Date   

Re: Super Glue

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Gene,

My favorite ACC is one made by Lok Tite. I get it at Home Depot. I
first heard about it on this list. Its most impressive feature is that
it does not freeze up un the bottle anywhere near as fast as other
brands.

As for instant setting, use an accelerator. I get that at my local
hobby shop. It comes in a pump spray bottle and its most impressive
feature is that it does not appear to have an effect on anything other
than the ACC. I have not seen it disturb paint, or plastic, or
lettering. It evaporates quickly leaving no visible residue.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Gene Green
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:22 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Super Glue

I'm having trouble using cyanoacrylate for kit assembly. The most
recent difficulty is attaching the wire grab irons to a Life-Like war
emergency composite hopper.

I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.

How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Anyone care to recommend any particular brand?
How do you get the "instant" part to work?
Bottom line is I've never gotten "super glue" to work. Has anyone
else? Or is this just an elaborate marketing hoax?

Back to the Life-Like war emergency composite hopper, has anyone just
pressed the grabs into the holes and omitted the use of glue? Have the

grabs fallen out? Used a different type of glue?

I am definately open to suggestions here.

Gene Green








Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Super Glue

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:13 AM, ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
No! Moisture interferes with ACC curing and bonding. All parts
should be dry and no water should be introduced.
Sorry Bruce but the moisture in the air is what sets up the super
glue. The original brand was Eastman. I find it to be the best. There
was a TV show on PBS last night about it. Two guys in Tennessee
discovered it by accident and Eastman put it on the market.
Larry,

Water VAPOR or trace water (ie hydrated hydrophillic molecules) causes it to set up. That's why it goes bad in the tube. BTW, it isn't water specifically, but ANY weak base that counteracts the weak acid in the ACC. Water in the liquid form however interferes with the ability of ACC to make a bond. I know from both modeling and operating room experience. If you try to glue pieces of a body back together with blood on them, it doesn't work. The surfaces must be free of blood to get a good bond. (BTW I won't say if the preceding was the OR or modeling experience <G>)

I did make one error. Acetone is the debonder, not the active ingredient in the accelerator. The active ingredient in the accelerators consists of a weak base in a carrier of isopropyl alcohol or acetone.


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Super Glue

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I haven't seen Bill Darnaby join in this discussion, so I'll mention that
I've been following advice he gave in a talk on building resin kits, to use
whatever super glue was cheapest at the local hardware store. For the Ace
hardware outlet I like, that's usually a Loctite product, but I'm not hung
up on that brand. The point is that since it's cheap, I don't worry about
storing it for a long time or using every last drop in the container. I pick
up a new one every month or so and throw out the old one, so the stuff I
have on hand is usually pretty fresh.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-11142


Re: Super Glue

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Note that this is not a fusion
bond like plastic cement, so enough shear force can usually break it,
and smooth surfaces are weaker bonders as well.
In fact, the super glue joint is remarkably weak in shear, compared to tension. We take advantage of this in mechanical testing by using super glue to attach the holders for clip gauges. After testing, just strike them sharply in shear and they pop off.
I agree with the rest of Bruce's summary. It fits with my experience. I'm guessing that the glue Gene used was too old.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Super Glue

ljack70117@...
 

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:


On Feb 9, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Gene Green wrote:
I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.
Was it jelly-like when you opened it? When you used it last night?

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.
No! Moisture interferes with ACC curing and bonding. All parts
should be dry and no water should be introduced.
Sorry Bruce but the moisture in the air is what sets up the super glue. The original brand was Eastman. I find it to be the best. There was a TV show on PBS last night about it. Two guys in Tennessee discovered it by accident and Eastman put it on the market.
How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Where I live (alabama), about 6 months or less. You can increase
this by keeping it in the fridge. I buy the cheapest stuff I can and
usually throw away half a bottle or so.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net


Re: Super Glue

Jack Burgess
 

I've never had a problem with cyanoacrylate. I have used Zap by Pacer
Industries for years. I buy only the super thin variety and have never used
any of the slower setting varieties (I don't have the patience for
slow-setting versions.<g>) They do have a shelf life although I can't tell
you what it is....I buy only the smallest bottle and then toss it when the
material in the bottle doesn't shake anymore. I don't try to cap the bottle
and instead just leave the "teflon" tube in place in the top of the bottle.

I don't use a needle or other kind of applicator...instead, I add a drop of
cyanoacrylate to the joint using the supplied tube and then quickly wick off
the excess with the corner of a Kleenex tissue. The joint will be dry within
seconds of wicking off the excess. If you are careful, you won't see any
glue on the joint after painting. When I want an extremely tough joint (such
as the inside of a resin box car) where the material won't show, I sometimes
add the Zap to the joint and then quickly spray it with a "kicker"
accelerator.

I can't tell what your problem is....possibly you are adding too much
cyanoacrylate to the joint but that is only a guess. Yes, the glue does need
humidity to dry (that is why it glues your fingers together) but, if you
don't have too much on the joint and blow on it, the humidity in your breath
might be enough. Our humidity runs around 40% year around so I can't tell if
that is the problem. You might give the super thin Zap a try.

Good luck...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Super Glue

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 9, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Gene Green wrote:
I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.
Was it jelly-like when you opened it? When you used it last night?

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.
No! Moisture interferes with ACC curing and bonding. All parts should be dry and no water should be introduced.

How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Where I live (alabama), about 6 months or less. You can increase this by keeping it in the fridge. I buy the cheapest stuff I can and usually throw away half a bottle or so.

Anyone care to recommend any particular brand?
Loctite, Hobbytown, whatever. If you're feeling rich or want to bond to delrin, use Cyanopoxy.

How do you get the "instant" part to work?
Use the accelerator. This is usually acetone. I love it when Mike Rose sells "Cyanopoxy" and claims it isn't ACC. Funny thing is that the EXACT same accelerator works with it, and the Cyanopoxy folks provide it in a nice convenient spray bottle (expensive too). You may be able to salvage your bad stuff with a spritz of accelerator.

Bottom line is I've never gotten "super glue" to work. Has anyone
else? Or is this just an elaborate marketing hoax?
No, it works great. If you use the "thin" or "super thin" stuff, the bond should be nearly instant... The "thick" or "gap filling" kind dries more slowly (30-60 seconds). Note that this is not a fusion bond like plastic cement, so enough shear force can usually break it, and smooth surfaces are weaker bonders as well. When joining large joints, such as resin freight car sides, always make sure that the surface to be glued has a least a little "tooth" to help the bond. Oh yeah, and don't use too much. "Super glue" works best when capillary action is used to wick the glue between the pieces to be bonded.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Super Glue

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

I'm having trouble using cyanoacrylate for kit assembly. The most
recent difficulty is attaching the wire grab irons to a Life-Like war
emergency composite hopper.

I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.

How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Anyone care to recommend any particular brand?
How do you get the "instant" part to work?
Bottom line is I've never gotten "super glue" to work. Has anyone
else? Or is this just an elaborate marketing hoax?

Back to the Life-Like war emergency composite hopper, has anyone just
pressed the grabs into the holes and omitted the use of glue? Have the
grabs fallen out? Used a different type of glue?

I am definately open to suggestions here.

Gene Green


Re: freight car "tidal movements"

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:


I just encountered an old freight car distribution term, when
I was reading the special notes in the 1950 ORER regarding the
AMRX mechanical reefers built in 1946:

"Cars in this series are operating in special service and
should not be handled in the TIDE MOVEMENT* but handled
strictly on record rights and in home routes so they can
be returned to assigned points."

The implication of course is that freight cars often moved with
the "tide of traffic" without regard to car service directives
or return home rules, unless their owners were pretty adamant
about it! Of course in 1950 a 50 foot mechanical was a rare
creature, and relatively hard to lose track of (compared to,
say, a 50 ton twin coal hopper).
Tim,

According to page 86 of the "Proceedings to the June 1948 AAR RR Superintendents Convention," Manager of the AAR's Reefer Section GW Taylor stated that the "Tide Orders" had been canceled, and "at the present time, cars (reefers) are handled on owners' instructions or in service run." Accordingly, perishable loadings in PFE cars in "PFE territory" (SP, UP & WP) increased from about 2/3's in 1947 to over 80% in 1949 according to the table on page 450 pf the Second Edition of Signature Press' "Pacific Fruit Express."

In spite of this cancellation, I am sure that Tony Thompson can relate "horror stories" about what PFE (& perhaps SFRD) considered was the misuse of its reefers on the return run West.

Tim Gilbert


Re: B&O O-63 gondola question

Tim O'Connor
 

James, a question rather than an answer: Do you know the
class of B&O 361111 ? There is a nice photo of this car in
the Rock Island color guide (p.41).

Tim O.

I've been looking at the B&O O-63 gondola. It is a Bethlehem
design, 14 panel, 3'-6" above floor, 52'-6 long over end
sills. Stakes seem to be tapered hats, riveted, and do not
extend to the bottom of the fishbelly. Unlike the earlier B&O
O-59/A (produced recently by Sunshine Models in resin), the O-63
lacks the Duryea underframe and has fixed ends.

It also had some variations:

- O-63 264000-264999, 1000 cars. original series, built 1951

- O-63c 264076-264896 series, only four cars converted, height
extended 1955 to 5'-11" above floor

- O-63d 351000-351223, 225 cars, converted 1956-57 with skids
and Republic coil covers

- O63e 351500-351524, 25 cars, converted to 4'-6" above floor
in 1957, three part roof

Question: Did any other railroads have nearly identical
Bethlehem fixed end gons?


Re: ADMIN: Definitions of the Steam Era is now terminated

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:

Now that we all know thoroughly about why the steam era was decreed
for the STMFC as 1900-1960, we can now return to discussions about
steam era frt cars. This thread...discussing possible time periods
for the steam era...is now terminated...unless the discussion deals
with frt cars. Thanks.
My recollection of the initial discussions about setting this date is vague
but I seem to recall part of the argument in favor of it was because we are
focused on the freight cars of the steam era (not the locomotives) and by
the end date we picked there were many, many freight cars of the steam era
still rolling. Besides, who among us, we friends of the freight car, really
ever noticed what as at the front end anyway? 8-)

Hope that adds some additional clarity to the decision.

Dave Nelson


PFE R40-25 roofs and ends from Amarillo Railroad Museum

asychis@...
 

Just a note, and my final message on this. As of today, half of the roofs
are sold, and about a third of the ends. At this pace, we will be sold out by
next week, so if you want either of these, best order quickly.

Jerry Michels


freight car "tidal movements"

Tim O'Connor
 

I just encountered an old freight car distribution term, when
I was reading the special notes in the 1950 ORER regarding the
AMRX mechanical reefers built in 1946:

"Cars in this series are operating in special service and
should not be handled in the TIDE MOVEMENT* but handled
strictly on record rights and in home routes so they can
be returned to assigned points."

The implication of course is that freight cars often moved with
the "tide of traffic" without regard to car service directives
or return home rules, unless their owners were pretty adamant
about it! Of course in 1950 a 50 foot mechanical was a rare
creature, and relatively hard to lose track of (compared to,
say, a 50 ton twin coal hopper).

Tim O'Connor

* my emphasis

The mechanicals were AMRX 1100-1112.


ACC cement

asychis@...
 

Gene,

It is probably old. I have had excelelnt luck with most ACC cements as long
as they are fresh. Even if you keep them in a refrigerator and well sealed,
they seem toloose their strength in a few months. I ahve no company data, but
I'd say six months it about tops for really quick bonds. When they get
jelly-like, throw them away.

Jerry Michels


Re: Mechanical reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

The mechanicals were AMRX 1100-1112.

Tim, are you sure those were not ice reefers? They built 12
50-ft. overhead-bunker cars in 1946 for meat service, AMRX 1000-1011.
ART was not impressed with them and they were sold to PFE. (see page
187 in The Book). Later PFE converted them to mechanical reefers.
Tony Thompson


Re: Super Glue

SD9E@...
 

I have found that the three little tubes for $1.99 from Harbor Freight work
as well as any super glue. In addition the spout cover seems to seal as well
as any other closure. I keep the ones not in use in the refrigerator. That
said, all my experience is in western Oregon where the indoor humidity in winter
is very low and the summer humidity is desert-like. I like the low price and
the fact that there are small individual tubes to use. Jeff Pape


Re: hoppers in interchange,

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Doug Brown wrote:
"For those interested class GL was built 7-1898 to 1-1904. They were
converted into class GLC with a shallower slope of the cross ridge
between 4-23 and 1935. Starting in 1941 they were converted to class
GLCA with changes including AB brakes and power hand brake mechanisms.
They were gone by 2-57. Some of these 19th century cars outlasted
steam on the Pennsy."

Actually, there were still 730 cars listed in 1957. The last Class
GLCA were off the roster by February 1967. These cars nearly
outlasted the Pennsy!


Ben Hom


B&O O-63 gondola question

James Mischke <jmischke@...>
 

I've been looking at the B&O O-63 gondola. It is a Bethlehem
design, 14 panel, 3'-6" above floor, 52'-6 long over end
sills. Stakes seem to be tapered hats, riveted, and do not
extend to the bottom of the fishbelly. Unlike the earlier B&O
O-59/A (produced recently by Sunshine Models in resin), the O-63
lacks the Duryea underframe and has fixed ends.


It also had some variations:


- O-63 264000-264999, 1000 cars. original series, built 1951


- O-63c 264076-264896 series, only four cars converted, height
extended 1955 to 5'-11" above floor


- O-63d 351000-351223, 225 cars, converted 1956-57 with skids
and Republic coil covers


- O63e 351500-351524, 25 cars, converted to 4'-6" above floor
in 1957, three part roof





Question: Did any other railroads have nearly identical
Bethlehem fixed end gons?


Re: Mechanical reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
ART built some 50 foot mechanical reefers in 1946.
See Model Railroading March & April 1989. Reporting
marks AMRX.
Tim, are you sure those were not ice reefers? They built 12 50-ft. overhead-bunker cars in 1946 for meat service, AMRX 1000-1011. ART was not impressed with them and they were sold to PFE. (see page 187 in The Book). Later PFE converted them to mechanical reefers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Mechanical reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

ART built some 50 foot mechanical reefers in 1946.
See Model Railroading March & April 1989. Reporting
marks AMRX.

Tim O.

134981 - 135000 of 186212