Date   

Re: Unproduced frt cars

jerryglow2
 

Ahem, no it dosen't - it's 6" shorter in height. If that were the
case, why bother with the '37 and "modified '37" or '42 car or
whatever you want to call it. Once again "only" 6" difference in
height. Aside from my personal prejudice as a MP modeler, IMHO,
the '32 is a "historically significant" car by design. It just
happened to be introduced in the Depression era when car orders were
minimal. For whatever their reasons MP bought big on them, they never
did buy the '37 car having enough of the former. T&P did buy some '37
cars which our estemed Mr Hawkins did in a limited run years ago using
the Jerry Porter tooled IMWX (now Red Caboose) car.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pieter_roos" <pieter_roos@y...> wrote:

I suspect that part of the problem is that the B&O "wagon top" round
roof and X29 are both distinctive enough to warrent some attention.
To a majority of the market place the 1932 car probably looks "just
like" the 1937 AAR boxcar that is already available in plastic. >
Pieter Roos


Re: Unproduced frt cars

jerryglow2
 

No I realize they are both separate cars both deserving
representation in one's fleet regardless of road modeled. I think
the personal story was just to emphasize how influential the PRR was
and should be in one's "mix" Sorry Mike and other UPers - as a MP
modeler it's a personal thing and you can get me to extend the same
consideration....

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@b...> wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:46:05 -0000, jerryglow2 wrote
Even I will admit X29s are "universal" regardless of road
modeled. I
remember the 1st resin kit I bought was one of Al's USRA single
sheathed cars and I agonized over what road to choose. Even as
an
avowed "Pennsy hater" at the time, I had to admit that was the
best
choice due to sheer numbers and visibility.
Jerry, it sounds like you are confusing the X29 with the PRR X26,
or are
these two distinct thoughts?

Brian Carlson


Re: Extreme Modeling/how crazy am I!?

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

I gather you guys are not big purchasers of RTR plastic cars ;-)

regards,

Andy Miller


Re: Orange/Grey GP9 by Western Pacific.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Yes sorry.
Silver that's better............
And thanks for the answer.

Regards,
Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@s...>
wrote:

In the 50's, did the Orange/Grey GP9 by Western Pacific also
travelled
with the U.P. GP9 types on U.P. tracks?
Not at all. There was no particular relationship at all
between
UP and WP in that era, and it was before the time when railroads
shared
locomotive hours back and forth. BTW, it would orange and silver, not
gray.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Extreme Modeling/how crazy am I!?

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Welch asked:
I am curious to know how others on the list have gone over the edge.
Once when I was scratchbuilding an asymmetrical tank car (center dome and a dome at one end), I had made the center sills and was applying rivet strips everywhere there would be rivets, including places which would never be visible once the car was assembled. I remember stopping in the middle and asking myself, "what am I doing here??" I will now confess that I did not finish putting on all the invisible rivets. (The car did do well in NMRA contests once finished, having survived a drop to the floor--but that's another story.)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Orange/Grey GP9 by Western Pacific.

Tony Thompson
 

In the 50's, did the Orange/Grey GP9 by Western Pacific also travelled
with the U.P. GP9 types on U.P. tracks?
Not at all. There was no particular relationship at all between UP and WP in that era, and it was before the time when railroads shared locomotive hours back and forth. BTW, it would orange and silver, not gray.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Extreme Modeling/how crazy am I!?

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

I have been working on building three Pressed Steel tank cars, which
were inspired by Richard H's article in issue # 1 of RPMJ, stretching
the Tichy underframes rather than shortening the tanks however.

Over the last couple of days I have been working on the small dome
platform walkway that was always on the left side of these builders
cars. In doing so I am absolutely sure I have gone over the edge and
into the territory known as "extreme modeling." I decided first to
create some .04 brass strip to form the support brackets since this
material is easy to cut and bend but gives a close to scale thickness.

I had done similar brackets for the two Sunshine X-3's I had built,
which for those cars I pinned to the tank side with .12 brass wire,
one at the top and one at the bottom, even though it would have more
faithful if I had used two at each position. The wire was left
sticking out enough to look like a rivet head. It looked good when
painted.

This time however I decided to drill the correct two holes at the top
and bottom of each bracket and create rivets to hold the bracket to
the car side. I created the rivets by pounding the end of the wire
until it was too big to go through the hole in the bracket. When done
I will apply the ACC on the inside of the tank to hold the "rivet" in
place, as I am too big to crawl inside and pound it from the inside.

I am guessing I will have 10 to 12 hours in this process of creating
the six brackets, the 24 rivets and dry fitting to each tank side. I
will not try to describe here the process by which each bracket was
attached temporarily to each tank side so that the holes could be
drilled into the tank sides in just the right place, but perhaps you
get the picture.

I do enjoy stretching myself like this, while at the same time
thinking this is truly nuts. I am sure this started when I started
modeling the drooping chain that is connected to the brake cylinder.
Ironically I don't try to model cut levers.

I am curious to know how others on the list have gone over the edge.

Bill Welch


Re: Unproduced freight cars.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

During our era, livestock was commonly shipped all over the country. It was a huge industry, and the meat packing industry that was served was huge also. We were then (and still are) a meat-eating people!

1) Grass-fed cattle from the southwest and plains states were transported by the millions to Iowa, and Illinois farms for fattening on grain (corn) prior to slaughter.

2) These "fat cattle" were then transported again by the millions for slaughter to the centralized meat packing house centers of Chicago, Kansas City, Omaha, St. Paul, Albany, Los Angeles and San Francisco (among others).

3) Cattle of all sorts and breeds were also mass transported across country in all directions everywhere imaginable merely to build and rebuild herds

4) I have not mentioned the transport of fat hogs to markets as far away as Iowa to California, or the transport of sheep to market, but also between summer and winter grazing areas (and v.v.).

So, just with this knowledge, it becomes eminently understandable why one should not be the least bit surprised to find a Milwaukee or C&NW stock car in Los Angeles, a Pennsy car in Des Moines, or a Rock Island car in Albany, NY- in all a potential field day for the critical modeler! The nature of the business was no respecter of the territories of individual railroads.

Times have changed, of course. The meat packing industry is now completely decentralized. Cattle are no longer fattened on the individual family farm, feed lots nearer to the markets now serving the same purpose. Instead of shipping the cattle to the grain, the grain is now shipped (by TRUCK) to the cattle.

To get an idea of the historical scope of this business, understand that the millions of acres of corn historically grown in Illinois, Iowa and adjacent states was not then (or is now) for human consumption (it tastes terrible). It was grown then only for one reason: livestock feed (of course, now there are other uses as well, oil and alcohol).

Disclosure: My family forebears were all Iowa farmers who historically most commonly purchased cattle in western Nebraska and South Dakota, shipped them to their Iowa farms for fattening, and lastly shipped them once again to the Chicago markets for slaughter.

To sort of illustrate my thoughts, my very favorite photo of a Milwaukee Road stock car is a wonderful color view of a loaded car hanging on the tender of a UP Challenger or Big Boy (they look alike, don't they?) at the head of a long drag on Sherman Hill.

Denny




--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Orange/Grey GP9 by Western Pacific.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Sirs,

Me again.
In the 50's, did the Orange/Grey GP9 by Western Pacific also travelled
with the U.P. GP9 types on U.P. tracks?

I can buy a very cheap proto 2000 loc, but i want to know for shure.

Regards,
Arnold van Heyst,
Netherlands.


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Pieter Roos
 

I suspect that part of the problem is that the B&O "wagon top" round
roof and X29 are both distinctive enough to warrent some attention.
To a majority of the market place the 1932 car probably looks "just
like" the 1937 AAR boxcar that is already available in plastic. I
might guess that part of the success of the Red Caboose X29 and
Kadee PS-1s is that they have obviously better quality detail than
earlier models of the same cars - clearly evident to people who
might have no idea that they are also more accurate. If a new 1932
AAR car were clearly superior in detail to the existing AAR kits it
might well sell as simply a "better" steel boxcar.

I would think that arguably anything from Ted's "Essential Freight
Cars" series, except the handful Ted himself designated as "un-
essential" like the vinegar tank car, would warrent consideration as
a mass-produced model. Probably not all the variations of the single
sheathed cars that are close to the Accurail model, but most of the
resin-only kits that make the cut for the series should qualify. I
know they are all already "available" as resin kits, but what
percentage of modelers can even FIND a Sunshine kit much less build
a bunch of them.

Pieter Roos


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:


Denis Blake says about the "32 car":

No matter what a few of us on this list
think, the Seaboard Air Line and the Missouri Pacific, being the
major
owners of these cars, do not have enough sales potential to
justify the
production of these cars....
Perhaps. If so, then such other, even more unique cars such as the
B&O round
top or even the X29 would not be viable. Yes, the X29 might not be
strictly
Pennsy but it certainly isn't a car of a number of well known
RR's. As the
MR public DOES become more aware, hopefully, projects such as
the "32" will
become more "doable".

Mike Brock


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:46:05 -0000, jerryglow2 wrote
Even I will admit X29s are "universal" regardless of road modeled. I
remember the 1st resin kit I bought was one of Al's USRA single
sheathed cars and I agonized over what road to choose. Even as an
avowed "Pennsy hater" at the time, I had to admit that was the best
choice due to sheer numbers and visibility.
Jerry, it sounds like you are confusing the X29 with the PRR X26, or are
these two distinct thoughts?

Brian Carlson


Re: Unproduced frt cars

jerryglow2
 

Even I will admit X29s are "universal" regardless of road modeled. I
remember the 1st resin kit I bought was one of Al's USRA single
sheathed cars and I agonized over what road to choose. Even as an
avowed "Pennsy hater" at the time, I had to admit that was the best
choice due to sheer numbers and visibility.

But going back to Dennis' comment about the '32 cars taking that
further, you could rule out just about anything. I guess we could
just take the Walthers approach and just paint it in the "holy 13"
and let the modelers sort it out themselves. :(

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:


Denis Blake says about the "32 car":

No matter what a few of us on this list
think, the Seaboard Air Line and the Missouri Pacific, being the
major
owners of these cars, do not have enough sales potential to
justify the
production of these cars....
Perhaps. If so, then such other, even more unique cars such as the
B&O round
top or even the X29 would not be viable. Yes, the X29 might not be
strictly
Pennsy but it certainly isn't a car of a number of well known
RR's. As the
MR public DOES become more aware, hopefully, projects such as
the "32" will
become more "doable".

Mike Brock


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

I have two new (HO) candidates not yet mentioned.

First are the postwar rebuild box cars. They are distinctive in their
side sill adaptation of wide bodies to narrower AAR underframes. My
particular interest is in the PRR X29b's and d's, But other RRS did
the same. Tichy makes a model of an obscure PMcK&Y car like this, but
its dimensions are inappropriate for any other road.

The second candidate is a small tank car. Trix botched the 6k gal cars
recently and no one else has ever attempting anything like it. There
were some very interesting 4-6k gal cars, often in the ever popular
colorful schemes of private owners. I have kitbashed a model of a 4k
gal Ethyl tank car,
(http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/millera/ebax3064main.h
tml) but would love a kit for others like it.

regards,

Andy Miller


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Denis Blake says about the "32 car":

No matter what a few of us on this list
think, the Seaboard Air Line and the Missouri Pacific, being the major
owners of these cars, do not have enough sales potential to justify the
production of these cars....
Perhaps. If so, then such other, even more unique cars such as the B&O round top or even the X29 would not be viable. Yes, the X29 might not be strictly Pennsy but it certainly isn't a car of a number of well known RR's. As the MR public DOES become more aware, hopefully, projects such as the "32" will become more "doable".

Mike Brock


Re: Unproduced frt cars

seaboard_1966
 

The 32 car would be an excellent car and I have discussed this car with a major manufacturer and they have said that there are too many variations to make it a profitable venture. Too many roofs and end variations that would cost too much to tool up and produce. Also, the lack of MAJOR roads owning these cars is a problem as well. No matter what a few of us on this list think, the Seaboard Air Line and the Missouri Pacific, being the major owners of these cars, do not have enough sales potential to justify the production of these cars....

Denis Blake
Columbus, OH

----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryglow2" <jerryglow@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:39 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unproduced frt cars


I agree although think the '32 ARA/AAR would be more desireable as
it goes more to the heart of this list's era of concentration. The
Fowler car trails off considerably - I know I have a few of Al's and
will run them in my late 40's sessions but drop for 50s. Of course
as a MP modeler, I'm prejudiced as they were a big user of the '32
car which was seen in various sub roads, variations of paint scheme
etc.

Jerry Glow


Re: Unproduced frt cars

jerryglow2
 

"Readily available" is the byword as Sunshine cars aren't necessarily
continuouly available if at all.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:


I don't disagree with that choice Greg, but I usually don't ask
for plastic versions of cars that are already available in very
high quality resin, especially if I only want 1 or 2. I'd like to
see more NYC rebuilds (esp. postwar) in resin...

Tim O.


Re: Unproduced frt cars

jerryglow2
 

I agree although think the '32 ARA/AAR would be more desireable as
it goes more to the heart of this list's era of concentration. The
Fowler car trails off considerably - I know I have a few of Al's and
will run them in my late 40's sessions but drop for 50s. Of course
as a MP modeler, I'm prejudiced as they were a big user of the '32
car which was seen in various sub roads, variations of paint scheme
etc.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Earl Tuson" <etuson@s...> wrote:

I would suggest the 40' "Fowler" box cars.
lots of snipping
They shouldn't be any worse to tackle than an injection molded '32
ARA/AAR, and were numerically more significant when considering the
total built.

Earl Tuson


GSC "Commonwealth" 54' Flat Cars.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Sirs,

For which railroad in mid 50's is this type correct?
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-3776
(And i still don't have the 8.000 gallon UTLX car by Proto 2000,
who is willing to sell one of they're unbuiled kits?)

Regards,
Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.


Can there be a car for most RR's?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim Gilbert says:

"Just like Boxcars, there were "generic" designs for hoppers, gons &
general service flat cars which, if released in kit or RTR form, could
make such releases "money makers." It would be best to ascertain what
these generic designs were, and provide manufacturers with information
as to what roads had them."

And, Richard Hendrickson says:

"A case
might be made for modeling the latter in styrene, but models of C&NW
stock cars would only be correct for the C&NW, etc., and barring
profound changes in the marketplace I can't imagine a mfr. of
injection-molded styrene models making the substantial investment in
tooling that would be required. That's why I wrote earlier that such
cars are a better bet in resin than styrene (and note that Westerfield
and Sunshine already offer a number of models for, e.g., MILW and MP
stock cars which will almost certainly never be offered in styrene).
FWIW, I have photos showing C&NW and D&RGW stock cars off-line in
places as far away from home rails as Southern California, Southern
Arizona, and Western Washington."

Greg Martin adds:

I have seen plenty CNW stock cars on the PRR in the mid-50's, perhaps more
than PRR stock cars as well as NP and "Q" cars... So, why not a good styrene
"Q" stock car and a good CNW stock car? They would sell.


Tim, Richard and Greg note the fact that stock cars are rather unique to specific RR's. One might argue that there is some analogy to...gasp...a variety of N&W hoppers which, while unique, were built in great numbers and could be found all over the industrial midwest and Pochantas region. From what we read, it appears that stock cars may have wandered even more...perhaps in a similar vein to box cars. In recent yrs, due to strenuous efforts by many that inhabit the STMFC, the fact that foreign frt cars are a GOOD thing may be getting through to at least those that inhabit the STMFC. Will that notion ever be understood by the general buying public? Probably not but, if it was, a car unique to a single RR that went far and wide would be a viable choice I would think. IOW, it MIGHT not be necessary to produce a frt car common to 5 or so RR's IF the buying public knew the car would be found on their choice of RR...no matter WHICH RR...and in multiples...as Greg suggests.

Mike Brock


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Earl Tuson
 

Dave Nelson suggested:

* one or more single sheathed, low height boxcars, such as the C&NW 1921
standard;
I would suggest the 40' "Fowler" box cars. Available in urethane in HO (Westerfield,) styrene in O (San Juan) and TT (Gold Coast,) and soon in styrene in S (Gold Coast aka Pacific Rail Shops,) it might be a good injection molded car for HO, as similar cars were used by: CNW-7000 cars, CMO-1500, CRI&P-8200, D&RG-1500, M&StL-500 + 602 second hand, MR-15, and RF&P-200. Some RI cars also later went to Salzberg shortlines. Certainly, there are detail differences among the roads' cars (e.g. single sheathed ends on most with steel ends on all RF&P cars, the M&StL cars that came from RF&P, and some CRI&P cars.) However, keep in mind that these were from well before the era of standardized freight car designs (built from 1913 into the 1920's (I don't have the dates on the later steel end CRI&P cars handy.)) They shouldn't be any worse to tackle than an injection molded '32 ARA/AAR, and were numerically more significant when considering the total built.

Earl Tuson

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