Date   

those tank cars

Arnold van Heyst
 

Use firefox as a browser.

Arnold van Heyst.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:


Jon, when I click on:

www.southerncarandfoundry.com<http://www.southerncarandfoundry.com/>

I get "Page cannot be displayed."

??

SGL


Re: wood vs styrene (was a very short intro)

James Eckman
 



From: "David Smith" <dsmith@davinci-center.org>

I've got the advantage of having actually seen Bruce's wood flatcar
decks and it's about as realistic an effect as I have even seen on a
model.
I use both, For decks in O scale I think wood works well but styrene is faster to assemble and prep!

On Thu, March 16, 2006 2:55 pm, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

Do you really think someone comes along and scrubs down the decks of flatcars?
Didn't the Westside Lumber company used to wash off their lumber flats? I remember reading it somewhere. There's a prototype for almost everything ;) There may have been other special reasons for this as well.

Jim Eckman


ADMIN: Clang! Three more members in Moderate Jail

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Try as I may...I cannot understand some members that exhibit a pronounced ability to write but, at the same time, seem unable to read. Did I not say that messages about bridges and other out of scope issues regarding New York are out of scope?

I have neither the knowledge nor time to try to decide if someone was insulted regarding New York bridges. I do know that most of the members WERE exposed to issues not related to the group's subject matter. And I thought I was rather clear that such matters were not part of the subject matter for the STMFC.

Therefore, I have thrown three members into Moderate Jail. Yes, there is room for more. They will no longer be able to post messages not approved. I have not the slightest interest in punishing anyone but I do intend to terminate discussions about Penn Central, bridges in New York etc. If enough members ask for it, I'll form a new group and those interested can beat their brains out fighting about who burned or didn't burn down any bridges in New York or aqnywhere else.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: those tank cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Jon, when I click on:

www.southerncarandfoundry.com<http://www.southerncarandfoundry.com/>
I get "Page cannot be displayed."

??

SGL


Re: 2006 St. Louis RPM Meet Announcement

golden1014
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

"...I'm uncomfortable about being described as
"America's leading freight car historian," especially
on a program that includes the likes of Ed Hawkins,
Ted Culotta and now (perhaps) Ben Hom. Could you word
the promotional rhetoric a bit less extravagantly,
John?"

Richard,

OK, I'll think about it.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


those tank cars

Jon Cagle <jscagle@...>
 

Gentlemen:

About those tank cars... No, they are not ready, yet. A bit more work has been done since Prototype Rails, but still a ways off. There like a fine wine, they need to age well !

I don't quite know how RMC printed what they printed except from maybe a bit of confusion, so we will leave it at that.

As for the web site. www.southerncarandfoundry.com<http://www.southerncarandfoundry.com/>

I will keep you all posted about the progress. Sorry for the confusion there.

jon


Re: Southern Car & Foundry Tank Cars

Rob Adams
 

Don't forget the Steam Freight Cars web site. Links to many of the manufacturer's sites may be found there as well...including SC&F. Go to Modeling, then Click the "By Manufacturer" link.

Regards, Rob

Gene Green wrote:

I, too, saw that notice, and since I have a personal interest in at
least one of those cars, I e-mailed Job Cagle of SC&F to ask him.
Here
is his reply:

"No, the tank cars are not ready. And I do not know why that was
printed. I did send an email to Bill S. @ RMC telling him that are
new
web site is up and that we had two new On3 projects that are
available,
but nothing on the HO tank cars. "

Regards, Spen Kellogg
How do we access the SC&F website? A search for Southern Car & Foundry
or SC&F didn't get me anywhere.
Gene Green

--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@netins.net
Modeling CB&Q, CRI&P and Wabash operations in Keokuk, IA,
the Wabash Bluffs, IL to Keokuk branch, and the CB&Q's Keokuk & Western branch, circa 1938
<http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com>


Re: wood vs styrene (was a very short intro)

David Smith <dsmith@...>
 

So, I'm his older brother and rarely miss the opportunity to put my
little brother in his place, but I definitely have to give him this one.
I've got the advantage of having actually seen Bruce's wood flatcar
decks and it's about as realistic an effect as I have even seen on a
model.

I think wood grain is a red herring here. Wood grain is not
scale-independent, unlike rock textures (for which real rock molds
provide an incredible match to full-scale outcrop texture). What I
believe makes wood on a model so realistic is that wood can be stained
instead of painted and the slight translucency of the stained wood gives
the best match for the slight translucency of the real thing. Painted
styrene makes a fine match for painted wood, because the surface
reflectivity and translucency that you are modeling is that of paint,
but for modeling unpainted wood, what I have seen of Bruce's models
makes me a believer in unpainted wood.

Dave Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Smith
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:07 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: wood vs styrene (was a very short intro)


On Thu, March 16, 2006 2:55 pm, timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

Ah, so it begins! :-) Bring it on!

Do you really think someone comes along and scrubs down the
decks of flatcars? They are so filthy that the dirt fills all the
small
grainy scatches. Sure, you can still get big gouges and broken
boards, but that's easy to simulate in styrene or resin. I can send
you photos of flatcar decks where you can't even see the separation
between the planks!
Tim,

Actually Tim, I agree.<G> In truth, we shouldn't try to advocate "one
size fits all" for flat car decks. My point was that that in your
example
the orientation of the boards and their treatment is very differnent
between flats and box cars. As for the lack of separation between
boards,
that's precisely the effect that REAL wood gives <G>. I also don't see
gross grain and the joints on my decks are tight, as they should be.

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL




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Re: Digest Number 3040

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

It's widely known that the fire was most likely set by PC employees as a way of taking the EL out of the mix.

You have to look at these things from more than ONE point of view.
=============================

Schuyler, that is absolutely false. What you say was not "widely known". It was an accusation made mainly by railfans and politicians who wanted to believe rumors of that sort. I was actively involved with eastern railroads at the time, and I can tell you that it was not generally believed.

It wasn't necessary to close the bridge to take EL out of the mix, they could do that with lousy service on the route.

I think, as suggested by another list member, that you do owe and apology for spreading malicious and slanderous gossip.





Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


traffic to New England via Selkirk

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

From: Tim Gilbert
Subject: Re: Freight through Penn Station

PC's decision to route all through traffic to New England via Selkirk
instead of Maybrook/Poughkeepsie and floats across the Hudson added days to the routing to Southern New England from points in the south.
==============================

Tim, that's not really true. What added days to the move was the general decline of PC's freight operations discipline, which affected the whole railroad, not just Selkirk.

For any traffic from New Jersey and south, through North Bergen, up the west shore to Selkirk and to Cedar Hill via Springfield was the better route. There was no good access to the Poughkeepsie bridge from north Jersey and no reason to provide the EL with a good service route that would compete with the water level route.

Selkirk had the capacity, and in normal times that would have been a good route. PC's service difficulties affected all of its routes and any route via the Poughkeepsie bridge would have deteriorated also.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: Southern Car & Foundry Tank Cars

jerryglow2
 

It's strange: a search with spaces between the words did not find it
but run the words together, like a URL and it shows up as:
http://southerncarandfoundry.com/

Jerry Glow


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

How do we access the SC&F website? A search for Southern Car &
Foundry
or SC&F didn't get me anywhere.
Gene Green


Re: Southern Car & Foundry Tank Cars

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

I, too, saw that notice, and since I have a personal interest in at
least one of those cars, I e-mailed Job Cagle of SC&F to ask him.
Here
is his reply:

"No, the tank cars are not ready. And I do not know why that was
printed. I did send an email to Bill S. @ RMC telling him that are
new
web site is up and that we had two new On3 projects that are
available,
but nothing on the HO tank cars. "

Regards, Spen Kellogg
How do we access the SC&F website? A search for Southern Car & Foundry
or SC&F didn't get me anywhere.
Gene Green


Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Then I took
some .002 shim stock, CA'd it to the rail,<
I'll bet the CA was thicker than the .002 shim <VVBG>!


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Southern Car & Foundry Tank Cars

Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Ted Culotta wrote:

On Mar 18, 2006, at 10:16 AM, lnbill wrote:



I was surprized to see in the latest RMC in the new product section
that SC&F had released thier tank car kits and to check thier website
for details. I did check and there was nothing regarding the tank cars.
Can anyone clarify what might be going on and when we can realistically
expect these models? I did see the photoetch parts that are being used
to create the patterns at Naperville, and they were stunning.

Bill:

No doubt Bill Schaumburg took the preliminary flier at Cocoa Beach and
"announced" the project on behalf of SC&F.

I, too, saw that notice, and since I have a personal interest in at
least one of those cars, I e-mailed Job Cagle of SC&F to ask him. Here
is his reply:

"No, the tank cars are not ready. And I do not know why that was
printed. I did send an email to Bill S. @ RMC telling him that are new
web site is up and that we had two new On3 projects that are available,
but nothing on the HO tank cars. "

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Re: FGE Decals

Richard Townsend
 

A while ago (a couple of years ago) I put together a package of materials relating to the BREX/FGEX/WFEX font and sent it (unsolicited) to Ben Coifmann at Railfonts. They thanked me, but that was last I heard of it. Maybe some requests would get the font produced.

--
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:

Scott Pitzer wrote:
Just curious-- is the type style correctly called "Octic" or "Optic"? �
IIRC, Clover House has this "FGE-looking" style in alphabets labled
"Octic" which kinda makes sense to me, as the basic letter "O" has 8
sides... but someone else has used the name "Optic."
� � �As usually the case, Mr. Clover is correct. The type face is
indeed called "Octic," for the simple reason that letters are fairly
square with corners cut off to make octagons. It's a classic metal
typeface, but does not match the FGE lettering too well.

Tony Thompson � � � � � � Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 � � � � www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:

Actually, Reboxx had done people like myself, who insist on filling
our frogs to make them flange bearing, a favor.<
Code 110 has a flange depth of .025 and code 88 has a flange
depth of
.023. I'm not sure 2 thousands in depth matters much.
That's what I said to Mike Brock a couple of years ago. Then I took
some .002 shim stock, CA'd it to the rail, and ran a train over it. It
matters in that you can see the cars (steam era freight cars even)
bobble as they pass over it.


R1 is .002
difference and _might_ matter. R2 and R3 are .003 different and _might_
matter.
I wonder what the other dimensions for .088 wheels, from the
different
manufactures, are?
Considering that the NMRA never honored us with dimensions to the
centers of radii R 1, 2, and 3, the dimensions actually used are
likely all over the map. But in reality, as long as the tip of the
flange isn't in line with the back of the wheel and the intersection
of the flange and tread has a generous fillet, it likely matters very
little. The flange depth is the easiest dimension to measure, anyway.
Mike the diameter over the flange, subtract the diameter of the tread,
and divide by two. That's the flange depth.

Dennis


Re: 2006 St. Louis RPM Meet Announcement

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 17, 2006, at 6:57 PM, John Golden wrote:

2006 ST. LOUIS RAILROAD PROTOTYPE MODELER’S MEET

The THIRD ANNUAL St. Louis RPM Meet will be held on
Friday, Aug 25th -and- Saturday, August 26th at the
Gateway Convention Center, One Gateway Center,
Collinsville, IL 62234. Hours: 9 AM to 9 PM both days.
Collinsville is 12 miles east of metro St. Louis on
I-55/70.

The heart of this event is your models! Bring your
models, finished or unfinished, for display. All
scales, gauges and skill levels are welcome; attendees
are encouraged to bring locomotives, rolling stock,
structures and any other models pertaining to
prototype railroading. We were jam-packed in 2005, and
have doubled the space and to over 10,000 sq. ft. for
2006. There will be no contests or awards. Our purpose
is to share information, present your best modeling
techniques, meet your fellow area modelers and
historians.

In addition to model displays, presentations by
nationally-recognized modelers and historians are
scheduled. An operating FreeMo layout will be on
display. Historical Societies and select local vendors
will also be in attendance. A pre-RPM social/operating
session is planned.
I'm looking forward to this meet, as it's apparent that John and his
co-conspirators have expanded it into a major event.

However, I'm uncomfortable about being described as "America's leading
freight car historian," especially on a program that includes the likes
of Ed Hawkins, Ted Culotta and now (perhaps) Ben Hom. Could you word
the promotional rhetoric a bit less extravagantly, John?

Richard Hendrickson


Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Actually, Reboxx had done people like myself, who insist on filling
our frogs to make them flange bearing, a favor.<
Code 110 has a flange depth of .025 and code 88 has a flange depth of
.023. I'm not sure 2 thousands in depth matters much. R1 is .002
difference and _might_ matter. R2 and R3 are .003 different and _might_
matter.
I wonder what the other dimensions for .088 wheels, from the different
manufactures, are?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: FGE Decals

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Scott Pitzer wrote:
Just curious-- is the type style correctly called "Octic" or "Optic"? IIRC, Clover House has this "FGE-looking" style in alphabets labled "Octic" which kinda makes sense to me, as the basic letter "O" has 8 sides... but someone else has used the name "Optic."
As usually the case, Mr. Clover is correct. The type face is indeed called "Octic," for the simple reason that letters are fairly square with corners cut off to make octagons. It's a classic metal typeface, but does not match the FGE lettering too well.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



> There are HO wheelsets with prototypical width treads but
with > NMRA flanges -- NWSL sells them and calls them
Proto:HO. They > will run on good NMRA standard trackwork,
most of the time.
>
> Tim O'Connor

Actually, Dennis, you're not quite there, either. RP-25 is a funny
standard in that it specifies
proportions between elements of the wheel's profile at the tread.
That was the intention of the standard, to define a wheel profile that
could be used in any existing scale, and future scales not yet thought
of. The modeler was expected to select the "Code" size that fulfilled
the requirements of standard S-3 for his chosen scale.


. Now, I know that REBOXX, and IM, wheels are .088 width, but are
NOT RP-25 wheels, as the flanges
are pretty much the full depth of a Kadee wheel. Therefore the
proportions are off from RP-25. I
was pretty disappointed when I discovered this, but I do believe
also that this id one of the
reasons that the REBOXX wheels operate very well
Qualify that last statement by adding, "on HO scale track built to
NMRA S-3.2 Standrads."

Actually, Reboxx had done people like myself, who insist on filling
our frogs to make them flange bearing, a favor. Otherwise the slightly
deeper flanges on Code 110 wheels on things I choose not to modify
(like brass steam) would bump on the bottom of the flangeways.

As to the width of the flange, it makes not one iota of difference,
unless you are building track to some dimensions other than NMRA
S-3.2. Even the "Finescale Options" in S-3.1 call for a .040" wide
minimum flangeway, more than enough for these wheels.

The reason the width of the flange makes no difference is because it's
not the dimension that prevents wheels from dropping in the frog. And
no, Code 110 wheels well never drop in a properly built frog, no
matter how long, or how high a number it is. Neither will prototype
wheels. Here's why.

The basic math is that the width of the wheel must be greater than 2X
the max. flangeway plus the width of the frog point. That's the total
wheel, tread and flange. And yes, I realize that one should trig out
the actual width of the flangeway that diverges at an angle, but the
difference is insignificant. For prototype track the numbers are: 2 X
2" + ½" = 4.5". AAR standard wheels have always been wider than 5 1/8"
(it's changed some over the years) so there is always at least 5/8" of
wheel on the wing rail as the tread comes off the point of the frog.

Now let's look at the NMRA S-3 and S-4 track and wheel relationships.
Remember, RP-25 expects the modeler to select the "Code" size that
satisfies the S-4 dimensions for his scale.

2 X .050 + y = ?

The Y is a problem, nowhere do the NMRA standards or RP's specify the
maximum allowable frog point, but one can see that so long as it is
less than .010, a Code 110 wheel can't drop. Likewise, using the "HO
Fine" dimensions from recently approved S-3.1: 2 X .040 + y =?; so
long as the frog point is kept sharper than .008", Code 88 wheels
won't drop. This is why Code 88 wheels will run on "hand laid track
built to high standards" as the articles always say; people tend to
hold the flangeways smaller than the MAX and file their frogs to a
sharp point. If anyone is having a problem with wheels dropping in
high number frogs, it's because the point of their frogs isn't sharp
enough. Just for grins I measured some commercial track components I have:

Micro Engineering .045 flangeways with a .010 frog point = .100
Atlas Code 83 .050 flangeways with a .020 frog point = .120
Shinohara (Walthers) .050 flangeways with a .025 frog point =.125

Only the ME track is actually dimensioned correctly to work with Code
110 wheels, and since the flangeways are only .026 deep, those Reboxx
narrow wheels with the big flanges will sail right through without
dropping. The others are only barely adequate for Code 110 wheels; the
only reason they don't drop is the reason Doc Denny cites; the weight
of the car keeps the rigid trucks level, and this flies the wheel over
the gap. It works, according to Doc, but it's poor engineering, and it
won't do much good for single axle pilot trucks or four wheel bobbler
cabooses at the ends of trains of freight era freight cars.


Dennis

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