Date   

Re: 1927 Freight Train Consists

Mark Heiden
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Very interesting Terry! Tobacco travelling to Hagersville (where
is that?)
in MC box cars? Where did it come from?
Hi Tim,

As Peter pointed out, Hagersville is indeed southwest of Hamilton,
very near to the heart of tobacco country in southwestern Ontario.

If I'm reading this right, the cars were loaded in St. Thomas and
moved to Hagersville. It would have been grown and warehoused
locally, but it seems odd that local tobacco would move such a short
distance by rail. But then again, it moved in December, and plowed
country roads in southwestern Ontario weren't common until the 1930s.

If the tobacco isn't local, it likely came from the southeastern
United States. I worked on a tobacco farm for a couple of summers,
and gained a little insight into the buying and selling side of the
business. Depending upon what the tobacco companies decided would
sell best, they purchased only certain types or grades of local
tobacco, and imported tobacco from elsewhere if local growers did
not produce enough of what they wanted (admittedly, I'm not sure of
the ins-and-outs of this). One summer we ended up with a great deal
of what was called "red" tobacco. There was no local market for it,
but it was in demand in China, so off it went.

Mark Heiden


Re: Call for slides

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Not sure of the publisher, but one was reported to have actually CUT the
slides to fit the page layout, and also thereby ensure they would never be
duplicated and resold.
--

Brian Ehni

From: Curt Fortenberry <arrphoto@alaska.net>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 02:07:36 -0000
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Call for slides

Really? I've had my slides used by MSB before in other books, and if
they opened them they did a bang fine job as I was never warned of
this and I certainly didn't notice it when they came back. Is this
something recent?

Curt Fortenberry

CAUTION: Your slide mounts will be opened and the film removed for
scanning. Sorry, but that's how Morning Sun does it nowadays. If
you don't want your slides opened, don't submit them. I understand.
Having my slides opened bothers me but having the images preserved
forever and available to all is more important to me.


Re: Calling a spade a club

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Clark, I am not sure John ever said a car with the early PS ends is
a PS-0... When he first coined the term, he was referring to a very
specific all-welded, radial-roofed PS design bought by a number of
railroads. This was brought out as a kit by the RPI club. It has only
become apparent since then that the end was applied to a number
of other car designs (but I don't know of any other application of
the radial PS roof).

Tony's rather gratuitous comment notwithstanding, I still call them
"PS-0" ends and I'll bet Tony an Anchor Steam beer that he knows
EXACTLY what I mean when I use that term. Last time I checked,
that was John's intent -- to communicate an idea -- not to invoke
the blessings of the Historically Approved Terminology Committee.

And I'm grateful as well to whoever coined "Dartnot end". Sure, it's
a "Carbuilder End". Now there's a useful and unambiguous phrase!

Tim O'Connor
Tim, I just can't figure out what's so wrong with using historically correct terms. It's
certainly more desireable than being historically incorrect. Using a correct term, if one
exists, is more desireable than using a phony baloney one that's "cute" or "clever" or made
so obvious even an idiot can figure it out. Of course, the guy that invented it likes it best
(gosh I'm so smart) and tries to promote it whenever he can.

PS-0 while clever, is incorrect (no basis in fact) and illogical, here's why:

- a PS-4 is a Pullman-Standard flat car
- a PS-3 is a Pullman-Standard open hopper car
- a PS-2 is a Pullman-Standard covered hopper car, and
- a PS-1 is a Pullman-Standard box car.

So methinks a PS-0 must be something other than one of the above, certainly not another
box car. A Pullman-Standard refrigerator car?

The problem with all of this modeler's made up stuff is, years from now, myth will be
confused with or substituted for fact. The original intent or genesis will be long forgotten.
History will be corrupted irreversibly. Someone will do a search for "PS-0 box cars" and
find nothing or find some made-up myth. I found it on the internet, it must be true!!!!
Most subscribers to this list get real concerned about duplicating accurate colors,
dimensions, series numbers, weathering, trucks, doors, couplers, wheels, running boards,
hand brakes, etc. So, why not use accurate or correct terms when they exist? - (underline
when they exist) - Why make them up? Let's be consistent with what this list is all about.

While researching passenger car trucks, I came across a phony baloney Pullman truck
nomenclature that a modeler made up. It was being substituted in several publications for
the real Pullman nomenclature and had acquired a life of its own. It's now taken as gospel
in some quarters. And there was no real need for it. If we're going to stay above the
ready-to-run crowd (aka bozos), why not use the correct terms when they exist?

Richard Hendrickson insists we not call a running board a "roof walk." Ben Hom insists we
not call a PRR X29 an X-29. Tony Thompson has killed numerous historical myths
concerning refrigerator cars. It's all consistent. (They are welcome to carry the baton
further).

Having said all of that, I now can't wait to build a "Tan Dot" model of a PRR X-23 (sic)
outside-braced (sic) box car with a wood roof walk (sic), round polling pockets (sic), a
triple valve (sic), wire hand grabs (sic), Andrews trucks with friction bearings (sic), and cast
iron wheels with cooling ribs (sic). Once finished, I think I'll paint it some color. I think box
car red (sic) "sounds" correct. After that, I think I'll build an accurate model of a Boeing
fighting flying gadget (sic) pushed along (sic) by those flame shooter outer thingees (sic).
Ugh! I can't continue this any longer, it's making me sick! See yah!

BTW: don't expect a reply since I'm not going to argue this any further. I'm done.

Proud to be a member and sponsor of the "Historically Approved Terminology Committee"
(HATC) as you call it. RP CYC will continue to use and advocate correct terms whenever
they are applicable. I prefer to educate rather than obfuscate.

Pat Wider


Re: Call for slides

Curt Fortenberry <arrphoto@...>
 

Really? I've had my slides used by MSB before in other books, and if
they opened them they did a bang fine job as I was never warned of
this and I certainly didn't notice it when they came back. Is this
something recent?

Curt Fortenberry

CAUTION: Your slide mounts will be opened and the film removed for
scanning. Sorry, but that's how Morning Sun does it nowadays. If
you don't want your slides opened, don't submit them. I understand.
Having my slides opened bothers me but having the images preserved
forever and available to all is more important to me.


Re: SFRD reefers sold to PRR

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rich Orr asked:
"The PRR acquired at least one former SFRD reefer (not sure of the class)
for ice service at I believe it was Trenton. (A photo of this car has been
published in several books.) This reefer was used to store ice for passenger
car air conditioning. I am seeking answers to several questions about these
cars.
How many did the PRR acquire?
When were they acquired?
To which passenger terminals were they assigned?
What was the SFRD class of this/these reefers?"

PRR 498350 (ex-SFRD Class Rr-23) was the Jersey City (NOT Trenton) ice car.
A photo of this car is published (along with a laughable miscaption as a
"modified X23 boxcar") on page 68 of Morning Sun PRR Color Guide, Volume 1.
I have no information on when or how many SFRD cars were acquired; it's
entirely possible that this was a wrecked car that was paid off by the
Pennsy, then repaired and placed into company service.


Ben Hom


Re: Double Sheathed Box Cars

armprem
 

Greg,B&M,CB&Q ?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Double Sheathed Box Cars


Armand,

NP, SP&S, D&H, SAL, ACL, SOU, RUT, L&N all still had double sheathed
boxcars
in 1950. Many did have steel ends, and were indeed built with steel ends
in
the teens and twenties. A sizeable number were 36 foot cars, too, in 1950.

Gregg Mahlkov


----- Original Message -----
From: "armand premo" <armprem@surfglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Doble Sheathed Box Cars


With all the nice models of this car that are currently available,how
many were still around in 1950?Most were rebuilt before that date.Which
roads continued to have them on the roster in their original form?
Armand
Premo





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Yahoo! Groups Links







Gon trucks

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I bought a friend 2 Sunshine gons at N'ville. A Wabash and an ACL. He called tonight and asked what trucks to put under them. These are his first resin kits. I think he described Andrews for the Wabash. We would like to know what trucks are available for these cars. Hopefully he can pick them up at Trainfest this weekend.
Thanks,
Clark Propst


Re: Calling a spade a club

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I am not sure John ever said a car with the early PS ends is
a PS-0... When he first coined the term, he was referring to a very
specific all-welded, radial-roofed PS design bought by a number of
railroads.
Tim O'Connor
Tim, I'm not sure either, that may have come from Gene's CGW book.
But, as we say at work, you knew what I meant.
Clark Propst


Re: 1927 Freight Train Consists

PBowers <waiting@...>
 

At 07:23 PM 11/9/05, you wrote:
Very interesting Terry! Tobacco travelling to Hagersville (where is that?)
South west of Hamilton.

in MC box cars? Where did it come from? And soda ash too? Isn't that a
mining product, or was it produced chemically somewhere on the MC?

It was produced chemically (Solvay Process) at Amherstburg, south of Windsor from salt and limestone deposits. The plant, last of its type in North America, just closed in the last two years.

Peter Bowers


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Re: Calling a spade a club

Tim O'Connor
 

Ted,

Show me a dictionary that has a definition for Carbuilder's End.
In fact, show me that all Car Builder's Cyclopedias contain not
only the definition, but that ALL of them have exactly the same
definition. Then I will do as you ask and look it up next time.
Until then, it's a Dartnot to me.

Sorry, but I work in the world of bang/dot/crunch technology,
where words are tortured and mangled and have so many
context-specific meanings that I need a translator to have a
conversation with someone from another company. PS-0 is a
piece of cake compared to that.

Tim O.

As far as terminology goes, I am in favor of someone scratching their
heads wondering what a Carbuilder's end is and looking it up, rather
than perpetuating incorrect information. Did your mother tell you to
just go on using a word incorrectly or go look it up in the dictionary.
Same thing!


Re: C&NW color guide for Morning Sun

Bob Webber <no17@...>
 

Or because he has been hoarding the photos for the past 20 years for the book he has written and is about to be published "any day now, I just have to finish a few things on it".

At 05:58 PM 11/9/2005, you wrote:
Tom,
Of course, the reason the author didn't
contact him was because the author didn't know he existed.

A sometimes frustrated Gene Green
Bob Webber


Re: Call for slides

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Unless they promise to remount the slides (since, after all, they are being
borrowed, not sold, and this is all for their benefit), count me out.
--

Brian Ehni

From: bierglaeser <bierglaeser@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:02:30 -0000
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Call for slides

Paul,
I agree with you. Speaking only of Morning Sun, books a few years
back were published without demounting the slides. I thought they
were OK.

The publisher told me a few days ago that they resumed opening the
slide mounts because they get better quality that way. I really
don't know one way or another as I have never even seen a slide
scanner, let alone use one.

I will tell you this. Some slide owners get angry when their slides
are demounted so I like to be up front about it.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul LaCiura" <paul.jeseng@s...> wrote:

Gene,

Why do they have to demount the slides?

I use a Minolta Dimage scanner that loads 4-5 at a time in their
mounts.

I am just curious as to why they do this. It seems unnecessary.

Paul

Paul LaCiura
San Francisco, CA
spdaylight.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
bierglaeser
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:55 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Call for slides

I am working on the C&NW color guide for Morning Sun. I envision a
two-volume set with 250 to 350 images in each. In addition to the
freight and passenger cars, maintenance-of-way equipment and
cabooses
of the C&NW and Omaha Road, the books will also include quite a
nice
selection of images of M&StL, Litchfield & Madison, Des Moines &
Central Iowa and FtDDM&S freight cars and MOW equipment.

Coverage of plain old flat cars and wooden cabooses is lacking.
Also
lacking are slides of CNW or CMO box cars with slogans such
as "Route
of the Streamliners," etc.

If anyone has slides they would like to loan for the book please
contact me directly at bierglaeser@y... That is bierglaeser at
yahoo dot com.

Slides from the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s are almost certain to
be
used unless they are very poorly exposed or composed. Slides from
the 1970s and 1980s will be used only if they fill a real gap.
Slides from the 1990s are undesireable although a few will likely
appear in the book.

The Morning Sun "deal" is this; loan some slides that we use and
get
a free copy of the book they are used in.

CAUTION: Your slide mounts will be opened and the film removed for
scanning. Sorry, but that's how Morning Sun does it nowadays. If
you don't want your slides opened, don't submit them. I
understand.
Having my slides opened bothers me but having the images preserved
forever and available to all is more important to me.

Gene Green
Out in the West Texas Town of El Paso







Yahoo! Groups Links







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11/8/2005


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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: 1927 Freight Train Consists

Tim O'Connor
 

Very interesting Terry! Tobacco travelling to Hagersville (where is that?)
in MC box cars? Where did it come from? And soda ash too? Isn't that a
mining product, or was it produced chemically somewhere on the MC?

Tim O.

For those interested in seeing some complete freight train consists, I have
added 11 trains from 1927 that operated on the Canada Southern / Michigan Central
to my website.


Re: Calling a spade a club

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Nov 9, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Clark Propst wrote:

I had a email discussion with John Nehrich about some of the different names mainly attached to CGW cars and parts. His reasoning was you needed to call it something a persons mind's eye could visualize.

Example: The CGW ARA proposed design box cars had Pullman proprietary doors????? Verses: The CGW X 29s had reverse Creco doors...You can see it!!!
This would be fine if Creco actually made the doors, but since they didn't it is more ambiguous than Pullman proprietary, IMHO.

As far as terminology goes, I am in favor of someone scratching their heads wondering what a Carbuilder's end is and looking it up, rather than perpetuating incorrect information. Did your mother tell you to just go on using a word incorrectly or go look it up in the dictionary. Same thing!

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Call for slides

Jack Burgess
 

If the slides are remounted in plastic holders (rather than in the sliced
and Scotch taped original cardboard mounts as some hobby magazines did many,
many years ago), owners might be less concerned. Before moving to PowerPoint
clinic presentations, I've had large quantities of clinic slides remounted
in plastic simply to avoid jamming problems during presentations....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Call for slides

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Tim,
I am told that slides give better results. Again, I don't know. I'm
not involved in that aspect of the publishing.

That being said, I do know that I have used color slides larger than
35mm as well as a few color prints. The CNW Official Photography book
was a real mixture of photographic media. I have a couple of killer 3"
x 5" color slides for the CNW books.

If someone offers color material that fills a gap, regardless the
format, I'll get it into the book.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, timboconnor@c... wrote:

Gene,

Only slides? No 35mm or 120 negs? Is that Morning Sun policy?

Tim


1927 Freight Train Consists

CASO <caso@...>
 

For those interested in seeing some complete freight train consists, I have added
11 trains from 1927 that operated on the Canada Southern / Michigan Central
to my website.

You can go directly to them at:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/freight-consists.htm

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario, Canada
trlink@canadasouthern.com
www.canadasouthern.com


Re: Call for slides

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Paul,
I agree with you. Speaking only of Morning Sun, books a few years
back were published without demounting the slides. I thought they
were OK.

The publisher told me a few days ago that they resumed opening the
slide mounts because they get better quality that way. I really
don't know one way or another as I have never even seen a slide
scanner, let alone use one.

I will tell you this. Some slide owners get angry when their slides
are demounted so I like to be up front about it.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Paul LaCiura" <paul.jeseng@s...> wrote:

Gene,

Why do they have to demount the slides?

I use a Minolta Dimage scanner that loads 4-5 at a time in their
mounts.

I am just curious as to why they do this. It seems unnecessary.

Paul

Paul LaCiura
San Francisco, CA
spdaylight.com
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
bierglaeser
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:55 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Call for slides

I am working on the C&NW color guide for Morning Sun. I envision a
two-volume set with 250 to 350 images in each. In addition to the
freight and passenger cars, maintenance-of-way equipment and
cabooses
of the C&NW and Omaha Road, the books will also include quite a
nice
selection of images of M&StL, Litchfield & Madison, Des Moines &
Central Iowa and FtDDM&S freight cars and MOW equipment.

Coverage of plain old flat cars and wooden cabooses is lacking.
Also
lacking are slides of CNW or CMO box cars with slogans such
as "Route
of the Streamliners," etc.

If anyone has slides they would like to loan for the book please
contact me directly at bierglaeser@y... That is bierglaeser at
yahoo dot com.

Slides from the 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s are almost certain to
be
used unless they are very poorly exposed or composed. Slides from
the 1970s and 1980s will be used only if they fill a real gap.
Slides from the 1990s are undesireable although a few will likely
appear in the book.

The Morning Sun "deal" is this; loan some slides that we use and
get
a free copy of the book they are used in.

CAUTION: Your slide mounts will be opened and the film removed for
scanning. Sorry, but that's how Morning Sun does it nowadays. If
you don't want your slides opened, don't submit them. I
understand.
Having my slides opened bothers me but having the images preserved
forever and available to all is more important to me.

Gene Green
Out in the West Texas Town of El Paso







Yahoo! Groups Links







--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date:
11/8/2005


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/163 - Release Date:
11/8/2005


Re: C&NW color guide for Morning Sun

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Tom,
I can tell you that there is more material out there to be
discovered, color and black and white.

And I can tell you how to find it!

Publish a book on any railroad topic. Almost immediately after
publication the author will be contacted by someone who will want to
know why he wasn't consulted because he has ... whatever, something
the author couldn't find. Of course, the reason the author didn't
contact him was because the author didn't know he existed.

A sometimes frustrated Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Baker" <bakert@a...> wrote:

In regard to color guides, well, a C&NW color guide would be
invaluable. I have long wondered whether those who do such research
have really uncovered all that is out there. I suppose that's an
unanswerable question. Whether some early railfan photographer
experimented with in the late Forties or early Fifties with color
film, I can't say. I am convinced, however, that more in black and
white is out there. It seems that Bob has a wealth of negatives.
John Gruber purchased the Martarano collection, so I have heard, and
Mr. Martarano once told me that he had many more negatives than he
ever printed up. I noticed on one occasion that he had a repertoire
of refrigerator car photos. All black and white of course, but at
least they provide a guide.

Tom

________________________________



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Double Sheathed Box Cars

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Armand,

NP, SP&S, D&H, SAL, ACL, SOU, RUT, L&N all still had double sheathed boxcars in 1950. Many did have steel ends, and were indeed built with steel ends in the teens and twenties. A sizeable number were 36 foot cars, too, in 1950.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----
From: "armand premo" <armprem@surfglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Doble Sheathed Box Cars


With all the nice models of this car that are currently available,how
many were still around in 1950?Most were rebuilt before that date.Which
roads continued to have them on the roster in their original form? Armand
Premo





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