Date   

Re: Freight car flooring

WALTER GAY <waltrail1@...>
 

We never painted the boards when we repaired flat car floors. I think they used oak though.

Walt
Grumpy ex-car knocker


St. Louis RPM: One or Two Day

golden1014
 

Guys,

Thanks to all for the comments about the upcoming St.
Louis RPM meet. A few thoughts before getting on to
STMFC business. I hosted a one-day meet in 2004 (90+
attendees) and in 2005 (145+ attendees) and I think
everyone who came had a great time. I've learned a lot
from attending the Naperville, Cocoa and Savannah
meets and am always trying to incorporate (steal) the
best ideas for St. Louis.

My focus has been a little different than other RPMs,
in that I only have one clinic running at a time which
limited me to five or six clinics total. With that in
mind, quality counts. I also prefer a different ratio
of historical societies (HSs) and vendors, in that I
wanted about 30% HSs, 25% vendors and the rest for
display tables and the local FreeMo group's layout.
Unlike other RPM meets, I want as many HSs as I can
get, and I've already got about eight lined up so far.

I must admit that I'm being tentative about two days.
The outlay for last year's was about $950 total. This
year--going with the 10,000 sq.ft. room, which is
double from last year--will run around $1600 for
everything. Down payment is about half, so that's $800
coming out of my pocket. I've done a reasonable
estimate and the math is telling me that I'll break
even, but if attendance is down 20% by some reason
then this is going to hurt. All receipts over my
expenditures go to the clinicians.

FYI, I conduct my RPM so that I (and my helpers) don't
make a cent. No profit, period. I don't want to go
into a big discussion why, but it's the best way to do
do business for an RPM meet. I'm lucky that I have an
understanding wife that I can sink $800 into nothing
and come out with my $800--a pretty poor investment by
anyone's standards. Counting what I spend at Bob's
Photos, I usually come out in the red.

I haven't worked up a speakers list yet, but
tentatively we're looking at a good list to choose
from, including Hedrickson, Wider, Hawkins, and others
big shots, and I'm trying to persude some different
names out as well--more to follow on that later. This
meet is also different in that I have a lot more
modern modelers present, so the speaker list is
different than at other meets such as Naperville. And
if I get desperate I could always invite Clark and
Mike down to talk about Mason City.

On to the mandatory content. After two years of
waffling I finally ordered some resin and will start
casting up some Seaboard G-6 and G-7 gondolas and also
some B-4 and B-5 box car sides in the next few weeks.
I'll post some photos when I get one cast up and
built, and if anybody would like some parts just let
me know and I'll send you some for a couple of bucks.
The G-6 cars will be the rebuilt cars with steel sides
(c.1949) and the G-7 cars will be composite (good
through very early 50s).

BTW, if you have thoughts or comments or ideas about
St. Louis RPM, please e-mail me off-line at
Golden1014@yahoo.com so we don't choke the STMFC list.

John




Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:31:22 -0800 (PST)
From: jaley <jaley@pcocd2.intel.com>
Subject: Re: one or two day

On Jan 13, 6:41pm, Clark Propst wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] one or two day
At CCB John Golden confided to me that he was
considering lengthening
the St Louis Meet to two days. I thought (with Mike's
indulgence) we
could
help him decide.

So I ask, without John's permission: Should he
expand his cash outlay
for that extra day?

Thanks,
Clark Propst

Clark,

A one-day meet is a good way to start because it
minimizes
overnight hotel bills for the attendees. In order to
expand to two
days,
one has to be sure that there is enough value for an
attendee to want
to
pay for an overnight stay (or two).

I think some of the "value" comes from the quantity
and quality of
the clinics. If there are enough high-quality clinics
for two days,
then
I suggest he try it.

Of course, one must also bear in mind that John
Golden is probably
not making a huge profit from his meet (if he is, I
wish he'd share the
secret!), so there may not be any extra $$ to pay for
hotel facilities
for
a second day (unless he raises the admission price).

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


John Golden
O'Fallon, IL
http://www.pbase.com/golden1014


C&O black box car

Ron Morse <ronstrainshop@...>
 

I have a photo of C&O black box car #19400 that I shot in
Muskegon,Michigan, in May 1957, the built date is 5-57 it has DF-9 on
the side.
I will post a photo later in the day.
Ron Morse
NYC/C&O O scale in Springfield,MO


Re: ACF type 27 8K Navy, Gas & Supply Co. (CTTX) reweigh questions

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Tuscon isn't a place, it's a color normally associated with the Pennsylvania
Railroad.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni
Duckingforcover, TN

From: Mike Brock <brockm@brevard.net>
Reply-To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:30:11 -0500
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ACF type 27 8K Navy, Gas & Supply Co. (CTTX) reweigh
questions

Tony Thompson writes:

"Tuscon?" Where in the world is Tuscon?

It's about 500 miles from Fhenix. Whadaya expect from someone that's been in
a coma for a week?

Mike Block


Re: ACF type 27 8K Navy, Gas & Supply Co. (CTTX) reweigh questions

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson writes:

"Tuscon?" Where in the world is Tuscon?

It's about 500 miles from Fhenix. Whadaya expect from someone that's been in a coma for a week?

Mike Block


Re: Freight car flooring

jerryglow2
 

Smelled a flat car lately? It seems to me they had that distinct
aroma.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "leedennegar" <leedennegar@y...> wrote:



If I'm not mistaken, the purpose of creosote and modern pressure
treatments is to protect wood from bacteria, fungi and insects that
live in the soil. This is why it's used for wood that is in contact
with the ground such as ties, fenceposts, etc.

Since car floor are at least a yard off the ground, creosote would
be
next to worthless.

BTW, "dry rot" is a misnomer: it only attacks wood that becomes wet
occasionally (from rain, usually). Although freight cars get rained
on, I'm far from sure creosote would add any protection worth the
time
and trouble.

Am I wrong, anyone?


Lee Dennegar
Piscataway, NJ.


Re: questions about RDG freight cars,AHM box cars, Sunshine Seaboard/...

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

Perhaps you should buy Ted Culotta's book on the 1932 ARA cars. All the info
about Reading (and the others major users) cars are in there.

Cheers

Barry Bennett


Re: C&O Auto Box car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, January 15, 2006, at 08:21 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Scott, Ed Hawkins thinks the cars were black, not blue. I honestly
don't know, since I've only seen a published color photo taken in
strong light, and it looks bluish but it could have been black. There
was an article in Model Railroading Sept 1987 that says they were
blue also, but again I have no way of knowing it that's correct. I
would like to know the correct answer!

Tim O'Connor
Tim and Scott,
I want to further state that I don't have any official documentation
how the C&O 19000-19499 40' box cars (and 19500-19999 50' cars) were
painted. I made a concerted effort to find this information in the AC&F
specs/drawings, but have never been able to find it. All I'm going on
are two color photos that to my eye look like they're black with yellow
stencils. A 40' car shows up in a photo in the NP Color Pictorial book
and a 50' car is shown in the C&O Color Guide. Both cars have hand
brakes (the housing for the mechanism and the brake wheel) painted
yellow.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


NYC War Emergency Gon - black

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I just uploaded a couple of marginal photos of this Tichy gon to the STMPH page in files. There's
one not in focus of the side where the principal lettering is (but you can get the drift) and one of
the floor, showing the rectangular areas.

Not easy taking photos of a black object!!

Look for "NYC WEG" I'll remove them in a few days.

SGL


Re: War Emergency Gon

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

SGL, I remember looking at some of the NYC gons when they came out, and they
were Mineral Red. Maybe they did another release and didn't update the
reweigh/repack data.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:18 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] War Emergency Gon


Brian, my thanks to you for this painting information. It's >extremely<
annoying that Tichy seems
to have committed a faux paus here. The car's lettered as being built
7/43, so per your excellent
information below, this car certainly SHOULD be freight car brown, not the
black it most definitely
is, not when new, and not when it appears on the club's ca. 1955 layout
either. This was supposed
to be a quick'n'dirty to get us another worthwhile car on the layout, not
a strip and repaint and
decal job. *sigh* More likely to be a white elephant . . .or is that a
black elephant?

And Richard, I appreciate your looking in the '43 cyc. And the note about
the brake gear.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Brian J Carlson
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:21 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] War Emergency Gon

SGL:
My Tichy model, PRR G30, has a solid planked floor from end
to end. Any chance you could post a pic? As far as I know
the floors were all wood.

Paint information from Terry Link's canadasouthern.com website.
NOTES ON FREIGHT CAR PAINTING:

Hoppers, flatcars and gondolas:

An issue that keeps coming up concerns the color used on NYC
freight cars - primarily the open top cars ( hoppers, flat
cars and gondolas ), since during different time periods,
they were painted either freight car brown or Black. So here
is the answer based on Railroad documents, as outlined in
various issues of the NYCSHS Headlight:

* All NYC hoppers, flat cars and gondolas were painted black
prior to February 20, 1941.

* From February 20, 1941 to June 6, 1956 they were painted
freight car brown.

* After June 6, 1956, shops equipped for handling F-1 black
car cement, between April 1 and October 1 were BLACK. Shops
NOT equipped for handling
F-1 cement and ALL shops between October 1 and April 1 were
freight car brown. This information comes from Specification
P-18, Painting Open Top and Flat Cars, first issued December
28, 1921. In practice, it seems that locations with inside
paint facilities used black F-1 cement year round and these
locations accounted for the preponderance of cars painted.

* From about 1960 to 1968 a black paint replaced the F-1
cement and was used year round on hoppers, gondolas and
flatcars. Some special service gondolas received silver
paint. Some Pittsburgh & Lake Erie gondolas and flatcars were
painted Century Green between 1960 and 1968

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY




Yahoo! Groups Links








Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: War Emergency Gon

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Brian, my thanks to you for this painting information. It's >extremely< annoying that Tichy seems
to have committed a faux paus here. The car's lettered as being built 7/43, so per your excellent
information below, this car certainly SHOULD be freight car brown, not the black it most definitely
is, not when new, and not when it appears on the club's ca. 1955 layout either. This was supposed
to be a quick'n'dirty to get us another worthwhile car on the layout, not a strip and repaint and
decal job. *sigh* More likely to be a white elephant . . .or is that a black elephant?

And Richard, I appreciate your looking in the '43 cyc. And the note about the brake gear.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Brian J Carlson
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:21 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] War Emergency Gon

SGL:
My Tichy model, PRR G30, has a solid planked floor from end
to end. Any chance you could post a pic? As far as I know
the floors were all wood.

Paint information from Terry Link's canadasouthern.com website.
NOTES ON FREIGHT CAR PAINTING:

Hoppers, flatcars and gondolas:

An issue that keeps coming up concerns the color used on NYC
freight cars - primarily the open top cars ( hoppers, flat
cars and gondolas ), since during different time periods,
they were painted either freight car brown or Black. So here
is the answer based on Railroad documents, as outlined in
various issues of the NYCSHS Headlight:

* All NYC hoppers, flat cars and gondolas were painted black
prior to February 20, 1941.

* From February 20, 1941 to June 6, 1956 they were painted
freight car brown.

* After June 6, 1956, shops equipped for handling F-1 black
car cement, between April 1 and October 1 were BLACK. Shops
NOT equipped for handling
F-1 cement and ALL shops between October 1 and April 1 were
freight car brown. This information comes from Specification
P-18, Painting Open Top and Flat Cars, first issued December
28, 1921. In practice, it seems that locations with inside
paint facilities used black F-1 cement year round and these
locations accounted for the preponderance of cars painted.

* From about 1960 to 1968 a black paint replaced the F-1
cement and was used year round on hoppers, gondolas and
flatcars. Some special service gondolas received silver
paint. Some Pittsburgh & Lake Erie gondolas and flatcars were
painted Century Green between 1960 and 1968

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY




Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Sergent coupler experiments

Jared Harper <harper-brown@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <dstorzek@e...> wrote:

Does it set the knuckle out far enough from the box?
Yes. It is the same as the Accumate coupler.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Re: ACF type 27 8K Navy, Gas & Supply Co. (CTTX) reweigh questions

al_brown03
 

It's where they paint everything Tucson Red.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@s...>
wrote:

Mike Brock wrote:
Now I'm curious. If a tank car were to be repainted I assume
from this
that
it would retain the "NEW". Does that suggest that any paint shop
would
have
the stencil for "NEW"? And, if not, would such a shop...say
Tuscon...

"Tuscon?" Where in the world is Tuscon?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@s...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: ACF type 27 8K Navy, Gas & Supply Co. (CTTX) reweigh questions

Tony Thompson
 

Mike Brock wrote:
Now I'm curious. If a tank car were to be repainted I assume from this that
it would retain the "NEW". Does that suggest that any paint shop would have
the stencil for "NEW"? And, if not, would such a shop...say Tuscon...
"Tuscon?" Where in the world is Tuscon?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight car flooring

leedennegar
 

If I'm not mistaken, the purpose of creosote and modern pressure
treatments is to protect wood from bacteria, fungi and insects that
live in the soil. This is why it's used for wood that is in contact
with the ground such as ties, fenceposts, etc.

Since car floor are at least a yard off the ground, creosote would be
next to worthless.

BTW, "dry rot" is a misnomer: it only attacks wood that becomes wet
occasionally (from rain, usually). Although freight cars get rained
on, I'm far from sure creosote would add any protection worth the time
and trouble.

Am I wrong, anyone?


Lee Dennegar
Piscataway, NJ.


Bay Area Prototype Modelers Meet - April 30, 2006 in Fremont, CA

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

The 3rd annual Bay Area Prototype Modelers (BAPM) meet is on Sunday, April
30, 2006 from 10 AM - 5 PM in Fremont, California. Bigger and better than
ever, BAPM 2006 takes place at the Fremont Marriott Hotel.

This Railroad Prototype Modelers (RPM) event is open to modelers of all
abilities, roads, scales, and eras. Steam, diesel, electric, Interurban,
freight cars, passenger cars, intermodal, MOW equipment -- you name it,
it'll be on display at BAPM 2006! Models that are finished, along with
those projects still in-progress, are encouraged and welcome for display.
There is no judging or contest. RPM meets are an opportunity to meet with
fellow modelers to discuss tips and techniques, enjoy a great day learning
from one another, and view lots of superb models!

BAPM 2006 will feature:
* More than 3,700 sq. ft. of display space... that's over 3 times last
year!
* Separate clinic room with large screen
* Hundreds of detailed models on display
* Operating Free-mo modular layouts
* Manufacturers on-site with displays and merchandise for sale
* Raffle for great prizes from Major Model Railroad Manufacturers
* Socialize with friends and other local modelers, learn creative new tips
and techniques

When: Sunday, April 30, 2006
10:00 AM - 5:00 PM

Where: Fremont Marriott Hotel
46100 Landing Parkway
Fremont CA 94538
Phone: (510) 413-3700
http://www.fremontmarriott.com
Reservations: 1-800-228-9290

Admission: Only $20, or $18 if you bring at least one model to display.

Out of town Attendees:
For hotel accommodations we have a special weekend rate of $74 per night per
room. Centrally located in the San Francisco Bay Area, the Fremont Marriott
is adjacent to Highway 880 in Fremont. The San Jose and Oakland airports
are less than 30 minutes away; the San Francisco airport is only 45 minutes
away. Amtrak stations are also close by.

Mark your calendars to attend BAPM 2006 on Sunday, April 30th.

We are finalizing the clinic schedule, watch for additional announcements.

Our Webmaster is updating the BAPM Website, please visit this temporary page
http://www.bayareaprototypemodelers.org

To view photos from BAPM 2005, visit these Websites:
http://www.pbase.com/tracktime/bapm2005
http://www.railsaroundthebay.net/modeling/bapm2005/

Additional details coming soon!

Please contact me with questions.

Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@pacbell.net


Re: C&O Auto Box car

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott, Ed Hawkins thinks the cars were black, not blue. I honestly
don't know, since I've only seen a published color photo taken in
strong light, and it looks bluish but it could have been black. There
was an article in Model Railroading Sept 1987 that says they were
blue also, but again I have no way of knowing it that's correct. I
would like to know the correct answer!

Tim O'Connor

Oh, I forgot about those!
Some information (or assumption) about these 1957 cars pointed to black cars with DF loaders, and brown without DF. But Virl Davis had labeled his b/w photo of an as-delivered DF car as "blue" and was confident about it. Seems like after this order, (and 500 similar 50' cars), C&O settled on black for specially equipped or assigned box cars, but only for a little while. And in 1959 came the yellow-sided insulated cars.
Scott Pitzer


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Nope. No later than 1957. 19000-19499 were delivered in blue in 1957
with yellow letters, and yellow brake wheels.


Re: War Emergency Gon

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

SGL:
My Tichy model, PRR G30, has a solid planked floor from end to end. Any
chance you could post a pic? As far as I know the floors were all wood.

Paint information from Terry Link's canadasouthern.com website.
NOTES ON FREIGHT CAR PAINTING:

Hoppers, flatcars and gondolas:

An issue that keeps coming up concerns the color used on NYC freight cars -
primarily the open top cars ( hoppers, flat cars and gondolas ), since
during different time periods, they were painted either freight car brown or
Black. So here is the answer based on Railroad documents, as outlined in
various issues of the NYCSHS Headlight:

* All NYC hoppers, flat cars and gondolas were painted black prior to
February 20, 1941.

* From February 20, 1941 to June 6, 1956 they were painted freight car
brown.

* After June 6, 1956, shops equipped for handling F-1 black car cement,
between April 1 and October 1 were BLACK. Shops NOT equipped for handling
F-1 cement and ALL shops between October 1 and April 1 were freight car
brown. This information comes from Specification P-18, Painting Open Top and
Flat Cars, first issued December 28, 1921. In practice, it seems that
locations with inside paint facilities used black F-1 cement year round and
these locations accounted for the preponderance of cars painted.

* From about 1960 to 1968 a black paint replaced the F-1 cement and was used
year round on hoppers, gondolas and flatcars. Some special service gondolas
received silver paint. Some Pittsburgh & Lake Erie gondolas and flatcars
were painted Century Green between 1960 and 1968

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: War Emergency Gon

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 15, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

I'm assembling a Tichy War Emergency Gon, decorated for NYC 711555. 
This is a layout model for the
model railroad club, so perfection isn't required, but I do weather
things and add a few details
before they go there, and I like to get things at least close.  So,
on the floor (since that's been
a discussion point lately) and the wood for the sides, I'm in
agreement with Tony Thompson that
these parts were seldom creosoted, and therefore not black, or shiny
black at any rate.  But would
they have been painted?  On the inside I mean?  Clearly the outside
surface of the sides were
painted.  The model's painted black.
Schuyler, you don't indicate whether you're modeling the car as-built
or in later years; however, when new they were mineral red, not black.
I have one in-service shot with the end down in which it appears that
the insides of the sides were painted the same as the outsides (i.e.,
mineral red). The floors were probably unpainted, though I have no
direct evidence of this.

Also, the floor pattern has rectangular sections of the floor
planking, at four locations,
symmetrically spaced, laterally centered, about 30" long.  Are these
steel pieces, part of the
underframe, flush with the floor?
Curious. The drawings of these cars in the 1943 Car Builders'
Cyclopedia show a solid planked floor with no metal showing anywhere.

Any other cautions and/or suggestions about this model?
Note that the NYC cars did NOT have side-saddle Ajax hand brakes, as
supplied in the Tichy kit; they had Universal lever style hand brakes.
Also, they were equipped with Barber Stabilized S-2 trucks with spring
planks, for which the closest match are Branchline's trucks, not those
provided by Tichy.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ACF type 27 8K Navy, Gas & Supply Co. (CTTX) reweigh questions

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson writes:

As an extreme example, I
have a 1950 photo of a UTL class V tank car that was still stenciled
"NEW 4 12."

Now I'm curious. If a tank car were to be repainted I assume from this that it would retain the "NEW". Does that suggest that any paint shop would have the stencil for "NEW"? And, if not, would such a shop...say Tuscon...just put TUS [ or whatever the symbol is ] on the car without reweighing?

I know, I know...I worked for NASA too long.<g>.

Mike Brock

138561 - 138580 of 188631