Date   

Re: NP flat kit

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

sorry!
www.northernspecificmodels.com
joe binish


Running boards for Ann Arbor 1400-1409 PS-1 boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

Yesterday I was looking at an equipment diagram for Ann Arbor 40ft PS-
1 boxcars, series 1400-1409. The diagram did not list the type of
running boards, but did list the brake step as being US Gypsum
pattern. The PS-1 production list on the Steam Era Freight cars site
did not list the type of running boards either. Does anyone know for
certain if these cars had US Gypsum running boards? If not, is it a
safe bet to use the type of brake step as an indicator?

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: NP flat kit

Tom Palmer
 

Brian,
Try this- http://www.northernspecificmodels.com/ - the stock car is nice.
Best regards,
Tom Palmer
Stafford, (no city taxes) Texas
77477
Modeling the Katy in 1952 in Texas of course.

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Paul Ehni
To: STMFC List
Sent: 3/22/2006 8:10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NP flat kit


Website?
--

Brian Ehni


From: joe binish <joebinish@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:56:19 -0600
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] NP flat kit

Fellow freight car nuts,
I receeived my NP 52' flat kit in the mail from Northern Specific models
today. Really nice, enough that I am putting off working on other stuff
that would earn fame and fortune to put it together! I hope to get it done
for an op session this weekend, albeit empty(the lumber load will have to
wait!)I have no connection with Northern Specific Models, just a happy
customer!
Joe Binish




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Re: % private owner tank cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Tim
You are becoming a "Chubbist" with your one in twenty statement -
actually what you mean that one in 20 freight cars on line nationally
were tank cars
( I was eliminating coal hoppers and coal gons -- I figure that accounts
for a sizable % of the total. )

So what's wrong with Chubb? He developed the C-MRI, the bleeding edge
of digital train control when most folks were challenged wiring up Atlas
snap switches. And AFAIK, he actually built a couple of major layouts.
Sad to say, most of the historians aren't interested in that aspect of
the hobby. And so my message was addressed to newbie layout builders,
who should be apprised what a morass they may be getting into with
faithful-to-the-last-drop prototype model builders... or historians. :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Linde Box Car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Wednesday, March 22, 2006, at 03:07 PM, John Teeple wrote:

I am in the process of adding details to a Branchline Linde box car. I
have carved the ends to accept the access door which is fairly obvious
in the pictures I have. What is not so obvious is the arrangement of
the roof hatches and the running boards. Did the running board cover
the hatches? Were the running boards hinged in some way to allow access
to the hatches? Did the hatches open while leaving the running boards
in place? The artical in RMJ from 1993 (I think) does not address the
access to the roof hatches during the running board era. I hope someone
in this group has some informtion about this particular car.
John,
The roof hatches were under the running boards. To open each hatch, the
running board section directly over the hatch required removal. There
were no hinges. Drawings of cars built by AC&F are available at the
Museum of Transportation.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: NP flat kit

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Website?
--

Brian Ehni

From: joe binish <joebinish@...>
Reply-To: <STMFC@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:56:19 -0600
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] NP flat kit

Fellow freight car nuts,
I receeived my NP 52' flat kit in the mail from Northern Specific models
today. Really nice, enough that I am putting off working on other stuff
that would earn fame and fortune to put it together! I hope to get it done
for an op session this weekend, albeit empty(the lumber load will have to
wait!)I have no connection with Northern Specific Models, just a happy
customer!
Joe Binish


Intermountain gondola grabs and weathering

Dean Payne <deanpayne@...>
 

I have an Intermountain Hocking Valley gondola that I assembled a few
years ago, but had some trouble with the grabs on the side that
attached to the wood side as well as the plastic. How does one attach
a plastic grab to wood? I think I tried ACC, and it didn't work real
well. I intend to revisit the issue, and hope that someone may have
some input. (Yes, I know the HV was gone before the timeframe of SOME
people on this group, but I model the 30's in Ohio, and an HV gon could
still be around.)
I figure these cars would get somewhat beat up, but I haven't weathered
the car yet. I guess an alcohol/ink or alcohol/shoe polish would work
better than any water-based weathering. Correct? The wood is thinner
than resin, or even most plastic. I might finally be able to have a
properly beat-up gon. I'm surprised that no one has made a beat-up
steel gon in resin, or plastic, or brass. Nothing too obvious, just a
general bending out of the sides, with general denting. Probably
impossible with a one-piece body, but maybe do-able with a flat kit.
My luck, it would probably be a 50's prototype!

Dean Payne


Re: Freight cars in New England

armprem
 

Thanks Ted and Marty.Must order your latest too Ted.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Culotta" <tculotta@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight cars in New England


On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:53 PM, A. Premo wrote:

Marty,What is the source of these DVDs?Armand Premo
Armand:
A&R Productions at www.classicrailroadvideos.com. I'll vouch for the CV stuff too, as well as others, including the NH DVD.
Regards,
Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: % private owner tank cars

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

timboconnor@... wrote:

From: Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>

Among the 111,183 privately owned tank cars, GATC owned 48,134
(30.5% of
the 158 thousand total) under its GATX, TCX and other reporting marks;
UTLX was second with 42,121 (26.6%) - these two firms owned 57.1% of
all
tank cars in the US.
=======================================================

Or a more concise way of saying to modelers is: Unless you model the
N&W or one of the other coal-intensive roads, about 5% (1 in 20) of all
the cars on your layout should be either GATC or UTLX tank cars.
Tim

You are becoming a "Chubbist" with your one in twenty statement - actually what you mean that one in 20 freight cars on line nationally were tank cars, and about 60% of those tank cars should be owned by GATC or UTLX.

I don't buy that your one in twenty cars will be tank cars nor that the six out of ten tank cars will be owned by GATC or UTLX maxims can be applied across the board.

Because of tank cars being either owned by shippers (or consignees) or leased by them, tank cars were usually tethered to the lessee or shipper/owner. When empty, the leash was pulled so the cars came back home. A good percentage of the tank cars were either owned or leased by oil companies. These companies had primarily regional markets - for national distribution, pipelines, barges or ocean shipping was used. Therefore, the radius from which these petroleum tank cars operated was limited.

UTLX leased to oil companies until the mid-1950's. Their prime lessees were the old Standard Oil Companies. Jersey Standard, Sohio and SoCal used UTLX exclusively while Socony & Standard of Indiana bought companies who had their own tank cars which they kept out from UTLX's wing.

GATX's business was more diverse than UTLX. Besides oil companies (they bought Texaco's fleet in 1935), their lessees ranged from Proctor & Gamble, meat packers - in 1949, they leased two cars to the town of Minburn Iowa water company to haul water from the Des Moines River to Minburn for a couple of months.

What must be done is to ID more of the customers of private tank car lines. I am just skeptical of using GATC and UTLX as "generic" tank cars.

But I agree with you completely upon the lack of GATC and UTLX tank car models - not enough diverse pretty logos to attract the toy train crowd I suppose.

Tim Gilbert


NP flat kit

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Fellow freight car nuts,
I receeived my NP 52' flat kit in the mail from Northern Specific models
today. Really nice, enough that I am putting off working on other stuff
that would earn fame and fortune to put it together! I hope to get it done
for an op session this weekend, albeit empty(the lumber load will have to
wait!)I have no connection with Northern Specific Models, just a happy
customer!
Joe Binish


Re: % private owner tank cars

Tim O'Connor
 

From: Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>

Among the 111,183 privately owned tank cars, GATC owned 48,134 (30.5% of
the 158 thousand total) under its GATX, TCX and other reporting marks;
UTLX was second with 42,121 (26.6%) - these two firms owned 57.1% of all
tank cars in the US.
=======================================================

Or a more concise way of saying to modelers is: Unless you model the
N&W or one of the other coal-intensive roads, about 5% (1 in 20) of all
the cars on your layout should be either GATC or UTLX tank cars.

Now here's a fun newbie test: List all of the accurate models of GATC
or UTLX tank cars in HO scale (not brass imports or resin kits) for steam
era modelers.

(...... Jeopardy music playing .....)

Time's up! You guessed: none? THAT'S RIGHT! What do we have for
our modeling contestant tonight? Wow! An annual trip to Naperville
(no expenses paid) and you get to scratchbuild your entire roster of
General American tank cars! (You can buy some UT kits in resin.)

You do get the satisfaction of being a steam era modeler. For people
who model the 1980's to the present, the percentage of scratchbuilt
tank cars goes from 5% to about 20% of the entire roster.

Tim O'Connor


Old Tank Cars Never Die - ACFX 13525

George Gounley <gounleys@...>
 

Shawn Bekert asked, " Related STMFC question: Would the 40-year rule apply from the
original built-date of a tank car if it had been rebuilt, or would the rule get waived?"

The age of the tank is irrelevant in applying age-of-car rules, so rebuilt status can be achieved without working on the tank at all. In fact, a 40 or 50 year old tank can be placed on a brand new through sill underframe and the car, so far as the interchange rules are concerned, is brand new. Some alloy tanks are extremely expensive and not cost effective to scrap, provided the tank can keep passing the tests and the quantity of product the tank can hold is still efficient to ship.

Add the following to stock car loads that have been sighted: barrel staves, riprap.

George Gounley
gounleys@...


Re: Freight cars in New England

cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
 

Armand,

Ooops, I meant to include the link to A&R -- thanks Ted.

BTW for Ted's reference one of them (volume 3??) includes a bonus of a cab ride in a CN
diesel and a bunch of stuff shot in Wilimantic.

Marty McGuirk

--- In STMFC@..., Ted Culotta <tculotta@...> wrote:


On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:53 PM, A. Premo wrote:

Marty,What is the source of these DVDs?Armand Premo
Armand:

A&R Productions at www.classicrailroadvideos.com. I'll vouch for the
CV stuff too, as well as others, including the NH DVD.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Another question from the newbie...

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

RichBeau wrote:

You'll know you've truly become a freight car
fanatic when someone shows you a great photo
of a locomotive, and you start looking at the
cars in the yard behind it <VBG>!!
This is exactly where I'm at! I must be in trouble. My other told me
not to hang 'round with the wrong crowd. <LOL>

I have the Robert Willoughby Jones Boston & Maine book. I keep trying
to see the logo and serial number (?) of the cars tagging along
behind. I figured that was the best place to start - model those
specific cars that I had photo graphic proof that they were here.
Rich,

What year and what area of New England are you modeling? There is no sense in modeling a car series which either had not been built or retired in the year in which you are modeling.

From a practical point of view, you can be sure that almost every significant boxcar series (of over 500 cars) appeared in New England in the year you are modeling providing that they were listed in a contemporary ORER. You can be less sure if the roster total was less than 500, but the criterion here would not be "guilty without a doubt," but more reasonable than not. You will not be far off if you use cars from Ted Cullota's ESSENTIAL FREIGHT CAR series providing the boxcar series had not been retired in the year in which you model.

And then there is the issue about the paint scheme of the boxcar series for the year in which you are modeling.

Ask yourself why did the photographer pull the trigger? When shooting a freight car, he did want to waste film on the mundane. Instead, he shot the exotic which grabbed his eye. I don't think you want to have a railroad full of freight cars which were exotic exceptions - focus in on the mundane. (Another criticism of Maywald's work.)

I believe there is a tape of a New England RR with an L&N center drop bottom gondola. While I cannot dispute that the car was in New England at a certain point of time at a specific location, I would consider it a rarity because coal mines served by the L&N in Kentucky were not generally sources of coal in New England. Indeed, it probably got to New England with a load which was in conflict with Car Service Rule C-411 which mandated empty coal cars of the C&O, L&N, N&W and VGN be returned to their owners without reloading.

While Car Service Rules were largely ignored, this one appears to have been obeyed because it was simple and direct. Most of the other rules were abstract - for instance, Rule #1, "Home cars shall be used for the movement of traffic beyond the limits of the home road when the use of other suitable cars under these rules is practical." What was a suitable foreign car empty and how close it it was to the shipper provided some wiggle room and use of judgment.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Re: Freight cars in New England

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:53 PM, A. Premo wrote:

Marty,What is the source of these DVDs?Armand Premo
Armand:

A&R Productions at www.classicrailroadvideos.com. I'll vouch for the CV stuff too, as well as others, including the NH DVD.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@...
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Alternate Stock Car Loads - was Another question from the newbie...

cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
 

Mike,

Bagged coal was also carried in stockcars on backhaul or during seasonal lulls. I believe some
railroad stockcars (Santa Fe? for one) were equipped with floor gates (like those in some
gons) for carrying commodities like coal and coke.

Marty McGuirk


Re: Freight cars in New England

armprem
 

Marty,What is the source of these DVDs?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "cvsne" <mjmcguirk@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight cars in New England


Specifically for New England cars the three or four tapes (I believe they are now available in
DVD format) in the "Central Vermont Railway in Steam" includes lots of neat shots showing
the whole train -- I've garnered a lot of projects from those tapes.

Marty McGuirk

In STMFC@..., "Ron Morse" <ronstrainshop@...> wrote:

I have been following this a little but have not seen any one mention
all the great vintage videos that show cars in passing trains and
yards of the many roads that provide cars for those trains. They are a
good source for freight train consist as well as books and magazines.
Ron Morse
NYC/C&O O scale: modeling,somewhat, Southern Michigan in Springfield,MO






Yahoo! Groups Links








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Re: Another question from the newbie...

cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "RichBeau" <RichBeau@...> wrote:

This is exactly where I'm at! I must be in trouble. My other told me
not to hang 'round with the wrong crowd. <LOL>
Welcome to the nut house . . . most of us on this list have been trading e-mails, good -
natured ribbing (which some misinterpret as insults) -- and best of all information -- for
going on a decade + now . . .

Wow, Richard and Tony are getting old . . .

Oh, and there's always room for one more nut . . .



I have the Robert Willoughby Jones Boston & Maine book.
Which one? There are two B&M Books, as well as a book on Vermont railroads called
"Green Mountain Rails" -- all are well worth the price.

I keep trying
to see the logo and serial number (?) of the cars tagging along
behind. I figured that was the best place to start - model those
specific cars that I had photo graphic proof that they were here.
I tried that with Central Vermont trains, and got a lot of potential projects -- including the
long elusive B&A State of Maine car . . . from photo studies. The problem with the photo
analysis of course, is that you're usually looking at the cars behind the engine or in front
of the van. Since trains were blocked you'll start to notice a remarkable similarity among
the cars in the same train on different days or seasons. It doesn't make it a BAD idea to
study the pics, just something you need to keep in mind.

I concluded my "picture" study of CV trains years ago -- in the interim I latched onto a
large number of CV Form 852's (essentially conductor's wheel reports) that included
reporting marks and car numbers -- all for a one week period in late 1953. Those have
given me enough projects to last three lifetimes.



Thanks Richard for the critque of the Classic Freight Cars books and
mentioning that they are a bit suspect (Garth Groff also wrote of
these problems in a private email). Your list is most helpful and
gives me some good directions to look.
Richard's list is excellent, and are really an "essential" library for the freight car modeler/
historian. I'll add the Morning Sun color books are worth consideration. You'll want to
certainly add "Color Guide to Northern New England Freight and Passenger Equipment" by
Dave Sweetland to your bookshelf. It covers B&M, CV, B&A, Rutland, CP(IofM), and MEC
equipment -- most of which is from the steam era (A LOT of the Morning Sun rolling stock
guides show steam era cars in later schemes -- Dave Sweetland was one of those who
took color photos of cars in the 1950s . . .)

Another excellent book for pictures of steam era cars in their natural habitat is Central
Vermont Railway in Color (I know some dedicated Western road modelers added this one
to their library based on the freight car pics alone. It shows lots of pictures of steam
engines -- with a bunch of the cars behind them quite visible.

There are several B&M "Trackside" Books which are good -- but I've stopped buying them
because they all seemed to develop a "sameness" -- a bunch of pictures of North Station.
And I simply don't need to spend the money or shelf space on that. As a B&M fan, YMMMV,
however.

And, although not the subject of this list -- when you've had your fill of freight cars be
sure to get a copy of "Passenger Trains of Northern New England."


Bruce & Tim the overviews are great stuff! Thank you. I have been
looking at the various documents in the files area so with your most
recent 20,000-foot view and Tim Gilbert's comments (plus Tim's very
good synopsis in the files area) I at least have a much better grasp
of reality (As if I ever had one, as the opening of this psoting
atests <g>).
If you want something -- anything -- reduced to numbers and analyzed, Tim's your man.
<g> -- Seriously, he's been a big help to me, and many others, over the years. As a B&M
fan, you're doubly lucky since Tim is rumored to have a "minor" interest in the Minuteman
Route as well . . .
Hope this lengthy post is helpful in some small way, and again, welcome -- there's always
room for one more nut . . .

Marty McGuirk


Re: % private owner tank cars

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:


On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:36 PM, ed_mines wrote:
Group, what % of private owner tank cars would you estimate in
the '40s? Shipper marked cars owned by the leasing companies? Some of
these leased cars alomsot look like billboards.
Ed,

Tim Gilbert provided the following information back in 2001.

On December 31, 1942 the ownership of US tank cars was:
Total Railroad-Owned 9,163
Total Privately Owned 140,971
Total "American" Owned 149,426

I'm not sure what percentage of the private cars were "plain jane" and what were more decorated.
Bruce,

Tank Car ownership was provided for the first time in the 1954 Blue Book. The roster totals can be broken down into the following categories:

Total US Tank Cars 158,112 100.0%
Railroad-Owned 6,949 4.4%
Privately Owned 151,183 95.6%
Private Car Lines 111,615 70.6%
Shipper-Owned 31,246 19.8%
Unknown 8,322 5.3%

Among the 111,183 privately owned tank cars, GATC owned 48,134 (30.5% of the 158 thousand total) under its GATX, TCX and other reporting marks; UTLX was second with 42,121 (26.6%) - these two firms owned 57.1% of all tank cars in the US. Shippers Tank Line was a distant third with 12,051 (7.6%).

The only UTLX tank cars having shipper's logos were the few Skelgas cars - otherwise plain black with yellow or gold lettering. GATC had a more "logo'd" fleet than UTLX.

The largest shipper-owned fleets were Sinclair (4,611 cars - 2.9% of the national fleet) and Warren Petroleum (4,180 or 2.6% of the national fleet). In the late 1950's, UTLX bought the Sinclair fleet.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert


Re: Freight cars in New England

cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
 

Specifically for New England cars the three or four tapes (I believe they are now available in
DVD format) in the "Central Vermont Railway in Steam" includes lots of neat shots showing
the whole train -- I've garnered a lot of projects from those tapes.

Marty McGuirk

In STMFC@..., "Ron Morse" <ronstrainshop@...> wrote:


I have been following this a little but have not seen any one mention
all the great vintage videos that show cars in passing trains and
yards of the many roads that provide cars for those trains. They are a
good source for freight train consist as well as books and magazines.
Ron Morse
NYC/C&O O scale: modeling,somewhat, Southern Michigan in Springfield,MO

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