Date   

Re: Double Sheathed Box Cars

armprem
 

Greg,B&M,CB&Q ?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Double Sheathed Box Cars


Armand,

NP, SP&S, D&H, SAL, ACL, SOU, RUT, L&N all still had double sheathed
boxcars
in 1950. Many did have steel ends, and were indeed built with steel ends
in
the teens and twenties. A sizeable number were 36 foot cars, too, in 1950.

Gregg Mahlkov


----- Original Message -----
From: "armand premo" <armprem@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Doble Sheathed Box Cars


With all the nice models of this car that are currently available,how
many were still around in 1950?Most were rebuilt before that date.Which
roads continued to have them on the roster in their original form?
Armand
Premo





Yahoo! Groups Links











Yahoo! Groups Links







Gon trucks

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I bought a friend 2 Sunshine gons at N'ville. A Wabash and an ACL. He called tonight and asked what trucks to put under them. These are his first resin kits. I think he described Andrews for the Wabash. We would like to know what trucks are available for these cars. Hopefully he can pick them up at Trainfest this weekend.
Thanks,
Clark Propst


Re: Calling a spade a club

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I am not sure John ever said a car with the early PS ends is
a PS-0... When he first coined the term, he was referring to a very
specific all-welded, radial-roofed PS design bought by a number of
railroads.
Tim O'Connor
Tim, I'm not sure either, that may have come from Gene's CGW book.
But, as we say at work, you knew what I meant.
Clark Propst


Re: 1927 Freight Train Consists

PBowers <waiting@...>
 

At 07:23 PM 11/9/05, you wrote:
Very interesting Terry! Tobacco travelling to Hagersville (where is that?)
South west of Hamilton.

in MC box cars? Where did it come from? And soda ash too? Isn't that a
mining product, or was it produced chemically somewhere on the MC?

It was produced chemically (Solvay Process) at Amherstburg, south of Windsor from salt and limestone deposits. The plant, last of its type in North America, just closed in the last two years.

Peter Bowers


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Re: Calling a spade a club

Tim O'Connor
 

Ted,

Show me a dictionary that has a definition for Carbuilder's End.
In fact, show me that all Car Builder's Cyclopedias contain not
only the definition, but that ALL of them have exactly the same
definition. Then I will do as you ask and look it up next time.
Until then, it's a Dartnot to me.

Sorry, but I work in the world of bang/dot/crunch technology,
where words are tortured and mangled and have so many
context-specific meanings that I need a translator to have a
conversation with someone from another company. PS-0 is a
piece of cake compared to that.

Tim O.

As far as terminology goes, I am in favor of someone scratching their
heads wondering what a Carbuilder's end is and looking it up, rather
than perpetuating incorrect information. Did your mother tell you to
just go on using a word incorrectly or go look it up in the dictionary.
Same thing!


Re: C&NW color guide for Morning Sun

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

Or because he has been hoarding the photos for the past 20 years for the book he has written and is about to be published "any day now, I just have to finish a few things on it".

At 05:58 PM 11/9/2005, you wrote:
Tom,
Of course, the reason the author didn't
contact him was because the author didn't know he existed.

A sometimes frustrated Gene Green
Bob Webber


Re: Call for slides

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Unless they promise to remount the slides (since, after all, they are being
borrowed, not sold, and this is all for their benefit), count me out.
--

Brian Ehni

From: bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:02:30 -0000
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Call for slides

Paul,
I agree with you. Speaking only of Morning Sun, books a few years
back were published without demounting the slides. I thought they
were OK.

The publisher told me a few days ago that they resumed opening the
slide mounts because they get better quality that way. I really
don't know one way or another as I have never even seen a slide
scanner, let alone use one.

I will tell you this. Some slide owners get angry when their slides
are demounted so I like to be up front about it.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul LaCiura" <paul.jeseng@s...> wrote:

Gene,

Why do they have to demount the slides?

I use a Minolta Dimage scanner that loads 4-5 at a time in their
mounts.

I am just curious as to why they do this. It seems unnecessary.

Paul

Paul LaCiura
San Francisco, CA
spdaylight.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of
bierglaeser
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Call for slides

I am working on the C&NW color guide for Morning Sun. I envision a
two-volume set with 250 to 350 images in each. In addition to the
freight and passenger cars, maintenance-of-way equipment and
cabooses
of the C&NW and Omaha Road, the books will also include quite a
nice
selection of images of M&StL, Litchfield & Madison, Des Moines &
Central Iowa and FtDDM&S freight cars and MOW equipment.

Coverage of plain old flat cars and wooden cabooses is lacking.
Also
lacking are slides of CNW or CMO box cars with slogans such
as "Route
of the Streamliners," etc.

If anyone has slides they would like to loan for the book please
contact me directly at bierglaeser@y... That is bierglaeser at
yahoo dot com.

Slides from the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s are almost certain to
be
used unless they are very poorly exposed or composed. Slides from
the 1970s and 1980s will be used only if they fill a real gap.
Slides from the 1990s are undesireable although a few will likely
appear in the book.

The Morning Sun "deal" is this; loan some slides that we use and
get
a free copy of the book they are used in.

CAUTION: Your slide mounts will be opened and the film removed for
scanning. Sorry, but that's how Morning Sun does it nowadays. If
you don't want your slides opened, don't submit them. I
understand.
Having my slides opened bothers me but having the images preserved
forever and available to all is more important to me.

Gene Green
Out in the West Texas Town of El Paso







Yahoo! Groups Links







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Re: 1927 Freight Train Consists

Tim O'Connor
 

Very interesting Terry! Tobacco travelling to Hagersville (where is that?)
in MC box cars? Where did it come from? And soda ash too? Isn't that a
mining product, or was it produced chemically somewhere on the MC?

Tim O.

For those interested in seeing some complete freight train consists, I have
added 11 trains from 1927 that operated on the Canada Southern / Michigan Central
to my website.


Re: Calling a spade a club

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Nov 9, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Clark Propst wrote:

I had a email discussion with John Nehrich about some of the different names mainly attached to CGW cars and parts. His reasoning was you needed to call it something a persons mind's eye could visualize.

Example: The CGW ARA proposed design box cars had Pullman proprietary doors????? Verses: The CGW X 29s had reverse Creco doors...You can see it!!!
This would be fine if Creco actually made the doors, but since they didn't it is more ambiguous than Pullman proprietary, IMHO.

As far as terminology goes, I am in favor of someone scratching their heads wondering what a Carbuilder's end is and looking it up, rather than perpetuating incorrect information. Did your mother tell you to just go on using a word incorrectly or go look it up in the dictionary. Same thing!

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Call for slides

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

If the slides are remounted in plastic holders (rather than in the sliced
and Scotch taped original cardboard mounts as some hobby magazines did many,
many years ago), owners might be less concerned. Before moving to PowerPoint
clinic presentations, I've had large quantities of clinic slides remounted
in plastic simply to avoid jamming problems during presentations....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Call for slides

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Tim,
I am told that slides give better results. Again, I don't know. I'm
not involved in that aspect of the publishing.

That being said, I do know that I have used color slides larger than
35mm as well as a few color prints. The CNW Official Photography book
was a real mixture of photographic media. I have a couple of killer 3"
x 5" color slides for the CNW books.

If someone offers color material that fills a gap, regardless the
format, I'll get it into the book.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@c... wrote:

Gene,

Only slides? No 35mm or 120 negs? Is that Morning Sun policy?

Tim


1927 Freight Train Consists

CASO <caso@...>
 

For those interested in seeing some complete freight train consists, I have added
11 trains from 1927 that operated on the Canada Southern / Michigan Central
to my website.

You can go directly to them at:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists.htm

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@...
www.canadasouthern.com


Re: Call for slides

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Paul,
I agree with you. Speaking only of Morning Sun, books a few years
back were published without demounting the slides. I thought they
were OK.

The publisher told me a few days ago that they resumed opening the
slide mounts because they get better quality that way. I really
don't know one way or another as I have never even seen a slide
scanner, let alone use one.

I will tell you this. Some slide owners get angry when their slides
are demounted so I like to be up front about it.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul LaCiura" <paul.jeseng@s...> wrote:

Gene,

Why do they have to demount the slides?

I use a Minolta Dimage scanner that loads 4-5 at a time in their
mounts.

I am just curious as to why they do this. It seems unnecessary.

Paul

Paul LaCiura
San Francisco, CA
spdaylight.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of
bierglaeser
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Call for slides

I am working on the C&NW color guide for Morning Sun. I envision a
two-volume set with 250 to 350 images in each. In addition to the
freight and passenger cars, maintenance-of-way equipment and
cabooses
of the C&NW and Omaha Road, the books will also include quite a
nice
selection of images of M&StL, Litchfield & Madison, Des Moines &
Central Iowa and FtDDM&S freight cars and MOW equipment.

Coverage of plain old flat cars and wooden cabooses is lacking.
Also
lacking are slides of CNW or CMO box cars with slogans such
as "Route
of the Streamliners," etc.

If anyone has slides they would like to loan for the book please
contact me directly at bierglaeser@y... That is bierglaeser at
yahoo dot com.

Slides from the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s are almost certain to
be
used unless they are very poorly exposed or composed. Slides from
the 1970s and 1980s will be used only if they fill a real gap.
Slides from the 1990s are undesireable although a few will likely
appear in the book.

The Morning Sun "deal" is this; loan some slides that we use and
get
a free copy of the book they are used in.

CAUTION: Your slide mounts will be opened and the film removed for
scanning. Sorry, but that's how Morning Sun does it nowadays. If
you don't want your slides opened, don't submit them. I
understand.
Having my slides opened bothers me but having the images preserved
forever and available to all is more important to me.

Gene Green
Out in the West Texas Town of El Paso







Yahoo! Groups Links







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Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date:
11/8/2005


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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date:
11/8/2005


Re: C&NW color guide for Morning Sun

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Tom,
I can tell you that there is more material out there to be
discovered, color and black and white.

And I can tell you how to find it!

Publish a book on any railroad topic. Almost immediately after
publication the author will be contacted by someone who will want to
know why he wasn't consulted because he has ... whatever, something
the author couldn't find. Of course, the reason the author didn't
contact him was because the author didn't know he existed.

A sometimes frustrated Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Thomas Baker" <bakert@a...> wrote:

In regard to color guides, well, a C&NW color guide would be
invaluable. I have long wondered whether those who do such research
have really uncovered all that is out there. I suppose that's an
unanswerable question. Whether some early railfan photographer
experimented with in the late Forties or early Fifties with color
film, I can't say. I am convinced, however, that more in black and
white is out there. It seems that Bob has a wealth of negatives.
John Gruber purchased the Martarano collection, so I have heard, and
Mr. Martarano once told me that he had many more negatives than he
ever printed up. I noticed on one occasion that he had a repertoire
of refrigerator car photos. All black and white of course, but at
least they provide a guide.

Tom

________________________________



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Double Sheathed Box Cars

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Armand,

NP, SP&S, D&H, SAL, ACL, SOU, RUT, L&N all still had double sheathed boxcars in 1950. Many did have steel ends, and were indeed built with steel ends in the teens and twenties. A sizeable number were 36 foot cars, too, in 1950.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "armand premo" <armprem@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Doble Sheathed Box Cars


With all the nice models of this car that are currently available,how
many were still around in 1950?Most were rebuilt before that date.Which
roads continued to have them on the roster in their original form? Armand
Premo





Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Call for slides

Tim O'Connor
 

They probably use a drum scanner or other device that
wants the film directly up against the glass, to reduce
distortion. (Although judging by the quality of several MS
books this hasn't made that big a difference.)

Tim O.

Gene,
Why do they have to demount the slides?


Re: Calling a spade a club

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark, I am not sure John ever said a car with the early PS ends is
a PS-0... When he first coined the term, he was referring to a very
specific all-welded, radial-roofed PS design bought by a number of
railroads. This was brought out as a kit by the RPI club. It has only
become apparent since then that the end was applied to a number
of other car designs (but I don't know of any other application of
the radial PS roof).

Tony's rather gratuitous comment notwithstanding, I still call them
"PS-0" ends and I'll bet Tony an Anchor Steam beer that he knows
EXACTLY what I mean when I use that term. Last time I checked,
that was John's intent -- to communicate an idea -- not to invoke
the blessings of the Historically Approved Terminology Committee.

And I'm grateful as well to whoever coined "Dartnot end". Sure, it's
a "Carbuilder End". Now there's a useful and unambiguous phrase!

Tim O'Connor

So, the CGW cars with Pullman proprietary ends, either 4/4 or 4/5 are called
PS-0s whether they are welded or riveted cars.


Re: Calling a spade a club

Greg Martin
 

Ted writes:

"Should I show you the ARA proceedings where substitution of "standard" (my
term, not the industry's) components (ends, roofs, doors, et al) with those
from car builders' were referred to as Carbuilders'? Car
Builders' Cycs are catalogs, not ARA or AAR proceedings. If you want the
real terms go to the source. You can call it whatever you want. I just don't
appreciate the historical record that we are all creating
being muddled with terms like Reverse Creco, PS-0, etc. How about if we all
agree to use quotation marks so that someone who is learning all of this
twenty years from now sees that there is some distinction being
applied to those terms that are descriptive, but not "official."

Regards,
Ted Culotta"


I agree with the point that Ted makes; however the one term we can't seem to
get around in this hobby is the term "Hat Brace" when we refer to what the
steel industry calls a Round Edged Flange Channel (REFC). Call the local steel
supplier and ask him for a twelve foot piece of, "hat brace metal, you know
the kind they use on those outside braced box cars..."

Greg Martin


Doble Sheathed Box Cars

armprem
 

With all the nice models of this car that are currently available,how
many were still around in 1950?Most were rebuilt before that date.Which
roads continued to have them on the roster in their original form? Armand
Premo


Re: Calling a spade a club

Tony Thompson
 

Clark Propst wrote:

I had a email discussion with John Nehrich about some of the different names mainly attached to CGW cars and parts. His reasoning was you needed to call it something a persons mind's eye could visualize.
Example: The CGW ARA proposed design box cars had Pullman proprietary doors . . .
So, the CGW cars with Pullman proprietary ends, either 4/4 or 4/5 are called PS-0s . . .
This information shows that John's viewpoint on history is much like his approach to architectural history, freight car design history, etc. It is difficult not to be reminded of the Red Queen on nomenclature. One can only say, YMMV.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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