Date   

Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Isn't Gridley where the first McDonald's opened? You could deliver
frozen fries by the carload...

At 11:47 AM 4/22/2006, you wrote:
Hi Group,

Nice car.

But now I have to come up with a reason that one would have been found
in Gridley, Kansas, a most definitely not a major metro main line
place.

Cheers,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hi Group,

Nice car.

But now I have to come up with a reason that one would have been found
in Gridley, Kansas, a most definitely not a major metro main line
place.

Cheers,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Apr 21, 2006, at 4:35 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Apr 21, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

> ...word has it that
> the Rr-30 class - all 100 of them - were assigned to frozen food
> service, and thus didn't stray too far offline. Is this true?
Because
> if it is, none but the hardcore Santa Fe aficionados will need more
> Than one or two.

The Rr-30s were, indeed, designed and built for frozen food service,
though (as Tim Gilbert has pointed out) specific service assignments
for reefers were invalidated during WW II and were not re-established
until 1948.  In any case, frozen food loaded onto these and other
heavily insulated 50' SFRD reefers (e.g. classes Rr-21, Rr-37 and
Rr-42) was shipped to many locations across the country, so it's not
at
all the case that the Rr-30s seldom went off-line.  Modelers of almost
any main line RR serving major metro areas can justify having at least
one or two of these cars, though you are right that only the hardcore
Santa Fe guys need more than that.

Richard Hendrickson



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Re: Dominon/Fowler Car Roof Walks

jim peters <jimpeters90@...>
 

Good morning Eric,

I think, my friend you have missed the question. This
has to be my fault for allowing the large time lapse
between Bill's original question and my comments.

Bill asked with reference to Ted's article was the 24"
wide roof walk a Canadian standard? The picture on
page 97 (still refering to Ted's article) shows the
roof walk with 4 - 6" wide boards. My response
stated; from the Nov '85 Mainline Modeler the drawing
shows the roof walk with 3 - 8" wide boards - But I
questioned the accuracy of the drawing. I continued,
that I've seen 3 photographs all dated in the mid
1960's with 18" wide roof walks.

The question remains - Was the 24" wide roof walk a
Canadian standard? If so, when did it change?

My regards,

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, B.C.


--- Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...> wrote:

jim peters wrote:

Good morning - I'm also planing to built a Kaslo
Resin kit of the CN 36'
Dominion/Fowler car. I've been watching the
messages daily hoping to see an
answer to your question of April 11th with regards
to the width of the roof
walks.
<snip>
==========================================


Jim,

You didn't note the latest issue of Railroad Model
Craftsman (May 2006). Ted
Culotta covers these cars in his ongoing Essential
Freight Cars series.
While there are no scale drawing, there are several
prototype photos. One
image clearly shows four running board strips. If
you know how wide the roof
is, you may be able to make a decent estimate on the
running board width.
Ted covers some upgrades he did to a Westerfield
kit, but I'm sure several
points could be applied to the Kaslo kit.

Best of luck!

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.





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PFE Question

jim peters <jimpeters90@...>
 

A question for the PFE guys,

I have seen the odd picture showing the car numbers
stencilled on the roof. Admittedly these were older
photos from the 1920's and 30's. I'm in the process
of applying the decals to my latest project, a PFE
R-40-23.

My question, was this practise of putting the car
number on the roof continued into the 1950's? If yes,
what size and where were they located?

Many thanks,

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, B.C.

P.S. See you at the PNW-RPM Meet in Bellingham on May 20th.

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Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Since I want a Ship and Travel scheme. I get an undecorated model and hope
Ted makes the decals :-)

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson writes:

All of the Santa Fe Rr-30 class refrigerator cars were delivered with
50' early straight line maps (i.e., without the word "Ship") and "Super
Chief" slogans. Some were repainted before mid-1947 with other slogans
and those cars had the later 50' straight line maps which included the
word "Ship."
The key question seems to be with regard to the term..."some". IOW, if all of the Rr-30 cars were not repainted in '47, how long might they have remained in the as built scheme? No doubt a very tough question to answer unless one had photos of many of the cars over several yrs. Nevertheless, given that we in 1953/4 soon will have access only to the as built scheme...periods in ATSF...what do we do?

Mike Brock


Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

ljack70117@...
 

see below
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...



On Apr 21, 2006, at 8:25 PM, Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton wrote:

~ One of those cars was SFRD #37328. I
~don't believe bananas were frozen.

Just the opposite -
Not in the US of A. All bananas were green and shipped cold between 45 and 50 degrees. I worked in a produce house and it was my job to unload the cars of bananas when they arrived. When we opened the doors they were cold. We had three banana handling rooms. One was empty when a car arrived. It was set at 45 degrees. I unloaded the car into that room. All very green Bananas. The next room was the ripening room and it was set at 70 degrees. The green bananas in it would ripen there. The third room was the selling room. The bananas were ripe and the orders were filled from this room. When this room was empty it became the holding room. I would unload the next car load into it set at 45 degrees. The 2nd room became the selling room and they had ripened. The first room that had the last car load in it became the ripening room. THis goes on and on and on. Bananas do not arrive at the port ripen. They would turn black and rot if keep warm in one days time as you describe. If a banana is green and held at 45 degrees it will not turn black or rot. I did this in the early 50s Well in the time range of this list.
To test this go to your produce house and buy a green banana. One that has just arrived and is at 45 degrees in the holding room. You must keep it at 45 degrees as you take it home and then put it in to the fridge. It will stay green and not turn black. But if you let it start to warm as you take it home it will go on to ripen and turn black.
Oh yes even in the winter time the cars would arrive at 45 to 50 degrees.

they need to be kept warm otherwise they go black and
horrible. Banana vans in Britain were steam heated to keep them nice and
warm in transit.

Aidrian


Re: Jones & Laughlin tank car

bobbypitts44 <bobbypitts44@...>
 

Sounds good to me. All the girls look good at closing time. Never
been there, but have a good friend that told me it's true. Sorry
Mike for the drift, but I couldn't resist. Bobby Pitts

Not at all, Bobby, but as anybody will tell you, beauty is in the
eye of the beholder.

There's some line here about beauty, midnight in a bar, and beer,
but I'm not going there . . .

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of bobbypitts44
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 10:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Jones & Laughlin tank car

Excuse me, but because one person thinks the car is "dumb
looking"
does that mean that I'm stupid because I happen to like the
car alot? Bobby Pitts

On Thu, April 20, 2006 9:28 pm, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
On Behalf Of Thomas M. Olsen
The same goes for freight cars in
various scales: the more obscure the car, the more
models of it are
built.
Witness the new version of the Jones & Laughlin tank car.
WHY?
A dumb
looking car that never went
anywhere.
Schuyler,

On top of that, the version produced by F&C appears to mimic the
mistake
made by the previous NWSL brass J&L 20,000 gallon tanks... that
silver
with black lettering paint job. More than likely, it is
a "builder's
paint job" done to highlight the details. The few pictures of
operational
J&L tanks in this series appear to show black cars with white
lettering
<G>. A paint job that make a lot more sense for its lading of
coal
tar.
I don't know if the model comes with those decals as well, but
so
far I
have seen no evidence of it.

BTW, while uncommon outside of the J&L plants,these cars did
actually
traverse mainline rails, although probably only PRR and only
very
specific
lines.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL






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Re: Jones & Laughlin tank car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Not at all, Bobby, but as anybody will tell you, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

There's some line here about beauty, midnight in a bar, and beer, but I'm not going there . . .

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
Behalf Of bobbypitts44
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 10:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Jones & Laughlin tank car

Excuse me, but because one person thinks the car is "dumb looking"
does that mean that I'm stupid because I happen to like the
car alot? Bobby Pitts

On Thu, April 20, 2006 9:28 pm, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
On Behalf Of Thomas M. Olsen
The same goes for freight cars in
various scales: the more obscure the car, the more
models of it are
built.
Witness the new version of the Jones & Laughlin tank car. WHY?
A dumb
looking car that never went
anywhere.
Schuyler,

On top of that, the version produced by F&C appears to mimic the
mistake
made by the previous NWSL brass J&L 20,000 gallon tanks... that
silver
with black lettering paint job. More than likely, it is
a "builder's
paint job" done to highlight the details. The few pictures of
operational
J&L tanks in this series appear to show black cars with white
lettering
<G>. A paint job that make a lot more sense for its lading of coal
tar.
I don't know if the model comes with those decals as well, but so
far I
have seen no evidence of it.

BTW, while uncommon outside of the J&L plants,these cars did
actually
traverse mainline rails, although probably only PRR and only very
specific
lines.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL






Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

~ One of those cars was SFRD #37328. I
~don't believe bananas were frozen.

Just the opposite - they need to be kept warm otherwise they go black and
horrible. Banana vans in Britain were steam heated to keep them nice and
warm in transit.

Aidrian

--
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Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/320 - Release Date: 4/20/2006


Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 21, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

...word has it that
the Rr-30 class - all 100 of them - were assigned to frozen food
service, and thus didn't stray too far offline. Is this true? Because
if it is, none but the hardcore Santa Fe aficionados will need more
Than one or two.
The Rr-30s were, indeed, designed and built for frozen food service, though (as Tim Gilbert has pointed out) specific service assignments for reefers were invalidated during WW II and were not re-established until 1948. In any case, frozen food loaded onto these and other heavily insulated 50' SFRD reefers (e.g. classes Rr-21, Rr-37 and Rr-42) was shipped to many locations across the country, so it's not at all the case that the Rr-30s seldom went off-line. Modelers of almost any main line RR serving major metro areas can justify having at least one or two of these cars, though you are right that only the hardcore Santa Fe guys need more than that.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 1946 Banana Car Block on SOU's Washington Division - was SFRD 50 foot reefer

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

ckeithjordan wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
wrote:

One of the ramification's of this order was the variety of owners
among
the 43 cars carrying bananas northbound from Monroe VA to
Potomac Yard
on the Southern Railway as noted in my first email on the
subject
yesterday, Thursday April 20th. One of those cars was SFRD
#37328. I
don't believe bananas were frozen.
They could have chocolate covered frozen bananas.
Keith,

In 1946?

That 43 car banana block has intrigued me. I believe its a good example of the dispersion of reefers resulting from the WW II Car Service Orders.

SFRD Rr-30 Reefer #37328 was loaded with Bananas northbound on the SOU between Monroe VA and Pot Yard on September 27th, 1946, but, alas, #37328 was not equipped with a Preco Floor circulating device. #37328 was part of a forty three car Banana block consisting of 14 reefers owned by the FGEX/BREX/WFEX group; 11 by PFE; 7 by MDT; 4 by SFRD; 3 by ART; 2 by URTX; one by the NP; and one indecipherable.


The routing from the Gulf of Mexico (either Mobile or New Orleans) to Washington & North was fairly unique. In normal times, the ports of entry for bananas for the northeast were Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Baltimore. But I speculate that there was a shortage of Banana Boats caused by retrofitting into civilian service in September 1946. This shortage shifted the ports of entry for bananas to the northeast to the Gulf Coast because of the shorter trips of the boats from the Banana Republics.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Dominon/Fowler Car Roof Walks

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

jim peters wrote:

Good morning - I'm also planing to built a Kaslo Resin kit of the CN 36'
Dominion/Fowler car. I've been watching the messages daily hoping to see an
answer to your question of April 11th with regards to the width of the roof
walks.
<snip>
==========================================


Jim,

You didn't note the latest issue of Railroad Model Craftsman (May 2006). Ted
Culotta covers these cars in his ongoing Essential Freight Cars series.
While there are no scale drawing, there are several prototype photos. One
image clearly shows four running board strips. If you know how wide the roof
is, you may be able to make a decent estimate on the running board width.
Ted covers some upgrades he did to a Westerfield kit, but I'm sure several
points could be applied to the Kaslo kit.

Best of luck!

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: No GM&O in Westerfield's 1/1940 ORER CD - was Intermountain USRA gondolas

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

.But you could be right that the 213000- series gons are later design.
I don't have any IC records or photos of any of these cars. I have a
1944 photo of GM&O 12333 but I can't look up the dimensions -- my
Westerfield 1940 ORER CD-ROM has no GM&O (???). What's that about?
Tim,

The Gulf, Mobile & Northern (GM&N) merged with the Mobile & Ohio (M&O) in the Third Quarter of 1940; ergo, any "GM&O" ORER data would be shown on the GM&N and M&O pages.

Tim Gilbert


Western Car & Foundry builders photos

Rob Adams
 

Is there a source for prints of Western Car & Foundry builder's photographs? I'd like to obtain a print of the Ann Arbor RR 11000-series double sheathed 40' box car that appeared in the 1919 Car Builder's and was re-printed in one of the Train Shed Cyclopedias. Thanks in advance.

Best regards, Rob

--
Rob Adams
Wellman, IA
steamera@...
Modeling CB&Q, CRI&P and Wabash operations in Keokuk, IA,
the Wabash Bluffs, IL to Keokuk branch, and the CB&Q's Keokuk & Western branch, circa 1938
<http://www.KeokukandWesternRR.com>


Re: black J&L Tank

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

It was Elden Gatwood who pointed out the on-line photo of a black J&L
tank car, on this very list. It is from the P&LE collection at the
Pitt Library. You can view it directly at:
http://tinyurl.com/g8x46

You can zoom in on it and confirm the JLSX reporting marks in WHITE
on a BLACK car <VBG>. The photo is dated 1958, location is the P&LE
at Montour Jct.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
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Re: SFRD 50 foot reefer

Keith Jordan
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
wrote:

One of the ramification's of this order was the variety of owners
among
the 43 cars carrying bananas northbound from Monroe VA to
Potomac Yard
on the Southern Railway as noted in my first email on the
subject
yesterday, Thursday April 20th. One of those cars was SFRD
#37328. I
don't believe bananas were frozen.
They could have chocolate covered frozen bananas.

Keith Jordan


Re: Intermountain USRA gondolas

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Tim,

Check the 1950 ORER for the IC's USRA composite gons:
98000-98986, 92 cars, 4'10" IH
1000-2199, 6000-6099, 1024 cars, 4'10" IH, log service

That's where the gons were going: they were being phased out of gon service
and being added to the pulpwood fleet.

If it will help, I've got a builder's photo of IC 126806, a USRA composite
gon.

And I've TWO of those GM&O 12333 USRA clone gon photos. The wreck sequence
included an end shot. Let me know if you want a copy. Those GM&O gons were
Alton clones; all 100 of the Alton's original USRA gons were off the roster
by 1940. I've also got a shot if an ITC B motor hauling another GM&O USRA
clone, 55673; looks like the GM&O just stuck these cars all over the
numbering scheme.

And BTW: there's no 1940 GM&O listing because the GM&O was formed in 1940,
and your ORER is before then. Check the GM&N and M&O, and later the Alton
listings.

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Intermountain USRA gondolas


Chet

The only problem is that 107000-108499 have 3'5" interior height --
i.e. they are "low sided" gondolas. I don't have any ORER's between
1940 and 1950, but the 1950 shows the 94000- series cars with the
same 3'5" interior height -- not like other USRA gons.

But you could be right that the 213000- series gons are later design.
I don't have any IC records or photos of any of these cars. I have a
1944 photo of GM&O 12333 but I can't look up the dimensions -- my
Westerfield 1940 ORER CD-ROM has no GM&O (???). What's that about?

Tim


From a 1946 Illinois Central equipment book, the only gons listed old
enough to be USRA built (28 years), were the 94000-95492 series which
numbered 1471 cars. The next oldest group of composite gons were 23
years old. The cars show being numbered in the 107000-108499 series
in the Apr 1940 ORER. By 1950, only 54 cars remained. In 1953, the
IC began building/purchasing new steel GS type gons which were placed
in the 94000-95499 number series.

Chet French
Dixon, IL



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Re: Intermountain USRA gondolas

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

Tim,

The equipment book noted that a conversion had been made to the cars
12 years prior to 1946. It did not state what had been done to the
cars, but I am assumimg that the sides had been cut down to 3'-5". I
do not have the information on the USRA composite gons handy, so I
don't recall what the inside height was. I noticed in the IC book
that in 1946 the railroad had 5892 composite solid bottom gons on the
roster, which included 2958 with inside height of 3'-5" or less.

Chet French
Dixon, IL






The only problem is that 107000-108499 have 3'5" interior height --
i.e. they are "low sided" gondolas. I don't have any ORER's between
1940 and 1950, but the 1950 shows the 94000- series cars with the
same 3'5" interior height -- not like other USRA gons.

But you could be right that the 213000- series gons are later
design.
I don't have any IC records or photos of any of these cars. I have a
1944 photo of GM&O 12333 but I can't look up the dimensions -- my
Westerfield 1940 ORER CD-ROM has no GM&O (???). What's that about?

Tim


From a 1946 Illinois Central equipment book, the only gons listed
old
enough to be USRA built (28 years), were the 94000-95492 series
which
numbered 1471 cars. The next oldest group of composite gons were
23
years old. The cars show being numbered in the 107000-108499
series
in the Apr 1940 ORER. By 1950, only 54 cars remained. In 1953,
the
IC began building/purchasing new steel GS type gons which were
placed
in the 94000-95499 number series.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Kraft reefer photo posted

lrkdbn
 

--- In STMFC@..., Garth Groff <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Larry,

If he's interested, I can make him a much sharper print.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

lrkdbn wrote:
Could I get 2 prints? One for me and one I will send to Art Griffin.
I will be glad to reimburse you.
Thank you
Larry King
<lrkdbn@...>

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