Date   

Re: Unproduced frt cars

Scott Pitzer
 

He means
Walthers "ex-Life-Like" Proto 2000 line.
Scott Pitzer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: sseders@comcast.net
Sent: Dec 26, 2005 9:20 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unproduced frt cars

Tim O'Connor wrote

If you want to sell a billion flat cars, bring out a really well detailed
52'6" TOFC flat with two well done trailers, and then bring it out in 42
paint schemes. I just hope when someone finally wakes up and smells this
coffee that the car they choose is an SP F-70-10, but most likely is that
Walthers will realize their AAR flat is a potential gold mine. Of course
it has to be better than the ancient Athearn model or it will fall flat.
Hobbyists will pay for high quality, Kadee proved that.


Has Walthers announced an AAR flat car or is this one of the "well kept secrets" :) of upcoming models?

Scott Seders







Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: RCJ/RPC/Clubs/etc.

Justin Kahn
 

I always think of Rail Car Journal as "Cockle (editor)" rather than "Kratville (publisher)." I have almost a complete set (lacking only the second issue on refrigerator, which seems to be particularly popular) with a few extras. I find it often useful, although more limited than I should like, as they have a number of unusual historical views. So far as I can tell, most of the captions are accurate (unlike the laughable H&M series).
I have some of the Casdorph, which were all over the map (topically and choronologically); they have their uses, if one can pick and choose which issues to buy.
A last thought about RPC's direction: I make no apologies for favoring shortlines (which mostly solves the problem of being able to operate fully without joining a club), so while I have some passenger equipment, it is scarcely class I. Virtually all common freight cars can logically appear on the C&C, but frontline passenger equipment, such as the lightweights of #11, are of negligible use to me. I applaud Pat and Ed's decision to a division of responsibility with Ted Culotta on modeling articles, as we minority-scale modelers will not feel so marginalized in choosing between them.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:35:01 -0800
From: Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: freight car magazines

Ed Mines wrote:
Anyone know the story of the Kratville series of freight car magazines
printed around 1980?
Not sure what Ed means by "story" here. They are a most
miscellaneous collection of photos, obviously whatever Bill had at
hand, with many oddball cars and a certain number of railroad PR
photos, and sometimes erroneous captions. That said, they can be useful
sources of info. I have issues 1 through 5, which I think is all there
ever were. You see them for sale occasionally. Bill told me that the
sales were abysmal.

How about the "Freight Car Journal"? I subscribed (or was a member)
for a while but the subject matter didn't interest me - it was mostly
current stuff but every so often a pre1900 drawing would show up. This
magazine
(or society) is long defunct, right?
I'm not sure if it's still around, though someone on the list
will know. My reaction was exactly like yours: poor focus, and a
tendency to do contemporary cars (they did do a nice issue on the
historical IC fleet).

"Prototype Modeler" and it's predicessor regional magazines had a lot
of freight car articles. I was sorry when they stopped publishing.
Richard hendrickson wrote some articles for them. I wonder what the
story was?
Money (not enough of it) after it was sold. Richard Hendrickson
may want to add more.

Tony Thompson
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/


Re: NYC box car decals

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:
"Also, the paint data triangles
appear to be something that came with the Gothic lettering schemes.
Is
this correct or did they appear sooner?"

Ted, the photos that I quickly looked at show that the Paint
Data Triangles definitely do pre-date the Gothic lettering. I have
them going back at least to 1951, but I suspect that they may even
go back to the very late 1940's. Perhapes the good Mr. English
up in New York state can help use here.


Seasons Greeting To All, and
a Happy New Year (let's hope
we get many new "correct" freight
cars in the coming year).

Jerry Stewart

Chicago, Ill.


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Jeff English
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@b...> wrote:

I know Westerfield has the NYC USRA 40' boxcar in various forms,
and I have
3 to build, but I really need this car in similar quantities as
the Red
Caboose X29's so while I will take pride in the Westerfield cars I
have, I'd
still like to see them in plastic. (How's that for one sentence!)

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Well, Brian, the NYC USRA-clone all-steel box cars are a good
illustration of what I'm talking about. AFAIK, the Westerfield kits
are the only available HO models of these cars, and not counting
variations in lettering and doors, there are, what, four variations
available? (single- or double-door, Murphy or Dreadnaught ends). If
you count every variation of what would be a distinct "shell" for
modeling purposes, the NYC USRA-clone all-steel box cars would
require at least thirteen shells to model only the as-built
variations (that I can think of off the top of my head without
studying the situation). Later rebuilds add several more distinct
shells required. Now you have shells and then you can start dealing
with doors, trucks, KC-to-AB brake conversions, and all the various
paints schemes and you have hundreds of permutations just for
modeling these 32,700 cars out of two million freight cars. And the
Westerfield models are the only ones available in HO, plus a few O-
scale brass models and zero in my S-scale (which I intend to do
something about eventually).

Jeff English
Troy, New York
through which Abraham Lincoln's train passed twice, going to his
inauguration and returning home for the sad last time.


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Scott Seders
 

Tim O'Connor wrote

If you want to sell a billion flat cars, bring out a really well detailed
52'6" TOFC flat with two well done trailers, and then bring it out in 42
paint schemes. I just hope when someone finally wakes up and smells this
coffee that the car they choose is an SP F-70-10, but most likely is that
Walthers will realize their AAR flat is a potential gold mine. Of course
it has to be better than the ancient Athearn model or it will fall flat.
Hobbyists will pay for high quality, Kadee proved that.


Has Walthers announced an AAR flat car or is this one of the "well kept secrets" :) of upcoming models?

Scott Seders


Re: Special Anouncement regarding Cocoa Beach... READ if you are coming...

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

First, I would like to thank Greg Martin for initiating and developing this clinic concept and another thanks goes to Bob Walker and Dennis Storzek of Accurail for supplying the parts. Further thanks goes to Digital Fox, 5th Avenue Shops and Richard Hendrickson for their assistance.

For those signing up after noon today, it would be useful to send a copy of your message to Jeff Aley, Clinic Chairman:[ jeff.a.aley@intel.com ]

Thanks
Mike Brock


Re: Special Anouncement regarding Cocoa Beach... READ if you are coming...

jerryglow2
 

Hopefully you can provide handouts or make the information available
for those unable to attend or get one of the limited seats. This
looks like a worthy project and I commend you and those supporting
the effort.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, tgregmrtn@a... wrote:

Folks,

My clinic at Cocoa Beach will be a somewhat hands on clinic, well
not
exactly hands on... But you will be given a Cross-Kit conversion--
THANKS TO
ACCRURAIL-- to convert their ARR boxcar to a KCS 15500 to 15599
rebuilt boxcar that
utilizes the ACCURAIL USRA DS underframe. The handout will
include the
original Jeff Koeller drawings. Set of near-scale decal layout
drawings, a step by
step photo supported layout of the kit under re-construction and
the use of
some relatively new techniques and the styrene to create the kit.

The ACCRAIL parts have been donated by Bob Walker and Dennis
Storzek of
ACCRAIL and will no cost to the group.

HOWEVER; the clinic will be presented only once and limited to
the first 25
members who sign up!

ACCRAIL has also been kind enough to donate PROTO COUPLERS to
accompany the
project and we will be installing them at the clinic as it
doesn't interfere
with the substructure of the kit, hands on.

I do hope to have the custom decals completed for the clinic but
in case
they are not they will be mailed to those in attendance who were
part of the
group at a later date... I may have missed my deadline with RAIL
GRAPHICS. So
don't bitch, you will get them... 3^)

If you're not familiar with the car here is a link to a photo of
the car

_http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/kcs/kcs15599am.jpg_
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/kcs/kcs15599am.jpg)

There were a total of 92 cars rebuilt in this group of which over
80 were
still in revenue service beyond 1960.

The focus of the clinic is to stimulate the Cross-Kit
conversions and good
modeling, that will for me (and hopefully you) lead to more
rebuilt cars such
as the Santa Fe post war rebuilds using the ACCRAIL kits as they
are the
only means to the end with the loss of the C&BT cars, but if you
have these C&BT
cars with some re-engineering the same process can be used. The
KCS car is
an interesting prototype with the entire brake system on the same
side of the
car.

AGAIN, THE SPACE FOR THIS CLINIC IS LIMITED SO CONTACT MIKE BROCK
IF YOU ARE
GOING TO BE THERE AND WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS CLINIC... DO NOT
CONTACT ME
OR JEFF ALLEY, CONTACT MIKE BROCK... The kit and contents are
free!

My deepest thanks go out in advance to Bob and Dennis of ACCRAIL,
as well as
Digital Fox and 5th Avenue Car Shops for technical advice and
Jeff Koeller
and Richard Hendrickson on prototype information and support.

See you in a couple of weeks...

Greg Martin




CCB Ad

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Greg martin's post made me think of a way of using a very complimentary reply Gene Green made to a post I made on another group.

So, here's my promotion for 'Prototype Rails'.

Mike Moore and I will be giving a presentation showing ideas for building a prototype layout. We will use my layout as an example. I hope this and Greg's post will wet everyone's appetite for this upcoming meet.

The following is from Gene's post. Thank you Gene.

I've had the privilege of seeing Clark's layout. It is really nicely done. Clark was very
creative in what was and was not modeled.

I can't really tell if Clark used any "selective compression." I
suppose he did but it is a compliment to his skill that you don't
notice.

Anyone with a modicum of familiarity with the M&StL's trackage in Mason
City will recognize what they are looking at on the entire layout. You
know you've been there.

Two other features of Clark's layout are noteworthy. he has made
efficient and even clever use of his space and, second, the way he has
done things permits him to accommodate visitors very comfortably.

Gene Green


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

I will second the motion for CNW (CSt.PM&O) and PRR K8 stock cars in
addition to any number of NYC flats, gons, and box cars from the late
30s-early '50s period. These cars were all over the place on the PRR
in the early '50s and it is not unusual to see loaded foreign road stock
cars outnumbering the PRR owned cars coming east or empty on WBD's
enroute to interchange points to return to their home roads. Had to get
them off theproperty as soon as possible to avoid the per diem!

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote



FWIW, I have photos showing C&NW and D&RGW stock cars off-line in
places as far away from home rails as Southern California, Southern
Arizona, and Western Washington.

Add CStPM&O at Union Furnace, PA in 1951, and a C&NW at Binghamton NY
in 1959. Also D&RGW, Santa Fe, NP and GN in Iowa. GN in Denver, usw.

Tim O'Connor





Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Unproduced frt cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I know Westerfield has the NYC USRA 40' boxcar in various forms, and I have
3 to build, but I really need this car in similar quantities as the Red
Caboose X29's so while I will take pride in the Westerfield cars I have, I'd
still like to see them in plastic. (How's that for one sentence!)

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Greg, you are aware Stan R does have parts to convert the F30a to F30d?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: <tgregmrtn@aol.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unproduced frt cars



Tim O'Connor writes:

If you want to sell a billion flat cars, bring out a really well
detailed
52'6" TOFC flat with two well done trailers, and then bring it out in 42
paint
schemes. I just hope when someone finally wakes up and smells this coffee
that the car they choose is an SP F-70-10, but most likely is that
Walthers
will realize their AAR flat is a potential gold mine. Of course it has to
be
better than the ancient Athearn model or it will fall flat.
Hobbyists will pay for high quality, Kadee proved that.<



Tim and all,

A good ( I say good not great, you have to take the time to make them
great)
F30a is available from Bowser for the first batch of TTX cars and the
Walthers GSC car will work for UP cars, but can you see what is missing
here... A
company to provide the aftermarket parts in styrene or Resin to complete
the
project just like CANNON does for diesels. Someone needs to do the same
for the
parts I need to 'fix" the F30a to a d with the hitches and rub rails and
I
am willing to pay. But for heavens sakes don't take advantage or will be
the
tooling scrap pile for your efforts. If Verlinden could do it for the
Military
guys you would think there would be a profitable venture some forth in
our
end of the hobby. Then comes the trailers although the trailers seem to
be
ahead of the horse... 3^)

Greg Martin








Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Unproduced frt cars

Ron Morse <ronstrainshop@...>
 

I'll 2nd that.......in O scale.
Ron Morse
NYC/C&O O scale in Springfield,MO



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@g...> wrote:

Mike and list,

I know what mine is in N scale - a 36 foot ventilated boxcar,
preferably an
ACL 17000-series. These cars were used by all the roads on the
South and
were seen all over the Eastern half of the USA.

It's the "screen door" that makes it a bear to try to scratchbuild.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast
-------------------------------------------------

Mike Brock writes:


Jeff English notes about the number of unproduced models of frt
cars [ in
HO scale ]:

My point is only that there's plenty more to be produced and we're
not out of the woods yet.

Given that, what car do you now believe should be on the Most
Wanted List?
Let's add that the car should be commonly found on at least 5
major Class I
RRs. We might even want two categories...one for injection
molding in which
large numbers of the prototype are required...and two for a resin
car in
which such large numbers would not be necessary.

My first choice for category #1...from a strictly unbiased point
of view:

The AAR Alternatre Standard 34 ft offset side hopper car.

Mike Brock....running for cover


Special Anouncement regarding Cocoa Beach... READ if you are coming...

Greg Martin
 

Folks,

My clinic at Cocoa Beach will be a somewhat hands on clinic, well not
exactly hands on... But you will be given a Cross-Kit conversion-- THANKS TO
ACCRURAIL-- to convert their ARR boxcar to a KCS 15500 to 15599 rebuilt boxcar that
utilizes the ACCURAIL USRA DS underframe. The handout will include the
original Jeff Koeller drawings. Set of near-scale decal layout drawings, a step by
step photo supported layout of the kit under re-construction and the use of
some relatively new techniques and the styrene to create the kit.

The ACCRAIL parts have been donated by Bob Walker and Dennis Storzek of
ACCRAIL and will no cost to the group.

HOWEVER; the clinic will be presented only once and limited to the first 25
members who sign up!

ACCRAIL has also been kind enough to donate PROTO COUPLERS to accompany the
project and we will be installing them at the clinic as it doesn't interfere
with the substructure of the kit, hands on.

I do hope to have the custom decals completed for the clinic but in case
they are not they will be mailed to those in attendance who were part of the
group at a later date... I may have missed my deadline with RAIL GRAPHICS. So
don't bitch, you will get them... 3^)

If you're not familiar with the car here is a link to a photo of the car

_http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/kcs/kcs15599am.jpg_
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/kcs/kcs15599am.jpg)

There were a total of 92 cars rebuilt in this group of which over 80 were
still in revenue service beyond 1960.

The focus of the clinic is to stimulate the Cross-Kit conversions and good
modeling, that will for me (and hopefully you) lead to more rebuilt cars such
as the Santa Fe post war rebuilds using the ACCRAIL kits as they are the
only means to the end with the loss of the C&BT cars, but if you have these C&BT
cars with some re-engineering the same process can be used. The KCS car is
an interesting prototype with the entire brake system on the same side of the
car.

AGAIN, THE SPACE FOR THIS CLINIC IS LIMITED SO CONTACT MIKE BROCK IF YOU ARE
GOING TO BE THERE AND WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS CLINIC... DO NOT CONTACT ME
OR JEFF ALLEY, CONTACT MIKE BROCK... The kit and contents are free!

My deepest thanks go out in advance to Bob and Dennis of ACCRAIL, as well as
Digital Fox and 5th Avenue Car Shops for technical advice and Jeff Koeller
and Richard Hendrickson on prototype information and support.

See you in a couple of weeks...

Greg Martin


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Greg Martin
 

Brian writes:

"Greg, you are aware Stan R does have parts to convert the F30a to F30d?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY'


Yes, absolutely and the correct decals as well for both TTX and the PRR
F30a. My point is that there is a whole area here of projects that a styrene or
resin product in conjunction with a styrene (or resin kit) soul make a project
entirely possible and open more doors for those of us who aren't afraid to
open a box of part and build a kit.

Greg Martin
Salem, OR (additional information added for compliance purposes) 3^)


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Tim O'Connor
 

I don't disagree with that choice Greg, but I usually don't ask
for plastic versions of cars that are already available in very
high quality resin, especially if I only want 1 or 2. I'd like to
see more NYC rebuilds (esp. postwar) in resin...

Tim O.

I would rather see the NYC 40-foot boxcar that we have beat to death on
this list... I am going to make sure it gets done... and Not in Resin...
Greg Martin


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

FWIW, I have photos showing C&NW and D&RGW stock cars off-line in
places as far away from home rails as Southern California, Southern
Arizona, and Western Washington.
Add CStPM&O at Union Furnace, PA in 1951, and a C&NW at Binghamton NY
in 1959. Also D&RGW, Santa Fe, NP and GN in Iowa. GN in Denver, usw.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 25, 2005, at 12:13 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Tim Gilbert says:

Regarding DRG&W, C&NW Stock Cars, it might be hard for a modeler of
most
other roads to justify having any of these stock cars on his line;
Man...what an interesting statement to consider. If Tim had merely
said..."many" instead of most, it would be easy to reject...the C&NW
part.
Consider the number of RRs in the "midwest". C&EI, C&IM, CGW, Soo,
Monon,
MP, Milw, Q, Pennsy, B&O, C&O, NYC, IC, ATSF, Southern, MK&T on and on
and
on. A C&NW stock car could easily be found on these roads but are they
the
majority?
Easterners don't "get it" about stock cars – how many there were, how
widespread and varied the livestock traffic was, and how widely the
stock cars of such major stock haulers as Santa Fe, MILW, C&NW, and
Burlington traveled off-line in interchange – in the same way that
westerners like me have some difficulty understanding those who are
begging for, say, models of N&W hoppers. It's not that most of us
don't need stock car models; the problem is that there were hardly any
"standard" stock cars that were used by a number of different RRs, the
notable exceptions being the Mather cars modeled by Life-Like and the
post-Harriman cars owned by the SP, UP, and their subsidiaries. A case
might be made for modeling the latter in styrene, but models of C&NW
stock cars would only be correct for the C&NW, etc., and barring
profound changes in the marketplace I can't imagine a mfr. of
injection-molded styrene models making the substantial investment in
tooling that would be required. That's why I wrote earlier that such
cars are a better bet in resin than styrene (and note that Westerfield
and Sunshine already offer a number of models for, e.g., MILW and MP
stock cars which will almost certainly never be offered in styrene).
FWIW, I have photos showing C&NW and D&RGW stock cars off-line in places as far away from home rails as Southern California, Southern
Arizona, and Western Washington.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Tim Gilbert wrote

According to the April 1949 ORER, there were about 301,000 Gons listed
as owned by Class I RR's in the US: - about 206,000 or 68% of them had
Solid Bottoms; about 71,000 or 24% were Drop Bottom Gons where the load
could be dumped to the Side; and the remaining 24,000 or 8% were Drop
Bottom Gons where the load could be dumped between the rails. 62,000 of
the 71,000 Side Dumping Gons were owned by the Western RR's where over
2/3's gons owned were side dumpers.

Yes, Tim, that is correct. The GS gondolas were very numerous in the west,
and many thousands more were built in the 1950's. Was there a point to your
recitation? That kits should not be manufactured for western roads? I can
easily name a dozen models of eastern prototypes that stayed close to home
for the most part.


... manufacturers can be reasonably reluctant to release kits or RTR
versions of models of these stock cars because of lack of perceived market.

Yes!

This is the accepted conventional wisdom, and is applied universally except
when it is not applied, which is quite often -- That's why we have Pfaudler
milk cars (both steel and wood), Santa Fe and UP and PRR stock cars, PRR and
N&W hopper cars, an ART reefer which numbered a whopping 450, and so on.


A better case for marketing can be made for specific hoppers, gons &
flat cars appearing on a variety of railroads ...

You seem to be operating under the delusion that the hobby market cares
about prototypical operations. What the market goes for is often a mystery.
Lots of gaudy paint schemes really helps. Appeal to a large segment like
PRR modelers helps a lot too. There are many cars that travelled on almost
every railroad for 30-40 years but we'll probably never get models of them
(like the UTLX X-3's) because of the simple fact that most buyers are not
interested in the prototype.


If you want to sell a billion flat cars, bring out a really well detailed
52'6" TOFC flat with two well done trailers, and then bring it out in 42
paint schemes. I just hope when someone finally wakes up and smells this
coffee that the car they choose is an SP F-70-10, but most likely is that
Walthers will realize their AAR flat is a potential gold mine. Of course
it has to be better than the ancient Athearn model or it will fall flat.
Hobbyists will pay for high quality, Kadee proved that.


I am less than excited over the recent release of 65' mill gons.

Since my club models a large steel mill, I can't say I'm unhappy with it.
And big mill gons show up in photos carrying pipes, structural steel,
prefabricated stuff, bridge girders, etc -- so I think many hobbyists
will be very happy with them. Even R.H. has been known to model them.


It would be best to ascertain what these generic designs were, and
provide manufacturers with information as to what roads had them.

Have I been asleep the last 8 years, or isn't that exactly what we've
been doing? We don't just "provide" information -- We're in their faces
at trade shows, and prototype meets, and we've got allies at magazines
and publications. The AAR "alternate" standard was widely adopted -- by
eastern, southern, midwestern and western roads. That's why as Richard
points out, it's currently being worked on.* Hopefully it won't turn out
to be another PS2 2893, with several vendors doing the same car and at
the same time, ignoring equally numerous alternatives.

* after years of relentless lobbying


The problem with post-1960 modelers may be the lack of appreciation for
the cars built in prior generations as part of their model freight car
fleets.

???? Tim, why would the desire to have post-1959 models of cars which did
not exist in 1959 indicate a lack of appreciation for earlier cars? That's
like saying if Richard Hendrickson wants to model an F7 then that indicates
he lacks appreciation for the FT.

Sheesh.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Anyway, talk is cheap and what the manufacturers need is reasonable
input (not the usual "we really need Missabe Road box cars and me and
my five friends will buy a whole bunch) plus the prototype data,
drawings, and photos needed to produce the models. Providing it is
what I spend a lot of my time doing these days, thus helping to
insure that we all have a very happy new year.
My sense of where we are is the list of undone cars that can be both
physically correct (within our standards of reasonableness) and correctly
painted in 5 or more roadnames (the usual threshold) is, by taking into
account hints and rumors, dwindling away rather rapidly towards zero. If
not soon, then the year after soon. 8-)

If that is true then we're faced with a future of either (a) no new cars, or
(b) recycling existing tooling with paint variations, or (c) cars that are
correct for just a few roads, maybe even just one road, but painted for
many, as numbers are needed to amortize the tooling.

And it seems that Accurail is moving towards (c) -- that GN stock car for
instance.

If I may add to *that* list (instead of following the criteria that mfgrs
have used over the last 10 years), I would put:

* two western GS gondolas... at least one of which having inset sides at the
side sill and the other 46' long;

* a Harriman "style" stockcar;

* one or more single sheathed, low height boxcars, such as the C&NW 1921
standard;

* post WWI low height steel boxcar (a.k.a. NYC);

* A 1932 boxcar;

* A pre WWII design acid tank car;

And so on.

I doubt any of the above qualify under the 5 road names criteria, yet with
consideration to the engineering, none of the above can be dismissed out of
hand as "not particular representative of the national fleet".

Going down this path means lots of things for bozos to buy, one or two
correct models per suggestion for the rest of us, and a green light to the
better mfgr's to build to the historical spec but paint for the market.
Because if they don't, either the lesser mfgr's will OR all of us get stuck
with choices (a) or (b) above.

Dave Nelson


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim Gilbert says:

Regarding DRG&W, C&NW Stock Cars, it might be hard for a modeler of most
other roads to justify having any of these stock cars on his line;
Man...what an interesting statement to consider. If Tim had merely said..."many" instead of most, it would be easy to reject...the C&NW part. Consider the number of RRs in the "midwest". C&EI, C&IM, CGW, Soo, Monon, MP, Milw, Q, Pennsy, B&O, C&O, NYC, IC, ATSF, Southern, MK&T on and on and on. A C&NW stock car could easily be found on these roads but are they the majority?

A better case for marketing can be made for specific hoppers, gons &
flat cars appearing on a variety of railroads although there may be
limits to their normal range of operations. Hoppers were generally tied
to coal mines, and the majority of loads from any mine were owned by the
road servicing that mine - there were exceptions and strays, but these
were usually in the minority.
Yes, but how about the other end....the destinations? Too many people in the past just figured that Appalachian coal went from the source to Norfolk or Sperry's Point or other seaport. We've since learned that much more went into the industrial "midwest" and to the Great Lake ports. The primary "source" RRs might be C&O, N&W, B&O, L&N, Pennsy, and WM with a few others as well. While some served the industrial areas, many did not...N&W, L&N, and WM coal moved on many other RRs to their destinations. Videos of NKP and B&O trains reveal many N&W hoppers. Solid trains of N&W hoppers can be found both in video and still photography moving coal north to the Great Lakes on Pennsy and NYC tracks. My point? If you model any RR in the "midwest" you need N&W, B&O and C&O hoppers.

Mike Brock

136881 - 136900 of 186254