Date   

Re: wood reefers/ box cars

lrkdbn
 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Fred
Mullins
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] wood reefers/ box cars

Folks,
Can anyone tell me how late did wood reefers and box cars run in
interchange service? Would it be safe to say that they made into the
late 50's? What would the % be for wood vs steel cars be in 1955?
I'm in the plannig stages for a layout which will be set either in
1955 or late 50's to early 60's?? Trying to figure out want kind of
rolling stock I will need to get?
Thanks for any help!
Fred Mullins


Around Detroit MI I remember seeing large numbers of FGEX and
Western Fruit Express wood body reefers into about 1973-74. Some were
lettered for Burlington Northern. I also recall those NP war
emergency cars in the same time period, though not in large numbers.
There were also occaisonal Grand Trunk reefers and single sheathed
boxcars, but they might not by then have been in interchange by then,
as I saw them on GTW property.Except for the NP boxcars,most all of
the rest were in rather rough condition.

Larry King













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Re: Super Glue

Bruce Smith
 

On Thu, February 9, 2006 12:17 pm, ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:
Water Vapor, trace water and water in liquid form is to me water. You
are just playing with words.
Larry,

No, I'm not "just playing with words". There are three phases of matter.
Solid, liquid, gas. "Water vapor" is water in the gas phase. The next
time you dive into a swimming pool filled with gaseous water, I think
you'll understand the difference ;^)

As I said, you cannot use ACC to bond wet surfaces.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn Al


Re: Super Glue

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

...I love it when Mike
Rose sells "Cyanopoxy" and claims it isn't ACC. Funny thing is that
the EXACT same accelerator works with it, and the Cyanopoxy folks
provide it in a nice convenient spray bottle (expensive too).
I, donno, if it's ACC, it's ACC on steroids.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

In fact, the super glue joint is remarkably weak in shear,
compared to tension. We take advantage of this in mechanical testing by
using super glue to attach the holders for clip gauges. After testing,
just strike them sharply in shear and they pop off.
My experience comes from gluing blocks of graphite to 20mm diameter steel shanks for use as EDM electrodes. We originally used any old "super glue", they all seemed to work just as well. One problem we used to have, however, was aligning the index pin square to the edges of the block, since the super glue grabbed the instant it touched whether the shank was properly aligned or not. We changed to Cyanopoxy to take advantage of it's longer open time, which ends when the "kicker" is sprayed.

When using super glue, occasionally if a 'trode was bumped, the glue line would shear and the graphite drop off; very disconcerting. This problem ended when we switched to Cyanopoxy. To reclaim the shanks when all the usable graphite was machined away, we used to simply hold the shank and rap the edge of the graphite on the bench, and they'd pop apart. First time I did this with one attached with Cyanopoxy, it bounced. It bounced the second, third, and fourth time, also. We now hit them with a brass hammer, which fractures the graphite, leaving a cone of graphite still attached to the shank, which we grind off on the surface grinder.

The basic chemistry of Ctanopoxy may be the same as cyanoacrylate, but the physical properties are much better.

Dennis Storzek


Eric Lombard

ALLEN STANLEY
 

Is Eric Lombard on this list or can anyone give me his current e-mail
address off list?

Thanks,

Allen Stanley
Railroad Data Exchange
Greer,SC


Calling David Orr re: FGE

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

I am trying to find a David Orr, who is trying to put me in contact
with a former FGE employee named Merl Dunham from the Bristol
Tennessee/Virginia area. I think I encountered David at the Cocoa Beach
gathering in Jan. 2005.

If David is on this list, or if someone knows David, I would like to
reach him as my efforts to contact Mr. Dunham have been fruitless
(pardon the pun).

bwelch@uucf.org
703.242.7973

Bill Welch


FGE Timeline for building Mechancial Reefers

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

I should never trust my memory. Here are some dates from my FGE/WFE/BRE
wood sheathed handout dated Oct. 2002:

Feb. 25, 1949--The first 50 foot Mechanical reefers are placed in
service by the FGE/WFE/BRE consortium

1951--FGE's shops build 141 50 foot Mechanical reefers

1952--Alexandria shops build thier first 40 foot Mechanical reefers

Bill Welch


Re: MKT 76001-77500 boxcar details

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 9, 2006, at 1:35 PM, Mark Heiden wrote:

Hello everyone,

I have a couple of questions regarding some MKT single-sheathed
boxcars, series MKT 76001-77500, as they were circa 1948. There is
a photo of MKT 76666 on page 9 in the February 1988 issue of Model
Railroading, and on the pay side of the NEB&W website:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/40-foot-single-
sheathed/Bettendorf-types/XM-ss-bettendorf-MK&T-ACF.jpg

So, my questions are:

1. The sides and ends of these cars were painted yellow with black
lettering. One source indicates they had boxcar red or brown roofs.
Does anyone know if this is correct?
Either all yellow sides, roof and ends or all box car red roofs, sides and ends.

3. What sort of brakes were more common, KC or AB, by 1948?
I would wager that it was mixed, but Tom Palmer probably knows how aggressive the katy was about adopting AB brakes on these cars. He can chime in.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Super Glue

John Van Buekenhout <jvanbu1347@...>
 

Check the Lee Valley Tools site for Super Glue accelerators.
Jack

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Super Glue


I'm having trouble using cyanoacrylate for kit assembly. The most recent difficulty is attaching the wire grab irons to a Life-Like war emergency composite hopper.
I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro brand.
I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The humidity is 14% this morning.
How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Anyone care to recommend any particular brand?
How do you get the "instant" part to work?
Bottom line is I've never gotten "super glue" to work. Has anyone else? Or is this just an elaborate marketing hoax?
Back to the Life-Like war emergency composite hopper, has anyone just pressed the grabs into the holes and omitted the use of glue? Have the grabs fallen out? Used a different type of glue?
I am definately open to suggestions here.
Gene Green
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: FGE Mechanical reefers

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Yes thank you Tony for the correction. The intial cars would have had
the rolling pin taper style rib stamping

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bill Welch wrote:

. . . it make sense that the earlier cars would have the so-
called "banana taper" end.
I assume this is backwards, Bill? AFAIK the rolling-pin style
was
replaced by banana-taper at least as early as June, 1955.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


MKT 76001-77500 boxcar details

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I have a couple of questions regarding some MKT single-sheathed
boxcars, series MKT 76001-77500, as they were circa 1948. There is
a photo of MKT 76666 on page 9 in the February 1988 issue of Model
Railroading, and on the pay side of the NEB&W website:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/40-foot-single-
sheathed/Bettendorf-types/XM-ss-bettendorf-MK&T-ACF.jpg

So, my questions are:

1. The sides and ends of these cars were painted yellow with black
lettering. One source indicates they had boxcar red or brown roofs.
Does anyone know if this is correct?

2. Are Champ HB-1 decals the best set for these cars? Are there any
other sets available?

3. What sort of brakes were more common, KC or AB, by 1948?

Any information is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Super Glue

ljack70117@...
 

Water Vapor, trace water and water in liquid form is to me water. You are just playing with words.
The same applies for resin. Water vapor, trace water, water in liquid form or moisture will make it foam. You need a dry room and as dry as you can make it or keep the resin stored under a nitrogen envelope to keep it from foaming.
On Feb 9, 2006, at 12:35 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:13 AM, ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
No! Moisture interferes with ACC curing and bonding. All parts
should be dry and no water should be introduced.
Sorry Bruce but the moisture in the air is what sets up the super
glue. The original brand was Eastman. I find it to be the best. There
was a TV show on PBS last night about it. Two guys in Tennessee
discovered it by accident and Eastman put it on the market.
Larry,

Water VAPOR or trace water (ie hydrated hydrophillic molecules)
causes it to set up. That's why it goes bad in the tube. BTW, it
isn't water specifically, but ANY weak base that counteracts the weak
acid in the ACC. Water in the liquid form however interferes with
the ability of ACC to make a bond. I know from both modeling and
operating room experience. If you try to glue pieces of a body back
together with blood on them, it doesn't work. The surfaces must be
free of blood to get a good bond. (BTW I won't say if the preceding
was the OR or modeling experience <G>)

I did make one error. Acetone is the debonder, not the active
ingredient in the accelerator. The active ingredient in the
accelerators consists of a weak base in a carrier of isopropyl
alcohol or acetone.


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
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Yahoo! Groups Links






Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net


Re: Super Glue

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Gene,

My favorite ACC is one made by Lok Tite. I get it at Home Depot. I
first heard about it on this list. Its most impressive feature is that
it does not freeze up un the bottle anywhere near as fast as other
brands.

As for instant setting, use an accelerator. I get that at my local
hobby shop. It comes in a pump spray bottle and its most impressive
feature is that it does not appear to have an effect on anything other
than the ACC. I have not seen it disturb paint, or plastic, or
lettering. It evaporates quickly leaving no visible residue.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Gene Green
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:22 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Super Glue

I'm having trouble using cyanoacrylate for kit assembly. The most
recent difficulty is attaching the wire grab irons to a Life-Like war
emergency composite hopper.

I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.

How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Anyone care to recommend any particular brand?
How do you get the "instant" part to work?
Bottom line is I've never gotten "super glue" to work. Has anyone
else? Or is this just an elaborate marketing hoax?

Back to the Life-Like war emergency composite hopper, has anyone just
pressed the grabs into the holes and omitted the use of glue? Have the

grabs fallen out? Used a different type of glue?

I am definately open to suggestions here.

Gene Green








Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Super Glue

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:13 AM, ljack70117@adelphia.net wrote:

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
No! Moisture interferes with ACC curing and bonding. All parts
should be dry and no water should be introduced.
Sorry Bruce but the moisture in the air is what sets up the super
glue. The original brand was Eastman. I find it to be the best. There
was a TV show on PBS last night about it. Two guys in Tennessee
discovered it by accident and Eastman put it on the market.
Larry,

Water VAPOR or trace water (ie hydrated hydrophillic molecules) causes it to set up. That's why it goes bad in the tube. BTW, it isn't water specifically, but ANY weak base that counteracts the weak acid in the ACC. Water in the liquid form however interferes with the ability of ACC to make a bond. I know from both modeling and operating room experience. If you try to glue pieces of a body back together with blood on them, it doesn't work. The surfaces must be free of blood to get a good bond. (BTW I won't say if the preceding was the OR or modeling experience <G>)

I did make one error. Acetone is the debonder, not the active ingredient in the accelerator. The active ingredient in the accelerators consists of a weak base in a carrier of isopropyl alcohol or acetone.


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
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Re: Super Glue

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I haven't seen Bill Darnaby join in this discussion, so I'll mention that
I've been following advice he gave in a talk on building resin kits, to use
whatever super glue was cheapest at the local hardware store. For the Ace
hardware outlet I like, that's usually a Loctite product, but I'm not hung
up on that brand. The point is that since it's cheap, I don't worry about
storing it for a long time or using every last drop in the container. I pick
up a new one every month or so and throw out the old one, so the stuff I
have on hand is usually pretty fresh.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-11142


Re: Super Glue

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Note that this is not a fusion
bond like plastic cement, so enough shear force can usually break it,
and smooth surfaces are weaker bonders as well.
In fact, the super glue joint is remarkably weak in shear, compared to tension. We take advantage of this in mechanical testing by using super glue to attach the holders for clip gauges. After testing, just strike them sharply in shear and they pop off.
I agree with the rest of Bruce's summary. It fits with my experience. I'm guessing that the glue Gene used was too old.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Super Glue

ljack70117@...
 

On Feb 9, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:


On Feb 9, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Gene Green wrote:
I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.
Was it jelly-like when you opened it? When you used it last night?

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.
No! Moisture interferes with ACC curing and bonding. All parts
should be dry and no water should be introduced.
Sorry Bruce but the moisture in the air is what sets up the super glue. The original brand was Eastman. I find it to be the best. There was a TV show on PBS last night about it. Two guys in Tennessee discovered it by accident and Eastman put it on the market.
How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Where I live (alabama), about 6 months or less. You can increase
this by keeping it in the fridge. I buy the cheapest stuff I can and
usually throw away half a bottle or so.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net


Re: Super Glue

Jack Burgess
 

I've never had a problem with cyanoacrylate. I have used Zap by Pacer
Industries for years. I buy only the super thin variety and have never used
any of the slower setting varieties (I don't have the patience for
slow-setting versions.<g>) They do have a shelf life although I can't tell
you what it is....I buy only the smallest bottle and then toss it when the
material in the bottle doesn't shake anymore. I don't try to cap the bottle
and instead just leave the "teflon" tube in place in the top of the bottle.

I don't use a needle or other kind of applicator...instead, I add a drop of
cyanoacrylate to the joint using the supplied tube and then quickly wick off
the excess with the corner of a Kleenex tissue. The joint will be dry within
seconds of wicking off the excess. If you are careful, you won't see any
glue on the joint after painting. When I want an extremely tough joint (such
as the inside of a resin box car) where the material won't show, I sometimes
add the Zap to the joint and then quickly spray it with a "kicker"
accelerator.

I can't tell what your problem is....possibly you are adding too much
cyanoacrylate to the joint but that is only a guess. Yes, the glue does need
humidity to dry (that is why it glues your fingers together) but, if you
don't have too much on the joint and blow on it, the humidity in your breath
might be enough. Our humidity runs around 40% year around so I can't tell if
that is the problem. You might give the super thin Zap a try.

Good luck...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Super Glue

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 9, 2006, at 10:21 AM, Gene Green wrote:
I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.
Was it jelly-like when you opened it? When you used it last night?

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.
No! Moisture interferes with ACC curing and bonding. All parts should be dry and no water should be introduced.

How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Where I live (alabama), about 6 months or less. You can increase this by keeping it in the fridge. I buy the cheapest stuff I can and usually throw away half a bottle or so.

Anyone care to recommend any particular brand?
Loctite, Hobbytown, whatever. If you're feeling rich or want to bond to delrin, use Cyanopoxy.

How do you get the "instant" part to work?
Use the accelerator. This is usually acetone. I love it when Mike Rose sells "Cyanopoxy" and claims it isn't ACC. Funny thing is that the EXACT same accelerator works with it, and the Cyanopoxy folks provide it in a nice convenient spray bottle (expensive too). You may be able to salvage your bad stuff with a spritz of accelerator.

Bottom line is I've never gotten "super glue" to work. Has anyone
else? Or is this just an elaborate marketing hoax?
No, it works great. If you use the "thin" or "super thin" stuff, the bond should be nearly instant... The "thick" or "gap filling" kind dries more slowly (30-60 seconds). Note that this is not a fusion bond like plastic cement, so enough shear force can usually break it, and smooth surfaces are weaker bonders as well. When joining large joints, such as resin freight car sides, always make sure that the surface to be glued has a least a little "tooth" to help the bond. Oh yeah, and don't use too much. "Super glue" works best when capillary action is used to wick the glue between the pieces to be bonded.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Super Glue

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

I'm having trouble using cyanoacrylate for kit assembly. The most
recent difficulty is attaching the wire grab irons to a Life-Like war
emergency composite hopper.

I've tried a variety of brands over the years although last night's
attempt was with the Super Glue Co brand. This morning it is still
jelly-like and somewhat sticky. The next two tubes on hand are Duro
brand.

I've heard that moisture acts as a catalyst to help cyanoacrylate cure
or harden or whatever it is supposed to do. Is this true? The
humidity is 14% this morning.

How long is the shelf-life of this stuff?
Anyone care to recommend any particular brand?
How do you get the "instant" part to work?
Bottom line is I've never gotten "super glue" to work. Has anyone
else? Or is this just an elaborate marketing hoax?

Back to the Life-Like war emergency composite hopper, has anyone just
pressed the grabs into the holes and omitted the use of glue? Have the
grabs fallen out? Used a different type of glue?

I am definately open to suggestions here.

Gene Green


Re: freight car "tidal movements"

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:


I just encountered an old freight car distribution term, when
I was reading the special notes in the 1950 ORER regarding the
AMRX mechanical reefers built in 1946:

"Cars in this series are operating in special service and
should not be handled in the TIDE MOVEMENT* but handled
strictly on record rights and in home routes so they can
be returned to assigned points."

The implication of course is that freight cars often moved with
the "tide of traffic" without regard to car service directives
or return home rules, unless their owners were pretty adamant
about it! Of course in 1950 a 50 foot mechanical was a rare
creature, and relatively hard to lose track of (compared to,
say, a 50 ton twin coal hopper).
Tim,

According to page 86 of the "Proceedings to the June 1948 AAR RR Superintendents Convention," Manager of the AAR's Reefer Section GW Taylor stated that the "Tide Orders" had been canceled, and "at the present time, cars (reefers) are handled on owners' instructions or in service run." Accordingly, perishable loadings in PFE cars in "PFE territory" (SP, UP & WP) increased from about 2/3's in 1947 to over 80% in 1949 according to the table on page 450 pf the Second Edition of Signature Press' "Pacific Fruit Express."

In spite of this cancellation, I am sure that Tony Thompson can relate "horror stories" about what PFE (& perhaps SFRD) considered was the misuse of its reefers on the return run West.

Tim Gilbert

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