Date   

Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

bobbypitts44 <bobbypitts44@...>
 

Understood Patrick, but are any of their cars correct? Bobby Pitts

AFAIK the only 10,000 gallon insulated single-compartment tank car in
HO that OMI
imported was OMI-3229 - a model with a General American underframe,
not an AC&F type
-27.

Pat Wider


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypitts44" <bobbypitts44@> wrote:

I'm in HO. Even the OMI tankers are incorrect? I have the PSC cars,
and all of the OMI cars except the last two. Thanks, Bobby Pitts


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

AFAIK the only 10,000 gallon insulated single-compartment tank car in HO that OMI
imported was OMI-3229 - a model with a General American underframe, not an AC&F type
-27.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypitts44" <bobbypitts44@...> wrote:

I'm in HO. Even the OMI tankers are incorrect? I have the PSC cars,
and all of the OMI cars except the last two. Thanks, Bobby Pitts


Re: (Was Perishable traffic) - PRR

Brian Termunde
 

You fine gentlemen both have it wrong, there is the right way, the wrong way
and the NAVY way...so be reasonable and do it the NAVY way! (aka Haze Gray
and underWAY!)

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
West Jordan, Utah

"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"
Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District

In a message dated 3/5/2006 11:29:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
rhwhite@botsnet.bw writes:

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 at 20:37:07 -0800 (PST), Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
"To paraphrase an old army expression, in railroading there is a right way,
a wrong way and the Pennsylvania [or STANDARD] way."


No Malcolm, it is:
"There is the army way [which is the right way] and all the others."

Enjoy

Richard White


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Bob Lucas
 

Ed and Pat,
Thanks for the ACF Builders information and uploaded photo! Another
curiousity, though. The Mathieson Chemical lettering for SHPX 13013
(the 1938 builders photo) differs from SHPX 13019 even though both
cars are from the same class and otherwise appear identical. The
Niagara Falls, N.Y. reference is gone and the Mathieson logo has
changed (look closely at "Chemical"). The photo of SHPX 13019 with
the N&W cars I now believe is dated 1950, which perhaps explains
why? Bob Lucas


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Wider" <pwider@...> wrote:

Ed - you have a typo that may confuse some people - AC&F Lot 1838
was a group of cars
built for the U.S. Quarter Master Corps - USQX. The correct lot
number is as stated later in
your message: 1823-A and 1823-B.

I've just loaded an AC&F builder's photo of one of the cars to the
files section.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@> wrote:


On Sunday, March 5, 2006, at 09:10 AM, Bob Lucas wrote:

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see
photo
link).  The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI
(experimental
welded seams?).  Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to
Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the
reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934.  There is a brass
import in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this
car?
Any particulars appreciated.         
Bob,
The car was from AC&F lot number 1838, series 13000-13079, 80
cars
built 9-38. They were 10,000 gallon insulated ICC-103 Type 27
cars with
underframe length and width dimensions of 36'-8" x 9'-5" and 22'
truck
centers. The tank was 87-1/4" diameter, making the jacket 95-
1/4"
diameter allowing for 4" insulation blanket. Dome size was 60" x
21-3/4". Running boards and dome platforms were wood. The jacket
had
six equally-sized sections welded together in overlapping
fashion.

The cars were actually split into two groups. Lot 1823A was
series
13026-13079 (54 cars) and originally painted black with white
stencils.
Lot 1823B was series 13000-13025 (26 cars) and had the top of
the
jacket and ends painted Benjamin Moore Green. The bottom portion
of the
jacket, underframe, and trucks were black. All stencils were
white.

There is an AC&F general arrangement drawing available at the
Museum of
Transportation collection (drawing 4152235). This drawing also
applied
to identical SHPX cars 13080-13107, built 12-38 as lot 1845 and
leased
to Mathieson. The latter cars were painted entirely black with
white
stencils. All of this data was compiled from the bill of
materials for
these lot numbers and available for viewing at the St. Louis
Mercantile
Library.

Regarding the paint schemes, the cars with green were lettered
for The
Mathieson Alkali Works at Niagara Falls, N.Y. while the all-
black cars
were for Saltville, Virginia.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: armed, US based trains/ Armored

routerock
 

Ed,
It's not that rare at all, I'm quite surprised to think so... Knowledge of
the trains was rather common and I freely took photos of the movements both
at Memphis on the Frisco and at Rock Island's Little Rock Biddle Yard.
Specific instructions on train handling and what to do in case of derailment
was issued by the Rock Island. The cars became very obvious...a rather plain
square shaped tanks...I've seen up to 8 in a row with a white passenger car
at each end or sometimes an L&N combine I think numberd 1652 (I'll have to
check...to be sure)... Hanging around Biddle yard someone would gladly let
me know and I'd drive out to the yard, park and watch them... They'd go in
the cleanout track a Biddle because there was a road beside it and the
guards would detrain while the crews changed...then depart for Memphis...
Seemed like at BIddle it was always at night but they came through Memphis
in broad daylight... even saw two (I presume empty) set out by the
roundhouse at Biddle yard at one time..
John Martin


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

bobbypitts44 <bobbypitts44@...>
 

I'm in HO. Even the OMI tankers are incorrect? I have the PSC cars,
and all of the OMI cars except the last two. Thanks, Bobby Pitts

Your question should be: is it possible against all odds that any
brass model is even close
to being correct for this prototype? Brass models are notoriously
poorly researched and
most often incorrect. What scale are you in?

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypitts44" <bobbypitts44@> wrote:

Which brass car is correct? Thanks, Bobby Pitts

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see
photo
link). The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI
(experimental
welded seams?). Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to
Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the
reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934. There is a brass
import
in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this
car?
Any particulars appreciated.

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS4557.JPG


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Bob Lucas
 

Precision Scale once offered a brass Mathieson Chemical rendition in
HO scale, best characterized an "approximation" than a scale model.
I seem to recall InterMountain was going to come out with an
insulated 10K Type 27. Anyone know where that project stands?

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypitts44" <bobbypitts44@...>
wrote:

Which brass car is correct? Thanks, Bobby Pitts

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see
photo
link). The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI
(experimental
welded seams?). Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to
Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the
reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934. There is a brass
import
in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this
car?
Any particulars appreciated.

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS4557.JPG


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

Your question should be: is it possible against all odds that any brass model is even close
to being correct for this prototype? Brass models are notoriously poorly researched and
most often incorrect. What scale are you in?

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bobbypitts44" <bobbypitts44@...> wrote:

Which brass car is correct? Thanks, Bobby Pitts

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see photo
link). The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI (experimental
welded seams?). Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934. There is a brass import
in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this car?
Any particulars appreciated.

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS4557.JPG


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

bobbypitts44 <bobbypitts44@...>
 

Which brass car is correct? Thanks, Bobby Pitts

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see photo
link). The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI (experimental
welded seams?). Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934. There is a brass import
in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this car?
Any particulars appreciated.

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS4557.JPG


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, March 5, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Patrick Wider wrote:

Ed - you have a typo that may confuse some people - AC&F Lot 1838 was
a group of cars
built for the U.S. Quarter Master Corps - USQX. The correct lot number
is as stated later in
your message: 1823-A and 1823-B.
Pat,
I don't know where the lot 1838 came from and it was obviously a miscue
on my part. You are correct and thanks for the correction.
Ed


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sunday, March 5, 2006, at 09:10 AM, Bob Lucas wrote:

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see photo
link).  The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI (experimental
welded seams?).  Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934.  There is a brass import in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this car?
Any particulars appreciated.         
Bob,
The car was from AC&F lot number 1838, series 13000-13079, 80 cars
built 9-38. They were 10,000 gallon insulated ICC-103 Type 27 cars with
underframe length and width dimensions of 36'-8" x 9'-5" and 22' truck
centers. The tank was 87-1/4" diameter, making the jacket 95-1/4"
diameter allowing for 4" insulation blanket. Dome size was 60" x
21-3/4". Running boards and dome platforms were wood. The jacket had
six equally-sized sections welded together in overlapping fashion.

The cars were actually split into two groups. Lot 1823A was series
13026-13079 (54 cars) and originally painted black with white stencils.
Lot 1823B was series 13000-13025 (26 cars) and had the top of the
jacket and ends painted Benjamin Moore Green. The bottom portion of the
jacket, underframe, and trucks were black. All stencils were white.

There is an AC&F general arrangement drawing available at the Museum of
Transportation collection (drawing 4152235). This drawing also applied
to identical SHPX cars 13080-13107, built 12-38 as lot 1845 and leased
to Mathieson. The latter cars were painted entirely black with white
stencils. All of this data was compiled from the bill of materials for
these lot numbers and available for viewing at the St. Louis Mercantile
Library.

Regarding the paint schemes, the cars with green were lettered for The
Mathieson Alkali Works at Niagara Falls, N.Y. while the all-black cars
were for Saltville, Virginia.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

Ed - you have a typo that may confuse some people - AC&F Lot 1838 was a group of cars
built for the U.S. Quarter Master Corps - USQX. The correct lot number is as stated later in
your message: 1823-A and 1823-B.

I've just loaded an AC&F builder's photo of one of the cars to the files section.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Sunday, March 5, 2006, at 09:10 AM, Bob Lucas wrote:

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see photo
link).  The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI (experimental
welded seams?).  Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934.  There is a brass import in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this car?
Any particulars appreciated.         
Bob,
The car was from AC&F lot number 1838, series 13000-13079, 80 cars
built 9-38. They were 10,000 gallon insulated ICC-103 Type 27 cars with
underframe length and width dimensions of 36'-8" x 9'-5" and 22' truck
centers. The tank was 87-1/4" diameter, making the jacket 95-1/4"
diameter allowing for 4" insulation blanket. Dome size was 60" x
21-3/4". Running boards and dome platforms were wood. The jacket had
six equally-sized sections welded together in overlapping fashion.

The cars were actually split into two groups. Lot 1823A was series
13026-13079 (54 cars) and originally painted black with white stencils.
Lot 1823B was series 13000-13025 (26 cars) and had the top of the
jacket and ends painted Benjamin Moore Green. The bottom portion of the
jacket, underframe, and trucks were black. All stencils were white.

There is an AC&F general arrangement drawing available at the Museum of
Transportation collection (drawing 4152235). This drawing also applied
to identical SHPX cars 13080-13107, built 12-38 as lot 1845 and leased
to Mathieson. The latter cars were painted entirely black with white
stencils. All of this data was compiled from the bill of materials for
these lot numbers and available for viewing at the St. Louis Mercantile
Library.

Regarding the paint schemes, the cars with green were lettered for The
Mathieson Alkali Works at Niagara Falls, N.Y. while the all-black cars
were for Saltville, Virginia.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /SHPX13013.jpg
Uploaded by : patrickwider <pwider@sbcglobal.net>
Description : SHPX 13013 Mathieson ICC-103 Tank Car

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/SHPX13013.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

patrickwider <pwider@sbcglobal.net>


Mathieson Chemical Tank Car

Bob Lucas
 

I'm curious about SHPX 13019 leased to Mathieson Chemical (see photo
link). The 1954 ORER shows this to be a 70-ton TMI (experimental
welded seams?). Presumably, SHPX 13019 was assigned to Mathieson's
Saltville, Virginia plant for clor-alkali shipments, thus the reason
it appears with N&W Class FE flat in 1934. There is a brass import in
the Mathieson scheme painted green, but don't know about this car?
Any particulars appreciated.

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS4557.JPG


Re: Armed, US Based Trains/Armored

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

John Riba wrote:
"I have an old book called "The New Wonder Book Of Knowledge". In it
there is a story about an armored railway car. It was built on a car
that looked like a gondola. Sides were built up to form a box. The
center was a little bit higher and housed a rapid fire gun. Troops
had small holes in the sides to fire rifles. It was meant to guard
rail facilities and not for aggressive movements. The Standard Steel
Car Co. built it. It was numbered 1001."

An equipment diagram of this car is on page 969 of the 1919 CBC (TSC
No. 9). The caption reads "Used on the Mexican Border".

FWIW, we've also discussed CN's WWII armored train on this list some
time ago - here's a link on a short history (a longer article with
more photos appeared in the September 1988 issue of Trains):
http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/19/armoredtrain.shtml


Ben Hom


C&O/B&O Hoppers

Russell Hass <rhass@...>
 

From Al's, book the 1500 cars that the B&O recieved were rebuilt and sold to Railease which thenleased them to the B&O.

Russ Hass


Re: armed, US based trains/ Armored

John Riba
 

Hello Ed,

I have an old book called "The New Wonder Book Of Knowledge". In it there is a
story about an armored railway car. It was built on a car that looked like a gondola.
Sides were built up to form a box. The center was a little bit higher and housed a
rapid fire gun. Troops had small holes in the sides to fire rifles. It was meant to
guard rail facilities and not for aggressive movements. The Standard Steel Car Co.
built it. It was numbered 1001.

John F. Riba

chepskate54 <ANTHONYCARRELL@COX.NET> wrote:

While it may not fit in the groups time frame but the subject is
interesting and I was surprised that no one thought of the D.O.E's "
White Train" which was used to transport the countries nuclear
weapons for parts of 3 decades out of the Amarillo TX Pantex
facility.
The train consisted of special built weapons cars sandwiched
between two power/ buffer cars that kept the security detachments
from traveling next to the weapons cars, which rode in special armor
plated & heavily armed "war wagon" cars on each end of the train.
Painted white for many years it was repainted multi colors later due
to publicity.
Despite the fact that the operations, destinations and routes
were classified, while photographs exists they are hard to come by,
it drew the attention of the activist from around the world which
formed what is known here locally as the "Peace Farm" which a place
where they monitored the movement of the train and would have
protests and actually would go and set on the tracks in protest when
they thought the train was scheduled to move. Eventually the DOE
discontinued use of the train.
An ongoing research project of the Amarillo Railroad Museum, it
has taken the better part of 10 yrs to get any one to discuss the
train in any kind of official capacity despite the fact that it
hasn't been used since 1986.
Who knows maybe a 30 year coming out party is in store, parts of
the train still exists.


Did the US have any armed trains, particularly in the '40s?

Ed






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Re: "Standards" and AAR voting procedures

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 4, 2006, at 4:38 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

...I didn't dispute the reality of the power that was
exercised; I only observed that there was plenty of resentment, and
the
lack of adoption of many PRR "innovations" (and proposals to the ARA)
might stem from a certain reluctance to have anything to do with those
boys.
Those who have not read the AAR documents and other industry
publications to which Tony has previously referred can hardly
appreciate either the depth or the extent of the animosity towards the
PRR mechanical department that was conveyed by the mechanical officers
of other RRs and you can be sure that the official transcripts and
news reports were extensively "toned down" before publication. William
F. Kiesel, Jr., who was chief mechanical engineer of the PRR from 1916
to 1936 and served in the 1920s as chair of the ARA Car Construction
Committee, was notoriously arrogant and abrasive and made himself and
his close associates so unpopular with other Pennsy employees, as well
as his counterparts on other RRs, that, after he retired, all
references to him were essentially edited out of the Pennsy's official
historical records. Kiesel's attempts to force Pennsy designs on the
rest of the RR industry through the ARA were rejected as much because
of his personality as because those designs tended to combine excessive
cost and complication with obstinate wrong-headedness. Only the Pennsy
under Kiesel would have persisted in building obsolete X29 box cars,
with their well-known design weaknesses, as late as 1934 or in
continuing to use the 2DF series trucks, whose side frames were prone
to crack at stress points, as late as 1940. Keisel's "leadership" in
steam locomotive design was equally disastrous, but that's another
topic.

Those of us on this list who take a jaundiced view of the PRR are not
merely expressing some irrational prejudice; there's a lot of history
supporting the hoots and jeers that surface whenever the Pennsy's
"standard railroad of the world" slogan is even implied. Early in the
20th century the PRR may have been warranted in claiming some degree of
leadership in railway mechanical engineering, but after World War I
Kiesel & Co.'s arrogant claims to superiority increased in inverse
proportion to their justification and were generally regarded elsewhere
in the industry as falling somewhere between a major source of
irritation and a bad joke. It may be added that some modeler/historian
SPFs (i.e., slobbering Pennsy freaks) are so thin-skinned that it's
hard to resist poking them with a sharp stick from time to time, though
I'll admit that the impulse isn't especially admirable.

There's no question that the PRR was, in many respects, an appealing RR
to model; that's why many have chosen to model it. And some of them
are doing it superbly well, as is abundantly illustrated by the
Keystone Modeler. But Pennsy modelers would be well advised not to
accept too credulously the PRR's own self-congratulatory PR; starting
with electrification, Pennsy management made a series of decisions
which started the railroad on a long downhill slide into pretentious
mediocrity and eventual bankruptcy from which it never recovered, its
forced merger with former arch-rival NYC being only the final
indignity.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: (Was Perishable traffic) - PRR

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

From: "Thomas M. Olsen" <tmolsen@UDel.Edu>
Subject:

Tony, Even you must know the PRR was the "Standard NON-STANDARD Railroad of
The World!"
================

To paraphrase an old army expression, in railroading there is a right way, a wrong way and the Pennsylvania [or STANDARD] way.



Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: M-13A box car

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bob - Will do. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: bmorris8@comcast.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] M-13A box car


Mr. Westerfield, I purchased one of the M-13A kits at Timonium that weekend and would need one re-fit kit plus instructions. I haven't started on it yet as I'm working on my previously purchased Westerfield B&O box car kit, number 3308. My address follows:
Robert Morris 10732 Lakespring Way Cockeysville,MD 21030
Thank you Bob

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Westerfield" <westerfield@charter.net>

> Information provided to me after the launch of the M-13A kits at Timonium
> shows the brake system was not modeled correctly. Anyone who purchased the
> kit at Timonium (received there or shipped later) please contact me for
> revised castings and instructions. Let me know how many re-fits you need.
> Kits purchased after that weekend will have the correct details. - Al
> Westerfield
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>





SPONSORED LINKS Train travel Freight car Canada train travel
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