Oops. I was not clear. You mentioned 797 cars in 1942, but I show
3000-3899 in 1940, and 10000-11999 in 1942.

At 10:01 PM 1/28/02 -0500, you wrote:

I believe you left out 3000-3899, built in 1940.

Larry Smith wrote

Carl Shaver's book, Freight cars of the C&O August 1, 1937 specifically
states the following: Series 4000-4499 were built with Viking roofs by
General American as was. series 5000-5499. The cars that were built by
Pullman Standard, series 4500-4999 had Murphy roofs. Now here's the
real fly in the ointment. All had dreadnaught ends except for 5400-5499
which had the Deco ends. Cars in the 5250-5499 had Creco doors, while
4000-4999 had Youngstown doors. Cars in the 5000-5249 had Camel doors.
In 1942 the C&O received 797 cars, also of the 37 design with the later
corner design which were Murphy roof and dreadnaught ends. These cars
were equipped with Apex metal roof walks.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts

Incredible coincidence, we lived in Parkchester too.

I'll look for the book.

Thanks
Norm

Norm - I, too lived there and often watched the yards. I grew up in
Parkchester. Just yesterday I purchased one of Bob's Photos new books at
Timonium specifically because it had pictures of the Van Nest shops! The
title is The New Haven Railroad's Electrified Zone, Robert A. Liljestrand,
37 pring St., Ansonia, CT06401. Cost is $15.00, shipping cost unknown. -
Al Westerfield

I believe you left out 3000-3899, built in 1940.

Larry Smith wrote

Carl Shaver's book, Freight cars of the C&O August 1, 1937 specifically
states the following: Series 4000-4499 were built with Viking roofs by
General American as was. series 5000-5499. The cars that were built by
Pullman Standard, series 4500-4999 had Murphy roofs. Now here's the
real fly in the ointment. All had dreadnaught ends except for 5400-5499
which had the Deco ends. Cars in the 5250-5499 had Creco doors, while
4000-4999 had Youngstown doors. Cars in the 5000-5249 had Camel doors.
In 1942 the C&O received 797 cars, also of the 37 design with the later
corner design which were Murphy roof and dreadnaught ends. These cars
were equipped with Apex metal roof walks.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts

Norm,

I believe Van Nest is what the New Haven called its Electric Power Shop.
Are you referring to the Harlem River or Oak Point Yards?

Some views of the Van Nest Shops are in Stauffer/Swanberg's NEW HAVEN
POWER in the electric section.

Tim Gilbert

This is (or was) in the Bronx, along Tremont Avenue.

Norm

Bill,

Don't forget that 15000-15999 had 8 rung ladders too! And they
had either Ajax, Equipco, or Champion brakes. ( 200/200/100 as
the series goes. )

What you are wishing for is a nice spreadsheet. Do you know Excel?

Ed forgot to mention that the NKP 15000 series had square corner ends while
the 16000-17699 had W corner ends. Also, all of the 16000-17699 had Apex
running boards. All of this per NKP Society Magazines.

As side note, I wish their was an easy single reference for which cars had
wood or steel running boards as I am always wondering this as I pick up
these kits.

Bill Darnaby

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts

The book ATLANTIC COAST LINE PASSENGER SERVICE THE POSTWAR YEARS
by Larry Goolsby has a very interesting photo of what appears to
be a DL&W USRA car with the famous slogan. The year is 1951

Are you sure it's USRA? DL&W had other double sheathed box cars,
built in the late 1920's. Some of them got Phoebe Snow paint jobs.
Sunshine makes kits 37.11/12 with Phoebe Snow lettering.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts

When I was a young teenager I lived across the street from the New Haven
Van Nest freight yards. Of course, I didn't have the good sense to know
that a half-century later I'd want to go back and take pictures of the
buildings, cars, etc.

I can get a fair number of pictures of the rolling stock, but I haven't
seen any pictures of the buildings. I remember a huge building which IIRC
was an "engine house" (but not a roundhouse).

Does anyone know of any resource for pictures showing what it looked like
circa 1950?

TIA
Norm

On Jan 28, 6:03pm, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Searching again (was RC + IM kits)
Please, before posting, search for an answer to a direct question in the
freightcars list archive. In the case of the NKP series 17400 cars, you

can

find it in a flash. Go to

http://sunny16.photo.tntech.edu/~richard/Freightcars/archive/search.php3

and search on "1937 NKP 17400" and you'll get your answer.

What List is that? Oh. Never mind...

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

Ed forgot to mention that the NKP 15000 series had square corner ends while
the 16000-17699 had W corner ends. Also, all of the 16000-17699 had Apex
running boards. All of this per NKP Society Magazines.

As side note, I wish their was an easy single reference for which cars had
wood or steel running boards as I am always wondering this as I pick up
these kits.

Bill Darnaby

NKP 15000-15999 had Viking roofs and 16000-17699 had Murphy raised panel
roofs. The 17400-17699 series were built 6-8/1944 by GATC and came with

Apex

Tri-Lik running boards and brake steps, Youngstown doors with Camel

fixtures,

and Ajax hand brakes. Car #17614 was equipped with aluminum doors

furnished

by the Youngstown Steel Door Co. Trucks were AAR double truss.

The data for Southern's 10'-6" IH box cars from series depend on which

series

you want to model, and what period you want to depict. Pullman-Standard

built

1,511 cars (lot no. 5692) including series 21500-22999, circa 4-42. The

other

11 cars were miscellaneous "replacement" cars that were assigned to the
10183-14140 series (10'-0" IH cars). All cars in this series originally

came

with wood running boards. Cars 21500-22799 had Youngstown doors while
22800-22999 had 7-panel Superior doors. 21500-22749 had Universal hand

brakes

(this style hand brake not available in HO scale) and 22750-22999 had

Miner

H/B. A photo of #22782 (from Bob's Photo) circa 3-59 shows the car having
been modified with what I believe to be a Morton running board. I do not

know

when the conversion from wood to Morton running boards occurred (likely
sometime in the 1950s).

Mount Vernon built series 20000-21499, circa 5-42. However, I can't help

with

all the data on these cars. Cars 20823 and 21071 had Youngstown doors.

Both

cars in photos from Richard Burg (circa 1960-1963) had Morton running

boards,

probably replacements like the Pullman-Standard cars received.

Hope this helps.
Ed Hawkins





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Please, before posting, search for an answer to a direct question in the
freightcars list archive. In the case of the NKP series 17400 cars, you can
find it in a flash. Go to

http://sunny16.photo.tntech.edu/~richard/Freightcars/archive/search.php3

and search on "1937 NKP 17400" and you'll get your answer.

I have a question regarding the RC 8015 which is one of the next
kits in my "to build" stack. I know some of the NKP cars had a
Viking roof and I think an Apex running board. What should the kit's
17400 series have? While I'm at it, what running board should the IM
Southern RR modified (10'-6) kit have. Thanks Tim for publishing
this list here and many moons ago on the freight car list. It's been
a big help.

Tim:
I not sure of anything. The photo is blurry. The photographer was
aiming at the locomotive and not the freightcars or passenger equipment. I
can't see a number
clearly. I saw the photo and I thought about Ben's excellant presentation.
It's not
"hard" evidence just vaguely circumstantial.<G>

Richard Stallworth

Ben Hom:
I attended your lecture on USRA DS boxcars at the Cocoa Beach
Prototype Rails conference. I may have misunderstood you, but I
believe you said something about there being no photographic evidence
of DL&W cars using the "Phoebe Snow" slogan. The book ATLANTIC COAST
LINE PASSENGER SERVICE THE POSTWAR YEARS by Larry Goolsby has a very
interesting photo of what appears to be a DL&W USRA car with the
famous slogan. The year is 1951 and the photo shows an ACL mixed
train in Ft.Myers,FL.
The train is made up of the following: GP7#157-A B&O M26(?)-
a car that looks like a USRA car with what appears to be the Phoebe
Snow slogan--an unidetifiable car--a coach--a pullman. The numbers
a fuzzy on the freightcars, so it's hard to tell what they are
precisely. I thought this was interesting.

Richard Stallworth

In a message dated 1/28/02 5:14:30 PM, HAWK0621@aol.com writes:

The data for Southern's 10'-6" IH box cars from series depend on which
series you want to model, and what period you want to depict.

Pullman-Standard

built 1,511 cars (lot no. 5692) including series 21500-22999, circa 4-42. The
other 11 cars were miscellaneous "replacement" cars that were assigned to the
10183-14140 series (10'-0" IH cars). All cars in this series originally
came with wood running boards.

I must follow this up with some "errata" that I misread from the
Pullman-Standard bill of materials. The running boards and brake steps on the
Southern 21500-21999 plus the other 11 misc. numbers originally were Morton.
Thus, they weren't replaced during their service life as I had originally
speculated, but were Morton from the very start. The rest of the data was
correct. I apologize for this error.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

In a message dated 1/28/02 4:00:26 PM, gulley@pasco.com writes:

I have a question regarding the RC 8015 which is one of the next
kits in my "to build" stack. I know some of the NKP cars had a
Viking roof and I think an Apex running board. What should the kit's
17400 series have? While I'm at it, what running board should the IM
Southern RR modified (10'-6) kit have. Thanks Tim for publishing
this list here and many moons ago on the freight car list. It's been
a big help.

NKP 15000-15999 had Viking roofs and 16000-17699 had Murphy raised panel
roofs. The 17400-17699 series were built 6-8/1944 by GATC and came with Apex
Tri-Lik running boards and brake steps, Youngstown doors with Camel fixtures,
and Ajax hand brakes. Car #17614 was equipped with aluminum doors furnished
by the Youngstown Steel Door Co. Trucks were AAR double truss.

The data for Southern's 10'-6" IH box cars from series depend on which series
you want to model, and what period you want to depict. Pullman-Standard built
1,511 cars (lot no. 5692) including series 21500-22999, circa 4-42. The other
11 cars were miscellaneous "replacement" cars that were assigned to the
10183-14140 series (10'-0" IH cars). All cars in this series originally came
with wood running boards. Cars 21500-22799 had Youngstown doors while
22800-22999 had 7-panel Superior doors. 21500-22749 had Universal hand brakes
(this style hand brake not available in HO scale) and 22750-22999 had Miner
H/B. A photo of #22782 (from Bob's Photo) circa 3-59 shows the car having
been modified with what I believe to be a Morton running board. I do not know
when the conversion from wood to Morton running boards occurred (likely
sometime in the 1950s).

Mount Vernon built series 20000-21499, circa 5-42. However, I can't help with
all the data on these cars. Cars 20823 and 21071 had Youngstown doors. Both
cars in photos from Richard Burg (circa 1960-1963) had Morton running boards,
probably replacements like the Pullman-Standard cars received.

Hope this helps.
Ed Hawkins

Tim

Carl Shaver's book, Freight cars of the C&O August 1, 1937 specifically
states the following: Series 4000-4499 were built with Viking roofs by
General American as was. series 5000-5499. The cars that were built by
Pullman Standard, series 4500-4999 had Murphy roofs. Now here's the
real fly in the ointment. All had dreadnaught ends except for 5400-5499
which had the Deco ends. Cars in the 5250-5499 had Creco doors, while
4000-4999 had Youngstown doors. Cars in the 5000-5249 had Camel doors.

In 1942 the C&O received 797 cars, also of the 37 design with the later
corner design which were Murphy roof and dreadnaught ends. These cars
were equipped with Apex metal roof walks.

Hope that adds to your confusion.

Larry Smith

C&O cars were built with both Viking and Murphy roofs. Car 4935 had a Murphy
paneled roof as in the Red Caboose kit. Des Plaines Hobbies had a special
run made and replaced the Murphy roof casting with a Viking roof casting that
they sell seperately.

Larry,

I will add your comment to my database of contradictions! Unless you
have a photo of 4935 or one of the other cars from that order. The Des
Plaines cars represent a different order.

Tim

C&O cars were built with both Viking and Murphy roofs. Car 4935 had a Murphy
paneled roof as in the Red Caboose kit. Des Plaines Hobbies had a special
run made and replaced the Murphy roof casting with a Viking roof casting that
they sell seperately.

Larry Smith .

Tim O'Connor wrote: