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cement hoppers in PA

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Chuck Yungkurth wrote:
Anyway, the rail transport of cement died in Pennsylvania (and maybe
the
east) died in the '50s.
Chuck, I attended a weightlifting contest in Berwick, PA (yes, I've
been in Berwick) around 1976. I drove down with some friends from
Rochester, NY.

We passed a freight yard loaded with very dusty looking cars (LO?)and
colorful EL locomotives. There was no movement when we passed the yard
about 10AM Saturday morning.

Ed


Re: AT&SF Boxcar 138082

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:49 AM, jim peters wrote:

These questions are with regard to the photo (see
references below) of AT&SF Boxcar 138082.  This car
really strikes my curiosity - first the Air Reservoir
is mounted quite far outboard from what seems to be
the usual for that time period (late 1930's).  But
what really caught my interest is the coupler
mounting.  The striker plate appears to be almost 12"
out from the body, also there is an extended mounting
of the Air Hose and Angle Cock.  Was this a 1937
experiment with 'End-of-Car' cushioning?  Or some
other form of shock control?
ATSF 138082 was one of 2000 Bx-27 class cars built in 1937 with Duryea
cushion underframes, which have been extensively discussed on this list
in the past.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: AT&SF Boxcar 138082

Tim O'Connor
 

These questions are with regard to the photo (see
references below) of AT&SF Boxcar 138082.
--------------------------------------------------

Santa Fe Bx-27, with Duryea cushion underframe.

Santa Fe mounted air reservoirs on some cars at 90
degrees to the center sill, instead of parallel as
most railroads did.

Tim O.


AT&SF Boxcar 138082

jim peters <jimpeters90@...>
 

Good morning,

These questions are with regard to the photo (see
references below) of AT&SF Boxcar 138082. This car
really strikes my curiosity - first the Air Reservoir
is mounted quite far outboard from what seems to be
the usual for that time period (late 1930's). But
what really caught my interest is the coupler
mounting. The striker plate appears to be almost 12"
out from the body, also there is an extended mounting
of the Air Hose and Angle Cock. Was this a 1937
experiment with 'End-of-Car' cushioning? Or some
other form of shock control?

This could make a rather interesting model . . .

References:
- RMJ, July 1991 - 1937 AAR BOXCARS by ED HAWKINS -
Picture on page 43
- FREIGHT CAR MODELS - Vol II, Box Cars...Book 1 -
Robert Schleicher, Editor - Picture on page 61

(Please note temporary new e-mail address)

Regards,

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

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Re: Posted a few changes

jerryglow2
 

You might want to check the Articles section. There's an article on
brake detailing in the directory but not listed and the one on
bracket grabs seems to call up info on the proposed 1923 ARA Box and
Auto Cars (duplicate or misnaming of 23ara-x29.html?)

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Adams <steamera@...> wrote:

I've posted a few changes to the Steam Freight Cars web site this
evening. See <www.steamfreightcars.com>

Look for more updates coming to a browser near you very soon.

Best regards, Rob

--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@...
Modeling CB&Q, CRI&P and Wabash operations in Keokuk, IA,
the Wabash Bluffs, IL to Keokuk branch,
and the CB&Q's Keokuk & Western branch, circa 1938
<http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com>


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Tim O'Connor
 

Jeff Aley wrote

Tim,
The Copeland collection in Harvard's Baker library has the
Ton-Mile maps for most Class 1 RR's. (There are far more Ton-Mile maps
than there are Interchange reports, to my dismay!)
Thanks, I should get over there some weekend... What do the maps look
like? Just bar graphs superimposed on geography, or thick lines (so you
have to multiply the line thickness times its length to calculate the
ton-miles???)

Tim


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony T wrote

It generates more revenue in the eastern U.S. than intermodal does,
but just barely.
Read the new Trains magazine.
Thanks but I prefer to read the official SEC 10k statements that
each public corporation publishes, and which are available online.
They contain lots of nice traffic, revenue and performance data.

Tim O.


Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Mr. Kott,

WOW! Hobbies cross!!!

Liberty ships filled with cement. Names please. And THANK YOU in
advance.

In the mid-60s I was firmly planted in Oklahoma (a long story that I
will not go into at this time) and it is very interesting how tarriffs
would be revised in order to not impact the southern California
economy. Very interesting for a now southern California resident.

Cheers to all,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Mar 8, 2006, at 7:38 PM, proto48er wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "David Smith" <dsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Cement is a commodity whose price is strongly affected by shipping
costs
> - inexpensive to produce, but dense....

>
> With all the discussion on coveed hoppers of cement and where they
owuld
> go, does anyone have a rule of thumb for economic distance cement
(and
> other low value bulk commodities) may have been shipped?....

David - I had an old aquaintance, H.B. Zachry, Sr., who did a lot of
heavy construction for the military.  This is slightly out of the
germaine time period, but the same reasoning may apply a few years
before.  By his own account, in the middle 1960's his company
constructed, from scratch, the air bases at Da Nang and Ton Su Nut
in South Viet Nam and a base or two in Thailand.  These were LARGE
projects, particularly the B-52 runways in Thailand.  He obtained
and outfitted a couple of WWII liberty ships just to carry cement
for the projects, and the ICC rearranged the tariffs on cement so
that the California plants of Kaiser Cement could send their entire
output to Southeast Asia for about a year and a half.  The tariff
changes lowered shipping costs for cement from as far away as Utah,
so that California consumers would not suffer higher construction
costs while the runways were built.  An instance of the government's
thumb on the scale!  He did not say whether the railroads were
reimbursed by the government for the lost shipping charges!  A.T.
Kott






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Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Tim & Group,

OK... I am going to bit on this....

Rock salt in the Kansas City area...???

I grew up around those parts and remember the limestone operations but
do not remember anything about rock salt. Please educate this old man.

Thanks,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Mar 7, 2006, at 4:19 PM, timboconnor@... wrote:

Other than lower Michigan, the Kansas City area, and upstate
New York, what other areas of the country produce rock salt in
great quantities? And was rock salt as popular for road use in
the 1950's as it became in later years?

Tim O.


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Upcoming Intermountain models [USRA Composite Gon]

Andy Carlson
 

All of this talk about reworking the IM USRA Gon....
If there ever was a case to be made for continuing to
produce kits in our hobby, this would be a good
reason. Doing these modifications to a finished, rtr
Gondola would be pointless.

Anyone wishing to work on a kit, I have several in my
stock that I can offer to those who wish to get one.
At $14.00 list, I will ship one postpaid in the US for
$11.00. I can be contacted at
<midcentury@...>
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Tim Gilbert wrote:
"In rebuilding USRA gons, many roads preferred to
replace with
original USRA steel ends with more modern steel
ends. How the
replacement of the ends can be accomplished on the
IM model may prove
much more difficult than substituting steel for wood
on the gon's
sides."

How so? The ends are a separate piece as well. For
example, Mont
Switzer kibashed a Monon "USRA clone" from this kit
as detailed in the
September 2004 Mainline Modeler. The cars had
unique elongated spiral
corrugated ends. These are available in resin from
Chad Boas for $2 a
pair.
http://www.buzzhos.monon.org/boas.html
(Scroll down 2/3 of the way down the page.)


Ben Hom






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Re: PRR, standards, etc

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson notes:


Read the new Trains magazine. Of course, not everyone can read a
magazine published decades into the future <g>.
Quite true. I seriously doubt that diesels will continue to be in favor...say, past 1965. We know that UP has been using turbines successfully although it is my opinion that such machines are only economical because of their ability to burn "used oil". Bunker "C" or some sort of thing. Besides, the damned things are too loud. UP has stored its modern steam engines as I write this, but I am certain that with the high cost of new diesels, surely enlightened UP mgt will put them back to work in the 60's. Of course, one can never tell. People come and go and new UP mgt might not be so enlightened. Heck, they might even consider merging with the SP again. Yeah...I know. Why do that when everything SP moves into the midwest has to go on UP tracks? Besides, UP has enough trouble with Califorians down in the LA area. Next thing we hear...UP will try to buy the WP to get into the Feather River Canyon. That's about as possible as...well...Norfolk & Western buying...say, the NKP or Wabash. Or...laughter ensues...the Pennsy joining with the NYC. No...it's not good to speculate about the future.

Mike Brock


Re: Upcoming Intermountain models [USRA Composite Gon]

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:
"In rebuilding USRA gons, many roads preferred to replace with
original USRA steel ends with more modern steel ends. How the
replacement of the ends can be accomplished on the IM model may prove
much more difficult than substituting steel for wood on the gon's
sides."

How so? The ends are a separate piece as well. For example, Mont
Switzer kibashed a Monon "USRA clone" from this kit as detailed in the
September 2004 Mainline Modeler. The cars had unique elongated spiral
corrugated ends. These are available in resin from Chad Boas for $2 a
pair.
http://www.buzzhos.monon.org/boas.html
(Scroll down 2/3 of the way down the page.)


Ben Hom


Re: PRR, standards, etc

armprem
 

Thanks Gregg.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR, standards, etc


Armand,

You don't mention specifics, but on unit train moves, there are minimal
terminal costs, and coal often moves in shipper supplied cars that the
railroads don't pay mileage or car hire on. The AN definitely made money on
a 96 mile coal haul, although I could rework the figures to show a loss if
the shipper complained the rate was too high! But, that's a whole 'nother
subject...

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast


----------
Armand Premo writes:

Gregg,It is my understanding that it is transfered to as many as five
different RRs before it reaches its final destination.How can each road
make
any profit from such a short haul?





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Re: LS&I 2201-2225 Boxcars

Jeff Skeels <jbjmskeels@...>
 

A belated Thanks to Tim O. and Ed H. for their answers to my
question about these cars.


Jeff Skeels
Jacksonville, Fl.


Re: PRR, standards, etc

ljack70117@...
 

The US of A has more oil
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...

On Mar 9, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote:

Armand,

We have enough coal to last well more than 50 years, more like several
hundred at current consumption rates.

As to South African coal being burned in Florida, it all comes down to the
delivered price per BTU. It costs less to move coal in Russian ships from
South Africa to Florida than it costs to move it from US Mines to Florida by
barge-ship and or unit trains. On PRB coal, the cheapest transportation
might be unit train to the Mississippi, barge to New Orleans thence ship,
but transferring the coal between modes costs a couple of dollars a ton each
time it is done.

There are fewer transfers all the way from South Africa.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-----------------------
Armand Premo asked:

If coal is king, why are we importing it from South Africa and in
Russian ships no less?I thought we had enough coal to last fifty
years.





Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: PRR, standards, etc

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Coal generates far more ton-miles than any other type of
traffic, and always has. That's what I meant.
As I presume you realize, ton-miles ain't dollars. When PFE was providing the largest single revenue stream to SP and UP in the 1950s, far above any other traffic category, it sure wasn't because of larger ton-miles.

It generates
more revenue in the eastern U.S. than intermodal does,
but just barely.
Read the new Trains magazine. Of course, not everyone can read a magazine published decades into the future <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Armand,

You don't mention specifics, but on unit train moves, there are minimal terminal costs, and coal often moves in shipper supplied cars that the railroads don't pay mileage or car hire on. The AN definitely made money on a 96 mile coal haul, although I could rework the figures to show a loss if the shipper complained the rate was too high! But, that's a whole 'nother subject...

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast


----------
Armand Premo writes:

Gregg,It is my understanding that it is transfered to as many as five
different RRs before it reaches its final destination.How can each road make
any profit from such a short haul?


Re: PRR, standards, etc

armprem
 

Gregg,It is my understanding that it is transfered to as many as five different RRs before it reaches its final destination.How can each road make any profit from such a short haul?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR, standards, etc


Armand,

We have enough coal to last well more than 50 years, more like several
hundred at current consumption rates.

As to South African coal being burned in Florida, it all comes down to the
delivered price per BTU. It costs less to move coal in Russian ships from
South Africa to Florida than it costs to move it from US Mines to Florida by
barge-ship and or unit trains. On PRB coal, the cheapest transportation
might be unit train to the Mississippi, barge to New Orleans thence ship,
but transferring the coal between modes costs a couple of dollars a ton each
time it is done.

There are fewer transfers all the way from South Africa.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-----------------------
Armand Premo asked:

If coal is king, why are we importing it from South Africa and in
Russian ships no less?I thought we had enough coal to last fifty
years.





Yahoo! Groups Links









--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 2/28/2006


Re: PRR, standards, etc

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Armand,

We have enough coal to last well more than 50 years, more like several hundred at current consumption rates.

As to South African coal being burned in Florida, it all comes down to the delivered price per BTU. It costs less to move coal in Russian ships from South Africa to Florida than it costs to move it from US Mines to Florida by barge-ship and or unit trains. On PRB coal, the cheapest transportation might be unit train to the Mississippi, barge to New Orleans thence ship, but transferring the coal between modes costs a couple of dollars a ton each time it is done.

There are fewer transfers all the way from South Africa.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-----------------------
Armand Premo asked:

If coal is king, why are we importing it from South Africa and in
Russian ships no less?I thought we had enough coal to last fifty
years.


Re: Upcoming Intermountain models [USRA Composite Gon]

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jerry Glow asked:
"Would steel side rebuilds be done by merely replacing the wood and
leaving the bracing (somewhat like the Detail Assoc kit) or would
they have been all new steel sides along with the ends making them a
fairly major rebuild?"

Richard Hendrickson answered:
"As is often the case, it depends. The NYC, C&O, and W&LE cars got
entirely new steel sides/bodies. The KCS cars, when they finally got
steel sides, kept their original USRA side framing."

Add PRR to the cars that kept their original side framing, though
they added three vertical members on some cars (one in the center
panel, one in each of the end panels).
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G24

See Mont Switzer's article in the February 2001 issue of Mainline
Modeler (still available from the publisher) for how to kitbash the
rebuilt PRR Class G24 cars from the Intermountain kit and Elden
Gatwood's article in the February 2004 issue of The Keystone Modeler
(no longer available online but available from the PRRT&HS on CD-
ROM) for more prototype information plus information on upgrading
the PSC HO scale brass model. Ordering information for the TKM CD
can be found on the last page of the current issue:
http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm


Ben Hom

141461 - 141480 of 193620