Bill Welch Test
Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Bill, if you get this, you are alive and well on the STMFC. Let me know.
To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to STMFC@egroups.com If you do not wish to belong to STMFC, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com You may also visit the eGroups web site to modify your subscriptions: http://www.egroups.com/mygroups Mike Brock
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Re: Ancient Tank Cars
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
There is also the Precision Scale model of a Van Dyke, which hasShawn, the Precision Scale model is accurate for prototypes that lasted into the 1960's. Richard Hendrickson wrote an article on modeling them, including modifications to Bowser (?) caboose trucks that have the correct wheel base. Precision Scale makes, I think, two different models -- regular and "deluxe". The more expensive one is better/sturdier because it has metal parts where needed. There's a 1969 photo of UTLX #57801, a Van Dyke tank car, in the Classic Freight Cars Volume 2. It appears to be riding on normal ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks. Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net> Marlborough, Massachusetts
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Re: USRA composite gons
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
At 10:07 PM 2/1/01 -0600, you wrote:
Just doing some tests to see if my Youngstown containers would fit in theAl... I wonder if your load will fit Sunshine's Greenville car (same prototype as the Proto2000). It came with thin-wall sides. I can test fit it for you, if you're interested. ;o) Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net> Marlborough, Massachusetts
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USRA composite gons
Al & Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
Just doing some tests to see if my Youngstown containers would fit in the
Intermountain and Lifelike kits - I plan to issue a 10 container load for Mop. Turns out the Lifelike car is about 6" narrower than prototype and won't fit the containers. Intermountain is about 2" oversize and will (and would have if the correct width). - Al Westerfield Westerfield
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Re: Copeland
Earl Tuson
From: "Dave & Libby Nelson" <muskoka@ix.netcom.com>Dave and others, I have a copy of Ron Glas's 1990 compilation of available Copeland resources located at NWU. I'd be happy to quote from it, but it would better to find Ron and get permission for me to distibute it in its entirety. Earl Tuson __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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Re: Ancient Tank Cars
Bill Kelly
Tim,
Look again, 57801 is not a Van Dyke car. I don't think that they lasted past 1953. There are only five standard gauge cars listed in the 7-53 ORER. Bill Kelly Tim wrote: snippage<________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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B&O milk cars
John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
M.D. McCarter has a couple of photos of B&O milk cars from the series
824-850, which were standard ice bunker reefers. He took the photos in '48, but the latest equipment register I have for passenger cars is '43. Does anyone know how late they survived? - John
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Re: Ancient Tank Cars
Shawn Beckert
Richard and Gang,
Ok, so I looked up Precision Scale's Van Dyke tank at the Walthers website. It's in stock for $18 or so. Odd looking little monster. How long did these last in interchange, the 1940's? Shawn Beckert
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Re: Ratios of Home Road vs. Foreign Roads
Dana and Larry Kline <klinelarrydanajon@...>
I agree with Richard Hendrickson that photographic or other documentation is
the best approach to determining the ratio of home road and foreign road cars. The photos and videos available to me show that boxcars are, by far, the most common car type in WM merchandise trains, and that foreign road cars are much more common than home road cars. It is interesting to compare the data from photos and videos with Copeland Report data. On the Western Maryland all merchandise traffic to and from the west was interchanged at Connellsville, PA. The WM 1952 Copeland Report gives the following numbers of cars interchanged at Connellsville. Eastbound P&LE 29,228 P&WV 28,783 B&O 3,310 PRR 2,577 Westbound P&LE 34,583 P&WV 44,287 B&O 1,039 PRR 293 Total Eastbound+Westbound 144,100 The WM had 2,284 boxcars as of January 1953. Assuming a typical value of one car turn per month, the total number of WM boxcar shipments in 1952 was about 27,000. Only a fraction of these shipments would have been interchanged at Connellsville. Thus, home road cars can account for only a small fraction of the cars interchanged at Connellsville and one would expect that most boxcars in WM merchandise trains would be foreign road cars, as suggested by photos and videos. Larry Kline
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H.H. Copeland Reports
Dana and Larry Kline <klinelarrydanajon@...>
<Dave Nelson wrote:
Larry, where did you find the H.H. Copeland reports? What year do they cover?> The Guide to RR Historical Resources by Taber lists the Copeland Reports (on interchange and traffic density) holdings at the Baker Library at the Harvard Business School, The Transportation Library at Northwestern Univ., and the St. Louis Mercantile Library. I have used the holdings at Harvard and Northwestern. The Northwestern is much more laid back. They permit copying and don't require permission to publish research results. Harvard will supply copied, at a higher cost and does require permission to publish research results. The holdings at Northwestern cover WM for most years from 1926 to 1956. However, this unusual. For many railroads, there is data for only one or a few years. I didn't make a list of the holdings at Northwestern. The holdings at Harvard are: (RR no of yrs.) Alton 3, AA 2, ATSF 6, ACL 8, B&O 6, BAR 3, B&A 6, B&M 21, CP 2, CGa 2, CRRNJ 5, CV 1, C&O 6, C&EI 14, C&NW 7, CB&Q 14, CGW 5, CI&L 13, MILW 16, RI 26, CCStL 9, C&S 11, D&H 14, DL&W 11, DRGW 30, ERIE 17, FEC 13, GN 5, GTW 1, Gulf Coast 11, GM&O 6, IC 12, IGN 11, KCS 10, LV 1, L&A 1, L&N 4, MEC 21, MC 8, M&StL 2, SOO 39, MKT 16, MP 15, M&O 2, Monon 1, NC&StL 1, NYC 9, NYC&StL 5, NH 2, NYO&W 2, NS 1, NP 6, PRR 4, P&LE 4, RDG 4, Frisco 9, StLSW 3, Seaboard 13, SP 5, SR 13, T&P 9, UP 10, VGN 4, WAB 21, WM 32, Panama Canal 1. Larry Kline
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Re: WM hopper trucks
Dana and Larry Kline <klinelarrydanajon@...>
<John Nehrich wrote:
One of our members is assembling a bunch of the Stewart channel side hoppers, and wanted to know what trucks to use. I found one picture where I think the car had Andrews, but it isn't clear, and one photo does not a roster make. Any information? - John> All of the 1947 and later photos I have of WM channel side hoppers show cast steel (Bettendorf) trucks of various types. Some photos show two different truck types on one car. Some of the 1916-17 Pullman hoppers that were converted to channel side cars in 1927-32 were built with Bettendorf T-section trucks and kept them after rebuilding. The latest photo I have of a car with Bettendorf T-section trucks is dated 1942. I also have one 1940 photo of a car with one cast steel truck and one Bettendorf T-section truck. Larry Kline
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Re: Ancient Tank Cars
Richard Hendrickson
List,No, it's the UTLX class X design which followed the VanDyke cars (class V) after the Master Car Builders' Assn. ruled that tank cars had to have center sills, rather than transmitting pulling and buffing forces through the tank itself. The tanks on the class X cars were essentially the same as on the Van Dykes (and BTW both class X and class V cars wre built in 6K, 8K, and 10K versions) but they had substantial center sills instead of the bolsters and draft gear boxes being riveted directly to the tank via an unusually heavy bottom sheet. 2) Does the MDC "Old Timer" tank car have potentialThe MDC tank isn't bad as a representation of the UTL 6K gal. tanks. The problem is the underframe, which is a grossly oversize atrocity. 3) Failing that, has this type of car ever beenNo, only the VanDyke tanks have been done in brass (and mostly because the narrow gauge guys wanted them, as some were converted to NG in the 1930s). The same is true of PSC's very nice plastic kit for the VanDyke cars, originally offered only in NG but now available as a standard gauge model as well. There's been talk of making patterns for resin underframes to go under the PSC or MDC tanks, but so far nothing has come of it. There's also been talk of doing the class X cars in brass, but talk, as we know, is cheap. There would certainly be a good market for such models, as the cars went everywhere in the US and Canada and lasted, in some cases, through the 1960s (I have a photo of one coupled to a high-cube auto parts car!). Shawn Beckert Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520
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Re: Ancient Tank Cars
John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
Shawn - The Van Dyke cars had no underframe.
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The biggest problem with the MDC kit is that in order to get in enough weight in the underframe, they made it about twice as tall, so the tank sits way too high. The metal is hard to work with, so replacing the underframe is about the only way to go. There is also the Precision Scale model of a Van Dyke, which has slightly different dimensions, and I would think could be mounted on a new underframe. - John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@disney.com> To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:47 PM Subject: [STMFC] Ancient Tank Cars List,
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Ancient Tank Cars
Shawn Beckert
List,
I have questions to ask about a certain MDC tank car kit, though I've a good idea what the answer will be. I just received several M.D. McCarter prints of UTLX tank cars that appear to have been built in the 'teens. The shots were taken in Pensacola, FL about 1945. Short, with tanks riding high on very sturdy underframes, with the brake wheel mounted facing to the side at one corner. There are ladders going up the sideframe, about four rungs each. 1) Is this what you'd call a "Van Dyke" design? 2) Does the MDC "Old Timer" tank car have potential for modeling these cars, or is it the usual MDC fantasy, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever? 3) Failing that, has this type of car ever been produced in brass, and by who? Shawn Beckert
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Re: WM hopper trucks
Richard Hendrickson
One of our members is assembling a bunch of the Stewart channel sideI have only one photo of a WM channel side car and it dates from ca. 1961, after Andrews trucks were banned in interchange, so it may have had Andrews trucks earlier in life. The trucks in the photo are AAR self-aligning spring-plankless with Barber lateral motion bolsters. Several mfrs. make representations of AAR self-aligning spring-plankless trucks in HO scal, the best probably being InterMountain's, but none of them have Barber later motion devices - though that's a rather subtle detail in 1:87 scale. With regard to the trucks on these cars earlier in their history, you might try Larry Kline, who models WM (though in O scale): <klinelarrydanajon@worldnet.att.net> Richard H. Hendrickson Ashland, Oregon 97520
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Re: Ratios of Home Vs Foreign
Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
Yeah, that's my work alright.
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The data here that I think is an eye opener is the sum of cells J12 and J21 (totals about 25%), which is the percentage of ALL away from home boxcars that are marked either NYC or PRR. To back up that claim, I just ran some queries against the SRR conductors Train books I recorded -- mainline running east out of Asheville, NC.: I have 1117 non-home road boxcars listed with 212 of them having PRR or NYC marks -- about 20% of the foreign road boxcars. As for your RA data Jeff, I'm not quite sure of the point your trying to make, but if it's in context of the spreadsheet, the RA data confirms what is the spreadsheet after one facters in open top cars.
-----Original Message-----
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Society of Freight Car Historians
ibs4421@...
Steam Listers,
I have in my possession a copy of "Freight Car Journal No. 63: Nashville, Chattanooga & St. Louis Railway". It's a great reference work, a decent substitute for the lack of the horizontal format books we've discussed earlier. The copyright is listed as "1994 Society of Freight Car Historians, ISSN 0742-9355". Can anyone tell me where I can get other volumes like this for other roads? Warren Dickinson Ride The Battlefield Route! Ride The Dixie Line! NC&StL Rwy.
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Re: Ratios of Home Vs Foreign
Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
I just uploaded "Home vs Foreign.xls", which is an Excel spreadsheet that
I received (IIRC) from Dave Nelson. It's in the files area at www.yahoogroups.com. BTW, the data I have from Railway Age circa 1950 shows ~40% of the cars on UP property were UP. Regards, -Jeff On Jan 31, 12:10am, Mike Brock wrote: Subject: [STMFC] Ratios of Home Vs Foreignknow I have it somewhere. Anyhow, I believe that for UP, for example, onlyabout 30% of the frt cars on UP property at one time were UP cars...about likeand C&O were in the 60% range.-- Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com Graphics Components Division Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA (916) 356-3533
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Re: WM hopper trucks
byronrose@...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:19:59 -0500 "John Nehrich" <nehrij@rpi.edu>
writes: One of our members is assembling a bunch of the Stewart channel sideJohn, One thing to keep in mind is that the Stewart kit is a poor representation of only the cars that WM rebuilt in 1952. The hoppers, end sills, ladders and other detail needs correcting. They really cannot pass for their older channel sides, unless one is modeling way, way off scale. FWIW, the couple of those cars still in service in Harrisburg are rolling on an AAR type cast sideframe truck, formerly known in the hobby as Bettendorf (ph?), a little town in Iowa. BSRose ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Re: freight car paint schemes
John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
I've bitten the bullet and STARTED writing up a synopsis of freight car
paint schemes at: http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Freight-Car-Paint-Sch emes.html I have a LOT to go, but if you have a favorite road and people (specifically manufacturers) keep getting it wrong, like a scheme only used on a particular class of cars, let me know. If you send it to me in the following format: <li> 19xx - Yadda, yadda, yahoo.<P> it will get added sooner. But even more important than what I've left out is what I got wrong. So nit pick away. - John
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