Date   

Re: Ratios of Home Road vs. Foreign Roads

thompson@...
 

Warren Dickinson asks:
I am curious as to the list's opinions about what ratios y'all
consider proper. In my mind the home road would be represented in the
greatest numbers, followed by connecting/interchanged roads, then roads in
the geographic area, followed by everything else. Am I off-base with
this?
Depends on the railroad, the era, and the particular part of the
railroad, Warren.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: WM hopper trucks

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

One of our members is assembling a bunch of the Stewart channel side
hoppers, and wanted to know what trucks to use. I found one picture where I
think the car had Andrews, but it isn't clear, and one photo does not a
roster make. Any information? - John


Re: Private owner tank cars

Jack Priller <Gndlfstram@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...> wrote:

Yes, but just remember, the prototype police are out their with
their
badges and ticket books, and they know where you live.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Ah, did I happen to mention that I am also a member of the
midearthrails group? I keep our mascot, Smaug II, in my back yard.

Jack Priller
Honorable Association of Good Guys and Irreverent Souls
"To comfort the afflicted, and to afflict the comfortable."


Re: Ratios of Home Vs Foreign

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 12:10 AM 1/31/01 -0500, you wrote:
Regarding per centages of home cars on home rails, I believe that Dave
Nelson provided us with some '44 [?] data about this some time ago. I know I
have it somewhere. Anyhow, I believe that for UP, for example, only about
30% of the frt cars on UP property at one time were UP cars...about like
Richard reports for ATSF. I believe that the major coal roads like N&W and
C&O were in the 60% range.

Mike Brock
I have read that AT&SF was closer to 60%, while the UP and SP reported
30% but that this ignored PFE cars!* I think 30% is a minimum for a model
of most any railroad, just to plant the idea in the viewer's mind that
they are definitely looking at the Santa Fe (or UP, or SP) and not some
fictitious line...

( * while the AT&SF total included SFRD cars )


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Ratios of Home Vs Foreign

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Regarding per centages of home cars on home rails, I believe that Dave
Nelson provided us with some '44 [?] data about this some time ago. I know I
have it somewhere. Anyhow, I believe that for UP, for example, only about
30% of the frt cars on UP property at one time were UP cars...about like
Richard reports for ATSF. I believe that the major coal roads like N&W and
C&O were in the 60% range.

Mike Brock


Test

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

This is a test only.


Re: Ratios of Home Road vs. Foreign Roads

Richard Hendrickson
 

Warren Dickinson wrote:

Our prior discussion about foreign road hoppers got me to thinking again
about the subject of proper ratios of home vs. foreign road cars in
recreating history via a model railroad....I am curious as to the list's
opinions about what ratios y'all consider proper. In my mind the home
road would be represented in the greatest numbers, followed by
connecting/interchanged roads, then roads in the geographic area, followed
by everything else.
Certainly a valid generalization, Warren, but there are so many exceptions
that you can't count on it applying in specific cases unless you have
photographic or other documentation. I'll cite again my favorite example
of the kind of influence on traffic that requires specific knowledge of the
situation. Considerable freight traffic came down from the Pacific
Northwest on the Great Northern line through Oregon to Bieber, CA, where it
was handed off to the Western Pacific "high line" from Bieber to Keddie.
The WP then routed cars that were bound for Southern Calif. and the
southwest to Stockton, where they were handed off to the Santa Fe, since
the unpalatable alternative was to route them via the Southern Pacific,
WP's direct competitor. As a result, photographic evidence reveals a much
larger number of Great Northern (and, to a lesser extent, Northern Pacific
and Milwaukee Road) cars in Santa Fe trains between Stockton and Barstow
(and between Barstow and the Los Angeles and San Diego areas) than one
would normally expect.

Proportions of home road to foreign cars also depend to a large extent on
the nature of the traffic and whether it originated on-line or off-line.
SP and UP reefer blocks consisted almost entirely of PFE cars; N&W coal
drags were composed almost entirely of N&W hoppers. By contrast, in the
typical Santa Fe manifest freight inbound to Southern California only 1 in
3 or 1 in 4 cars were Santa Fe cars, with the rest of the train made up of
cars from many different (mostly midwestern and eastern) railroads that
funneled onto the Santa Fe via Chicago, Kansas City, and other interchange
points. It's worth noting also that some types of cars (e.g. coal hoppers)
tended to be in more or less dedicated service while others (e.g. general
service box and flat cars) wandered far and wide and might be off home
rails for extended periods.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


UP H-70-1

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:


Yikes! If you read the small lettering, the hoppers are H-70-1's and the
caboose is a CA-3/CA-4. Holy Cow!! I've wanted these hoppers for years
and now they're coming from Europe, of all places!
Well, let's wait until we see them before we get overly excited. Yes, the
likelihood of seeing a model of an H-70-1 is about the same as seeing a
plastic scale model of UP Big Boy 4019 in elephant ears [ UP tried elephant
ears on 4019 for two weeks before succumbing to outraged citizens driving
along UP tracks in the Wasatch who complained bitterly about 4019's ugliness
with the "ears" ]. BTW, why would an SP fan want a UP H-70-1? Is someone
going to claim that they went into California and perhaps on SP or ATSF
tracks? That idea needs to be squashed immediately. Everyone knows that
hopper cars never went off home rails.

Mike Hopper Brock.....now tell us...why do you really want an H-70-1? Are
you perhaps a closet UP modeler?


Ratios of Home Road vs. Foreign Roads

ibs4421@...
 

Steam Listers,
Our prior discussion about foreign road hoppers got me to thinking again about the subject of proper ratios of home vs. foreign road cars in recreating history via a model railroad. I to am always pleased whenever I can get hold of a yard shot, etc. All those railfan photos showing quartering shots of the head ends get me too. I keep turning the book/photo sideways,but I never get a better angle on the train to get a good look at some reporting marks.
I am curious as to the list's opinions about what ratios y'all consider proper. In my mind the home road would be represented in the greatest numbers, followed by connecting/interchanged roads, then roads in the geographic area, followed by everything else. Am I off-base with this?

Warren Dickinson


Re: Marklin UP Freight Car update

ibs4421@...
 

I thought of sitting down and translating the small print, but figured it
wasn't worth the effort and no one would care.

Warren

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Marklin UP Freight Car update


Yikes! If you read the small lettering, the hoppers are H-70-1's and the
caboose is a CA-3/CA-4. Holy Cow!! I've wanted these hoppers for years
and now they're coming from Europe, of all places!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@pcocd2.intel.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Marklin UP Freight Car update


Photos available. Well, actually, they're prototype photos...

http://www.rocousa.com/marklin/new2001/044.jpg
http://www.rocousa.com/marklin/new2001/045.jpg

It looks l+ike the hoppers are H-70-1's; I can only hope that the models
are, too!


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Re: Coal Dispersal

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dana and Larry Kline [mailto:klinelarrydanajon@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 1:46 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal Dispersal


The following data is based on an article in
the May 1952 issue of Modern Railroads and the H.H. Copeland Reports. The
numbers in the tables are cars/day.
snip.

Larry, where did you find the H.H. Copeland reports? What year do the
cover?

Dave Nelson


Re: Marklin UP Freight Car update

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Yikes! If you read the small lettering, the hoppers are H-70-1's and the
caboose is a CA-3/CA-4. Holy Cow!! I've wanted these hoppers for years
and now they're coming from Europe, of all places!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@pcocd2.intel.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Marklin UP Freight Car update


Photos available. Well, actually, they're prototype photos...

http://www.rocousa.com/marklin/new2001/044.jpg
http://www.rocousa.com/marklin/new2001/045.jpg

It looks l+ike the hoppers are H-70-1's; I can only hope that the models
are, too!


Marklin UP Freight Car update

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

Photos available. Well, actually, they're prototype photos...

http://www.rocousa.com/marklin/new2001/044.jpg
http://www.rocousa.com/marklin/new2001/045.jpg

It looks like the hoppers are H-70-1's; I can only hope that the models
are, too!

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Coal Dispersal

Dana and Larry Kline <klinelarrydanajon@...>
 

Both home road and foreign road hoppers were in use for the coal traffic on
the Western Maryland in 1952. The following data is based on an article in
the May 1952 issue of Modern Railroads and the H.H. Copeland Reports. The
numbers in the tables are cars/day.

The photos I have suggest that most or all of the coal originated on the WM
moved in company hoppers. However, the Coal Origins table below shows that
about 2/3 of that coal came from 2 isolated WM coal branches south of
Fairmont, WV and traveled over 70 miles of B&O trackage rights before it
reached WM rails at Bowest Junction near Connellsville, PA. The table also
shows that 70% of the coal moving on the WM was received from other roads,
primarily the B&O at Cherry Run WV. The B&O coal shippers used the
WM-RDG-CNJ-L&NE routing to New York and New England in preference to its own
longer route via Baltimore and Philadelphia.

The Coal Destinations table shows that the destinations for the coal
traveling over the WM were mostly off-line. With typical routings, loaded
WM and B&O hoppers would have been seen on the Reading (Reading,
Philadelphia and New York City), the CNJ (New York City) and the L&NE and
connections (New England & Canada).

Origins for coal shipped on the WM
Fairmont, WV area coal branches 160 19%
Via Elkins, WV line 93 11%
Off-Line 593 70%

Destinations for coal shipped on the WM
Misc, Including westbound 113 13%
Reading PA area 133 16%
Baltimore 91 11%
Philadelphia 193 23%
New York City area 233 28%
New England & Canada 67 8%
Other 16 2%

If you have off-line photos of WM hoppers, please let me and the list know.

Larry Kline


Re: Private owner tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard - Can I quote this on our Tichy section...?
Sure, John. In fact, to save us both a bit of time, you have blanket
permission to quote anything I post to the freight car or STMFC lists
(unless I'm flaming someone or vice-versa!).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Sorry! was Private owner tank cars

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Don't I know it! BTW, I find MacinTax to be very helpful this time of year
(as I'm sure is TurboTax, the PC version)...it interfaces directly with
Quicken, and even though my taxes are not seriously complicated, it turns a
10 hour task into around a 2 to 3 hour task...and I can use the rest of my
time working on that kitbash!
Though it's off-topic, I feel that accuracy requires observing that
MacInTax is no more. Intuit now calls both its PC and Mac products
TurboTax.
Tony, list

OOOPS! My apologies to you and the list - meant to send that to Richard
ONLY...but thanks for the update <G> and now back to our regularly
scheduled programming.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
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Re: Private owner tank cars

thompson@...
 

Don't I know it! BTW, I find MacinTax to be very helpful this time of year
(as I'm sure is TurboTax, the PC version)...it interfaces directly with
Quicken, and even though my taxes are not seriously complicated, it turns a
10 hour task into around a 2 to 3 hour task...and I can use the rest of my
time working on that kitbash!
Though it's off-topic, I feel that accuracy requires observing that
MacInTax is no more. Intuit now calls both its PC and Mac products
TurboTax.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Private owner tank cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Richard - Can I quote this on our Tichy section
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Tichy-kits.html
) ? - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Private owner tank cars


Jack Priller wrote:

I just bought a pair of Tichy 10,000 gallon tank car kits [USRA-ARA
class III] Mentioned of the instruction sheet is fact that while the
earlier cars were built with Andrews trucks, later ones had
Bettendorfs, which are supplied with the kit. As I have a few pairs
on the Andrews trucks in supply box, I would like to know which ones
would most likely be on a privately owned tank car around 1930. Or
were there some of each in that time frame? TIA
To which Dave Nelson responded:

Old news: The instruction sheet is wrong. The tooling for the model was
made from a USRA proposal. No such cars were actually built. Perhaps
Richard will share some suggestions on how to best make use of the
collection of parts in this kit (I have some too).
Unfortunately, Dave is right. The Tichy (ex-Gould) kit is one of the
finest examples of injection-molded styrene tooling ever produced, but the
prototype for it never existed. Gould was a superb toolmaker but a lousy
historian (and was egged on in this project by Bob Hundman, who also
didn't
realize that the cars had never been built - and to this day has never
admitted he was wrong).

With regard to trucks, many of the tank cars built from ca. 1915 to the
late 1920s were equipped with arch bar trucks when new, and (with few
exceptions) kept them until the late 1930s-early 1940s, the AAR's ruling
against them in interchange service finally taking effect in 7/41. Cars
built with Andrews trucks (as some were) would still have had them in
1930,
and some cars built in the 1920s got one version or another of the ARA
cast
steel trucks with integral journal boxes (incorrectly called by Tichy and
others "Bettendorf" trucks). But to know which trucks were on which cars,
you really have to work from photos. Tichy's "Bettendorf" trucks actually
represent AAR self-aligning spring plankless trucks, which weren't
developed until the mid-1930s and are therefore anachronisms if you're
modeling 1930. The 1920s ARA truck with spring plank is well modeled in
HO
by Accurail and an odd late 1920s Gould version is less well modeled by
Model Die Casting.

The USRA 10,000 gal. tank design, which the Tichy kit well models, was
finally put into production (with some minor modifications) in 1942-'44
when several hundred cars were built by AC&F to the "war emergency" USG-A
specification, with more-restrictive-than-normal weight and pressure
limits. These cars were operated by the U. S. Army and Shippers Car Line.
But the underframes were of Type 27 design and thus different from the
underframe modeled by the Tichy kit. These cars can be kitbashed, but
that's not much help if you're modeling 1930.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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Re: Private owner tank cars

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Hi Richard,

I've agreed to work up
the data for a Microscale set covering the most common late steam era tank
car lessors - GATX, UTLX, SHPX, and NATX - but haven't found the time to do
it as yet. I'll probably get to this pretty soon, though, as I have some
tank car projects of my own which I hope to get time for later this year.
Too many projects, too little time.
Don't I know it! BTW, I find MacinTax to be very helpful this time of year
(as I'm sure is TurboTax, the PC version)...it interfaces directly with
Quicken, and even though my taxes are not seriously complicated, it turns a
10 hour task into around a 2 to 3 hour task...and I can use the rest of my
time working on that kitbash!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Yahoo

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Mike:

I suspect that having a Yahoo ID is the reason why I keep getting SPAM
messages of questionable honesty offering all sorts of "deals" on
non-railroad merchandise and services. This didn't happen much before
Yahoo took over Onelist. It looks to me like Yahoo provides their
vendors with direct access to our e-mail accounts, which allows them to
get around having cookies turned off on our machines. I am not happy
about this, but don't see any way around it at the present time unless I
just crawl into a cave and become a hermit. [Filters don't work, as the
most annoying vendors change their address and subject slightly with
each post to keep us off balance. Very sneaky.]

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Mike Brock wrote:


Regarding the change to Yahoo, you don't need to do anything to continue to
receive messages....

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