Date   

Re: Upcoming Intermountain models [USRA Composite Gon]

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:
"In rebuilding USRA gons, many roads preferred to replace with
original USRA steel ends with more modern steel ends. How the
replacement of the ends can be accomplished on the IM model may prove
much more difficult than substituting steel for wood on the gon's
sides."

How so? The ends are a separate piece as well. For example, Mont
Switzer kibashed a Monon "USRA clone" from this kit as detailed in the
September 2004 Mainline Modeler. The cars had unique elongated spiral
corrugated ends. These are available in resin from Chad Boas for $2 a
pair.
http://www.buzzhos.monon.org/boas.html
(Scroll down 2/3 of the way down the page.)


Ben Hom


Re: PRR, standards, etc

armprem
 

Thanks Gregg.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR, standards, etc


Armand,

You don't mention specifics, but on unit train moves, there are minimal
terminal costs, and coal often moves in shipper supplied cars that the
railroads don't pay mileage or car hire on. The AN definitely made money on
a 96 mile coal haul, although I could rework the figures to show a loss if
the shipper complained the rate was too high! But, that's a whole 'nother
subject...

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast


----------
Armand Premo writes:

Gregg,It is my understanding that it is transfered to as many as five
different RRs before it reaches its final destination.How can each road
make
any profit from such a short haul?





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Re: LS&I 2201-2225 Boxcars

Jeff Skeels <jbjmskeels@...>
 

A belated Thanks to Tim O. and Ed H. for their answers to my
question about these cars.


Jeff Skeels
Jacksonville, Fl.


Re: PRR, standards, etc

ljack70117@...
 

The US of A has more oil
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...

On Mar 9, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote:

Armand,

We have enough coal to last well more than 50 years, more like several
hundred at current consumption rates.

As to South African coal being burned in Florida, it all comes down to the
delivered price per BTU. It costs less to move coal in Russian ships from
South Africa to Florida than it costs to move it from US Mines to Florida by
barge-ship and or unit trains. On PRB coal, the cheapest transportation
might be unit train to the Mississippi, barge to New Orleans thence ship,
but transferring the coal between modes costs a couple of dollars a ton each
time it is done.

There are fewer transfers all the way from South Africa.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-----------------------
Armand Premo asked:

If coal is king, why are we importing it from South Africa and in
Russian ships no less?I thought we had enough coal to last fifty
years.





Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: PRR, standards, etc

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Coal generates far more ton-miles than any other type of
traffic, and always has. That's what I meant.
As I presume you realize, ton-miles ain't dollars. When PFE was providing the largest single revenue stream to SP and UP in the 1950s, far above any other traffic category, it sure wasn't because of larger ton-miles.

It generates
more revenue in the eastern U.S. than intermodal does,
but just barely.
Read the new Trains magazine. Of course, not everyone can read a magazine published decades into the future <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Armand,

You don't mention specifics, but on unit train moves, there are minimal terminal costs, and coal often moves in shipper supplied cars that the railroads don't pay mileage or car hire on. The AN definitely made money on a 96 mile coal haul, although I could rework the figures to show a loss if the shipper complained the rate was too high! But, that's a whole 'nother subject...

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast


----------
Armand Premo writes:

Gregg,It is my understanding that it is transfered to as many as five
different RRs before it reaches its final destination.How can each road make
any profit from such a short haul?


Re: PRR, standards, etc

armprem
 

Gregg,It is my understanding that it is transfered to as many as five different RRs before it reaches its final destination.How can each road make any profit from such a short haul?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR, standards, etc


Armand,

We have enough coal to last well more than 50 years, more like several
hundred at current consumption rates.

As to South African coal being burned in Florida, it all comes down to the
delivered price per BTU. It costs less to move coal in Russian ships from
South Africa to Florida than it costs to move it from US Mines to Florida by
barge-ship and or unit trains. On PRB coal, the cheapest transportation
might be unit train to the Mississippi, barge to New Orleans thence ship,
but transferring the coal between modes costs a couple of dollars a ton each
time it is done.

There are fewer transfers all the way from South Africa.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-----------------------
Armand Premo asked:

If coal is king, why are we importing it from South Africa and in
Russian ships no less?I thought we had enough coal to last fifty
years.





Yahoo! Groups Links









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Re: PRR, standards, etc

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Armand,

We have enough coal to last well more than 50 years, more like several hundred at current consumption rates.

As to South African coal being burned in Florida, it all comes down to the delivered price per BTU. It costs less to move coal in Russian ships from South Africa to Florida than it costs to move it from US Mines to Florida by barge-ship and or unit trains. On PRB coal, the cheapest transportation might be unit train to the Mississippi, barge to New Orleans thence ship, but transferring the coal between modes costs a couple of dollars a ton each time it is done.

There are fewer transfers all the way from South Africa.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-----------------------
Armand Premo asked:

If coal is king, why are we importing it from South Africa and in
Russian ships no less?I thought we had enough coal to last fifty
years.


Re: Upcoming Intermountain models [USRA Composite Gon]

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jerry Glow asked:
"Would steel side rebuilds be done by merely replacing the wood and
leaving the bracing (somewhat like the Detail Assoc kit) or would
they have been all new steel sides along with the ends making them a
fairly major rebuild?"

Richard Hendrickson answered:
"As is often the case, it depends. The NYC, C&O, and W&LE cars got
entirely new steel sides/bodies. The KCS cars, when they finally got
steel sides, kept their original USRA side framing."

Add PRR to the cars that kept their original side framing, though
they added three vertical members on some cars (one in the center
panel, one in each of the end panels).
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G24

See Mont Switzer's article in the February 2001 issue of Mainline
Modeler (still available from the publisher) for how to kitbash the
rebuilt PRR Class G24 cars from the Intermountain kit and Elden
Gatwood's article in the February 2004 issue of The Keystone Modeler
(no longer available online but available from the PRRT&HS on CD-
ROM) for more prototype information plus information on upgrading
the PSC HO scale brass model. Ordering information for the TKM CD
can be found on the last page of the current issue:
http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm


Ben Hom


Re: Tank Car Rebuild Intervals

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
In practice, however, I know of no instance where a tank
car ran for more than a few weeks (or months, at most) before being
entirely repainted, or at least having the original owner's logo and
other stenciling painted out. A better solution might be to repaint the entire
model and re-letter it for another owner who had cars of the same type.
This could actually add interest, if the old emblem is roughly painted out with a patch, likewise the reporting marks area, clearly identifying it as a car transferred from previous ownership. Of course, it you loved the previous paint scheme, this kinda damages it <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tank Car Rebuild Intervals

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 9, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Rod Miller wrote:

So my question is was there a specified rebuilt/inspect/repaint
interval for non-pressure tank cars, or was that activity up to the
owner of the car?
For cars used to carry regulatory commodities (such as ICC-103, -104,
-105 tank cars) tanks and safety valves were required to be pressure
tested at regular intervals. In addition, tank cars acquired by
another owner had to be immediately re-stenciled with the new owner's
reporting marks (and numbers, if changed). Otherwise, there were no
regulations. In practice, however, I know of no instance where a tank
car ran for more than a few weeks (or months, at most) before being
entirely repainted, or at least having the original owner's logo and
other stenciling painted out. So I'm afraid that what you are
proposing to do with your anachronistic Navy Gas tank car model is
highly implausible. A better solution might be to repaint the entire
model and re-letter it for another owner who had cars of the same type.
IIRC, the model in question represents an AC&F Type 27, for which
there are many alternative P/L schemes, some of them involving only
reporting marks, numbers, and data (see, e.g, Railway Prototype
Cyclopedia Vols. 2 & 3 and Kaminski's AC&F Tank Cars)).

Richard Hendrickson


Re: PRR, standards, etc

armprem
 

If coal is king, why are we importing it from South Africa and in Russian ships no less?I thought we had enough coal to last fifty years.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR, standards, etc


Tim O'Connor wrote:
One thing has remained true all these years: Coal is King.

But of course, that's all in future. :-)
Far into the future, Tim, more than 45 years forward, intermodal
would eclipse coal. So if on this list we knew anything about the
future, we would say "coal WAS king."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links








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Re: Upcoming Intermountain models

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Was it KCS or MP that simply removed the wood sides and left the open frame
and decking for carrying logs or pipe? I thought I had a photo somewhere
it would make for an interesting conversation piece on the layout



Aidrian

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson



On Mar 9, 2006, at 6:42 AM, jerryglow2 wrote:

Would steel side rebuilds be done by merely replacing the wood and
leaving the bracing (somewhat like the Detail Assoc kit) or would
they have been all new steel sides along with the ends making them a
fairly major rebuild?
As is often the case, it depends. The NYC, C&O, and W&LE cars got
entirely new steel sides/bodies. The KCS cars, when they finally got
steel sides, kept their original USRA side framing.




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Re: PRR, standards, etc

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 9, 5:57pm, Tim Gilbert wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR, standards, etc
timboconnor@... wrote:

I would LOVE to see the statisticians produce a ton-mile-map of the
United States showing how many ton-miles were produced in say
the western 1/3, middle 1/3 and eastern 1/3 of the country from 1930
to 1970.
Tim,

The Copeland collection in Harvard's Baker library has the
Ton-Mile maps for most Class 1 RR's. (There are far more Ton-Mile maps
than there are Interchange reports, to my dismay!)
Unfortunately, I am not aware of a single map for ALL railroads,
so you'll have to piece things together from the various RR's (easier to
do out west, where there were few lines; much harder back east where there
were many).

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

timboconnor@... wrote:

I would LOVE to see the statisticians produce a ton-mile-map of the
United States showing how many ton-miles were produced in say
the western 1/3, middle 1/3 and eastern 1/3 of the country from 1930
to 1970.
Tim,

The data for the Eastern, Southern & Western Districts of the US is readily available from the ICC's Blue Books albeit not as maps. I have most of them from 1940-1956 (ex. 1941, 1945, 1948, & 1953). It would also be interesting to compare them with Loaded Car Miles which would limit the skewing of the Ton Miles by Coal.

Its just a matter of collecting the data which takes time. When I get the chance, I will forward the raw 1940-1956 data to the Group.

After 1956, some one else will have to get the data. I know the Walker Transportation Collection in, for you, nearby Beverly MA, has copies of the 19656-1966 Blue Books. I believe the major business school libraries have copies as does the National Railroad Historical Society's Library in Philadelphia. The proper title of the Blue Books was the "Annual Report for the Statistics of Railways in the United States" until at least 1956; then it was changed to the Transportation Statistics of the US. The publisher of these Annuals was the ICC's Bureau of Transport Economics and Statistics.

I think many modelers are not aware of the extent of the
decline of ton-miles in the eastern U.S. that took place after WWII
and the corresponding increase in ton-miles in the west.
(snip)

There
are more important things than standards/mechanical departments.
A good book about railroad operations in the US between 1947 and 1972 is Kent Healy's PERFORMANCE OF RAILROADS SINCE WW II (1985). It is available used from Amazon for $45.00. A library loaner might be cheaper. I bought my copy at a Train Show about ten years ago for 10 bucks.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Morton Running boards

mopacfirst
 

Yes, actually I could use a few Morton running boards in OTS (other
than stainless). I love stainless, but its use in freight car
running boards (roof walk, pardon me) caused me no end of dislike
until figured out a really good way to use a better cementing
technique and NOT drill the grabs through the lateral walks into the
car roof. Now, since I hate working with stainless roofwalks so
much, the few that I have done since this time are fine, but all the
others will, I'm convinced, develop that nasty bow in the middle.

Ron Merrick


--- In STMFC@..., Garth Groff <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Shawn,

Yes, Plano running boards can be made to fit. I've used a few of
them,
and didn't like them because they ended up wavey and were difficult
to
glue in place without filling in the holes (yes, I know it can be
done,
but I'm pretty ham fisted).

I like the Kadee running boards much more, and use them in
kitbashes and
for replacing some cast plastic "wooden" running boards when the
prototype calls for metal. This may sound like heresy, but I keep
the
mounting pins. They allow me to fix the running boards to the
underside
of the roof with clear silicone sealant.

As Sam said, Kadee might consider tooling Morton running boards if
there
was a large demand, and told me I could forward our correspondence
to
the group to spark some interest. If anyone else besides me wants
them,
now is a good time to let him know through this group.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Coal generates far more ton-miles than any other type of
traffic, and always has. That's what I meant. It generates
more revenue in the eastern U.S. than intermodal does,
but just barely.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
One thing has remained true all these years: Coal is King.

But of course, that's all in future. :-)
Far into the future, Tim, more than 45 years forward, intermodal
would eclipse coal. So if on this list we knew anything about the
future, we would say "coal WAS king."
Tony Thompson


Tank Car Rebuild Intervals

Rod Miller
 

Someone mentioned here recently that Navy Gas was absorbed into another
company in the 1930s. Well, I have a Navy Gas tank car and my era is
late 40s - early 50s. One thought is to weather the car heavily
including lots of rust along the top of the tank and make up a story
that this car wasn't repainted as part of the merger and had managed to
make it into the early 1950s with its old scheme.

However, that story fails if tank cars were required to be rebuilt on
certain anniversaries such that a Navy Gas paint scheme couldn't have
existed legally in 1950. I have seen box cars with very old paint
schemes, but could that also have happened with a tank car?

So my question is was there a specified rebuilt/inspect/repaint
interval for non-pressure tank cars, or was that activity up to the
owner of the car?

Thanks

Rod


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
One thing has remained true all these years: Coal is King.

But of course, that's all in future. :-)
Far into the future, Tim, more than 45 years forward, intermodal would eclipse coal. So if on this list we knew anything about the future, we would say "coal WAS king."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


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