Date   

Re: Athearn Gondola News

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 24, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

This from the latest edition of "Athearn News". The second run of
65' mill gondolas is coming; note the Southern Pacific version in
the lower right corner. I trust they're working from photographs...

http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/032106/65mill_2_032106.jpg

They're also releasing the "retooled" ex-MDC 40 gondola:

http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/032106/40_gondola_032106.jpg

If I remember rightly from past threads, this car is fairly close to the
prototype for the C&O cars with rounded "heap shields".
Once again, Athearn's sales guys are giving us, in each case, a couple of relatively accurate models and a bunch of bogus models. These decisions should NOT be attributed to Athearn's R&D staff, who do know better but have to give the sales dept. what it wants.

Only the C&NW and SP mill gons are prototypical. GN had some similar cars but they were all welded. The others are entirely fictional.

The same is true of the 40' gons, where the C&O version with arched ends and the DM&IR models are plausible but the rest are the products of the sales department's overheated imagination.

At least we're getting at least a couple of prototypical models in each production run, which is better than zero for six.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NP flat decals and others

mjmcguirk@...
 

Ted,

Would you be interested in pursuing a set of accurate Central Vermont decals -- I've never been 100% satisfied with the lettering that is available. Since the Central Vermont is, obviously, the best railroad <g> it deserves better.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll pull together some information.

Marty


Athearn Gondola News

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

This from the latest edition of "Athearn News". The second run of
65' mill gondolas is coming; note the Southern Pacific version in
the lower right corner. I trust they're working from photographs...

http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/032106/65mill_2_032106.jpg

They're also releasing the "retooled" ex-MDC 40 gondola:

http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/032106/40_gondola_032106.jpg

If I remember rightly from past threads, this car is fairly close to the
prototype for the C&O cars with rounded "heap shields".

Shawn Beckert


Re: Enough about the New Kadee car

Brian Termunde
 

But what happens if the Kadee car turns out to be a nonexistent car (for this list, IOW, post 1960), then you are all out of bounds! <G>

Take Care!

Brian R. Termunde
(Who Models in Normal Scale, and therefore imune to this speculation! <VBG>)
West Jordan, UT
"Ship and Travel the Grand Canyon Line!"

Grand Canyon Railway
Utah District


Re: Linde Box Car

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Garth Groff <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Ed,

It is my understanding that as the gasses warmed and expanded during
transit, pressure valves allowed a small amount to escape. This went
out
through the roof vents, and maybe to a lesser extent through the
small
side vents. I don't think any of the Linde boxcars were
refrigerated, at
least I've never heard of it. The cars I examined certainly didn't
have
diesel engines like refrigerators.
Then maybe the vents are similar to pop valves that open when the
pressure inside reaches a certain level. I don't think shippers want a
permanently open vent on top of a box car since rain can blow in.

Ed


NP flat decals and others

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

I just uploaded the new Decals page on the Speedwitch site. Click on the Decals link from the home page (www.speedwitch.com) Among other things, you can now order the NP flat car decals, New York Central System box cars (plus one Westerfield stock car), NH 70-ton AAR flat car, SP B-50-25 box car (decals ONLY right now with the conversion kits coming VERY soon), and the CofGa gon decals (the artwork for these was created by Allen Tuten of the CofGa HS and they are phenomenal - a great improvement over what is in the Sunshine kit). The 65'6" mill gon decals for the Athearn kit will be in my hands in about 1 week.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: NP flat kit

SD9E@...
 

Can some one provide contact information to enable getting in touch with
Northern Specific? Thanks, Jeff Pape


RPM Great Valley Malvern PA Meet

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi All,

I am checked in waiting for the show to start. Off to Strasburg for the
afternoon. I will see some of you tonight.


Thank You,
Bill Lane
Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957
See my finished models at:
http://www.lanestrains.com
Over 100 new photos recently added
Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 & G26 http://www.pennsysmodels.com
ALL of the production X29 have arrived as of 6-30-05
Replacement PRR decals arrived 10-5-05
***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
http://www.prrths.com


Re: Enough about the New Kadee car

mrslandser
 

Umlatt - If you go to your charactor map, you will be able to add the ü,ä, etc. Essentially, hold down the ALT key, type on the numerical pad 0252 and you have the ü....

Jack


Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:

Tom is right. And also, how did Dave get that umlaut into his
email? These are burning questions!

Tim O'Connor



Dave Smith wrote:

C'mon folks. It's Schrödinger's freight car. When Kadee finally
opens the box, either it will be that car you have always wanted,
or it won't.
Well, yes, but "Is she pregnant?" and "Will the biopsy reveal a
malignancy?" are also situations where knowing vs. not knowing will
not change reality. But you should neither deny nor dismiss the very
real emotions that come into play when you're between not knowing and
knowing. In the Kadee case, it's anticipation - and, since some list
members clearly know the answer, the desire to shake a clue loose.
Kadee has a presence on this list, and all the "I hope it's a..."
speculation may well plant seeds for future projects. After all, here
is where the freight car expertise is!

Tom Madden


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Re: Alternate Stock Car Loads

Pieter Roos
 

I haven't had a chance to look up Richard Hendrickson's article on
these cars, but IIRC they were converted from boxcars, and probably
retained the lumber door for that earlier form.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Larry Jackman wrote:
You will probably find that is a drover door for a man to get into
the car if he needed to.
In the NP photos I have, it looks like about a two-foot square
door. It could be a feed door, but most drovers would have had a
tight
squeeze to get through it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Malvern roommate

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

I find myself roommateless this weekend for the meet in Malvern. if you want to share a room, please give me a call at 650-787-1912.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Re: Enough about the New Kadee car

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom is right. And also, how did Dave get that umlaut into his
email? These are burning questions!

Tim O'Connor

Dave Smith wrote:

C'mon folks. It's Schrödinger's freight car. When Kadee finally
opens the box, either it will be that car you have always wanted,
or it won't.
Well, yes, but "Is she pregnant?" and "Will the biopsy reveal a
malignancy?" are also situations where knowing vs. not knowing will
not change reality. But you should neither deny nor dismiss the very
real emotions that come into play when you're between not knowing and
knowing. In the Kadee case, it's anticipation - and, since some list
members clearly know the answer, the desire to shake a clue loose.
Kadee has a presence on this list, and all the "I hope it's a..."
speculation may well plant seeds for future projects. After all, here
is where the freight car expertise is!

Tom Madden


Re: Mystery Transfer Caboose

jerryglow2
 

A pic of KCT 512 appears on p60 of Cabins, Crummies and Hacks" vol
4 by John Henderson.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, William Keene <wakeene@...> wrote:

Jace, Jerry, and group,

I agree that this sounds like the KCT 513. Yes, it was produced by
Liberty Models. The memory is a bit gray on this, but I believe
the kit
was available in both HO and O scales. I have an unbuilt HO kit.
Also
can claim time restoring the 12-inches to the foot (FS-scale?)
version.

-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: Boraxo Covered Hopper

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

John,

Please, I didn't quite say that. Based on the limited evidence I was able to uncover about the company in a very short search, I would say that the most logical use was Boron to Wilmington. I would be happy to have this proven otherwise if someone has firm documentary evidence. It is quite possible the Boraxo cars went a lot of other places. After all, people in Indiana and Ohio do get their hands dirty just like the rest of us, don't they? ;-)

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

John Teeple wrote:

So Garth - running this Borax car outside the state of California, say on a model of the NKP in Indiana or Ohio, would not be prototypical. I may have to use some modeler's license or relegate it to a display shelf. Thanks for the response. John


Re: Linde Box Car

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Ed,

It is my understanding that as the gasses warmed and expanded during transit, pressure valves allowed a small amount to escape. This went out through the roof vents, and maybe to a lesser extent through the small side vents. I don't think any of the Linde boxcars were refrigerated, at least I've never heard of it. The cars I examined certainly didn't have diesel engines like refrigerators.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

ed_mines wrote:


If the car contains refrigeration the vents would allow hot air to escape.

Ed




Re: Upon Further Review...Re: Re: .088" wheels

Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

Well, that, and you know where to get them cheaply! :-)
Yeh, well......... No comment

Tim "I'm thinking of going into the model train bizness" O'Connor
Don't do it Tim. If you really want to throw some of your money away just send it to me, who is in the railroad business..... :>)

Bill


Re: Enough about the New Kadee car

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Dave Smith wrote:

C'mon folks. It's Schrödinger's freight car. When Kadee finally
opens the box, either it will be that car you have always wanted,
or it won't.
Well, yes, but "Is she pregnant?" and "Will the biopsy reveal a
malignancy?" are also situations where knowing vs. not knowing will
not change reality. But you should neither deny nor dismiss the very
real emotions that come into play when you're between not knowing and
knowing. In the Kadee case, it's anticipation - and, since some list
members clearly know the answer, the desire to shake a clue loose.
Kadee has a presence on this list, and all the "I hope it's a..."
speculation may well plant seeds for future projects. After all, here
is where the freight car expertise is!

Tom Madden


Re: Enough about the New Kadee car

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Dave Smith writes:


"C'mon folks. It's Schr�dinger's freight car. When Kadee finally opens
the box, either it will be that car you have always wanted, or it won't.
Filling up the list with idle speculation isn't helping any of us get
more prototype models onto our rails."

Perhaps not, but only the head judge of the STMFC [ that's me I'm afraid ] or his assistant Jeff Aley can terminate a thread. Frankly I am rather curious about the car and intend to speculate some about it.

"Dave Smith, for whom this relativistic probability distribution of a
freight car model carries no interest at all, no matter what it is, and
who thinks some of you HO-scale wishers and hopers should come over to
the small side for a while and develop a deeper appreciation for what
you already have."

A valid point. We HO folks do have it made. Or do we? I have wondered before what us greedy modelers would do if the number of models available reached...say...90% of those ever made. Why, we'd buy the things. Then we'd store them. I am currently working rather strenuously to put in two more staging tracks because of such inherent greed.

As far as THE car goes, several speculate that the AAR Alternate standard will finally make an appearance. I dunno. There doesn't seem to be THAT many well known RRs owning such cars given Kadee's past history of having a large number of potential RR names. I mean...C&O, Clinchfield, Erie, NKP, NP, P&WV, WLE and a small number of ATSF don't seem like a very large population for Kadee.

Mike Brock










Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Upon Further Review...Re: Re: .088" wheels

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Dennis Storzek writes:

You've taken the long way around the barn to come to an erroneous
conclusion.
Well...perhaps. After all, I got it wrong in the first place. As to the barn...well...I'm the only one that has the keys to the barn door.<g>. And, I might note...criticism regarding another member's message [ including the length ] is entirely against the rules. Disagreement with the content is entirely within the rules.

Some of the things missing from your analysis of the situation are:

The effects of the width or thickness of the frog point where it ends;
Not at all. My calculations are based on exactly accurate gage lines. Real frogs, as I'm sure you know, don't extend to the exact point of termination of the two rails but were cut off at a point where the frog has a 1/2" spread...at least back in 1955. This was due to the pounding the actual point received and the material making up the very narrow point couldn't survive the damage. The distances on the heel side of the frog in my analyzes are to the theoretical point but the distance from the theoretical point to the 1/2" point is very small. The thickness of the actual frog point from its theoretical end is easy enough to determine...its the same math as used to determine the frog number. The distance to the 1/2" thick point differs depending on the angle of the frog. The distance for a number 10 frog is 0.057". Since the bottom of the wheel should be .3" on the heel side of a number 10 frog theoretical point when the bottom of the tread intersects the wing rail, this is still comfortably 0.24" on the heel side of the frog's 1/2" point.

You cannot rely on the flange of the wheel at the opposite end of the axle
to position the wheel over the frog for maximum support, to do so you would
have to build all turnouts to minimum gauge, and as someone who runs
4-12-2's, I'm sure you understand why this won't work.
I'm really not certain what you refer to. If you mean that the wheel passing through the frog would not be exactly "snug" to the rail of the frog...thus meaning that the distance of the tread toward the wing rail would be slightly less than the .080"...I would agree on a wheel traveling in a straight direction but not one moving through the curve of a diverging track.

Therefore, if all .088 wide wheels are aurally .088 wide, they all will
behave the same irregardless of the width and shape of the flange.
Note that I said:

"Using wheels with flanges other than Code 110 on track with flangeways of
.050" introduces other issues which are, fortunately for all concerned,
beyond the scope of this message."

So...such configurations have nothing to do with my message.

Given the fact that the gauge face of each
closure rail must be in line with the gauge faces of the frog point, and
the guard face of the wing rails are always offset a specific distance from
the frog (which they are, it's only in model railroading that we think we
should vary this distance) the bend that defines the closure rail from the
wing rail will always be in the same place, and does not need to be
dimensioned.
If by "the same place" you mean at the same point relative to the theoretical frog point, I entirely disagree. Let me try to demonstrate...difficult without a drawing. As you note, the closure rails must be in line with the rails of the frog. Let's refer to the closure rail of a diverging track and the rail in line being the diverging rail part of the frog. Let's say the angle of the frog is 20�.The angle between the closure rail and wing rail is 180�-20�=160�. OK...now let's change the angle of the frog...to, say, 10�. The angle between the diverging closure rail and wing rail is now 170�. The diverging closure rail no longer is in line with the diverging frog rail. To put them in line, the point of "bend" must be moved closer to the frog point. It is easy to see this in a mathematical sense. If the angle of the frog is 90�, the distance to the closure rail/wing rail bend point is the distance of the flangeway 0.050". As the angle decreases, the distance increases. Thus, at 1�, the distance is 4.70". The same relationship exists if the 1/2" point is chosen. As the angle of the frog decreases, the distance from the point of the frog to the closure rail/wing rail "bend" increases. If this is not true, we are not using the same terminology for closure and wing rail bend point or the trig functions have changed recently.

"This is
shown on drawings as the "1/2 inch point", and its distance from the
theoretical point is always dimensioned, as this is what locates the frog
relative to the surveyor's stakes."

This might explain our differing views. I'm not surveying nor building a real turnout but, rather, a model of one.

" All the other dimensions on a prototype
turnout drawing are given relative to the 1/2 inch point, because this can
be reliably determined in the field, whereas the theoretical point cannot."

Since I have never surveyed for a real turnout, I suppose I should not argue too strongly about this, but I'm pretty certain that I could find the point where two lines cross knowing the angle. And I can certainly do it on a piece of homosote.

The problem with NMRA turnout dimensions is that there is no standard for
the thickness of the point where it ends;

It would be useful to know it but it's easy enough to figure out...just as is the closure/wing rail bend point. For a number 10 frog:
The Sine of angle X = 0.5"/Y where Y = the distance to the 1/2" point. The sine 5.72� = 0.1, Y = 0.5"/0.1 = 5" which agrees precisely with the AREA table. 5" in HO scale is 0.057 real inches.

"Given that manufacturers of commercial track are faced with the same flow properties of the material they make their frogs from,
whether Zamac, Nickle Silver, or plastic, you can see why higher number
frogs will have more of a problem; they have longer, thinner points that
stop supporting the wheel further from the theoretical point when blunted."

On a number 8 frog, the correct distance from theoretical point of the frog to the 1/2" real frog point is, as you note, 4" [ HO ] or 0.046 real inches. However, the bottom of the tread should intersect the wing rail at 0.64" from the closure/wing rail point which is still 0.235" from the loss of support by the frog.

Back to our real world examples, there is no way that any .088 wheel will
not try to drop on track built to NMRA S-3.2, even at the theoretical point
the total of the two .050" flangeways

But if you recall from my message, I am only referencing a code 88 tread attached to a code 110 flange and I have tested such wheels. At least the wheels I tested APPEARED to be of such configuration and, so, that is all that my comments refer to. If my measurements were incorrect [ what? ] and the wheels were actually Code 88, the entire analysis has no value...except to help those with insomnia, provide some data on the closure/wing rail bend point and, perhaps, to raise Dennis's blood pressure a bit....which might be good.

Mike Brock


Re: MKT Triple Offset-side Hoppers?

Tom Palmer
 

Jace,
The Katy had three different groups of triple hoppers. All the cars had
vertical exterior posts. None were AAR triple offsets. Underneath ACF
builders photos on the Fallen Flag website there are two builders shots of
the 40101-40300 cars built in 1948. The 35001-35500 cars were built in 1949
at Mt. Vernon and the 35501-36000 cars came from Mt. Vernon in 1953. The
ACF cars are the only cars with peaked ends. They were used primarily for
coal service for the mines in Oklahoma.
Best regards,
Tom Palmer
Stafford (no city taxes), Texas
Modeling the Katy in Texas in 1952

[Original Message]
From: Justin Kahn <harumd@hotmail.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 3/23/2006 1:03:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] MKT Triple Offset-side Hoppers?

Sorry to trouble the list, but my ORER's are all in Fairbanks: I know MKT
had quad offsets (thanks to RPC), but did they have any of the AAR triple
offsets?

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.

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