Date   

Re: Coke Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

David Smith wrote:
The iron ores in both places were magnetite and so the fine
sizes of unsintered ore would have had this really annoying tendency to
stick to metal objects, such as hopper cars.
I don't think so. Natural magnetite can be magnetized with a strong field, but isn't particularly attracted to iron by itself. Any such effect would be weak, compared to fine-particle effects themselves. We've all seen dust cling to things without any magnetism involved.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: body putty

ljack70117@...
 

On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:43 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

Devcon 5 ton white epoxy, also available under Ace
Hardware House brand. Has a hardness similar to
styrene, which makes sanding a real joy. Down side????
Waiting 4 hours to cure.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Put it in an oven at 100/120 degrees and it will harden faster.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net


Re: Freight Car Trucks >>> Ends & Doors

Tim O'Connor
 

Tim, a good starting point is Ed Hawkins' AAR box car article,
RMJ 10/1999, in which he describes many varieties of doors ends
and roofs applied to box cars of the post war period. John
Nehrich published a number of articles in Mainline Modeler from
1983 to 1986 on box car ends. But I don't know of any single
reference analogous to the RPC freight car trucks article.

Tim O'Connor

At 07:47 PM 2/19/2006, you wrote:
Steamfreightlisters:

With the discussion of freight trucks and mention of RPC #4 as a
comprehensive reference, I'd like to ask if there is a similar
comprehensive review of (boxcar) ends, and boxcar doors.

I'd appreciate any info you guys can share.

Sincerely,
Tim Costello


Re: body putty

Andy Carlson
 

Devcon 5 ton white epoxy, also available under Ace
Hardware House brand. Has a hardness similar to
styrene, which makes sanding a real joy. Down side????
Waiting 4 hours to cure.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- Brian J Carlson <brian@bluemoon.net> wrote:

I need to do some filling along the bottom sill of a
some boxcars. I tried
to use some Testors Body Putty, but found upon
drying, the putty didn't
stand up to filling and handling. It worked fine in
other areas between
seams. I am looking for some advice on what you guys
use on free or exposed
edges.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY




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Re: body putty

Jerry Dziedzic
 

I need to do some filling along the bottom sill of a some boxcars.
Brian, what has been reliable for me is repairing the affected area
with styrene strip. File/notch/carve a rectangular shape that
surrounds the affected area. Fit a suitably-sized length of styrene
strip. Take care that the exposed surface fits flush, in the same
plane, as the undamaged surface. True up the edge of the sill with a
file, and use the body putty to smooth the seams between the styrene
and the undamaged surface.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Re: Coke Cars

David Smith <dsmith@...>
 

Thanks, Justin, I can actually shed some light on the ore issue, at
least at Tahawus and Lyon Mountain. In both places, the ore crushed,
passed through separators, which used magnetic fields, flotation and
screening in various combinations to yield sized ore concentrate and
waste (which, from Lyon Mountain, at least, was used as construction
aggregate and ballast). The concentrated ore was then mixed with coal
and fired to produce coarsely clumped sintered ore, which was easier to
handle. The iron ores in both places were magnetite and so the fine
sizes of unsintered ore would have had this really annoying tendency to
stick to metal objects, such as hopper cars. No actual smelting was
done at either location. Lyon Mountain ores were smelted at the
Standish furnace until the 1930s, after which they went to Port Henry or
farther afield. Since posting my first note, I have read that
Standish/Lyon Mountain iron was renowned for its low phosphorous content
(function of the ore) and low sulfur content ( function of the fuel - at
first charcoal and then coke) so they might indeed have brought in coke
from a distance to keep the sulfur content down. There's a lot of info
on the ore and the ore cars on the RPI site. There were special ore
cars on all the D&H ore lines, but they also used regular hoppers and a
number of pictures exist of hoppers with ore loads that do not even
extend above the internal bracing.

Dave Smith

David L. Smith, Ph.D.
Director of Professional Development
Da Vinci Discovery Center, Allentown, PA

http://www.davinci-center.org <http://www.davinci-center.org/>

"Who will pick up where Leonardo left off?"

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Justin Kahn
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:10 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Coke Cars




I wish I knew more about the Lake Champlain and Moriah from Mineville
into
Port Henry. I visited the abandoned right of way and photographed the
derelict enginehouse and also followed the Chateauguay (and Ausable
Forks)
branch (es) while I was stationed at Plattsburgh AFB in the mid-1980's.

Otherwise, I have bits and pieces of references, including some views of
the
LC&M steam locomotives and one fuzzy snapshot of the EMD switchers
(lettered
Republic Steel) that replaced them. I was not clear that the ore from
Mineville was actually smelted locally, still less that smelting was
done at
Lyon Mountain. I have some vague recollection that there was a coke
plant
in the Albany area, but generally my limited knowledge of coke reduction
is
that it was a fairly specialized operation, so I would not be surprised
if
the PRR hoppers you report actually had come from Pennsylvania (probably
the
Pittsburgh area) where they did so much of that.
Someone more knowledgeable about D&H traffic than I would have to
explain
how much of the car ladings were iron ore and how much ingots from
northern
New York State. I'm pretty sure that the ore traffic from the Tahawus
Branch was shipped out for smelting elsewhere.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 21:35:27 -0500
From: "David Smith" <dsmith@davinci-center.org>
Subject: RE: hoppers in interchange,

In a 1933 photo of a blast furnace on the D&H Chateauguay branch in the
northern Adirondacks, the three identifiable cars of coke(?) in the
foreground are all PRR quad hoppers (not exactly what I expected, but
great news for the H21 project). The closest coke works is on the D&H
at Port Henry. Maybe they were captured or maybe the coke came from
somewhere at least closer to PRR rails, anyone know more?

Dave Smith
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body putty

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I need to do some filling along the bottom sill of a some boxcars. I tried
to use some Testors Body Putty, but found upon drying, the putty didn't
stand up to filling and handling. It worked fine in other areas between
seams. I am looking for some advice on what you guys use on free or exposed
edges.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: B&M XM-1 composite boxcar - F&C kit roof and ends?

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Al Brown asked:
"Some of the similar BAR cars have Hutchins ends; will those fit?"

Unfortunately, no. The Westerfield end is an "outie":
<http://www.westerfield.biz/detail%204113.htm>

The BAR cars had "innie" corrugations (photo from the pay side of the
RPI website):
<http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/40-foot-single-
sheathed/BAR-1927-builder's-photo.jpg>

However, the Funaro B&M XM-1 model can be used as a starting point for
the BAR cars with "X29" ends - the major change is replacing the kit
roof with a Hutchins roof from an Accurail SS boxcar.
<http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/40-foot-single-
sheathed/Bangor-&-Aroostook-Pratt-truss-xm-Ray-Higgins-1954.jpg>


Ben Hom


Re: Freight Car Trucks - when?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Betz wrote:
It certainly would help if those makers
who are attempting to represent a particular car would
include info such as " ... as equipped in 19__ when this
car had been rebuilt and the trucks were replaced and
the paint scheme was changed from ____ to _____ ...". Or
even just a photo of the car or cars from that sequence
and the date that the photo was taken.
Ah, yes, Jim, dream on . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


ADMIN: Discount hobby shops = Offline

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Think I'll repeat this one.

Doug Brown writes:


Subject: RE: [STMFC] Discount hobby shop


Try Karl at:



KDC Model Trains
OK, guys, I'm going to nip this one in the bud. If you want to suggest a shop, DO IT OFFLINE, not on the group.

Hmmm...not many in the moderate jail tonight.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Discount hobby shop

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Doug Brown writes:


Subject: RE: [STMFC] Discount hobby shop


Try Karl at:



KDC Model Trains
OK, guys, I'm going to nip this one in the bud. If you want to suggest a shop, DO IT OFFLINE, not on the group.

Hmmm...not many in the moderate jail tonight.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Discount hobby shop

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

Try Karl at:



KDC Model Trains

915 Hopkins Center

Hopkins, Minnesota 55343

(952)-938-5456

mailto:eagle-eye@usinternet.com

http://www.kdc-trains.com/



He does most of his business on eBay. His web sight is hopelessly out of
date as a result. He is usually in his shop 1 pm to 9 pm, often later. He is
exactly what you are looking for. As long as emails (after the sale)
indicate what you bought and where you want to be sent, his service is
great. He gets emails with no info in them; he is not a mind reader. He
ships Priority mail daily.



Doug Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim
and Lisa Hayes
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 6:59 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Discount hobby shop



My usual on-line mail order discount hobby dealer has stopped taking orders

while he recovers from chemotherapy. I need a replacement.

My current dealer offers usually about a 20% discount, reasonably quick

service, and a modest shipping charge. Most things I want, usually about 75%

detail parts, are available from Walthers.



I know this has been brought up before but I didn't need a dealer so didn't

pay much attention. I've searched back in the messages for almost 2 years.



Recommendations please.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon









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Re: Freight Car Trucks - when?

Jim Betz
 

Richard and Tony,
Thanks for the help. Both for helping me to understand
"fuzziness" correctly on this topic and Richard for your
very helpful summary of the article in RP Cyc #4.
Every bit helps ... sometimes I am too focused on the
details, sometimes not enough. As you may have guessed
the purpose behind my questions is to figure out which
trucks to put on which freight cars ... and also how to
do a better job of selecting cars for a particular era.
The club I'm a member of has a wide variety of op session
themes - so one month we might be running all steam and
the next the 70's and the next the transition. And it is
all too frequent that I make a mistake and get 'busted'
by the prototype cops. I'm trying not to trust the details
that a particular manufacturer selects to include in a kit.
Some are very good (Westerfield and Sunshine for instance)
and others seem to make a lot of "good enough" decisions
(or maybe they don't even know themselves and/or don't
do the research). It certainly would help if those makers
who are attempting to represent a particular car would
include info such as " ... as equipped in 19__ when this
car had been rebuilt and the trucks were replaced and
the paint scheme was changed from ____ to _____ ...". Or
even just a photo of the car or cars from that sequence
and the date that the photo was taken.
But then I'd be doing less research and although my
models would be more accurate - I'd know less ... not
something that is consistent with my personal goals and
sources of satisfaction in this hobby (mania?).

I remain in your debt ... thanks again. Jim in San Jose

P.S. Richard - I was probably writing my "not too hot on
dates" just about the same time as you were doing
your very well written summary. I had not seen your
reply when I wrote that and so please understand
when it was written and what I had seen when I wrote
it. I'm on "daily digest" for STMFC.

IMO you will just have to understand that "fuzziness" is
part of the history.
Exactly. Or, rather, inexactly, which is why, in my fairly lengthy
post on this subject yesterday, as well as in the RPC 4 article, I
did not specify precise dates.
Richard Hendrickson


Re: Freight Car Trucks >>> Ends & Doors

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

TimCostello wrote:
With the discussion of freight trucks and mention of RPC #4 as a
comprehensive reference, I'd like to ask if there is a similar
comprehensive review of (boxcar) ends, and boxcar doors.
The original reference on ends, and still the standard, is by Frank Peacock: The Streamliner (UPHS publication), Vol. 1, No. 2, April, 1985, page 5. There have been a couple of others on doors. There is also a summary in my Volume 3 on SP freight cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Discount hobby shop

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

My usual on-line mail order discount hobby dealer has stopped taking orders
while he recovers from chemotherapy. I need a replacement.
My current dealer offers usually about a 20% discount, reasonably quick
service, and a modest shipping charge. Most things I want, usually about 75%
detail parts, are available from Walthers.

I know this has been brought up before but I didn't need a dealer so didn't
pay much attention. I've searched back in the messages for almost 2 years.

Recommendations please.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Freight Car Trucks >>> Ends & Doors

Timothy Costello
 

Steamfreightlisters:

With the discussion of freight trucks and mention of RPC #4 as a comprehensive reference, I'd like to ask if there is a similar comprehensive review of (boxcar) ends, and boxcar doors.

I'd appreciate any info you guys can share.

Sincerely,
Tim Costello


Re: AC&F SP Type 21 tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gary E. Ray wrote:
I'm looking for information on AC&F tank cars built for SP. According to
Kaminski's book (pg. 61) a lot (Lot #8358) of 400 cars as ordered. Looking
at my 1928 ORER, it shows 92 cars # 48100 to 48,199 that were part of that
lot. Were the other cars #49,100 to 49399 (shows 295 cars in 1928)?
Gary, of that car order of 400 cars, Class O-50-7, 100 were for Pacific Lines (48100-48199) and the balance went to Atlantic Lines, shared among ML&T, LW, and GH&SA. If you want car numbers for those, please ask.

Were all the cars 12,611 gallons? What was the diameter and length of the
tank?
Every tank car in those days was slightly different due to the riveting assembly. SP published gallonage tables to give exact values for each car; so did most tank car owners. Nominal capacity was 12,500 gallons.

My Train Shed Cyc. #12 shows only 6000, 7000, 8000, and 10,000 gallons. Did
SP have any 8000 or 10000 gallon cars?
Not Type 21. Much later they did have an 8000-gallon class, but built by General American, not AC&F. And please note, Gary, that Class O-50-7 was built in 1917-1918 and thus cannot have been Type 21.

Does anyone have a lettering diagram for the side and ends during the 20's
(any time before 1927)? Various diagrams would be welcomed.
Yes. They will be in my Volume 5. If you have special needs, contact me off-list.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 65' AAR mill gon questions

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, February 19, 2006, at 10:27 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:

L&N - 25100-25299 - built Pressed Steel Car Co., 1948 - what month(s)
were they constructed?
Ted,
The 1948 Railway Age order list shows the cars as being ordered in
April 1948 and delivery beginning in December 1948. There's a pretty
good photo of 25145 in the L&N Color Guide Volume 1 by Steve Johnson.
The photo caption states 12-48 as the build date for this car,
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: hoppers in interchange,

armprem
 

Agreed Ben,but we can never say never .<g> Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@worldnet.att.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: hoppers in interchange,


Jim Mischke wrote:
"The main restrictions in the early fifties were on N&W, VGN, L&N,
and C&O hoppers. These hoppers were mandated to go home directly
empty. Also WM."

Armand Premo responded:
"There is plenty of documentation that indicates this rule was
frequently ignored."

Maybe so, but your own Rutland data shows that cars from these roads
were very uncommon among cars providing company coal:

1106 total foreign road hoppers
N&W: 5
VGN: 0
L&N: 1
C&O: 3
WM: 13


Ben Hom








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Draft gear design (prototype)

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

Though the information isn't of much use to modelers, draft gear design
is extensively described and illustrated in the various editions of the
Car Builders' Cyclopedias, if you can find a library that has a full
set of them from the steam/transition era.

Richard Hendrickson
About the only one that is really noteworthy is the Cardwell design from the twenties and thirties that used the prominent transverse coil springs; modelers who use scale width draft gear can easily model the springs with Kadee coupler springs and NBW castings. These were common enough at one time that many drawings show the slots in the draft sills for the Cardwell springs. Especially noticeable on tank cars, and I believe UTLX was a big user.

As for the other designs all one really needs to model is the Draft Gear Yoke, which is molded in relief on the Accumate PROTO:HO box. The draft gear itself is completely hidden inside the yoke from any angle unless the coupler and yoke are dropped out of the car.

One thing that surprised me recently when measuring a prototype car was that keyless coupler attachments, as were common before WWI, lasted quite late on some freight cars; several of the Soo Line boxcars out at the Illinois Railway Museum still have the original design draft stops that lack a provision for one or more draft keys, and these cars, with their AAR Type D couplers, were in revenue service into the sixties before being relegated to work service.

Modeling prototype couplers and draft gear is truly the final frontier of freight car modeling :-)


Dennis Storzek
Big Rock, IL

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