Date   

Re: Unproduced frt cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Denis Blake says about the "32 car":

No matter what a few of us on this list
think, the Seaboard Air Line and the Missouri Pacific, being the major
owners of these cars, do not have enough sales potential to justify the
production of these cars....
Perhaps. If so, then such other, even more unique cars such as the B&O round top or even the X29 would not be viable. Yes, the X29 might not be strictly Pennsy but it certainly isn't a car of a number of well known RR's. As the MR public DOES become more aware, hopefully, projects such as the "32" will become more "doable".

Mike Brock


Re: Unproduced frt cars

seaboard_1966
 

The 32 car would be an excellent car and I have discussed this car with a major manufacturer and they have said that there are too many variations to make it a profitable venture. Too many roofs and end variations that would cost too much to tool up and produce. Also, the lack of MAJOR roads owning these cars is a problem as well. No matter what a few of us on this list think, the Seaboard Air Line and the Missouri Pacific, being the major owners of these cars, do not have enough sales potential to justify the production of these cars....

Denis Blake
Columbus, OH

----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryglow2" <jerryglow@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:39 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unproduced frt cars


I agree although think the '32 ARA/AAR would be more desireable as
it goes more to the heart of this list's era of concentration. The
Fowler car trails off considerably - I know I have a few of Al's and
will run them in my late 40's sessions but drop for 50s. Of course
as a MP modeler, I'm prejudiced as they were a big user of the '32
car which was seen in various sub roads, variations of paint scheme
etc.

Jerry Glow


Re: Unproduced frt cars

jerryglow2
 

"Readily available" is the byword as Sunshine cars aren't necessarily
continuouly available if at all.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:


I don't disagree with that choice Greg, but I usually don't ask
for plastic versions of cars that are already available in very
high quality resin, especially if I only want 1 or 2. I'd like to
see more NYC rebuilds (esp. postwar) in resin...

Tim O.


Re: Unproduced frt cars

jerryglow2
 

I agree although think the '32 ARA/AAR would be more desireable as
it goes more to the heart of this list's era of concentration. The
Fowler car trails off considerably - I know I have a few of Al's and
will run them in my late 40's sessions but drop for 50s. Of course
as a MP modeler, I'm prejudiced as they were a big user of the '32
car which was seen in various sub roads, variations of paint scheme
etc.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Earl Tuson" <etuson@s...> wrote:

I would suggest the 40' "Fowler" box cars.
lots of snipping
They shouldn't be any worse to tackle than an injection molded '32
ARA/AAR, and were numerically more significant when considering the
total built.

Earl Tuson


GSC "Commonwealth" 54' Flat Cars.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Sirs,

For which railroad in mid 50's is this type correct?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-3776
(And i still don't have the 8.000 gallon UTLX car by Proto 2000,
who is willing to sell one of they're unbuiled kits?)

Regards,
Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.


Can there be a car for most RR's?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim Gilbert says:

"Just like Boxcars, there were "generic" designs for hoppers, gons &
general service flat cars which, if released in kit or RTR form, could
make such releases "money makers." It would be best to ascertain what
these generic designs were, and provide manufacturers with information
as to what roads had them."

And, Richard Hendrickson says:

"A case
might be made for modeling the latter in styrene, but models of C&NW
stock cars would only be correct for the C&NW, etc., and barring
profound changes in the marketplace I can't imagine a mfr. of
injection-molded styrene models making the substantial investment in
tooling that would be required. That's why I wrote earlier that such
cars are a better bet in resin than styrene (and note that Westerfield
and Sunshine already offer a number of models for, e.g., MILW and MP
stock cars which will almost certainly never be offered in styrene).
FWIW, I have photos showing C&NW and D&RGW stock cars off-line in
places as far away from home rails as Southern California, Southern
Arizona, and Western Washington."

Greg Martin adds:

I have seen plenty CNW stock cars on the PRR in the mid-50's, perhaps more
than PRR stock cars as well as NP and "Q" cars... So, why not a good styrene
"Q" stock car and a good CNW stock car? They would sell.


Tim, Richard and Greg note the fact that stock cars are rather unique to specific RR's. One might argue that there is some analogy to...gasp...a variety of N&W hoppers which, while unique, were built in great numbers and could be found all over the industrial midwest and Pochantas region. From what we read, it appears that stock cars may have wandered even more...perhaps in a similar vein to box cars. In recent yrs, due to strenuous efforts by many that inhabit the STMFC, the fact that foreign frt cars are a GOOD thing may be getting through to at least those that inhabit the STMFC. Will that notion ever be understood by the general buying public? Probably not but, if it was, a car unique to a single RR that went far and wide would be a viable choice I would think. IOW, it MIGHT not be necessary to produce a frt car common to 5 or so RR's IF the buying public knew the car would be found on their choice of RR...no matter WHICH RR...and in multiples...as Greg suggests.

Mike Brock


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Earl Tuson
 

Dave Nelson suggested:

* one or more single sheathed, low height boxcars, such as the C&NW 1921
standard;
I would suggest the 40' "Fowler" box cars. Available in urethane in HO (Westerfield,) styrene in O (San Juan) and TT (Gold Coast,) and soon in styrene in S (Gold Coast aka Pacific Rail Shops,) it might be a good injection molded car for HO, as similar cars were used by: CNW-7000 cars, CMO-1500, CRI&P-8200, D&RG-1500, M&StL-500 + 602 second hand, MR-15, and RF&P-200. Some RI cars also later went to Salzberg shortlines. Certainly, there are detail differences among the roads' cars (e.g. single sheathed ends on most with steel ends on all RF&P cars, the M&StL cars that came from RF&P, and some CRI&P cars.) However, keep in mind that these were from well before the era of standardized freight car designs (built from 1913 into the 1920's (I don't have the dates on the later steel end CRI&P cars handy.)) They shouldn't be any worse to tackle than an injection molded '32 ARA/AAR, and were numerically more significant when considering the total built.

Earl Tuson


Re: Can there be a car for most RR's?

Greg Martin
 

In part Mike closes with:

"IF the buying public knew the car would be found on their choice of RR...no
matter WHICH RR...and in multiples...as Greg suggests.

Mike Brock"


Mike's marketing abilities are gleaming through...

Richard and I make a practice of reviewing marketable prototypes at the end
of each summer and the list continues to grow, some are covered as was the
case with the 65-foot mill gondola and others are still on the "hit list".

The market is ready for several "stand alone" prototypes such as the B&O
Covered Wagon Box car (by the way we believe has been tooled just not released)
and the NYC AAR 40-foot box (with both ends) is an other good example of a
car that needs to be done and just hasn't. Others include the Santa Fe Re-built
reefers with plug doors, who could refuse a few of these in a consist (other
than those that don't model the depth of the transition era?) and how about
the Santa Fe RR-54 to 56 early mechanicals? But what Mike says rings true...

Not taking anything away from Ted Culotta's efforts in RMC on his series of
essential freight cars, but if I could make one criticism of the effort, it
is that it stops short of the true freight car revolution. It fails to deal
with the PS-1's in it's continuing evolution of roof changes, end changes and
underframe changes, as well as AC&F's entries into welded cars. However; the
good that Ted has done is to raise the bar on awareness and to that end I
compliment him.

Perhaps what we do need is a parallel set of articles that introduce the
cars where Ted leaves off. Can a working stiff like myself do it alone, NO WAY!
I don't have the luxury of being at home as I am the primary bread winner.
Sound familiar? Well, the goal should still be that we meet the goal head on
and if we were all as proactive as say Monte Switzer and did at least one
article a year on the era from 1948 through and including 1960 then we would
attract even more attention to the general public and to ourselves with the
producers. Let's face it, Richard Hendrickson and Ted Culotta can not accomplish
all that we need to have them do... They shouldn't...

All of us have a special interest in our Railroad and our little part of the
world, even Elden doesn't want to model the PRR in Philly... So, if we were
to put forth just one article a year to a given magazine then we might
achieve our goal in about 25 years or so... 3^) Sometimes, I just like to think
outside the box, and work on a "lark" as they say, like the KCS car, but I
guarantee you I have other motives for this Cross-kit-conversion and it will lead
to the PRR at some point... But as I have said I have 1 NP stock car and I
have scratch-kit-bits from my brothers "Q" cars that appeared in MM, but I
want several and I want a CNW car as well, and why because the photo evidence
shows they were their regardless of the national stat's... I want Santa Fe plug
door rebuilt reefers and I want several and mechanicals, be them ATSF, PFE
or FGE prototypes... We are far from done. The pipeline needs to remain full
for at least tem more years and as we pass then the Baby boomer can complete
their wish list with the next generation MR producers...


So to believe that prototype specific cars will not sell is silly and I
think some may just have their heads in the sand. Numbers don't lie and look at
the sales of the R50b and I know of at least two fellows that turned me down
on the project...

"We want the world and we want it now!"

Greg Martin


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:

Jeff English notes about the number of unproduced models of frt cars
[ in
HO scale ]:

My point is only that there's plenty more to be produced and we're
not out of the woods yet.
<snip>
My first choice for category #1...from a strictly unbiased point of
view:

The AAR Alternatre Standfard 34 ft offset side hopper car.

Mike Brock....running for cover
I'd like to second the motion. AAR Alternate Standard 34 ft. offset
side hopper car would be nice.
Gene Green


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Scott Pitzer
 

He means
Walthers "ex-Life-Like" Proto 2000 line.
Scott Pitzer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: sseders@comcast.net
Sent: Dec 26, 2005 9:20 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unproduced frt cars

Tim O'Connor wrote

If you want to sell a billion flat cars, bring out a really well detailed
52'6" TOFC flat with two well done trailers, and then bring it out in 42
paint schemes. I just hope when someone finally wakes up and smells this
coffee that the car they choose is an SP F-70-10, but most likely is that
Walthers will realize their AAR flat is a potential gold mine. Of course
it has to be better than the ancient Athearn model or it will fall flat.
Hobbyists will pay for high quality, Kadee proved that.


Has Walthers announced an AAR flat car or is this one of the "well kept secrets" :) of upcoming models?

Scott Seders







Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: RCJ/RPC/Clubs/etc.

Justin Kahn
 

I always think of Rail Car Journal as "Cockle (editor)" rather than "Kratville (publisher)." I have almost a complete set (lacking only the second issue on refrigerator, which seems to be particularly popular) with a few extras. I find it often useful, although more limited than I should like, as they have a number of unusual historical views. So far as I can tell, most of the captions are accurate (unlike the laughable H&M series).
I have some of the Casdorph, which were all over the map (topically and choronologically); they have their uses, if one can pick and choose which issues to buy.
A last thought about RPC's direction: I make no apologies for favoring shortlines (which mostly solves the problem of being able to operate fully without joining a club), so while I have some passenger equipment, it is scarcely class I. Virtually all common freight cars can logically appear on the C&C, but frontline passenger equipment, such as the lightweights of #11, are of negligible use to me. I applaud Pat and Ed's decision to a division of responsibility with Ted Culotta on modeling articles, as we minority-scale modelers will not feel so marginalized in choosing between them.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:35:01 -0800
From: Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: freight car magazines

Ed Mines wrote:
Anyone know the story of the Kratville series of freight car magazines
printed around 1980?
Not sure what Ed means by "story" here. They are a most
miscellaneous collection of photos, obviously whatever Bill had at
hand, with many oddball cars and a certain number of railroad PR
photos, and sometimes erroneous captions. That said, they can be useful
sources of info. I have issues 1 through 5, which I think is all there
ever were. You see them for sale occasionally. Bill told me that the
sales were abysmal.

How about the "Freight Car Journal"? I subscribed (or was a member)
for a while but the subject matter didn't interest me - it was mostly
current stuff but every so often a pre1900 drawing would show up. This
magazine
(or society) is long defunct, right?
I'm not sure if it's still around, though someone on the list
will know. My reaction was exactly like yours: poor focus, and a
tendency to do contemporary cars (they did do a nice issue on the
historical IC fleet).

"Prototype Modeler" and it's predicessor regional magazines had a lot
of freight car articles. I was sorry when they stopped publishing.
Richard hendrickson wrote some articles for them. I wonder what the
story was?
Money (not enough of it) after it was sold. Richard Hendrickson
may want to add more.

Tony Thompson
_________________________________________________________________
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Re: NYC box car decals

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Culotta <tculotta@s...> wrote:
"Also, the paint data triangles
appear to be something that came with the Gothic lettering schemes.
Is
this correct or did they appear sooner?"

Ted, the photos that I quickly looked at show that the Paint
Data Triangles definitely do pre-date the Gothic lettering. I have
them going back at least to 1951, but I suspect that they may even
go back to the very late 1940's. Perhapes the good Mr. English
up in New York state can help use here.


Seasons Greeting To All, and
a Happy New Year (let's hope
we get many new "correct" freight
cars in the coming year).

Jerry Stewart

Chicago, Ill.


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Jeff English
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@b...> wrote:

I know Westerfield has the NYC USRA 40' boxcar in various forms,
and I have
3 to build, but I really need this car in similar quantities as
the Red
Caboose X29's so while I will take pride in the Westerfield cars I
have, I'd
still like to see them in plastic. (How's that for one sentence!)

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
Well, Brian, the NYC USRA-clone all-steel box cars are a good
illustration of what I'm talking about. AFAIK, the Westerfield kits
are the only available HO models of these cars, and not counting
variations in lettering and doors, there are, what, four variations
available? (single- or double-door, Murphy or Dreadnaught ends). If
you count every variation of what would be a distinct "shell" for
modeling purposes, the NYC USRA-clone all-steel box cars would
require at least thirteen shells to model only the as-built
variations (that I can think of off the top of my head without
studying the situation). Later rebuilds add several more distinct
shells required. Now you have shells and then you can start dealing
with doors, trucks, KC-to-AB brake conversions, and all the various
paints schemes and you have hundreds of permutations just for
modeling these 32,700 cars out of two million freight cars. And the
Westerfield models are the only ones available in HO, plus a few O-
scale brass models and zero in my S-scale (which I intend to do
something about eventually).

Jeff English
Troy, New York
through which Abraham Lincoln's train passed twice, going to his
inauguration and returning home for the sad last time.


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Scott Seders
 

Tim O'Connor wrote

If you want to sell a billion flat cars, bring out a really well detailed
52'6" TOFC flat with two well done trailers, and then bring it out in 42
paint schemes. I just hope when someone finally wakes up and smells this
coffee that the car they choose is an SP F-70-10, but most likely is that
Walthers will realize their AAR flat is a potential gold mine. Of course
it has to be better than the ancient Athearn model or it will fall flat.
Hobbyists will pay for high quality, Kadee proved that.


Has Walthers announced an AAR flat car or is this one of the "well kept secrets" :) of upcoming models?

Scott Seders


Re: Special Anouncement regarding Cocoa Beach... READ if you are coming...

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

First, I would like to thank Greg Martin for initiating and developing this clinic concept and another thanks goes to Bob Walker and Dennis Storzek of Accurail for supplying the parts. Further thanks goes to Digital Fox, 5th Avenue Shops and Richard Hendrickson for their assistance.

For those signing up after noon today, it would be useful to send a copy of your message to Jeff Aley, Clinic Chairman:[ jeff.a.aley@intel.com ]

Thanks
Mike Brock


Re: Special Anouncement regarding Cocoa Beach... READ if you are coming...

jerryglow2
 

Hopefully you can provide handouts or make the information available
for those unable to attend or get one of the limited seats. This
looks like a worthy project and I commend you and those supporting
the effort.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, tgregmrtn@a... wrote:

Folks,

My clinic at Cocoa Beach will be a somewhat hands on clinic, well
not
exactly hands on... But you will be given a Cross-Kit conversion--
THANKS TO
ACCRURAIL-- to convert their ARR boxcar to a KCS 15500 to 15599
rebuilt boxcar that
utilizes the ACCURAIL USRA DS underframe. The handout will
include the
original Jeff Koeller drawings. Set of near-scale decal layout
drawings, a step by
step photo supported layout of the kit under re-construction and
the use of
some relatively new techniques and the styrene to create the kit.

The ACCRAIL parts have been donated by Bob Walker and Dennis
Storzek of
ACCRAIL and will no cost to the group.

HOWEVER; the clinic will be presented only once and limited to
the first 25
members who sign up!

ACCRAIL has also been kind enough to donate PROTO COUPLERS to
accompany the
project and we will be installing them at the clinic as it
doesn't interfere
with the substructure of the kit, hands on.

I do hope to have the custom decals completed for the clinic but
in case
they are not they will be mailed to those in attendance who were
part of the
group at a later date... I may have missed my deadline with RAIL
GRAPHICS. So
don't bitch, you will get them... 3^)

If you're not familiar with the car here is a link to a photo of
the car

_http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/kcs/kcs15599am.jpg_
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/kcs/kcs15599am.jpg)

There were a total of 92 cars rebuilt in this group of which over
80 were
still in revenue service beyond 1960.

The focus of the clinic is to stimulate the Cross-Kit
conversions and good
modeling, that will for me (and hopefully you) lead to more
rebuilt cars such
as the Santa Fe post war rebuilds using the ACCRAIL kits as they
are the
only means to the end with the loss of the C&BT cars, but if you
have these C&BT
cars with some re-engineering the same process can be used. The
KCS car is
an interesting prototype with the entire brake system on the same
side of the
car.

AGAIN, THE SPACE FOR THIS CLINIC IS LIMITED SO CONTACT MIKE BROCK
IF YOU ARE
GOING TO BE THERE AND WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS CLINIC... DO NOT
CONTACT ME
OR JEFF ALLEY, CONTACT MIKE BROCK... The kit and contents are
free!

My deepest thanks go out in advance to Bob and Dennis of ACCRAIL,
as well as
Digital Fox and 5th Avenue Car Shops for technical advice and
Jeff Koeller
and Richard Hendrickson on prototype information and support.

See you in a couple of weeks...

Greg Martin




CCB Ad

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Greg martin's post made me think of a way of using a very complimentary reply Gene Green made to a post I made on another group.

So, here's my promotion for 'Prototype Rails'.

Mike Moore and I will be giving a presentation showing ideas for building a prototype layout. We will use my layout as an example. I hope this and Greg's post will wet everyone's appetite for this upcoming meet.

The following is from Gene's post. Thank you Gene.

I've had the privilege of seeing Clark's layout. It is really nicely done. Clark was very
creative in what was and was not modeled.

I can't really tell if Clark used any "selective compression." I
suppose he did but it is a compliment to his skill that you don't
notice.

Anyone with a modicum of familiarity with the M&StL's trackage in Mason
City will recognize what they are looking at on the entire layout. You
know you've been there.

Two other features of Clark's layout are noteworthy. he has made
efficient and even clever use of his space and, second, the way he has
done things permits him to accommodate visitors very comfortably.

Gene Green


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

I will second the motion for CNW (CSt.PM&O) and PRR K8 stock cars in
addition to any number of NYC flats, gons, and box cars from the late
30s-early '50s period. These cars were all over the place on the PRR
in the early '50s and it is not unusual to see loaded foreign road stock
cars outnumbering the PRR owned cars coming east or empty on WBD's
enroute to interchange points to return to their home roads. Had to get
them off theproperty as soon as possible to avoid the per diem!

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote



FWIW, I have photos showing C&NW and D&RGW stock cars off-line in
places as far away from home rails as Southern California, Southern
Arizona, and Western Washington.

Add CStPM&O at Union Furnace, PA in 1951, and a C&NW at Binghamton NY
in 1959. Also D&RGW, Santa Fe, NP and GN in Iowa. GN in Denver, usw.

Tim O'Connor





Yahoo! Groups Links








Re: Unproduced frt cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I know Westerfield has the NYC USRA 40' boxcar in various forms, and I have
3 to build, but I really need this car in similar quantities as the Red
Caboose X29's so while I will take pride in the Westerfield cars I have, I'd
still like to see them in plastic. (How's that for one sentence!)

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Greg, you are aware Stan R does have parts to convert the F30a to F30d?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: <tgregmrtn@aol.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unproduced frt cars



Tim O'Connor writes:

If you want to sell a billion flat cars, bring out a really well
detailed
52'6" TOFC flat with two well done trailers, and then bring it out in 42
paint
schemes. I just hope when someone finally wakes up and smells this coffee
that the car they choose is an SP F-70-10, but most likely is that
Walthers
will realize their AAR flat is a potential gold mine. Of course it has to
be
better than the ancient Athearn model or it will fall flat.
Hobbyists will pay for high quality, Kadee proved that.<



Tim and all,

A good ( I say good not great, you have to take the time to make them
great)
F30a is available from Bowser for the first batch of TTX cars and the
Walthers GSC car will work for UP cars, but can you see what is missing
here... A
company to provide the aftermarket parts in styrene or Resin to complete
the
project just like CANNON does for diesels. Someone needs to do the same
for the
parts I need to 'fix" the F30a to a d with the hitches and rub rails and
I
am willing to pay. But for heavens sakes don't take advantage or will be
the
tooling scrap pile for your efforts. If Verlinden could do it for the
Military
guys you would think there would be a profitable venture some forth in
our
end of the hobby. Then comes the trailers although the trailers seem to
be
ahead of the horse... 3^)

Greg Martin








Yahoo! Groups Links






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