Date   

Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Brian J Carlson
Subject: [STMFC] DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only
photo I have is a small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the
July 1991 RMJ. I was wondering what trucks were installed
under this series?
Hi Brian,

The EL diagram book I have shows this series as having "Symington Gould TF-5227 & 5281R" sideframes.
Bolster's a Symington Gould Pattern BO-5343. CRECO brake beams, and 5.5" x 10" journals. Cars BLT
Dec 1944 - Jan 1945. Capy 3712. Load Lmt 123200. Lt Wt 45800. Westinghouse Brake Gear. Equipco
or Ajax brake gear. Roof: SREMCO. DWG-7R-2504-C.

Hope this helps. Bring it to Cleveland in the fall.

SGL


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

al_brown03
 

There's a photo of DL&w 51496, in which the trucks show up a little
better, in Model Railroading Sept/Oct 1984, p 12. (The article is
entitled "Athearn 40-foot Box Car Prototypes", which 22 years later
gave me a chuckle.) The trucks are "Bettendorfs" of fairly generic
appearance, i.e. not Dalmans or National B-1s. I'm not a good enough
truck scholar to tell more specifically than that. I have RP CYC 4 &
have been looking at Richard Hendrickson's article, but there are
enough combinations of equipment in trucks of this type that I haven't
figured out what the spotting features are.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only photo I
have is a
small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the July 1991 RMJ. I was
wondering
what trucks were installed under this series?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: NdeM.

Rod Miller
 


If you would like some photos of 40' Mexican box cars email me your
address off line and I will email you some photos. James Hickey

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Arnold" <mrdata1968@...> wrote:

Sirs,

I know that the NdeM did travel on de U.S. tracks (U.P. perhaps?).
Did the NdeM had their own style boxcars?
If so, are there 1:87 models of that type to get?

Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.
Hi James,

I have an O scale Walthers decal set 64-24 for an NdeM box car.

According the the painting and lettering diagram in the set, the car
body is orange with an approx. 2 foot wide red stripe just above the
middle of the car. In the stripe above the reporting marks in silver
is

FERROCARRILLES
NACIONALES
DE MEXICO

and in the stripe on the right side of the door are large words in
silver CARRO TIENDA. As far as I could find out that means holding
car.

There is a panel in the decal set that says

ASIGNADO EXCLUSIVAMENTE A
CERVECERIA MOCTEZUMA S.A.
PARA TRAFICO ENTRE
ORIZABA Y MEXICO

which my high school spanish translates into "Assigned exclusively to
the brewery Moctezuma S.A. for traffic between Orizaba and [the rest
of] Mexico". I have been told that Orizaba is noted for its breweries.

The three road numbers in the set are 40762, 62204, and 76873.
According to my 1953 Railway Equipment Register, the middle number was
assigned to a 40 foot 10 foot IH box car; the other two numbers don't
appear in the register.

All the dimensional data is metric. The inside height is 318cm which is
10 feet six inches. The inside length is 1234 which is 40 feet six
inches. The capacity is given as 45360 KGS which is 50 tons. The Nuevo
date is 7/61, which seems a bit new for what dimensionally is a car I
associate with early 50s design, and which also may put this topic
outside the time bounds of this list.

Any photos or information you or other list members can be provided
would be greatly appreciated. If the date is correct that scheme would
be too new for my era, so this set may join my Navy Gas car on the
auction block. However, I still would like to know more about the car
and its use.

Thanks

Rod


Re: Harriman Codes

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Allen Rueter wrote:

AAR mechanical & type codes, must of been insufficient or to detailed
for the railroads to use at some level, for them to spend the money, go to
the trouble of making their own codes for tonnage and/or size.
They would of only done this to save them selves money, or customer demand.
Many of these codes were developed by roads before the introduction of the Master Car Builder Mechanical Designations into the ORER's (the MCB later became the ARA which became the AAR). The second and later "alphas" designated sub-type of car. The RR's Mechanical Departments wanted something related to design to simplify maintenance.


I don't know Harriman code groups (third part) at all, do they convey
any type of size? or is it more random, ie assigned the next number
as that series was built.
Next design built.


It seems the ATSF had a car code system, besides Tim eluding to the
NW's system, did others have there own?
Must be O'Connor because I know even less about N&W's system than the others I cited earlier.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Harriman Codes -Some Other RR's Systems

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Allen Rueter wrote:

Larry,
I didn't know what Harriman codes were, I do now, I have seen
them frequently with out knowing they had a name. To keep this in the steam
era, Are GST (General Superintendent of Transportation) codes relevant
before 1960?
What other freight car code systems are there (besides AAR/ORER codes),
did most railroads have some code of their own?
I assume by what you mean as the GST Codes are those codes first included in the ORER's sometime after 1961 in the column AAR Car Type Code. (My copy of the April 1961 ORER does not have this column - my copy of the 1/1967 does.)

Some RR's had their own codes.

The first letter of the Mechanical Designations (used in the ORER's prior to 1920) were basically the same as the PRR's - designations for later car types like the covered hoppers diverged - the AAR designation was "LO" while the PRR considered just another "H" Hopper. At first, the Pennsy used uncapped "alpha" letters to differentiate different designs, but later adopted numbers to designate the different designs. During rebuildings, the Pennsy added an uncapped "alpha" digit to the original designation. And the PRR used no hyphens. This will keep Ben Hom off your back.

The ATSF's system capped the first letter of the car type and uncapped the final letter. For instance, "Bx" designated for a boxcar; "Rr" for a reefer; "Ga" for a Gondola, etc.. I don't know their classification for a Covered Hopper.

The NYC's reference was the Lot Number of the car when built with new lots being assigned sometimes during major rebuildings. After the Lot Number was a hyphen and the initial for the car type - "B" for Boxcar; "G" for Gon; "F" for Flat; "H" for Hoppers both Open-Top and Covered; etc.. This system may have been dandy for NYC's Mechanical Department's comprehension, but hell on others.

The B&M had a Lot System like the NYC's, but no one paid attention to it. It seemed like that some car accountant newly hired on a rainy day dreamed it up. No one used it, preferring to use the car numbers instead. Besides between 1899 and 1951, there were only 64 Lots anyway.

Other roads had their own systems which I don't know as much (which ain't much) as the above. Many of the smaller roads just used the car numbers as their form of reference.

Operating personnel, particularly freight train conductors, had their own codes which they used in the wheel reports, switch lists, etc.. "A" for Automobile; "B" for Boxcar; "C" for a Coal or Coke Car; "D" or "DD" for Double Deck Stock Car (later "D" for Side Dump Car); "F" for Flat; "G" for Gon; "H" for Hoppers (sometimes later "CH" for Covered Hoppers); "R" for Reefers; "S" for Stock Cars; "T" for Tank Cars. This terminology was not universal as each individual seemed to have their own ideas of which variation to use. When I parse a wheel report, I pay little attention to these codes and rely more on the ORER's Mechanical Designation.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Ed, Well, if you want to put July 1991 into context, I was 1 month away from
starting my Freshman year at Fredonia State College in NY.

Thanks for the information.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749



On Saturday, March 11, 2006, at 03:38 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only photo I have
is a
small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the July 1991 RMJ. I was
wondering
what trucks were installed under this series?
Brian,
July 1991. Gee, my hair actually had color other than gray back then!
The truck side frames were Symington-Gould and the trucks were spring
plankless. My preference for these is the Tichy so-called "Bettendorf"
truck. I think this truck captures the right appearance as well as any.
Richard or others might want to give their insight.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Harriman Codes

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

AAR mechanical & type codes, must of been insufficient or to detailed
for the railroads to use at some level, for them to spend the money, go to
the trouble of making their own codes for tonnage and/or size.
They would of only done this to save them selves money, or customer demand.

I don't know Harriman code groups (third part) at all, do they convey
any type of size? or is it more random, ie assigned the next number
as that series was built.

It seems the ATSF had a car code system, besides Tim eluding to the
NW's system, did others have there own?

On Sat, Mar 11, 2006 at 04:34:21PM -0600, Allen Rueter wrote:
Larry,
I didn't know what Harriman codes were, I do now, I have seen
them frequently with out knowing they had a name. To keep this in the steam
era, Are GST (General Superintendent of Transportation) codes relevant
before 1960?
What other freight car code systems are there (besides AAR/ORER codes),
did most railroads have some code of their own?
--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Re: Sunshine Square Corner Boxcar for IC, Soo and DSSA mini-kit question

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I have the mini-kit and I used Intermountain 40898 Undec 10'6" IH AAR
boxcar. This number isn't listed on IM's website but 40899 is. 40899 is just
a different color, gray instead of red.

Ordering direct from IM is easy. Just call (800)472-2530 and have your
credit card handy. They ship quickly with no shipping charge. At the same
time you can order some of those parts you've always wanted. Just describe
them as to what part from what kit and they will send you the complete
sprue. $1 per sprue if I remember right.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: more NKP 50' DD box cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Tim:
The 86200-86349 boxcars were built by Greenville in 1955. The NKP diagram
book I have shows the same combination roof as the 88000 series.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only photo I have is a
small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the July 1991 RMJ. I was wondering
what trucks were installed under this series?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


overhanging diagonal panel roof

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Does anyone make a 40' overhanging diagonal panel roof in HO. I need some
for a kitbash. I would prefer a separate aftermarket part since it will be
grafted onto another car. My other option is to cut down a Branchline 50'
roof. Are the roof panels the same width for 40' and 50' lengths?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Sunshine Square Corner Boxcar for IC, Soo and DSSA mini-kit question

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Undec IM cars are available from Intermountain. Most dealers do not stock
undec cars anymore so you'll probably have to special order them. I don't
know the mini-kit so I am not sure what IM kit you need.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: <tjlawler@netzero.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:57 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine Square Corner Boxcar for IC, Soo and DSSA mini-kit
question


I want to build this mini-kit (see subject line) and need a little help
picking the correct IM car. I found 10' 6" 40' (only decorated cars) at a
hobby shop. They appear to match the car sides but I am uncertain about the
roof. Question: Is there a particular IM car that is appropriate for this
mini-kit or does any 10' 6" car work? Second, does anyone know if undec
cars are available?
Thanks for the help,
Tom Lawler







Yahoo! Groups Links







Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Art,
When I was a kid my Dad hauled concrete culverts out of Iowa Concrete
Products in Hampton, Iowa. Some Sundays I'd help him put in a
rebuilt engine in one of the lift trucks. Their spur either was or
was immediately adjacent to the connection between the M&StL and the
CGW on the north edge of Hampton. Their "silo" for storing concrete
was the covered hopper car.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "buchwaldfam" <duff@...> wrote:

I've posted this on another site, but didn't get an answer, so
sorry for the cross posting. Anyway, since you folks seem to know
something about how redi-mix plants operate, maybe you can answer
this question. In an arial photo of a cement plant, piles of sand
and gravel can clearly be seen, along with a crane which is in the
right location to reach the piles, the railroad spur, and the
hopper
which feeds the conveyor, which in turn feeds the mixing hopper.
There is a large, one story, rectangular building, which is
parallel
to the same spur. What doesn't show up is some sort of silo or
covered shed to unload covered hoppers and store the delivered
cement. In the mid 1950s, would cement still be bagged and
delivered
to a "local" redi-mix plant exclusively in box cars? I'm assuming
that the building mentioned above is the "silo" in this era? If so,
would there also be some way of unloading covered hoppers? Perhaps
some porable conveyor which would be wheeled around and place under
the hopper outlet. (Nothing that matches this discription is
visible
in the picture. Finally, how would bagged cement be transferred to
the mixing hopper? Seems like a lot of wasted labor to assemble
enough material to fill up a single mack truck!

Thanks,
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@> wrote:



-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Jerry Dziedzic
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:48 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@> wrote:


there are certainly a number of special types
(asbestos cement, for example).

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff
Yeah, and refractory cement, too.

SGL
Good point, Garth and Schuyler. It's another possibility to
consider.

I'm discounting it somewhat, because what I recall about the
consignee
(s) is that they were your ordinary, right-down-the-block
ready mix plants.
Matters not. Ordinary, right-down-the-block ready mix plants can
make any kind (well, most can) of
concrete you want. All that matters is that they use the right
cement in the mix. It's not like
they make the same kind of concrete all day every day. They
might
make garden-variety 3000 pound
concrete (compressive strength) this morning, and crank out 6000
psi concrete this afternoon. As
long as the right mix goes in the right truck and gets delivered
to the right site, you're golden.
Screw it up, and you're paying for ripping out concrete, probably
not found out until the concrete
is at least 14 days old when the first test cylinders are
broken.
It can cost a LOT of money to do
that. And lose a customer.

Also, I believe many of these different
grades of cement are produced by adjusting the proportions of
micro-ingredients, such as iron ore and gypsum, to obtain the
desired properties. So, most mills had the ability to
produce a wide range of grades.
Not necessarily. Having those different ingredients around might
be a real inventory headache,
and/or call for shipping them a long ways. I can see that a mill
might be able to produce, say,
refractory cement, and be the only one in the eastern US or
something like that.

I can think of one instance where a plant might make the same
kind
of concrete for days on end. I
worked on a project, when I was still in kolledge, which had a
subbasement floor below the
watertable, and we did a 350'x400'+ x 8'-6" thick monolithic slab
for the basement. The reason was
two-fold: one to keep the water out, and two, to hold the boat
down in the water when and if the
watertable rose due to flooding. Not too good to have the whole
building complex start to float
away, now would it be? In any event, it took about 40 days of 24-
hour operation to pour that slab,
keeping a wet working face the entire time.


SGL


Re: NdeM.

jthirtysix
 

If you would like some photos of 40' Mexican box cars email me your
address off line and I will email you some photos. James Hickey

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Arnold" <mrdata1968@...> wrote:

Sirs,

I know that the NdeM did travel on de U.S. tracks (U.P. perhaps?).
Did the NdeM had their own style boxcars?
If so, are there 1:87 models of that type to get?

Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.


Re: Sunshine Square Corner Boxcar for IC, Soo and DSSA mini-kit question

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Tom,

I recently had my dealer order me some undec Intermountain 10'6" cars so I could build a few of the cars that Mont Switzer had in Mainline Modeler within the past year or so; I also ordered some ends, etc. and my dealer had no problem getting any of this stuff.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD
www.pocahontasmodels.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <tjlawler@netzero.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:57 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine Square Corner Boxcar for IC, Soo and DSSA mini-kit question


I want to build this mini-kit (see subject line) and need a little help picking the correct IM car. I found 10' 6" 40' (only decorated cars) at a hobby shop. They appear to match the car sides but I am uncertain about the roof. Question: Is there a particular IM car that is appropriate for this mini-kit or does any 10' 6" car work? Second, does anyone know if undec cars are available?
Thanks for the help,
Tom Lawler






Yahoo! Groups Links








Sunshine Square Corner Boxcar for IC, Soo and DSSA mini-kit question

tjlawler@netzero.net <tjlawler@...>
 

I want to build this mini-kit (see subject line) and need a little help picking the correct IM car. I found 10' 6" 40' (only decorated cars) at a hobby shop. They appear to match the car sides but I am uncertain about the roof. Question: Is there a particular IM car that is appropriate for this mini-kit or does any 10' 6" car work? Second, does anyone know if undec cars are available?
Thanks for the help,
Tom Lawler


Re: Harriman Codes

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

Larry,
I didn't know what Harriman codes were, I do now, I have seen
them frequently with out knowing they had a name. To keep this in the steam
era, Are GST (General Superintendent of Transportation) codes relevant
before 1960?
What other freight car code systems are there (besides AAR/ORER codes),
did most railroads have some code of their own?

--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Re: NdeM.

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Arnold,

In the steam era, most Mexican boxcars were built by the US carbuilders. NdeM and the other Mexican railroads were AAR members, like the Canadians, and NdeM boxcars could be found anywhere in the USA and Canada that a shipper in Mexico sent a load to. For customs reasons, they were only to be sent back empty, or loaded if possible, to Mexico, same as Canadian cars were supposed to be returned to Canada.

I am in N scale, so I can't say which HO cars would be appropriate. But in N the deLuxe Innovations 1944 AAR box closely resembles the Mexican cars I recall seeing in that country.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

------
Arnold asked:


Sirs,

I know that the NdeM did travel on U.S. tracks (U.P. perhaps?).
Did the NdeM had their own style boxcars? If so, are there 1:87 models of that type to get?


more NKP 50' DD box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed Hawkins wrote (regarding NKP 86000-86199 built 1949)

While these cars and other similar 50' automobile cars had "diagonal panel"
roofs, they actually were a combination of diagonal panels and Murphy raised
rectangular panels
Ed, I have a builder photo of NKP 86250 built in 1955. Do you know if this
car also had this combination roof? Do you know the builder? -- It kind of
looks like a Greenville builder logo (flattened diamond) but I'm not sure.

Tim O'Connor


NdeM.

Arnold van Heyst
 

Sirs,

I know that the NdeM did travel on de U.S. tracks (U.P. perhaps?).
Did the NdeM had their own style boxcars?
If so, are there 1:87 models of that type to get?

Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.

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