the drill:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1686302&PMT4NO=2590521

I also might note that Creative Model Associates (Tichy) has .008
diameter phosphor bronze wire, Walthers number 363-1100. The cut end
of spring wire can make a decent drill for resin and plastic, and is
less likely to break with hand use. I'd rather have steel, but this
phosphor bronze may hard enough to do the trick, and a lot cheaper
than the above drills.

Dennis Storzek








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Re: Dalman trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian, please make them available without wheels... It isn't just a
matter of cost. I have no use at all for .110 wheel sets anymore.
(I have a lifetime supply of them as they come with most kits.) And
if possible I hope you can follow Dennis's advice and use the proto
standard rather than the NMRA standard for bolster height.

Tim O'Connor

Gene,
Thanks for the offer, but I don't want to take orders until the trucks are ready
to ship. They'll be available direct and from dealers ( lots of dealers, I
hope).


Re: Dalman trucks

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@a...> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> New HO Dalman two-level trucks will be available in two styles--
with Barber Lateral Motion device detail and without. These trucks
will be Celcon (similar to
> Delrin) one piece moldings with snap-in brake shoe detail and
metal .110" wheelsets. Bolster height will match NMRA's RP 23
(5/16").
Ooooo, an outdated standard rears its ugly head again.

Brian, could I convince you to adopt the "Athearn standard" .295" centerplate height that almost everyone in the industry other than Kadee and MDC uses? Aside from the fact that it is easier for modelers to shim low trucks than to lower high ones, the .295" is an exact scale reduction of the AAR standard 25 3/5" centerplate height, while the 5/16" the NMRA RP-23 specifies is an arbitrary dimension that was written back in the days when modelers didn't own any measuring tools.

Perhaps it's not too late?

Welcome to the wonderful world of model railroad product design :-)


Dennis Storzek


Re: Placing rivets

soolinehistory <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:

I would bet that the best tool for the brass rivets on posts that you
and Dennis have referred to would be a good milling machine with an
Albrecht keyless chuck for the very small drills. A digital readout
would make this almost obscenely easy except for the cost of the
rivets. I am going to inquire about a large scale purchase as these
things are perfect for some applications.

Regards,
Ted Culotta
Her's a source for the drill:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1686302&PMT4NO=2590521

I also might note that Creative Model Associates (Tichy) has .008
diameter phosphor bronze wire, Walthers number 363-1100. The cut end
of spring wire can make a decent drill for resin and plastic, and is
less likely to break with hand use. I'd rather have steel, but this
phosphor bronze may hard enough to do the trick, and a lot cheaper
than the above drills.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Digest Number 2775

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Gentlemen,
New HO Dalman two-level trucks will be available in two styles--
with Barber Lateral Motion device detail and without. These trucks
will be Celcon (similar to
Delrin) one piece moldings with snap-in brake shoe detail and
metal .110" wheelsets. Bolster height will match NMRA's RP 23
(5/16").

Unfortunately, my CNC milling machine became unreliable just before
Naperville, before tooling was finished. A new machine will be
ordered soon, but I'm expecting almost three months until delivery.
Tooling for the truck will resume then.<

I really wish these trucks were available _without_ wheelsets. As I
will use either IM or Reboxx .088 the wheelsets come at added throwaway cost
to me. I would suggest that trucks _without_ wheelsets be sold in [say] 100
set (or more) packaging however. This make it easier (and less costly) for
you and we who want them that way can arrange to divide them ourselves.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Dalman trucks (was Eastern Car Works Trucks)

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Gene,
Thanks for the offer, but I don't want to take orders until the trucks are ready to ship. They'll be available direct and from dealers ( lots of dealers, I hope).

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: bierglaeser
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Dalman trucks (was Eastern Car Works Trucks)


Are you taking orders for the trucks now?
Will you sell direct or only through distributors/retailers?
Would you like payment in advance to help with the new CNC machine?

Gene Green
Out in the West Texas Town of El Paso

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@a...> wrote:
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> New HO Dalman two-level trucks will be available in two styles--
with Barber Lateral Motion device detail and without. These trucks
will be Celcon (similar to
> Delrin) one piece moldings with snap-in brake shoe detail and
metal .110" wheelsets. Bolster height will match NMRA's RP 23
(5/16").
>
> Unfortunately, my CNC milling machine became unreliable just before
Naperville, before tooling was finished. A new machine will be
ordered soon, but I'm expecting almost three months until delivery.
Tooling for the truck will resume then.
>
> Brian Leppert
> Tahoe Model Works
> Carson City, NV
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Worldwide travel insurance Travel trailer insurance
International travel insurance
> Travel insurance usa Travel medical insurance Csa travel
insurance
>
>
>
>
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SPONSORED LINKS Worldwide travel insurance Travel trailer insurance International travel insurance
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Re: Placing rivets

Manfred Lorenz
 

This is what is written on that site:

NOTES FROM OUR TECH DEPARTMENT
This is a 5"x9" Template with Five Scales of Shapes and Rivet
Placement Lines.

FEATURES: Makes perfect panel lines, fuel caps, rivets, and other
shapes to create scale markings on your warbirds and other models.
Included rulers provide accurate measurements for five scales of
aircraft.

Ideal for use with the Top Flite Panel Line Pen.(TOPQ2510)

INCLUDES: One 5 x 9" Plastic Template

That is what I read and know. Thinking round fuselage I guess it
should be somewhat flexible. I just Google'd it, no personal
experience.

Manfred


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

I see... so what is the template made of? It must be very flexible,
but also totally resistant to adhesives, and very very thin (.010?)
Is that true?

If so, I could tape down the template, and glue .010 styrene bits
in the holes. Then run an Xacto across the template, shaving the
"rivets" down to the thickness of the template. Then remove the
template and wash with Tenax per Andy Carlson's description,
to "melt" the tiny styrene cylinders into the shape of rivets.

Is that how you use it?

Tim O.


Tim,
The goal here is to space the rivet_s_ evenly. A common problem
with
airplanes and railroad equipment. Was that your question?


Re: NATX tank car photos posted

Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
 

Thanks! Great scans!

On Nov 9, 2005, at 10:47 AM, pullmanboss wrote:

I photographed that tank car at Steamtown in August 1997 and have just
uploaded six scans to the STMFPH <Files> section. They are in a folder
titled "NATX 4753 Tank Car". The link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFPH/files/NATX%20%204753%20Tank%20Car/

Tom Madden







Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Placing rivets

Tim O'Connor
 

I see... so what is the template made of? It must be very flexible,
but also totally resistant to adhesives, and very very thin (.010?)
Is that true?

If so, I could tape down the template, and glue .010 styrene bits
in the holes. Then run an Xacto across the template, shaving the
"rivets" down to the thickness of the template. Then remove the
template and wash with Tenax per Andy Carlson's description,
to "melt" the tiny styrene cylinders into the shape of rivets.

Is that how you use it?

Tim O.

Tim,
The goal here is to space the rivet_s_ evenly. A common problem with
airplanes and railroad equipment. Was that your question?


RI PS-1

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Mark Heiden wants to know the following:
Rock Island 27350-27849, 500 40ft PS-1 boxcars, built 1963. A prototype photo of RI 27560 is at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ri/ri27560.jpg

I'd like to know the following:

1) What sort of trucks did these cars ride on?

2) What kind of running boards did these cars have?

3) How were they painted (eg-black ends and roof, unpainted roof, etc)?

4) What is a good paint and decal match for these cars?

Mike Brock


Re: Placing rivets

Manfred Lorenz
 

Tim,

The goal here is to space the rivet_s_ evenly. A common problem with
airplanes and railroad equipment. Was that your question?

It is not about application of singles.

But that makes me think: If a template with evenly spaced holes were
used one could fill those with a liquid rivet compound (white glue
diluted to a certain degree) to the top, wait until semi liquid and
lift off. Followed by a part melt down to form the rounded dome.
There is a kit that accomplishes this with a syringe and squeeze
bottles.

Manfred

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Manfred

I don't get it... how do you place a single rivet using a large
template?

Tim O.


Placing rivets is probably as important as making them. The
aircraft
modelers use this tool:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ25&P=0

Manfred


Re: Tank car dome from Detail Associates

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Tim;
I started one, but got disheartened when I tried to paste on those
alternating rivets where the interior tank heads were located. Too
difficult for me. I wish I had the talent.

There are several bashes that look more do-able to me. I am in the
middle of bashing an Athearn 3-dome into something like a STCC car that
appeared in Mainline Modeler back in the 90's. It is quite do-able, and
about the only thing that looks like the Athearn car.

I am also bashing some other classes of tank car from the P2K, IM and RC
cars. I would really like to do a good job on a couple early acid cars,
but also an ICC 103C-W. I have also bashed a Type 21 with a smaller
dome, as an OESX car, plus I would also like to do a later UTLX car like
Mont Switzer did so well for MM. They are all reasonable projects, for
somebody at my level of skill.

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 5:22 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tank car dome from Detail Associates


Anyone tried to do a multidome tank-bash from an 8k Type 21
or 8k Type 27? The additional domes could be larger or smaller
or two different sizes...

Tim O.





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Question about a RI PS-1 box car

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Mark Heiden has a question about a car that is out of our time period. I'm going to permit it's entry into discussion but only with regard to this one car series and discussion will not be allowed to extend to others. Thanks.

Mike Brock
STMFC Head Judge

From Mark:

I'm looking for
some information about an order of Rock Island 40ft PS-1 boxcars that
was built in 1963. The cars are undoubtedly steam-era: 40ft long,
running boards, friction bearing trucks, etc. The Rock received 2300 PS-1s like this between 1960 and 1965.


Re: PS -1 BOX Cars

SamClarke
 

Hello Garth,

The 50 foot PS-1 with 8 foot door opening is, more or less, still on our
"possible" future project list, which changes all the time. Doing this car
would require a new body and underframe. The underframe is a rather
complicated mold which takes a great deal of tooling time. The underframe of
the 8 foot door 50 foot PS-1s is like the 40 foot PS-1s (bolsters, cross
beams, and cross bearers) and not like the more common 9 and 15 foot door
PS-1s.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PS -1 BOX Cars


Sam,

I keep hoping you will give us the 50' single 8' door cars. Lots of
roads had these (including the WP and TS), and nobody has ever offered
them in HO. IIRC, this car was originally listed in your future
projects, but seems to have disappeared.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

mail@kadee.com wrote:

Thanks, Tim O'Connor,

... Unfortunately, due to a continuing changing web site we no longer
have as
much information about the PS-1 box cars posted as we use to.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products








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