Date   

Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 11, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

The truck side frames were Symington-Gould and the trucks were spring
plankless. My preference for these is the Tichy so-called "Bettendorf"
truck. I think this truck captures the right appearance as well as
any.
Richard or others might want to give their insight.
I agree.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

Schuyler Larrabee
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Art,
When I was a kid my Dad hauled concrete culverts out of Iowa Concrete
Products in Hampton, Iowa. Some Sundays I'd help him put in a rebuilt
engine in one of the lift trucks. Their spur either was or was
immediately adjacent to the connection between the M&StL
and the CGW on the north edge of Hampton. Their "silo" for storing
concrete was the covered hopper car.

Gene Green
I'm much more comfortable with the cement mill side of the
business than ready mix. But I agree with Gene. The silos
seen in many ready mix plants stored aggregate (typically,
gravel) and sand. The cement was unloaded through the bottom
outlet gates of the car, usually discharging into a bin below
the track (between the gauge). A screw conveyor would be
sufficient to move the cement from the bin to the mixer to be
blended with other ingredients: for concrete, aggregate and
sand; for "cement", as to lay up brick or concrete block, with sand.

Schuyler, if you have your ears on, don't be bashful about
correcting this info.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ
Nothing to take objection to as to methods of moving things, Jerry. I've seen cement blown around
with air as well as conveyors.

But what is used to lay up brick and concrete block (stone, too) is mortar. Mortar is made from
cement too, as you list it. Cement, plus sand and water, sometimes with other additives for
controlling the workability, length of time before hydration occurs, temperature in which it can be
used, things like that.

But cement, in the masonry and concrete business, is . . .cement. Mortar is mortar, concrete is
concrete. And neither one is . . . cement. Sorry to be so stiff-necked about this, but it just a
personal thing that gets to me.

SGL


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

I've just loaded a photo of a car from this series.

Pat Wider

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only photo I have is a
small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the July 1991 RMJ. I was wondering
what trucks were installed under this series?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /DL&W51500jpg
Uploaded by : patrickwider <pwider@sbcglobal.net>
Description : DL&W 51500 '37 AAR 40' Box Car

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/DL%26W51500jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

patrickwider <pwider@sbcglobal.net>


Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

Jerry Dziedzic
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Art,
When I was a kid my Dad hauled concrete culverts out of Iowa Concrete
Products in Hampton, Iowa. Some Sundays I'd help him put in a
rebuilt engine in one of the lift trucks. Their spur either was or
was immediately adjacent to the connection between the M&StL and the
CGW on the north edge of Hampton. Their "silo" for storing concrete
was the covered hopper car.

Gene Green
I'm much more comfortable with the cement mill side of the business
than ready mix. But I agree with Gene. The silos seen in many ready
mix plants stored aggregate (typically, gravel) and sand. The cement
was unloaded through the bottom outlet gates of the car, usually
discharging into a bin below the track (between the gauge). A screw
conveyor would be sufficient to move the cement from the bin to the
mixer to be blended with other ingredients: for concrete, aggregate and
sand; for "cement", as to lay up brick or concrete block, with sand.

Schuyler, if you have your ears on, don't be bashful about correcting
this info.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Re: SP/T&NO S-40-5 stock car

Lee Gautreaux
 

Steve,

Westerfield has some images of models on their website as well as
some info and background.

http://www.westerfield.biz/

Scroll down to #42.

For prototype photos, I'd ask Tom to borrow his copy of Tony's Vol
#1.

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/




Anybody have photos/drawings of these stock cars, especially the
T&NO version?

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer


Re: NdeM.

Jack Mullen
 

Rod Miller wrote:

I have an O scale Walthers decal set 64-24 for an NdeM box car.

... in the stripe on the right side of the door are large words in
silver CARRO TIENDA. As far as I could find out that means holding
car.
I believe this denotes an insulated car.

There is a panel in the decal set that says

ASIGNADO EXCLUSIVAMENTE A
CERVECERIA MOCTEZUMA S.A.
PARA TRAFICO ENTRE
ORIZABA Y MEXICO

which my high school spanish translates into "Assigned exclusively
to
the brewery Moctezuma S.A. for traffic between Orizaba and [the
rest
of] Mexico". I have been told that Orizaba is noted for its
breweries.
I suggest that the sense of this is for traffic between Orizaba and
Mexico [City].

Jack Mullen


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Ed Hawkins
 

On Saturday, March 11, 2006, at 03:38 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am building a model of one of the above cars.  The only photo I have
is a
small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the July 1991 RMJ. I was
wondering
what trucks were installed under this series?
Brian,
July 1991. Gee, my hair actually had color other than gray back then!
The truck side frames were Symington-Gould and the trucks were spring
plankless. My preference for these is the Tichy so-called "Bettendorf"
truck. I think this truck captures the right appearance as well as any.
Richard or others might want to give their insight.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Harriman Codes -Some Other RR's Systems

George Hollwedel <georgeloop1338@...>
 

Tim Gilbert wrote:

The ATSF's system capped the first letter of the car type and uncapped
the final letter. For instance, "Bx" designated for a boxcar; "Rr" for a
reefer; "Ga" for a Gondola, etc.. I don't know their classification for
a Covered Hopper.

I add:

Santa Fe used Ga for gondolas, open hoppers and covered hoppers




George Hollwedel
Prototype N Scale Models
georgeloop@austin.rr.com
310 Loma Verde Street
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.


SP/T&NO S-40-5 stock car

Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

Anybody have photos/drawings of these stock cars, especially the T&NO version?

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@swcentral.org
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417


Re: Harriman Codes -Some Other RR's Systems

Larry Rice
 

Allen Rueter asked...

"Are GST (General Superintendent of Transportation) codes relevant before
1960?"

To which Tim Gilbert answered...

"I assume by what you mean as the GST Codes are those codes first
included in the ORER's sometime after 1961 in the column AAR Car Type
Code. (My copy of the April 1961 ORER does not have this column - my
copy of the 1/1967 does.)"

Okay... I'm going to try this again... Allen is referring to Great
Northern's General Superintendent of Transportation (GST) Codes. See message
52235. The GST codes were not related to the AAR Mechanical Designations,
nor the AAR Car Type Codes, and the GST codes were not shown in any ORER.
The GST codes were an internal company system that, in effect and probably
by intention, organized and standardized the operating employees "shorthand"
when referring to cars of broadly similar features that were immediately
identifiable.

Allen also asked...
" What other freight car code systems are there (besides AAR/ORER codes),
did most railroads have some code of their own?"

As Mr. Gilbert has explained, yes. I'd add that most seem to be more
comparable to the aforementioned "Harriman" type which identifies classes
rather than this GN scheme used by the operating employees and appearing on
train lists. Good grief Allen, I've been harping for years about the need
for an X29 on every steam era SP&S layout... Wheredaya think X29 comes from?


Larry Rice
Port Townsend WA

PS... When did GN adopt this GST scheme? I don't know... I do note that the
stenciling applied to the cars (near and below the load limit line) appears
much more frequently after 1961. Try asking on the GN list.


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Brian J Carlson
Subject: [STMFC] DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only
photo I have is a small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the
July 1991 RMJ. I was wondering what trucks were installed
under this series?
Hi Brian,

The EL diagram book I have shows this series as having "Symington Gould TF-5227 & 5281R" sideframes.
Bolster's a Symington Gould Pattern BO-5343. CRECO brake beams, and 5.5" x 10" journals. Cars BLT
Dec 1944 - Jan 1945. Capy 3712. Load Lmt 123200. Lt Wt 45800. Westinghouse Brake Gear. Equipco
or Ajax brake gear. Roof: SREMCO. DWG-7R-2504-C.

Hope this helps. Bring it to Cleveland in the fall.

SGL


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

al_brown03
 

There's a photo of DL&w 51496, in which the trucks show up a little
better, in Model Railroading Sept/Oct 1984, p 12. (The article is
entitled "Athearn 40-foot Box Car Prototypes", which 22 years later
gave me a chuckle.) The trucks are "Bettendorfs" of fairly generic
appearance, i.e. not Dalmans or National B-1s. I'm not a good enough
truck scholar to tell more specifically than that. I have RP CYC 4 &
have been looking at Richard Hendrickson's article, but there are
enough combinations of equipment in trucks of this type that I haven't
figured out what the spotting features are.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only photo I
have is a
small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the July 1991 RMJ. I was
wondering
what trucks were installed under this series?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: NdeM.

Rod Miller
 


If you would like some photos of 40' Mexican box cars email me your
address off line and I will email you some photos. James Hickey

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Arnold" <mrdata1968@...> wrote:

Sirs,

I know that the NdeM did travel on de U.S. tracks (U.P. perhaps?).
Did the NdeM had their own style boxcars?
If so, are there 1:87 models of that type to get?

Arnold van Heyst
Netherlands.
Hi James,

I have an O scale Walthers decal set 64-24 for an NdeM box car.

According the the painting and lettering diagram in the set, the car
body is orange with an approx. 2 foot wide red stripe just above the
middle of the car. In the stripe above the reporting marks in silver
is

FERROCARRILLES
NACIONALES
DE MEXICO

and in the stripe on the right side of the door are large words in
silver CARRO TIENDA. As far as I could find out that means holding
car.

There is a panel in the decal set that says

ASIGNADO EXCLUSIVAMENTE A
CERVECERIA MOCTEZUMA S.A.
PARA TRAFICO ENTRE
ORIZABA Y MEXICO

which my high school spanish translates into "Assigned exclusively to
the brewery Moctezuma S.A. for traffic between Orizaba and [the rest
of] Mexico". I have been told that Orizaba is noted for its breweries.

The three road numbers in the set are 40762, 62204, and 76873.
According to my 1953 Railway Equipment Register, the middle number was
assigned to a 40 foot 10 foot IH box car; the other two numbers don't
appear in the register.

All the dimensional data is metric. The inside height is 318cm which is
10 feet six inches. The inside length is 1234 which is 40 feet six
inches. The capacity is given as 45360 KGS which is 50 tons. The Nuevo
date is 7/61, which seems a bit new for what dimensionally is a car I
associate with early 50s design, and which also may put this topic
outside the time bounds of this list.

Any photos or information you or other list members can be provided
would be greatly appreciated. If the date is correct that scheme would
be too new for my era, so this set may join my Navy Gas car on the
auction block. However, I still would like to know more about the car
and its use.

Thanks

Rod


Re: Harriman Codes

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Allen Rueter wrote:

AAR mechanical & type codes, must of been insufficient or to detailed
for the railroads to use at some level, for them to spend the money, go to
the trouble of making their own codes for tonnage and/or size.
They would of only done this to save them selves money, or customer demand.
Many of these codes were developed by roads before the introduction of the Master Car Builder Mechanical Designations into the ORER's (the MCB later became the ARA which became the AAR). The second and later "alphas" designated sub-type of car. The RR's Mechanical Departments wanted something related to design to simplify maintenance.


I don't know Harriman code groups (third part) at all, do they convey
any type of size? or is it more random, ie assigned the next number
as that series was built.
Next design built.


It seems the ATSF had a car code system, besides Tim eluding to the
NW's system, did others have there own?
Must be O'Connor because I know even less about N&W's system than the others I cited earlier.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Harriman Codes -Some Other RR's Systems

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Allen Rueter wrote:

Larry,
I didn't know what Harriman codes were, I do now, I have seen
them frequently with out knowing they had a name. To keep this in the steam
era, Are GST (General Superintendent of Transportation) codes relevant
before 1960?
What other freight car code systems are there (besides AAR/ORER codes),
did most railroads have some code of their own?
I assume by what you mean as the GST Codes are those codes first included in the ORER's sometime after 1961 in the column AAR Car Type Code. (My copy of the April 1961 ORER does not have this column - my copy of the 1/1967 does.)

Some RR's had their own codes.

The first letter of the Mechanical Designations (used in the ORER's prior to 1920) were basically the same as the PRR's - designations for later car types like the covered hoppers diverged - the AAR designation was "LO" while the PRR considered just another "H" Hopper. At first, the Pennsy used uncapped "alpha" letters to differentiate different designs, but later adopted numbers to designate the different designs. During rebuildings, the Pennsy added an uncapped "alpha" digit to the original designation. And the PRR used no hyphens. This will keep Ben Hom off your back.

The ATSF's system capped the first letter of the car type and uncapped the final letter. For instance, "Bx" designated for a boxcar; "Rr" for a reefer; "Ga" for a Gondola, etc.. I don't know their classification for a Covered Hopper.

The NYC's reference was the Lot Number of the car when built with new lots being assigned sometimes during major rebuildings. After the Lot Number was a hyphen and the initial for the car type - "B" for Boxcar; "G" for Gon; "F" for Flat; "H" for Hoppers both Open-Top and Covered; etc.. This system may have been dandy for NYC's Mechanical Department's comprehension, but hell on others.

The B&M had a Lot System like the NYC's, but no one paid attention to it. It seemed like that some car accountant newly hired on a rainy day dreamed it up. No one used it, preferring to use the car numbers instead. Besides between 1899 and 1951, there were only 64 Lots anyway.

Other roads had their own systems which I don't know as much (which ain't much) as the above. Many of the smaller roads just used the car numbers as their form of reference.

Operating personnel, particularly freight train conductors, had their own codes which they used in the wheel reports, switch lists, etc.. "A" for Automobile; "B" for Boxcar; "C" for a Coal or Coke Car; "D" or "DD" for Double Deck Stock Car (later "D" for Side Dump Car); "F" for Flat; "G" for Gon; "H" for Hoppers (sometimes later "CH" for Covered Hoppers); "R" for Reefers; "S" for Stock Cars; "T" for Tank Cars. This terminology was not universal as each individual seemed to have their own ideas of which variation to use. When I parse a wheel report, I pay little attention to these codes and rely more on the ORER's Mechanical Designation.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Ed, Well, if you want to put July 1991 into context, I was 1 month away from
starting my Freshman year at Fredonia State College in NY.

Thanks for the information.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749



On Saturday, March 11, 2006, at 03:38 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am building a model of one of the above cars. The only photo I have
is a
small one from an Ed Hawkins article in the July 1991 RMJ. I was
wondering
what trucks were installed under this series?
Brian,
July 1991. Gee, my hair actually had color other than gray back then!
The truck side frames were Symington-Gould and the trucks were spring
plankless. My preference for these is the Tichy so-called "Bettendorf"
truck. I think this truck captures the right appearance as well as any.
Richard or others might want to give their insight.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Harriman Codes

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

AAR mechanical & type codes, must of been insufficient or to detailed
for the railroads to use at some level, for them to spend the money, go to
the trouble of making their own codes for tonnage and/or size.
They would of only done this to save them selves money, or customer demand.

I don't know Harriman code groups (third part) at all, do they convey
any type of size? or is it more random, ie assigned the next number
as that series was built.

It seems the ATSF had a car code system, besides Tim eluding to the
NW's system, did others have there own?

On Sat, Mar 11, 2006 at 04:34:21PM -0600, Allen Rueter wrote:
Larry,
I didn't know what Harriman codes were, I do now, I have seen
them frequently with out knowing they had a name. To keep this in the steam
era, Are GST (General Superintendent of Transportation) codes relevant
before 1960?
What other freight car code systems are there (besides AAR/ORER codes),
did most railroads have some code of their own?
--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Re: Sunshine Square Corner Boxcar for IC, Soo and DSSA mini-kit question

Jim and Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

I have the mini-kit and I used Intermountain 40898 Undec 10'6" IH AAR
boxcar. This number isn't listed on IM's website but 40899 is. 40899 is just
a different color, gray instead of red.

Ordering direct from IM is easy. Just call (800)472-2530 and have your
credit card handy. They ship quickly with no shipping charge. At the same
time you can order some of those parts you've always wanted. Just describe
them as to what part from what kit and they will send you the complete
sprue. $1 per sprue if I remember right.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: more NKP 50' DD box cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Tim:
The 86200-86349 boxcars were built by Greenville in 1955. The NKP diagram
book I have shows the same combination roof as the 88000 series.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

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