Date   

Re: B&O O-63 gondola question

Tim O'Connor
 

James, a question rather than an answer: Do you know the
class of B&O 361111 ? There is a nice photo of this car in
the Rock Island color guide (p.41).

Tim O.

I've been looking at the B&O O-63 gondola. It is a Bethlehem
design, 14 panel, 3'-6" above floor, 52'-6 long over end
sills. Stakes seem to be tapered hats, riveted, and do not
extend to the bottom of the fishbelly. Unlike the earlier B&O
O-59/A (produced recently by Sunshine Models in resin), the O-63
lacks the Duryea underframe and has fixed ends.

It also had some variations:

- O-63 264000-264999, 1000 cars. original series, built 1951

- O-63c 264076-264896 series, only four cars converted, height
extended 1955 to 5'-11" above floor

- O-63d 351000-351223, 225 cars, converted 1956-57 with skids
and Republic coil covers

- O63e 351500-351524, 25 cars, converted to 4'-6" above floor
in 1957, three part roof

Question: Did any other railroads have nearly identical
Bethlehem fixed end gons?


Re: ADMIN: Definitions of the Steam Era is now terminated

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:

Now that we all know thoroughly about why the steam era was decreed
for the STMFC as 1900-1960, we can now return to discussions about
steam era frt cars. This thread...discussing possible time periods
for the steam era...is now terminated...unless the discussion deals
with frt cars. Thanks.
My recollection of the initial discussions about setting this date is vague
but I seem to recall part of the argument in favor of it was because we are
focused on the freight cars of the steam era (not the locomotives) and by
the end date we picked there were many, many freight cars of the steam era
still rolling. Besides, who among us, we friends of the freight car, really
ever noticed what as at the front end anyway? 8-)

Hope that adds some additional clarity to the decision.

Dave Nelson


PFE R40-25 roofs and ends from Amarillo Railroad Museum

asychis@...
 

Just a note, and my final message on this. As of today, half of the roofs
are sold, and about a third of the ends. At this pace, we will be sold out by
next week, so if you want either of these, best order quickly.

Jerry Michels


freight car "tidal movements"

Tim O'Connor
 

I just encountered an old freight car distribution term, when
I was reading the special notes in the 1950 ORER regarding the
AMRX mechanical reefers built in 1946:

"Cars in this series are operating in special service and
should not be handled in the TIDE MOVEMENT* but handled
strictly on record rights and in home routes so they can
be returned to assigned points."

The implication of course is that freight cars often moved with
the "tide of traffic" without regard to car service directives
or return home rules, unless their owners were pretty adamant
about it! Of course in 1950 a 50 foot mechanical was a rare
creature, and relatively hard to lose track of (compared to,
say, a 50 ton twin coal hopper).

Tim O'Connor

* my emphasis

The mechanicals were AMRX 1100-1112.


ACC cement

asychis@...
 

Gene,

It is probably old. I have had excelelnt luck with most ACC cements as long
as they are fresh. Even if you keep them in a refrigerator and well sealed,
they seem toloose their strength in a few months. I ahve no company data, but
I'd say six months it about tops for really quick bonds. When they get
jelly-like, throw them away.

Jerry Michels


Re: Mechanical reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

The mechanicals were AMRX 1100-1112.

Tim, are you sure those were not ice reefers? They built 12
50-ft. overhead-bunker cars in 1946 for meat service, AMRX 1000-1011.
ART was not impressed with them and they were sold to PFE. (see page
187 in The Book). Later PFE converted them to mechanical reefers.
Tony Thompson


Re: Super Glue

SD9E@...
 

I have found that the three little tubes for $1.99 from Harbor Freight work
as well as any super glue. In addition the spout cover seems to seal as well
as any other closure. I keep the ones not in use in the refrigerator. That
said, all my experience is in western Oregon where the indoor humidity in winter
is very low and the summer humidity is desert-like. I like the low price and
the fact that there are small individual tubes to use. Jeff Pape


Re: hoppers in interchange,

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Doug Brown wrote:
"For those interested class GL was built 7-1898 to 1-1904. They were
converted into class GLC with a shallower slope of the cross ridge
between 4-23 and 1935. Starting in 1941 they were converted to class
GLCA with changes including AB brakes and power hand brake mechanisms.
They were gone by 2-57. Some of these 19th century cars outlasted
steam on the Pennsy."

Actually, there were still 730 cars listed in 1957. The last Class
GLCA were off the roster by February 1967. These cars nearly
outlasted the Pennsy!


Ben Hom


B&O O-63 gondola question

James Mischke <jmischke@...>
 

I've been looking at the B&O O-63 gondola. It is a Bethlehem
design, 14 panel, 3'-6" above floor, 52'-6 long over end
sills. Stakes seem to be tapered hats, riveted, and do not
extend to the bottom of the fishbelly. Unlike the earlier B&O
O-59/A (produced recently by Sunshine Models in resin), the O-63
lacks the Duryea underframe and has fixed ends.


It also had some variations:


- O-63 264000-264999, 1000 cars. original series, built 1951


- O-63c 264076-264896 series, only four cars converted, height
extended 1955 to 5'-11" above floor


- O-63d 351000-351223, 225 cars, converted 1956-57 with skids
and Republic coil covers


- O63e 351500-351524, 25 cars, converted to 4'-6" above floor
in 1957, three part roof





Question: Did any other railroads have nearly identical
Bethlehem fixed end gons?


Re: Mechanical reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
ART built some 50 foot mechanical reefers in 1946.
See Model Railroading March & April 1989. Reporting
marks AMRX.
Tim, are you sure those were not ice reefers? They built 12 50-ft. overhead-bunker cars in 1946 for meat service, AMRX 1000-1011. ART was not impressed with them and they were sold to PFE. (see page 187 in The Book). Later PFE converted them to mechanical reefers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Mechanical reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

ART built some 50 foot mechanical reefers in 1946.
See Model Railroading March & April 1989. Reporting
marks AMRX.

Tim O.


Banana Reefers & Routing

John <john66h@...>
 

In my 1944 "Rules and Regulations Governing the Handling of
Perishable Freight" the following information is given in Section 1,
General Rules and Regulations, Rule 110. Rule 110 is
titled "Transportation for Caretakers of Carload Shipments of Bananas
or in Mixed Carloads with Cocoanuts". There are several exceptions
to a standard rule (in Paragraph D if the rule) for routing a
caretaker's free return trip via the same route as that of the
shipment which the caretaker accompanied. I believe these exceptions
give some additional information as to how the banana reefers
traveled…

Exceptions

(Note that railroad abbreviations are mine for convenience, and I
have (in most cases) left off the second part of an exception, which
merely describes the return routing allowed if it gave no additional
clues as to routing of the cars)

(1) n/a to this post

(2) Return transportation as provided in paragraph D of this rule
will not be given within the Dominion of Canada on shipments destined
to points in Canada…

(3) On shipments handled via Bamberger RR Co., caretakers must ride
in locomotive handling freight trains and/or passenger compartment
when handled by mixed train.

(4) When caretaker has accompanied shipment routed NP RR Co, SP&S Ry
Co via Pasco, Washington…

(5) Caretakers in charge of shipments received by the CB&Q RR Co or
CMStP&P RR Co from IC RR Co at Dubuque Iowa, for points in Minnesota
or beyond…

(6) Caretakers in charge of shipments received by the CRI&P Ry Co
from the IC RR Co at La Salle, Illinois for points in Illinois or
beyond…

(7) When a caretaker has accompanied shipment routed UP RR Co via
Silver Bow, Montana, thence Butte, Anaconda & Pacific Ry Co, destined
Butte, Montana…

(8) When caretaker has accompanied shipments routed Santa Fe System
Lines from El Paso or Galveston, Texas to points in Kansas or to
Pueblo, Colorado Springs or Denver, Colorado, or to points beyond
Pueblo or Denver on connecting lines…

(9) On shipments received by the UP RR from connecting lines at
Kansas City, Mo., or Topeka, Kan., and transported via the UP to
points Valley, Neb., to Omaha, Neb., or points on the connecting
lines east thereof, including Soux City, Iowa, and intermediate
points…

(10) When caretaker has accompanied a shipment originating on:
(a)WP RR Co and moving via WP RR Co, GN Ry Co via Bieber, Cal…
(b)ATSF Ry Co moving via ATSF Ry Co, WP RR Co, GN Ry Co via Bieber,
Cal., free return transportation may be issued via Portland, Ore.,
thence SP Co (Pacific Lines) to Stockton, Cal., thence ATSF Ry Co to
Bakersfield, Cal., thence via SF Transportation Co to Los Angeles.

John Hile


Re: hoppers in interchange,

Jerry Dziedzic
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

Carrying Anthracite, Bituminous, or Both? Also, to the best of my
knowledge, the Port of New York was equipped to load barges with
coal,
but not ships
I dunno 'bout this, Tim. I can think of three regional ship loading
operations to consider.

The Susquehanna operated a dumper at Edgewater (Port of New York)
through the war and on into the Marshall Plan years. I can't recite
when it shut down off the top of my head, but I guesstimate '47
or '48 and can look it up if you'd like. This was the destination
for quite a bit of anthracite loaded on O&W. Erie controlled
Susquehanna 1898-1940; Edgewater continued to dump Erie coal after
Susquehanna won its independence in 1940.

RDG operated a dumper at Port Reading (Port of New York). I'm not
sure of the years of its operation, but am sure that it continued
operation well past the war.

Relevant to anthracite road dumpers, though not to the Port of NY,
RDG also operated a dumper at Port Richmond (Port of Philadelphia).
I saw Port Richmond dumping coal in 1972 or 1973. I don't know if
this was anthracite or bituminous.

I don't mean to say that these dumpers only loaded ships; I'm not
familiar with their barge loading operations.

To Joe's earlier comments about about foreign cars on anthracite
roads, I'm inclined to agree with his conclusions. Tim's follow up
on Suncook Valley coal supports this. I have some data collected
about anthracite movement over Susquehanna which I believe adds more
support. However, I'm only in the preliminary stages of processing
this data.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


ADMIN: Definitions of the Steam Era is now terminated

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Well, as I noted earlier, for some RRs the end of the steam era occurred earlier than others. The last run by a steam locomotive on the Southern Railway occurred on June 17, 1953 so a Southern fan might say the steam era ended then. It is noteworthy that many RRs...like Southern...that dieselized earlier than others did not have state of the art, modern steam locos. Hence, they had few engines that still had yrs of usage left in them. In 1954 service with steam power on the UP counted for 23% of all frt mileage, 25% of passenger mileage and 7.6% of switching. On the Eastern District, steam powered 34% of frt and 37% of passenger mileage. On July 1, 1955 there were 163 active steam locomotives on the UP including all Big Boys, 49 Challengers, 9 4-12-2s and 35 4-8-4s. By Dec 31, 1955 the number of active steam engines on the UP had increased to 422...about 42% of the number of diesels. However, it should be noted that the diesel usage on frt trains normally consisted of three times the number of steam engines so the numbers of trains given diesel power was about the same as steam. As far as steam power usage is concerned, a great deal depended on the location. UP, for example, desielized much sooner in the route Ogden-LA and Ogden-Portland than east of Ogden and, finally, east of Green River. Water was always a problem for steam power in the southwest so RR divisions in that area deseilized sooner than others.

By 1958 and 1959 the greatest use of steam power on the UP was found during the fall "rush"...primarily east of Laramie to Omaha. N&W was still going strong until '59.

It should be noted, BTW, that with UP, not only were diesels replacing steam locos but turbines were a major addition to up motive power planning.

Regardless of all that...including Southern's relatively early dieselization...no one said that the steam era had to be or was defined as that period when steam power was dominant or even equal in numbers of locos or with regard to mileage. The steam era might be defined as beginning when steam locos began to replace horse driven power. It doesn't really matter because, for the STMFC, our period begins on Jan 1, 1900. It ends on Dec 31, 1960 a date chosen arbitrarily but one by which time it was clear that the steam era on US RRs had ended. At no time was there any attempt to determine an accurate time for the era to have ended according to someone's theory. Nor will the period covered by the group be changed.

Now that we all know thoroughly about why the steam era was decreed for the STMFC as 1900-1960, we can now return to discussions about steam era frt cars. This thread...discussing possible time periods for the steam era...is now terminated...unless the discussion deals with frt cars. Thanks.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Later life for Milk Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

The Borden cars went into chemical service. Any idea where they
moved?
Several were active in glue service in California in the early 1960s. There are photos.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Later life for Milk Reefers

earlyrail
 

S

Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:40:41 -0000
From: "Bill McCoy" <wpmccoy@comcast.net>
Subject: Later life for Milk Reefers

I like milk reefers but model Atlanta 1949 -1967 and am struggling to justify some milk cars.


The Borden cars went into chemical service. Any idea where they moved?
In 1988 I found a Borden milk tank car in Dublin, GA. At that time it was abandonded in an old plywood factory. It had been used for glue storage.

Howard R Garner



Re: FGE mechanical reefer

Don Worthy
 

Your correct Brian. I'd said earlier that I'll abid by the group rule. I was just poking at some of these guys.
Don Worthy ( the modern era did start in 1955, although!) When chevy came out with the 265 cid V-8....the modern era was born!!!!!!!!!!

Brian J Carlson <brian@bluemoon.net> wrote:
Can you guys talking about steam locos at least change the subject line. I'm
interested in the reefers but none of the recent messages were on topic.
Since the group charter defines the Steam Era as up to 60, I don't really see
what the issue is about, with respect to this list anyway.

Brian J. Carlson

On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:27:50 -0800 (PST), Don Worthy wrote
I'll bet you did. I'm just a couple of years younger than you it
seems but, from 55' on I only saw diesels...to my regret!!!

Penn, B&O and some others were big coal haulers, also. They
naturally tried to keep coal companies as busy as possible. Don W

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@gtcom.net> wrote:
Mr. Worthy,

I was 16 years old in 1957 and spent several weeks of that year
chasing steam locomotives around the MidWest, and I can personally
assure you that they were in far more than "occasional use" that
Summer and indeed seemed to well outnumber Diseasels not only on the
GTW and N&W, but on the PRR and B&O as well. I still fondly remember
watching a B&O "Big Six" 2-10-2 get 75 reefers under way Eastbound
out of Willard, Ohio, at dawn. My word, but the ground shook!

Oh well, I suppose you don't consider the PRR and B&O to be major
class I's!

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

----------
Don Worthy stated:

yea, yea, yea...those locomotives were not in the majority of those
roads rosters, either. There were many roads that did keep a "FEW"
steam locomotives around as extra power or back up power. That
didn't last long either.

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FW: STMFC interesting photo

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Knowing how some really like to look at photos and identify cars, take a look at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/bldg/erie-bufft-alb.jpg
Even >>I<< can identify the MILW rib-side!

SGL


CSD 411 Re: hoppers in interchange,

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

From: "armand premo" <armprem@surfglobal.net>
Subject:

There is plenty of documentation that indicates this rule was
frequently ignored.Armand Premo
------------------------------------------------------

When I was in car distribution in the early 60's that was one of the rules that was observed quite well. No doubt there were exceptions, but not many.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: hoppers in interchange,

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

Thanks, Ben



I meant to say "Several early classes of PRR hopper cars were class GL...,
including class GLD the USRA twin hopper."



For those interested class GL was built 7-1898 to 1-1904. They were
converted into class GLC with a shallower slope of the cross ridge between
4-23 and 1935. Starting in 1941 they were converted to class GLCA with
changes including AB brakes and power hand brake mechanisms. They were gone
by 2-57. Some of these 19th century cars outlasted steam on the Pennsy. For
more information see John Teichmoeller's book Pennsylvania Railroad Steel
Open Top Hopper Cars from Highlands Station. I wish there were more books
like it!



Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:52 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: hoppers in interchange,



Doug Brown wrote:

"Several early classes of PRR hopper cars were class G..., including

class GD the USRA twin hopper."



Doug meant "Class GLD" for the USRA twins.





Ben Hom















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