Date   

Re: Frisco PS2

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Tim, I'll go with cement unless somebody can justify sugar. Were there sugar refineries on
the Frisco (the spelling of which I will correct in the header . . . )?

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tim Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Frico PS2

George A. Walls wrote:

Probably grain, Corn, Wheat or Rice. Might have been Cement or Sand.

George A. Walls



I have a Kadee Frisco PS2 (No. 84084, if that matters).
What would
the Frisco have been shipping in
these cars?

SGL
George,

SLSF #84084's cubic capacity was 2,003' which was suitable
for heavy density commodities such as cement and sugar.
Generally, grain would be loaded into covered hoppers with 70
tons nominal capacities having around 3,000' cubic capacity.

Tim Gilbert



Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Automobiles by rail - a question for Tim Gilbert

Schuyler Larrabee
 

The introduction of auto racks raised that
sharply, and by around 1964 or so, it had risen to almost 50 percent.

Tony Thompson

Wow! Tony can foresee the future!

SGL


Re: General covered hopper questions

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I'm far from a expert on covered hopper loads, but here's my 3 cents worth. In the upper Midwest cement was shipped to plant customers in home road hopper cars. A customer on the RI would get an RI hopper car and so forth. I have documentation of these other commodities hauled in two bay covered hoppers. Meal, malt, feed, lime, grain or grain products, sand, potash, and phosphate. Those of you with the Sidney Wheeler CD can see the distance some hoppers traveled with agricultural based loads. The CGW bought several series of two bay covered hoppers with roller bearing trucks for more reliable on line service.
There are photos of two bay covered hoppers being delivered to the local oil pipeline outlet. I've been told these cars carried additives for the gasoline?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Plano vs. Kadee Running boards

al_brown03
 

The Plano boxcar running boards include the lateral running boards
(see their web site). They come in Morton, Apex, or Gypsum patterns.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

Shawn Beckert wrote:
I think it's a question of how badly Garth wants them <g>. Plano
*does* offer a Morton running board package, part #190, for 40'
boxcars. Failing that, there are sheets of Morton pattern material
available, parts #203 (stainless steel) and #204 (brass). Check
out the web page at:

http://www.planomodelproducts.com/
And a very nice one it is. I've just uploaded six photos comparing
the
Plano and Kadee running boards to the Photos section. (Folder
named "Plano vs. Kadee roof walks.) The car with the Morton is an
old
C&BT 12-panel that I cut down to 10' 0" IH but never finished. The
Kadee part is about 2 1/2 scale inches (0.030") longer than the
Plano,
you can decide for yourself if it's suitable for the Kadee box car.

Tom Madden


Re: General covered hopper questions

Michael Aufderheide
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:
For a covered
hopper in cement service, that range was limited because the cost of
transportation, and thus, total cost of the product to the consumer,
escalated the further away from their point of origin - cement being a
low value commodity with widespread cement plants nation wide.

Tim and all:

The effect this can have on a modeled fleet is important. For example
in the 1948 Monon conductor's logs I was surprised at two predominant
home road car types: covered hoppers and side-dump gons. After
reading this thread, it occurs to me that these cars were likely in
captive service. According to the logs and despite their small
numbers, I should see more of them on my layout than Monon boxcars!
(in 1948 there were only 30 covered hoppers and 20 side dump cars vs.
1500 or so boxcars)

I wonder if this is the case on other roads; the boxcars being
swallowed up in the national pool and more specialized cars staying
close to home in captive service?

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide


Re: Union Pacific B-50-19 boxcar details

Tim O'Connor
 

Another choice is a Tichy truck, which I like for its lighter appearance
(the Accurail looks more like a 70 ton truck to me), and Intermountain's
ASF (not A-3) spring-plankless truck. The P2K has a distinctive journal
box cover (I think it's a Scullin).

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>

3. What sort of trucks are appropriate?
Trucks were AAR self-aligning spring-plankless, so P2K trucks
are OK but the Accurails, which have spring planks, are not.


Re: Union Pacific B-50-19 boxcar details

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 7, 2006, at 6:43 AM, Mark Heiden wrote:

I have some questions concerning Union Pacific B-50-19 class boxcars,
number series 182812-183999 (1937 AAR design).

1. The table of as-built 1937 AAR boxcars on the Steam Era Freight
Cars website lists the brakewheels for these cars as a mix of
Universal, Miner and Ajax.  Does anyone know which series of cars
received Ajax brakewheels?
The UP diagram for this class doesn't show this information. FWIW,
photos show Universal on UP 183285 and Ajax on UP 183518 and UP 183354.

2. These cars were built in 1936-1937. Should the Ajax brakewheel be
the early model, with the four center spokes?
Yes.

3. What sort of trucks are appropriate?  Prototype photos show trucks
that look like a Proto 2000 spring plankless truck, or an
Accurail "Bettendorf" truck.
Trucks were AAR self-aligning spring-plankless, so P2K trucks are OK
but the Accurails, which have spring planks, are not.

Richard Hendrickson


General covered hopper questions (Was: Re: Frisco PS2)

proto48er
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@...>
wrote:

In those
days, did cracking catalyst move in 70-ton hoppers? That would be
one commodity that the refinery would need, for sure....
Shawn - I have a photo somewhere of two B&O wagon-top covered hoppers
of silica-alumina fluid catalytic cracking catalyst being unloaded at
a refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas in 1948 or so. A.T. Kott


Re: General covered hopper questions (Was: Re: Frisco PS2)

Shawn Beckert
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:

Compared to boxcars, covered hoppers were difficult to clean;
hence, railroad-owned covered hoppers were usually returned to
their point of origin empty while most empty boxcars were
reloaded before they returned to home rails. Accordingly, railroad-
owned covered hoppers were more tethered to their home road
than boxcars.
That does not answer the question as to how far from point of
origin they ranged. That depends upon the commodity carried.
For a covered hopper in cement service, that range was limited
because the cost of transportation, and thus, total cost of the
product to the consumer, escalated the further away from their
point of origin - cement being a low value commodity with
widespread cement plants nation wide.
In the early 1960's ( a tad beyond our time frame, but the point is
still relevant) Steve Patterson took a photo of Cotton Belt's "Motor
Special" arriving at the yard in Tyler, Texas - deep in SSW territory.
Right behind the train is an AT&SF 70-ton cement hopper, sitting
on one of the leads into the La Gloria oil refinery. I'd have to look at
a map, but IIRC the Santa Fe didn't get that close to the Cotton Belt
in that area - although they did cross the SSW at grade further down
at MacGregor.

Beyond giving me an excuse to buy one of Kadee's AT&SF PS-2's,
I've often wondered just what was in that hopper. Cement? Maybe,
although the SSW certainly had sources of cement online. In those
days, did cracking catalyst move in 70-ton hoppers? That would be
one commodity that the refinery would need, for sure. Without having
access to the appropriate records, I guess we'll never know...

Shawn Beckert


Plano vs. Kadee Running boards

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Shawn Beckert wrote:
I think it's a question of how badly Garth wants them <g>. Plano
*does* offer a Morton running board package, part #190, for 40'
boxcars. Failing that, there are sheets of Morton pattern material
available, parts #203 (stainless steel) and #204 (brass). Check
out the web page at:

http://www.planomodelproducts.com/
And a very nice one it is. I've just uploaded six photos comparing the
Plano and Kadee running boards to the Photos section. (Folder
named "Plano vs. Kadee roof walks.) The car with the Morton is an old
C&BT 12-panel that I cut down to 10' 0" IH but never finished. The
Kadee part is about 2 1/2 scale inches (0.030") longer than the Plano,
you can decide for yourself if it's suitable for the Kadee box car.

Tom Madden


Re: Morton Running boards

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Shawn,

Yes, Plano running boards can be made to fit. I've used a few of them, and didn't like them because they ended up wavey and were difficult to glue in place without filling in the holes (yes, I know it can be done, but I'm pretty ham fisted).

I like the Kadee running boards much more, and use them in kitbashes and for replacing some cast plastic "wooden" running boards when the prototype calls for metal. This may sound like heresy, but I keep the mounting pins. They allow me to fix the running boards to the underside of the roof with clear silicone sealant.

As Sam said, Kadee might consider tooling Morton running boards if there was a large demand, and told me I could forward our correspondence to the group to spark some interest. If anyone else besides me wants them, now is a good time to let him know through this group.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Garth,

Plano makes Morton running boards, supposedly to fit the
Intermountain PFE reefers. Have you looked to see if they
would work on the Kadee PS-1's?

Shawn Beckert


Re: General covered hopper questions (Was: Re: Frico PS2)

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

David Smith wrote:

Maybe it's just semantics, but it's not the Frisco itself that would be
doing the shipping - it would be some industry to whom the car happened
to get delivered, perhaps not even on the Frisco which begs the broader
question...

Did covered hoppers, like boxcars, travel widely or did they stay closer
to home?
Compared to boxcars, covered hoppers were difficult to clean; hence, railroad-owned covered hoppers were usually returned to their point of origin empty while most empty boxcars were reloaded before they returned to home rails. Accordingly, railroad-owned covered hoppers were more tethered to their home road than boxcars.

That does not answer the question as to how far from point of origin they ranged. That depends upon the commodity carried. For a covered hopper in cement service, that range was limited because the cost of transportation, and thus, total cost of the product to the consumer, escalated the further away from their point of origin - cement being a low value commodity with widespread cement plants nation wide.

Grain hoppers might be a different story, but this would be a question for the Baby Boomers (1960's) Group. I suppose that covered hoppers could be wide ranging although less than boxcars because of the special tariffs & rules that related to grain movement.


Also, were covered hoppers ever used on an LCL basis or were they
restricted to serving large industries?
Not LCL. I remember seeing in the 1970's covered hoppers full of cement being unloaded at the team track in Westport CT. The cement was pumped from the freight car to a dry cement truck of a contractor and immediately hauled away.


The D&H shipped a lot of cement in covered hoppers from online plants,
but it's not clear if any would have ended up on the Chateauguay branch,
which (except for a mine and pig iron furnace) served primarily small
towns.
Any roads built in the area? The cement would be then augmented with a low cost aggregate.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Morton Running boards

Shawn Beckert
 

Tony Thompson wrote:

One complication is that reefers don't have lateral running
boards, though of course they could be cut from an additional
running board.

I think it's a question of how badly Garth wants them <g>. Plano
*does* offer a Morton running board package, part #190, for 40'
boxcars. Failing that, there are sheets of Morton pattern material
available, parts #203 (stainless steel) and #204 (brass). Check
out the web page at:

http://www.planomodelproducts.com/


Shawn Beckert


Re: harriman codes

Tim O'Connor
 

BI -- for insulated box cars as you say
BF -- for "flush" door non-insulated cars
BC -- for "combination" door cars (plug + slider)
CH -- covered hoppers

And I think at least one example where O- was applied
to an "ore" car, rather than to a tank car.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: jaley <jaley@pcocd2.intel.com>
At some point (after 1955, so I really don't care!), the UP added classes
"BI" and "BF"; I believe the first was for Insulated Box cars; I forget
what BF stood for.

Regards,
-Jeff


Re: Morton Running boards

Tim O'Connor
 

Plano makes a 40 ft box car Morton running board w/
laterals and Morton brake step. These fit any 40 ft car
including PS-1's.

Tim O.


Re: Morton Running boards

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Plano makes Morton running boards, supposedly to fit the
Intermountain PFE reefers. Have you looked to see if they
would work on the Kadee PS-1's?
One complication is that reefers don't have lateral running boards, though of course they could be cut from an additional running board.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: ORER

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
I found it interesting that in at least one instance a series of new
cars was delivered to the M&StL not in numerical order. I would have
expected the cars to be numbered at the factory beginning with the
lowest number on the first car completed and so on. The delivery
notes filed in the AFE show the delivery of a few cars per day and
gives the date and time the cars arrived on M&StL property, the
delivering road and the car numbers.
Having looked at decades of SP car production records, I would say this is more common than not. Long runs within an order will be numbered in chronological sequence, but other groups of cars, produced later, may have earlier number series. It is rare in what I've seen for an entire order to be numbered exactly chronologically from start to finish.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Morton Running boards

Shawn Beckert
 

Garth,

Plano makes Morton running boards, supposedly to fit the
Intermountain PFE reefers. Have you looked to see if they
would work on the Kadee PS-1's?

Shawn Beckert


[Fwd: Morton Running boards

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Frico PS2
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:58:13 -0800
From: <mail@kadee.com>
Reply-To: <mail@kadee.com>
Organization: Kadee Quality Products
To: Garth Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
References: <0IVQ002V1Q47QSFH@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> <003d01c64200$e9c9fd80$7f00a8c0@sam01> <440DB6B7.9050808@virginia.edu>



Garth,

A Morton running board would certainly be nice, but at this point we
probably will not do one, although it is one of the few compromises we have
to make on some of our cars. However, we do change our minds quite often so
anything is possible. Perhaps, if we received a few thousand requests for a
Morton running board we'd consider moving it up our priority project list.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: <mail@kadee.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Frico PS2


Sam,

Excuse me if I've asked this before, but do you have any plans to ever
tool up a Morton running board for your PS-1 boxcars? AFAIK, all your
otherwise very accurate Western Pacific boxcars should have this type.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Re: ORER

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bob Lucas wrote:
For new car acquistions,
the entire series was shown even though not all cars were
physically
on hand.
Yes, the entire NUMBER series was shown, but the number of
cars
in the right-hand column would reflect ACTUAL arrivals. There are
plenty of examples where the first appearance of a number series
just
has a row of dots on the right, presumably because no cars had yet
been
delivered. Then succeeding ORER issues, especially in the days when
it
was monthly, would show the group gradually increasing to full size.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
I found it interesting that in at least one instance a series of new
cars was delivered to the M&StL not in numerical order. I would have
expected the cars to be numbered at the factory beginning with the
lowest number on the first car completed and so on. The delivery
notes filed in the AFE show the delivery of a few cars per day and
gives the date and time the cars arrived on M&StL property, the
delivering road and the car numbers. Most new M&StL cars were
delivered at Peoria so there were a variety of roads that could
handle cars into Peoria for delivery to the M&StL.

Gene Green

135381 - 135400 of 187390