Mike makes some good points. One thing worth mentioning is that there are
plenty of photos, still and video, showing what is clearly a grimy car with
pretty clean lettering. I have always assumed this is due to chalking of
the white (usually) lettering. Reproducing this effect requires weathering
before decaling the model (a little harder to do on a prepainted model).
The improving technical qualities of paints must have played a role, too,
as John Nehrich pointed out. After WW II, railroad shops were busy catching
up on repairs to hard-used cars from wartime (and of course scrapping out
the worst and oldest ones), so the 1947-1952 (say) period SHOULD have
perhaps more than usual steam-era clean cars, both new cars and new, better
paint on the repaired or repainted cars.
As I have told some members of this list before, I think the biggest
challenge to modelers is to achieve a VARIETY of weathering levels. I guess
we tend to have a degree of grime which we each accept, and tend to weather
all our models to that approximate level. But as Mike observes, there
should certainly be some quite new and clean cars, and at least a few truly
grimy and almost black cars. That's a range that you rarely see on a layout
tour.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

Transition era is probably just that in terms of weathering also. Steam
was dirty. Diesel was not as dirty (except for Alcos, grin). Cars that
lived their lives behind a steam engine were probably dirtier than those
behind a diesel. Coal burners might have been dirtier than oil burners.
Just guessing, with no real facts to back up this theory.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Mike,

I'll nibble a bit at this one. I too have noticed that a great number of early-mid 50's are cleaner in photos than many models I have seen of them. I have always put this down to the postwar buying boom in new equipment and the reshopping of war-weary cars, but I'm not so sure now. I too spent several days home with a bug last week and had a chance to glance at a few videos. One of them, "PRR Glory III" had some great late 1930's color stuff by John Prophet and several of the cars looked like they were right out of Al Westerfields ads, clean paint and all. One PRR gon jumpls out in my memory, it was even shiny... could PRR cars be shiny? :>)

Maybe we look at the dirty old steam days with jaded eyes and things were not that as bad as we think......

Bill Schneider

In the 1940's and 1950's, canned fish would be shipped from the
cannery in what kind of car - a reefer or insulated boxcar? And
would all seafood products have been shipped the same way?

I'd guess reefers would be preferred for their insulation. And a load
of canned fish would probably max out the car load limit before reaching
the cubic limit. By the mid to late 1950's railroads began buying lots of
50 and then 70 ton insulated box cars, mostly for canned goods and
beer. The new cars also came with new load devices, and later with
cushion underframes.

I recently came across a document of the Port of Los Angeles
Harbor Belt Line, basically "Superintendent Notices" dated
1952. In it they talk about the care needed in spotting cars
for loading at the various canneries in the port area. Very
interesting, but they never mention what sort of cars to spot.

In the 1940's and 1950's, canned fish would be shipped from the
cannery in what kind of car - a reefer or insulated boxcar? And
would all seafood products have been shipped the same way?

Prior to about 1955, the insulated box car was pretty rare, and uniced
reefers were commonly used for products needing temperature protection.
However, many varieties of canned goods were shipped in ordinary box cars.
Some canned fish is cooked as part of the processing, in which case
temperature protection would be less important.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

During my recovery from the flu following Prototype Rails, I took the
opportunity to view a rather extensive number of video tapes of variouis
railroads during the 1950s. I was struck by the number of frt cars that
appeared quite clean looking. Now, given that these cars were being filmed
from distances of at least a hundred feet, the term "clean" is obviously not
meant in a literal sense but more relative. The point is that, in the
majority of cases, the railroad name and logo are clearly seen...not hidden
at all from view by dirt and grime. Yes, there were examples of heavy
weathering, but not in most cases. I was surprised, in fact, at the apparent
lack of grime on hopper cars...in particular, those of the B&O [ seen on a
B&O tape for the curious wondering about Sherman Hill ].

My curiousity whetted, I'm wondering if I was seeing railroads that had
recently purchased fleets of new frt cars. I went back and checked the
Whittacker photo of the NP DS boxcar that Sunshine includes in their resin
kit. This car, showing only very slight weathering, was reweighed in March
of '52 while the photo was taken about a year and a half later during '54.
Other photos I've been checking seem to confirm the tendency to only light
weathering...and in the case of new cars, almost none. OTOH, at the same
time, one does see really grungy looking equipment and sometimes something
covered with spillage rather than weathering effects. These
observations...including a lot of time spent looking at photos in
books...leads me to wonder about just how much weathering and spillage
effects we should strive for? I tend to think that areas of cars near the
track should probably receive their share of grime but I think the
superstructures should, perhaps, be cleaner.

Having said all this, it is also true that paint does fade and weathering
effects do occur. My point is that this period may have seen a significant
number of new cars. And, perhaps, newly refurbished and painted older cars.
I'm also very aware that trains of PFE cars show quite a variety of age and
weathering effects during this time. Perhaps in this case, with PFE cutting
back the washing of cars, older equipment would be pretty discolored. One
thing you don't see much of is deteriating paint with rust showing
through...except on older Pennsy cars.

Comments?

Mike Brock

Trembling with fear, I venture again out upon thin ice...What, me
worry?......and comment that RC #8030 looks OK for ATSF BX-27 except for the
need to do a Duryea underframe. I assume this wouldn't be too difficult to
achieve.

I'm also assuming that Santa Fe put the Scout & Super Chief logos on the
cars. 8030-3I has a Super Chief and 8030-2J has a Scout...both with straight
line map...reweigh dates of 7-45.

Mike Brock

Looking at Tim's list of 1937 AAR cars, I note that RC UP #8040-1,2&3 have ?
indicated. I have 8040-2b and 2c and can tell you it is lettered for a
B-50-27. Regretfully, the model has square corners and the 27 should have
rounded corners. The car would be correct for a B-50-19.

I don't have 8041 so I don't know what kind of corners it has. Did RC make a
round cornered AAR '37 car? If not, these will not be correct for a B-50-27.

Jeff Aley is the resident guru on UP cars and has a data base somewhere.
Jeff, why don't you load it into the STMFC files.

Mike Brock

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:45:40 -0500
From: "Bill Welch" <bwelch@uucf.org>
Subject: timonium report


More new stuff from Bob's. His stuff from Col McCoid has been a great thing for those of interested in southeastern railroading especially. Bob estimates that he has 300 more negatives to finish printing everything once, then he will begin printng the 8x10 glass negative! I nearly fainted when he told me this. Glad I was already sitting down. He has not printed any locomotive stuff yet either. He hopes to have a complete stock of photos from this collection at Naperville next October. Purchased 91 prints.

Glass Negatives!

Does this mean something for us turn of the (last) century models?
Looking forward to seeing them

Howard
Still lost in 1905

List,

I recently came across a document of the Port of Los Angeles
Harbor Belt Line, basically "Superintendent Notices" dated
1952. In it they talk about the care needed in spotting cars
for loading at the various canneries in the port area. Very
interesting, but they never mention what sort of cars to spot.

In the 1940's and 1950's, canned fish would be shipped from the
cannery in what kind of car - a reefer or insulated boxcar? And
would all seafood products have been shipped the same way?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert

In response to the below, I commented on narrow gauge trucks because
someone had wanted to know if they had bolsters the same size as their
standard gauge counterparts. The answer is a strong no, they are scaled
down in all dimensions.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:17:19 -0500
From: "Jon Cagle" <jscagle@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Narrow gauge trucks

David:

Was there a question or thread that I missed regarding the information
that was
posted below?

Thanks.

Jon

"Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net> wrote:

8055-4 Ok P&LE 30535 682-B 1955 Steel Centers

The smallest of nits, Tim: Lot 682-B was P&LE 30000 - 30499,
blt '40 by Pressed Steel Car at McKees Rocks, Pa., while P&LE
30500 - 30999 were Lot 683-B, blt '40 by Pullman-Standard at
Butler, Pa., Lot 5625.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------

David, I only marked the NS with a "?" because I wasn't sure about the
lettering. But I will change it to 'OK' as the car type and number appears
to be correct. Can you check the web site and tell me if the paint scheme
is genuine?

To heck with the website, I've got two of them right here. The paint job
is indeed legit, though there are some small size and placement issues.

David Thompson

FWIW The Bob's Photo book ad, in the back the
December issue of TRP, asks for $2.00 shipping. Bob's
shipped my copy of his milk car book to me via priority
mail.

Mike Carson

David:

Was there a question or thread that I missed regarding the information that was posted below?

Thanks.

Jon

Oops. I was not clear. You mentioned 797 cars in 1942, but I show
3000-3899 in 1940, and 10000-11999 in 1942.

At 10:01 PM 1/28/02 -0500, you wrote:

I believe you left out 3000-3899, built in 1940.

Larry Smith wrote

Carl Shaver's book, Freight cars of the C&O August 1, 1937 specifically
states the following: Series 4000-4499 were built with Viking roofs by
General American as was. series 5000-5499. The cars that were built by
Pullman Standard, series 4500-4999 had Murphy roofs. Now here's the
real fly in the ointment. All had dreadnaught ends except for 5400-5499
which had the Deco ends. Cars in the 5250-5499 had Creco doors, while
4000-4999 had Youngstown doors. Cars in the 5000-5249 had Camel doors.
In 1942 the C&O received 797 cars, also of the 37 design with the later
corner design which were Murphy roof and dreadnaught ends. These cars
were equipped with Apex metal roof walks.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts

Incredible coincidence, we lived in Parkchester too.

I'll look for the book.

Thanks
Norm

Norm - I, too lived there and often watched the yards. I grew up in
Parkchester. Just yesterday I purchased one of Bob's Photos new books at
Timonium specifically because it had pictures of the Van Nest shops! The
title is The New Haven Railroad's Electrified Zone, Robert A. Liljestrand,
37 pring St., Ansonia, CT06401. Cost is $15.00, shipping cost unknown. -
Al Westerfield

I believe you left out 3000-3899, built in 1940.

Larry Smith wrote

Carl Shaver's book, Freight cars of the C&O August 1, 1937 specifically
states the following: Series 4000-4499 were built with Viking roofs by
General American as was. series 5000-5499. The cars that were built by
Pullman Standard, series 4500-4999 had Murphy roofs. Now here's the
real fly in the ointment. All had dreadnaught ends except for 5400-5499
which had the Deco ends. Cars in the 5250-5499 had Creco doors, while
4000-4999 had Youngstown doors. Cars in the 5000-5249 had Camel doors.
In 1942 the C&O received 797 cars, also of the 37 design with the later
corner design which were Murphy roof and dreadnaught ends. These cars
were equipped with Apex metal roof walks.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts

Norm,

I believe Van Nest is what the New Haven called its Electric Power Shop.
Are you referring to the Harlem River or Oak Point Yards?

Some views of the Van Nest Shops are in Stauffer/Swanberg's NEW HAVEN
POWER in the electric section.

Tim Gilbert