Date   

Re: Freight TRAIN Consists

armprem
 

Tim,This topic needs greater discussion.The railroads that I model had
large amounts of "Bridge Traffic".As a result many trains would not switch
local industries.
Every car on my roster has TWO cards.One remains in the box with the
car.This card contains the following information:Road,road number,type.On
the reverse side:source,date built,cost,weight,matching
color,trucks,couplers,weights and any other data such as repairs or added
parts and lastly current value.Rather than just more paper the cards are a
source of information for insurance purposesThe other car card has a pocket
and follows the car until it reaches its destination or is returned to
storage.I do have some blank consist forms but rarely use them.Much of the
paper work would be in place prior to an ops session.
I would be interested in your comments.Armand Premo--- Original
Message -----
From: <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight TRAIN Consists


Tony Thompson wrote

There is a simple way to do this, by creating some "random" draws
of car cards, along with a pattern in most industry deliveries and
shipments. I used to do a clinic on "realistic operation" which covered
how I did this. It was not particularly complicated to devise nor at
all labor intensive to implement.
Tony, EVERYTHING at a club with 600-700 freight cars is labor intensive
and difficult to implement (and especially to repeat month in/month out).
Randomness can be more sublime when it is coupled with rules. I don't
want a 2 bay PS2 assigned to the wheat elevator for example. But that
means that club members must be able to distinguish a 2 bay PS2 from
a single door box car. For you a piece of cake, for some some members
of the club, quite a challenge! :-)

You think I'm kidding, right? I'm not.

On the other hand, rules for oddball cars should ensure that they do
not show up all the time. Some may only be seen once a year.
I worked up some of these "oddball" appearances, though none so
rarely as "once a year!" Now that's a rare car, but of course realistic
in a sense.
If you only operate 20-24 times a year like the North Shore club, once
a year is not as infrequent as it seems. In a year we might get through
6 to 7 "days" of railroad operation.

An infrequent visitor might be a depressed center flat car, or a Southern
Pacific stock car (this is West Virginia after all)... Not the kind of
cars you
want to see frequently, but they're nice to see occasionally :-)

Tim O.




Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Unproduced frt cars

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

ed_mines wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote: "train set bozos"

You mean new guys? It would be nice to keep the hobby going.

[snip]

You younger guys should encourage the train set guys. Hope that some
of them will take up the slack when the old timers go to the great
beyond.

FWIW Ed from what I see the youngsters are building 3d cad models for Train
Sim's and completely ignoring 3d plastic models. My guess is when the old
timers go the only ones around that might pick up the slack are persons who
are already doing model railroading today.

Dave Nelson


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists

Tony Thompson
 

Tony, EVERYTHING at a club with 600-700 freight cars is labor intensive
and difficult to implement (and especially to repeat month in/month out).
Randomness can be more sublime when it is coupled with rules. I don't
want a 2 bay PS2 assigned to the wheat elevator for example. But that
means that club members must be able to distinguish a 2 bay PS2 from
a single door box car. For you a piece of cake, for some some members
of the club, quite a challenge! :-)
I didn't make myself clear. NONE of the randomness could wrongly assign car types: it was random as to destination but linked with car type and lading.

If you only operate 20-24 times a year like the North Shore club, once
a year is not as infrequent as it seems. In a year we might get through
6 to 7 "days" of railroad operation.
Ah. I thought you meant 365 days of OPERATION. Whew.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Tim O'Connor
 

As Ed Mines has said, we need to encourage those train set guys.
Gene Green
Gene, I agree the 'bozos' are helping us out, but most of what they are
buying does us no good at all. Schuyler posted an article link on sales at
Lionel and MTH, which are currently BOOMING -- sales have tripled in the
last few years. Atlas has been crowing about their new "Trainman" line
and if you like Lionel, then you'll like Trainman, is all I have to say about
that junk.

Also 'bozos' does not explain Branchline's success.... There must be more
than a few people who want good stuff and are willing to build it. Or maybe
there is just one really rich nutcase buying it all! ;-)

Tim O.


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony Thompson wrote

There is a simple way to do this, by creating some "random" draws
of car cards, along with a pattern in most industry deliveries and
shipments. I used to do a clinic on "realistic operation" which covered
how I did this. It was not particularly complicated to devise nor at
all labor intensive to implement.
Tony, EVERYTHING at a club with 600-700 freight cars is labor intensive
and difficult to implement (and especially to repeat month in/month out).
Randomness can be more sublime when it is coupled with rules. I don't
want a 2 bay PS2 assigned to the wheat elevator for example. But that
means that club members must be able to distinguish a 2 bay PS2 from
a single door box car. For you a piece of cake, for some some members
of the club, quite a challenge! :-)

You think I'm kidding, right? I'm not.

On the other hand, rules for oddball cars should ensure that they do
not show up all the time. Some may only be seen once a year.
I worked up some of these "oddball" appearances, though none so
rarely as "once a year!" Now that's a rare car, but of course realistic
in a sense.
If you only operate 20-24 times a year like the North Shore club, once
a year is not as infrequent as it seems. In a year we might get through
6 to 7 "days" of railroad operation.

An infrequent visitor might be a depressed center flat car, or a Southern
Pacific stock car (this is West Virginia after all)... Not the kind of cars you
want to see frequently, but they're nice to see occasionally :-)

Tim O.


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists

Shawn Beckert
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

I would like to inject the idea that MODELING freight train consists
on layouts is not precisely the same thing as understanding what a
particular prototype may have done at a particular point in time...
In my opinion, if your layout represents a mainline railroad, you are
going to have a particular mix of model cars on your layout and you will
need staging and you will need to have train consists that
(1) represent 'possible' or reasonably realistic consists given your
location and time period and scenarios
(2) are variable, so that trains do not all look exactly alike and may
even cause an occasional incredulous 'Wow, I didn't expect that' but
on reflection you may agree surprises are part of the real world
experience of train watching.

I would agree that, given time, space and budget constraints, most of us
can only approximate in 1:87 (or whatever) what the real thing did in terms
of what industries were served and how specific trains might have looked.
Still, the more research and information you have, the more you can at least
recreate the feel or look of your particular railroad in a given time frame.

Ten years ago or so I fooled around with software that combined an
amount of randomness coupled with a number of 'rules' and I ran thousands
of train consists simulating dozens of years of operations at the North
Shore RR club.
Every now and then I would get really interesting results, but generally
train consists were highly consistent with their purpose and types of cars
and the road names and destinations of cars.
Sounds like "Ship It" or other such programs. Maybe you should have packaged
your version and marketed it to the rest of us?

On a private layout, you can control the exact mix of equipment according
to the fleet statistics carefully compiled by Tim Gilbert and other folks
that have made studies of conductors' books and interchange records. But
personally I think a layout that completely lacks the occasional oddball car
is diminished if you operate it a lot, because it starts to seem very
predictable and routine. On the other hand, rules for oddball cars should
ensure that they do not show up all the time. Some may only be seen once a
year.
I have no problem with the occasional unusual car or block of cars running
across the railroad, but with enough detective work on what kind of industry
might have needed that "oddball" car and when, you can at least narrow down
what that car might have looked like and how often to run it.

Shawn Beckert


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists (Long)

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
wrote:

Elden wrote (ages ago it seems) a long post on the subject
of researching the freightcar consists of freight trains, in
particular those of the Pennsy, in order to model that road's
trains in a more accurate manner. This is (another) subject dear to
my heart; now that we're past the Christmas rush and it's a quiet
day at the mouse factory, I'll attempt to address some of his
comments:

I wanted to pass on that this is a subject of great interest to
me, and also of GREAT frustration, because so few complete
sources
of information exist.
Very true, and someone talked about the various documents that the
railroads did - and didn't - keep around for any length of time. The
railroads seemed to be much better at holding on to the records and
diagrams of freightcar construction (lucky for us) than they were at
keeping documents on how and where they were used. Some of the items
we'd like to know (number and types of cars in train, their origin
and destination, etc.) will never be known, because 99.9% of the
wheel
reports, switchlists and conductors logs were tossed long ago. <
snip>


Shawn,

Sadly that is true, and most of them went into the waste basket at
the end of the work day. And I was guilty of doing it from 1960 to
2001. I only have a few wheel reports from my working days and wish
I had more. Working an average of 300 days a year for all those
years would have resulted in a large pile of paper. And my
interest in railroading was during the 1940's and 50's, even when I
was 20 years old.

Most railroader's interests did not include, railroads and preserving
their history. Their many concern was doing their jobs and
collecting the paycheck, so their switch lists and wheel reports went
into the trash can. Many did keep their conductors books though and
that is where much of the information we have today came from. The
railroads kept records long enough to satisfy the auditors and to
provide a back up source of reference to deal with lost cars, etc.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Ten years ago or so I fooled around with software that combined an amount
of randomness coupled with a number of 'rules' and I ran thousands of train
consists . . .
Unfortunately, layouts that use car cards are not amenable to this approach,
unless you want to deal with printing new waybills all the time. Car cards are
very labor intensive if you want to operate realistic and variable consists for
hundreds of cars. Also, variability means you have to have extra storage or
staging to handle all those 'occasional' cars.
There is a simple way to do this, by creating some "random" draws of car cards, along with a pattern in most industry deliveries and shipments. I used to do a clinic on "realistic operation" which covered how I did this. It was not particularly complicated to devise nor at all labor intensive to implement.

On the other hand, rules for oddball cars should ensure that they do not show
up all the time. Some may only be seen once a year.
I worked up some of these "oddball" appearances, though none so rarely as "once a year!" Now that's a rare car, but of course realistic in a sense.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Unproduced frt cars

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

All,
Let's not be too hard on the "train set bozos" or newbies or those
with a less developed sense of accuracy or whatever.

First, their money helps keep the hobby alive for the rest of us.
They may not buy freight cars of which we approve but they buy track,
power supplies, scenery materials, locomotives and so on.

Second, I started out as a train set bozo myself. I like to think
I've progressed some since then but so what if I haven't.

Without the less discriminating modelers, aka bozos, we'd all be
scratch builders because we aren't numerically superior enough to
keep any of the manufacturers in business.

Things may not always progress in exactly the direction we might wish
but every aspect of the hobby is getting better. New and better
freight cars come out regularly and that will continue. More and
more modelers are awakening to the fun (and frustration) of more
accurate modeling whether we are speaking of freight cars or scenery
or operation or locomotives or sound or control - you name it.

As Ed Mines has said, we need to encourage those train set guys.

Gene Green
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@o...> wrote: "train set bozos"

You mean new guys? It would be nice to keep the hobby going.

<snip>

You younger guys should encourage the train set guys. Hope that
some
of them will take up the slack when the old timers go to the great
beyond.

Ed


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists

Tim O'Connor
 

Shawn,

I would like to inject the idea that MODELING freight train consists on layouts
is not precisely the same thing as understanding what a particular prototype
may have done at a particular point in time...

In my opinion, if your layout represents a mainline railroad, you are going to
have a particular mix of model cars on your layout and you will need staging
and you will need to have train consists that

(1) represent 'possible' or reasonably realistic consists given your location and
time period and scenarios

(2) are variable, so that trains do not all look exactly alike and may even cause
an occasional incredulous 'Wow, I didn't expect that' but on reflection you
may agree surprises are part of the real world experience of train watching

Ten years ago or so I fooled around with software that combined an amount
of randomness coupled with a number of 'rules' and I ran thousands of train
consists simulating dozens of years of operations at the North Shore RR club.

Every now and then I would get really interesting results, but generally train
consists were highly consistent with their purpose and types of cars and the
road names and destinations of cars.

Unfortunately, layouts that use car cards are not amenable to this approach,
unless you want to deal with printing new waybills all the time. Car cards are
very labor intensive if you want to operate realistic and variable consists for
hundreds of cars. Also, variability means you have to have extra storage or
staging to handle all those 'occasional' cars.

On a private layout, you can control the exact mix of equipment according to
the fleet statistics carefully compiled by Tim Gilbert and other folks that have
made studies of conductors' books and interchange records. But personally I
think a layout that completely lacks the occasional oddball car is diminished if
you operate it a lot, because it starts to seem very predictable and routine.
On the other hand, rules for oddball cars should ensure that they do not show
up all the time. Some may only be seen once a year.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists (Long)

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Shawn,

It is called the CT1000 on the PRR and it lists every single siding on the Pennsy and its location by milepost. It was last issued in 1945. After that, there weren 't sufficient clerical forces to keep it current.

It is available on Jerry Britton's PRR Keystone Crossings website http://kc.pennsyrr.com

The "Arranged Freight Schedules" were in looseleaf form and pages were distributed whenever major changes were made.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-------------------------------------------------
Shawn .Beckert wrote

Elden wrote (ages ago it seems) a long post on the subject
of researching the freightcar consists of freight trains, in
particular those of the Pennsy, in order to model that road's
trains in a more accurate manner. This is (another) subject dear to
my heart; now that we're past the Christmas rush and it's a quiet
day at the mouse factory, I'll attempt to address some of his
comments:

I wanted to pass on that this is a subject of great interest to
me, and also of GREAT frustration, because so few complete sources
of information exist.

Very true, and someone talked about the various documents that the
railroads did - and didn't - keep around for any length of time. The
railroads seemed to be much better at holding on to the records and
diagrams of freightcar construction (lucky for us) than they were at
keeping documents on how and where they were used. Some of the items
we'd like to know (number and types of cars in train, their origin
and destination, etc.) will never be known, because 99.9% of the wheel
reports, switchlists and conductors logs were tossed long ago.

The advice I'd give on this subject is to try to re-create the blocks,
by establishing the industries served, their traffic needs, and car
types, by who was served by the yard that received each block, then
assembling the blocks into a train, which might be confirmed by data
on the number of cars per train. It is not exact, but MAY be closer
to what you need than you have currently.

This is pretty much the approach I've used in trying to determine what a
particular freight train might have looked like on the Southern Pacific
and Cotton Belt in the late 1950's and early 1960's. You mentioned a PRR
document called "Arranged Freight" - I'm going to assume this is similar
to Espee's "Schedule of Through Merchandise and Perishable Freight" that
was published on roughly an annual basis. This listed the freights that
currently ran on each route (Sunset, Coast, Overland, etc.) and the areas
or cities that they were (in theory) blocked for. How close SP/SSW followed
this book in making up trains is anybody's guess, but it gives you an idea
of how things were *supposed* to work.

Given the absence of documents or other definite information, your concept
of recreating a train consist based on the industries located in the region
it ran in is the best way to go, in my opinion. I've been lucky in that the
SP/SSW did make "side track records", "terminal directories" and "station
plans" that listed what industries were located on a particular line for
various time periods. A great many of these were saved and are in good hands
at the California State Railroad Museum library in Sacramento. An example is
the San Francisco peninsula; Espee made an "industry map" for the entire line
in August of 1958, showing every industry from the Embarcadero to South San
Francisco. A goldmine of information, it resides at the museum now and I
recently had a copy made for my own use.

I've been given the impression that a lot of Pennsylvania information and
documents have been preserved by various entities (like the PRRH&TS) and are
available for use. It might be fruitful to look and see if anything similar
to "station plans" or "side track records" are in their collections - at the
least it would be a good starting point for trying to recreate train consists.

Shawn Beckert


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists (Long)

Shawn Beckert
 

Elden wrote (ages ago it seems) a long post on the subject
of researching the freightcar consists of freight trains, in
particular those of the Pennsy, in order to model that road's
trains in a more accurate manner. This is (another) subject dear to
my heart; now that we're past the Christmas rush and it's a quiet
day at the mouse factory, I'll attempt to address some of his
comments:

I wanted to pass on that this is a subject of great interest to
me, and also of GREAT frustration, because so few complete sources
of information exist.
Very true, and someone talked about the various documents that the
railroads did - and didn't - keep around for any length of time. The
railroads seemed to be much better at holding on to the records and
diagrams of freightcar construction (lucky for us) than they were at
keeping documents on how and where they were used. Some of the items
we'd like to know (number and types of cars in train, their origin
and destination, etc.) will never be known, because 99.9% of the wheel
reports, switchlists and conductors logs were tossed long ago.

The advice I'd give on this subject is to try to re-create the blocks,
by establishing the industries served, their traffic needs, and car
types, by who was served by the yard that received each block, then
assembling the blocks into a train, which might be confirmed by data
on the number of cars per train. It is not exact, but MAY be closer
to what you need than you have currently.
This is pretty much the approach I've used in trying to determine what a
particular freight train might have looked like on the Southern Pacific
and Cotton Belt in the late 1950's and early 1960's. You mentioned a PRR
document called "Arranged Freight" - I'm going to assume this is similar
to Espee's "Schedule of Through Merchandise and Perishable Freight" that
was published on roughly an annual basis. This listed the freights that
currently ran on each route (Sunset, Coast, Overland, etc.) and the areas
or cities that they were (in theory) blocked for. How close SP/SSW followed
this book in making up trains is anybody's guess, but it gives you an idea
of how things were *supposed* to work.

Given the absence of documents or other definite information, your concept
of recreating a train consist based on the industries located in the region
it ran in is the best way to go, in my opinion. I've been lucky in that the
SP/SSW did make "side track records", "terminal directories" and "station
plans" that listed what industries were located on a particular line for
various time periods. A great many of these were saved and are in good hands
at the California State Railroad Museum library in Sacramento. An example is
the San Francisco peninsula; Espee made an "industry map" for the entire line
in August of 1958, showing every industry from the Embarcadero to South San
Francisco. A goldmine of information, it resides at the museum now and I
recently had a copy made for my own use.

I've been given the impression that a lot of Pennsylvania information and
documents have been preserved by various entities (like the PRRH&TS) and are
available for use. It might be fruitful to look and see if anything similar
to "station plans" or "side track records" are in their collections - at the
least it would be a good starting point for trying to recreate train consists.

Shawn Beckert


Re: Unproduced frt cars

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@o...> wrote: "train set bozos"

You mean new guys? It would be nice to keep the hobby going.

Maybe 8 years ago I has a P2K gon on my desk at work and I had
replaced the plastic parts with wire wherever it could be done.

A salesman who I ate lunch occasionally saw it on my desk and his
eyes lit up. That was nothing compared to his reaction when I turned
the car over to show the brake rigging.

I gave him a similarly assembled model a few months later. He told
me his son really liked the car too.

I guess some "men on the street" like detailed prototype models at
least as much as toy trains.

You younger guys should encourage the train set guys. Hope that some
of them will take up the slack when the old timers go to the great
beyond.

Ed


Re: Unproduced freight cars.

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@m...> wrote:
These "fat cattle" were then transported again by the millions for
slaughter to the centralized meat packing house centers of >
Chicago,
Kansas City, Omaha, St. Paul, Albany, Los Angeles and San Francisco
Albany, NY? How do you know that?

Stock cars are sparce in most of the photos I've seen of steam trains.
There is a stock train in an Erie steam video, but it's too unclear to
make out road names.

Ed


Re: Freight TRAIN Consists

SD9E@...
 

Tim is right on the point about the difficulty of setting up for op sessions
at large clubs. Some form of automation involving automatic car
identification is needed.

The idea of using bar codes has been tried in a few places and the report is
that it is labor intensive to maintain and gives more false reads that it
should.

RFID technology is the present great hope: many applications inthe civilian
and military fields are being implemented. Hopefully something of an "open
architecture" similar to what IBM published for the personal computer might
evolve among users. If that happens then costs will plummet and a club might be
able to put a tag in cach piece of rolling stock and afford a useful number of
scanners as well.

I am watching a particular RFID scanner that costs under $100 and has a read
range of less than three inches. It comes bundled with software for a PC and
connects via a USB cable. Sounds great but the most likely tag available
costs around $2.30 each in a buy of over 2000 pieces. If the open architecture
hope comes true the tags should come down in price a lot as manufacturing
capacity grows.

I am part of a working group in my club that is watching the RFID technology
and market as well as considering what form of software to develop and how
to make use of the system once it is installed. We hope that developments in
the next couple of years will allow us to field a system for our club.

Jeff Pape


extreme modeling

armprem
 

I quess my most extreme model has to be a Jordan Spreader that I scratch
built.After photographing and taking measurements I drew plans and started
cutting shim brass.The trucks,couplers,headlight,marker lights and smoke
stack were the only commercial parts.Everything else was fabricated out of
brass.I learned how to solder and even created some new swear words.(I had
used all of the old ones early in the project}.After weeks of construction I
finally completed the model.............it looked like I had hacked it out
with a stone ax.A friend saw it and "just had to have it".He offered a PFM
NP ten wheeler for it.I told him he had a deal, only I would keep it while I
made another one for myself.I had learned a great deal while working on the
first one.My friend has yet to see my second model which earned a blue
ribbon at an NMRA convention in Montreal.As long as he was happy ,so was
I.The model is still in service on my layout.Armand Premo


Re: GSC "Commonwealth" 54' Flat Cars.

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, I'd be happy to have more details on the Wabash cars.. I've seen
photos of both bulkhead and open deck cars but I don't think I've seen
a good view of the deck of either style. The Wabash bought them over a
3 year period so there may be differences between cars.

I have a scan of GM&O 72000 and I can see now that the depth of the
sides is shallower, although the overall profile is the same. Know of
any other examples of 50 ton 53'6" GSC flats?

Tim O'Connor

Not all GSC flats are created equal. These 1951 blt GM&O cars are 50 ton
cars and the side sill is different than the Walthers car. The steel
showing in the deck is also different. The deck of these '56 blt WABASH
cars is considerably different. The AT&SF 1952 Ft-W 93300-93499 and 1954
Ft-3 93500-93799 are very close to the Walthers car, the others I don't
know.

Later,
Bill Kelly


Re: Extreme Modeling/how crazy am I!?

Larry Kline
 

My most extreme model was my first O scale freight car model. I built a
World War II emergency twin hopper. The frame is brass, the side
stakes, hopper door frames, and hopper doors are Cerro Safe castings
from my brass patterns. I entered the model in the NMRA contest at the
1977 national convention in Denver and won first place competing
against a number of On3 and HOn3 freight car models. I posted an in
progress photo of the model in the STMFPH files section. The file name
is _WW II emergency twin hopper.jpg_

After building this model I realized that I had to choose between
scratch building a few highly detailed, prototypical freight car
models, or building a layout. I choose the layout. Fortunately, quite a
few prototypical O scale freight cars are now available in plastic and
resin.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Stock Cars

Marcelo Lordeiro <mrcustom@...>
 

Which are your comments regarding the new Intermountain stock cars?
Marcelo Lordeiro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Stock Cars


On Dec 27, 2005, at 1:34 PM, sshaffer wrote:

Livestock had to be off loaded every so many hours for feed and rest.
On
the Santa Fe it was common practice to reload the livestock on a Santa
Fe
car to continue the journey and send the foreign car home. So for now
I see
no need for any but Santa Fe stock cars in the area I model. Though
as I
gain knowledge of car movements, interchange, locations where the
livestock
were fed and rested I may change my requirements.
Steve what area do you model? You're certainly correct that reloading
stock into Santa Fe cars was common practice, but that assumes the
stock was unloaded in the first place, which was often not the case
(the rule was 18 hours, or 24 hours if the shipper signed a waiver, as
many did). Offhand, I can't think of any part of the Santa Fe that
wasn't frequented by off-line stock cars, as demonstrated by abundant
photographic and documentary evidence.

Richard Hendrickson





Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: GSC "Commonwealth" 54' Flat Cars.

Bill Kelly
 

Tim,
Not all GSC flats are created equal. These 1951 blt GM&O cars are 50 ton
cars and the side sill is different than the Walthers car. The steel
showing in the deck is also different. The deck of these '56 blt WABASH
cars is considerably different. The AT&SF 1952 Ft-W 93300-93499 and 1954
Ft-3 93500-93799 are very close to the Walthers car, the others I don't
know.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Tim wrote:


1951 -- GM&O 72000-72049
1952 -- ATSF 93275-93286
ATSF 93300-93499
MKT 15301-15325
1953 GM&O several groups w/ bulkheads
1954 ATSF 93500-93799
RDG 9300-9356
WABASH 100-249 (spread out orders to 1956)

and no doubt others...

Tim O.

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