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Re: Freight Cars and Fish

thompson@...
 

Would reefers have been used in the winter for protection of
canned goods against freezing?
Sure. Could even use the charcoal heaters if needed.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Weathering...how much?

aidrian.bridgeman-sutton <aidrian.bridgeman-sutton@...>
 

I suspect there's an element of where and when here - there's a colour photo
of a Monon freight train in a recent Mainline Modeler where cars, caboose
and engine are only distinguishable by shape and slight variations in shades
of grey. Similarly I have post war pictures of L&N trains in the same sort
of condition. On the other hand I see black and white pictures of other
roads equipment taken before WW2 where the condition of the lettering and
paint is better than that of most modern equipment - we can't tell the
colour but the lettering is commonly clean(ish) white rather than buried
under grime

Some of this must be due to different conditions before and after the war -
the cost of labour to maintain and clean cars went up terrifically. Other
factors must include the location - cars spending much of their life in the
wide open spaces would tend to get less begrimed than those that spent their
entire lives in coal mining and steel making country, and perhaps the owning
road's policies as to when or whether things got washed.

Aidrian


Re: Freight Cars and Fish

Shawn Beckert
 

Michael Carson asked:

Is the shipment of canned fish seasonal?? If
there were little risk of freezing than almost
any house car would do.
I know zilch about the fishery and canning business,
but I can tell you that it's unlikely to get down
to freezing around Los Angeles Harbor. I think this
might be more a question of where the canned fish
was consigned to. Going north out of the L.A. Basin
in winter would probably warrant a plain boxcar for
most canned goods. But I have a feeling that sending
the same load in the same car across the Arizona desert
in mid-July might not be a good idea. Without any kind
of historical documents to tell me otherwise, I think
I'll play it safe and assign reefers to any shipments
of seafood I might be moving on my Southwest-based R.R.

Shawn Beckert


Re: Weathering...how much?

Kevin Slark <MoffatRoad@...>
 

I believe it may depend on the road, as well. From the
Rio Grande in Color Volumes, almost all of the freight
cars pre-1955 were at least sooty, if not grimy with
some signs of rust on the underframe. Also, in period
movies of Rio Grande steam, EVERYTHING in the train
was dirty, down to the caboose. Passenger cars got
dirty on mountain lines, as well. The California
Zephyr would leave Denver clean, and would be sooty by
the first stop at Winter Park! (Again, the Alcos and
the Tunnel District didn't help matters much!) So...I
say it depends on the road. Until someone car prove me
otherwise, my freight cars get downright dirty before
turning a wheel towards Salt Lake.

Kevin Slark


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Re: Freight Cars and Fish

mbcarson2002
 

Is the shipment of canned fish seasonal ?? If there were
little risk of freezing then almost any house car would do.

The BAR (just about as far away as is possible to get in the
continental US) shipped potatoes in insulated box cars,
equipped with underfloor charcoal heaters, to prevent
freezing. The precautions were necessary as the potato
harvest is in the middle to late fall (September, October, &
early November) and shipments occur throughout the late fall
and winter.

Regards,

Mike Carson

----- Original Message -----
From: <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January, 2002 15:00
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Cars and Fish


: >I recently came across a document of the Port of Los
Angeles
: >Harbor Belt Line, basically "Superintendent Notices"
dated
: >1952. In it they talk about the care needed in spotting
cars
: >for loading at the various canneries in the port area.
Very
: >interesting, but they never mention what sort of cars to
spot.
: >
: >In the 1940's and 1950's, canned fish would be shipped
from the
: >cannery in what kind of car - a reefer or insulated
boxcar? And
: >would all seafood products have been shipped the same
way?
:
: Prior to about 1955, the insulated box car was pretty
rare, and uniced
: reefers were commonly used for products needing
temperature protection.
: However, many varieties of canned goods were shipped in
ordinary box cars.
: Some canned fish is cooked as part of the processing, in
which case
: temperature protection would be less important.
:
: Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley,
CA
: 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
http://www.signaturepress.com
: (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturepress.com
: Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history
:
:
:
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Re: Freight Cars and Fish

Tom Gloger
 

--- thompson@signaturepress.com wrote:
Prior to about 1955, the insulated box car was pretty rare,
and uniced reefers were commonly used for products needing
temperature protection.
However, many varieties of canned goods were shipped in ordinary
box cars. Some canned fish is cooked as part of the processing,
in which case temperature protection would be less important.
Would reefers have been used in the winter for protection of
canned goods against freezing?

=====
- Tom Gloger e-mail: mailto:tomgloger@yahoo.com
web page: http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.tgloger
____Content_below_this_line_is_from_Yahoo!,_not_from_me!____

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Re: Weathering...how much?

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I have seen a photo of a CofG box car in the UP (book: "West From Omaha") that
is wearing paint that can't be more than a few years old. The car is absolutely filthy
with grime... I guess that really cruddy cars are about as common as really shiny
ones -- they should each be represented on our layouts, but no more than 5% of
the total. Railroads did go on a buying spree from 1946 to the mid 1950's and there
were a LOT of fairly new freight cars in service by 1955. That, plus the loss of
steam, plus the practice of repainting cars every 7-10 years (since discontinued)
made for a fairly clean fleet.

However.... photos of PFE reefer blocks usually show a lot of grimy cars and
just a few clean ones.

People usually take photos in dry weather. Cars get dusty quickly in dry weather.
When it rains, a lot of dust washes off. Can this lead us to believe that cars were
dirty much of the time, when the opposite might be the case?


Re: Weathering...how much?

thompson@...
 

Mike makes some good points. One thing worth mentioning is that there are
plenty of photos, still and video, showing what is clearly a grimy car with
pretty clean lettering. I have always assumed this is due to chalking of
the white (usually) lettering. Reproducing this effect requires weathering
before decaling the model (a little harder to do on a prepainted model).
The improving technical qualities of paints must have played a role, too,
as John Nehrich pointed out. After WW II, railroad shops were busy catching
up on repairs to hard-used cars from wartime (and of course scrapping out
the worst and oldest ones), so the 1947-1952 (say) period SHOULD have
perhaps more than usual steam-era clean cars, both new cars and new, better
paint on the repaired or repainted cars.
As I have told some members of this list before, I think the biggest
challenge to modelers is to achieve a VARIETY of weathering levels. I guess
we tend to have a degree of grime which we each accept, and tend to weather
all our models to that approximate level. But as Mike observes, there
should certainly be some quite new and clean cars, and at least a few truly
grimy and almost black cars. That's a range that you rarely see on a layout
tour.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Weathering...how much?

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Transition era is probably just that in terms of weathering also. Steam
was dirty. Diesel was not as dirty (except for Alcos, grin). Cars that
lived their lives behind a steam engine were probably dirtier than those
behind a diesel. Coal burners might have been dirtier than oil burners.
Just guessing, with no real facts to back up this theory.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Weathering...how much?

Bill Schneider <branch@...>
 

Mike,

I'll nibble a bit at this one. I too have noticed that a great number of early-mid 50's are cleaner in photos than many models I have seen of them. I have always put this down to the postwar buying boom in new equipment and the reshopping of war-weary cars, but I'm not so sure now. I too spent several days home with a bug last week and had a chance to glance at a few videos. One of them, "PRR Glory III" had some great late 1930's color stuff by John Prophet and several of the cars looked like they were right out of Al Westerfields ads, clean paint and all. One PRR gon jumpls out in my memory, it was even shiny... could PRR cars be shiny? :>)

Maybe we look at the dirty old steam days with jaded eyes and things were not that as bad as we think......

Bill Schneider


Re: Freight Cars and Fish

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

In the 1940's and 1950's, canned fish would be shipped from the
cannery in what kind of car - a reefer or insulated boxcar? And
would all seafood products have been shipped the same way?
I'd guess reefers would be preferred for their insulation. And a load
of canned fish would probably max out the car load limit before reaching
the cubic limit. By the mid to late 1950's railroads began buying lots of
50 and then 70 ton insulated box cars, mostly for canned goods and
beer. The new cars also came with new load devices, and later with
cushion underframes.


Re: Freight Cars and Fish

thompson@...
 

I recently came across a document of the Port of Los Angeles
Harbor Belt Line, basically "Superintendent Notices" dated
1952. In it they talk about the care needed in spotting cars
for loading at the various canneries in the port area. Very
interesting, but they never mention what sort of cars to spot.

In the 1940's and 1950's, canned fish would be shipped from the
cannery in what kind of car - a reefer or insulated boxcar? And
would all seafood products have been shipped the same way?
Prior to about 1955, the insulated box car was pretty rare, and uniced
reefers were commonly used for products needing temperature protection.
However, many varieties of canned goods were shipped in ordinary box cars.
Some canned fish is cooked as part of the processing, in which case
temperature protection would be less important.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Weathering...how much?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

During my recovery from the flu following Prototype Rails, I took the
opportunity to view a rather extensive number of video tapes of variouis
railroads during the 1950s. I was struck by the number of frt cars that
appeared quite clean looking. Now, given that these cars were being filmed
from distances of at least a hundred feet, the term "clean" is obviously not
meant in a literal sense but more relative. The point is that, in the
majority of cases, the railroad name and logo are clearly seen...not hidden
at all from view by dirt and grime. Yes, there were examples of heavy
weathering, but not in most cases. I was surprised, in fact, at the apparent
lack of grime on hopper cars...in particular, those of the B&O [ seen on a
B&O tape for the curious wondering about Sherman Hill ].

My curiousity whetted, I'm wondering if I was seeing railroads that had
recently purchased fleets of new frt cars. I went back and checked the
Whittacker photo of the NP DS boxcar that Sunshine includes in their resin
kit. This car, showing only very slight weathering, was reweighed in March
of '52 while the photo was taken about a year and a half later during '54.
Other photos I've been checking seem to confirm the tendency to only light
weathering...and in the case of new cars, almost none. OTOH, at the same
time, one does see really grungy looking equipment and sometimes something
covered with spillage rather than weathering effects. These
observations...including a lot of time spent looking at photos in
books...leads me to wonder about just how much weathering and spillage
effects we should strive for? I tend to think that areas of cars near the
track should probably receive their share of grime but I think the
superstructures should, perhaps, be cleaner.

Having said all this, it is also true that paint does fade and weathering
effects do occur. My point is that this period may have seen a significant
number of new cars. And, perhaps, newly refurbished and painted older cars.
I'm also very aware that trains of PFE cars show quite a variety of age and
weathering effects during this time. Perhaps in this case, with PFE cutting
back the washing of cars, older equipment would be pretty discolored. One
thing you don't see much of is deteriating paint with rust showing
through...except on older Pennsy cars.

Comments?

Mike Brock


RC 8030 ATSF BX-27

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Trembling with fear, I venture again out upon thin ice...What, me
worry?......and comment that RC #8030 looks OK for ATSF BX-27 except for the
need to do a Duryea underframe. I assume this wouldn't be too difficult to
achieve.

I'm also assuming that Santa Fe put the Scout & Super Chief logos on the
cars. 8030-3I has a Super Chief and 8030-2J has a Scout...both with straight
line map...reweigh dates of 7-45.

Mike Brock


RC #8040 UP B-50-27

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Looking at Tim's list of 1937 AAR cars, I note that RC UP #8040-1,2&3 have ?
indicated. I have 8040-2b and 2c and can tell you it is lettered for a
B-50-27. Regretfully, the model has square corners and the 27 should have
rounded corners. The car would be correct for a B-50-19.

I don't have 8041 so I don't know what kind of corners it has. Did RC make a
round cornered AAR '37 car? If not, these will not be correct for a B-50-27.

Jeff Aley is the resident guru on UP cars and has a data base somewhere.
Jeff, why don't you load it into the STMFC files.

Mike Brock


Re: Digest Number 457

Howard R Garner <hrgarner@...>
 

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:45:40 -0500
From: "Bill Welch" <bwelch@uucf.org>
Subject: timonium report


More new stuff from Bob's. His stuff from Col McCoid has been a great thing for those of interested in southeastern railroading especially. Bob estimates that he has 300 more negatives to finish printing everything once, then he will begin printng the 8x10 glass negative! I nearly fainted when he told me this. Glad I was already sitting down. He has not printed any locomotive stuff yet either. He hopes to have a complete stock of photos from this collection at Naperville next October. Purchased 91 prints.
Glass Negatives!

Does this mean something for us turn of the (last) century models?
Looking forward to seeing them

Howard
Still lost in 1905



Freight Cars and Fish

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

I recently came across a document of the Port of Los Angeles
Harbor Belt Line, basically "Superintendent Notices" dated
1952. In it they talk about the care needed in spotting cars
for loading at the various canneries in the port area. Very
interesting, but they never mention what sort of cars to spot.

In the 1940's and 1950's, canned fish would be shipped from the
cannery in what kind of car - a reefer or insulated boxcar? And
would all seafood products have been shipped the same way?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


Why narrow gauge trucks?

David Soderblom
 

In response to the below, I commented on narrow gauge trucks because
someone had wanted to know if they had bolsters the same size as their
standard gauge counterparts. The answer is a strong no, they are scaled
down in all dimensions.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 20
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:17:19 -0500
From: "Jon Cagle" <jscagle@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Narrow gauge trucks

David:

Was there a question or thread that I missed regarding the information
that was
posted below?

Thanks.

Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: David Soderblom
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 11:13 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Narrow gauge trucks

Narrow gauge cars generally used 26-inch wheels and had a wheelbase of
48 inches (or close to that). They were built to take much less load
than a standard gauge truck and so had smaller dimensions all around,
including the size of the bolster and of the springs. I base this
statement on narrow gauge cars of the West Side Lumber Co., which
included some from the F&CC.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD


Re: IM and RC kits

Jeff English
 

"Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net> wrote:

8055-4 Ok P&LE 30535 682-B 1955 Steel Centers
The smallest of nits, Tim: Lot 682-B was P&LE 30000 - 30499,
blt '40 by Pressed Steel Car at McKees Rocks, Pa., while P&LE
30500 - 30999 were Lot 683-B, blt '40 by Pullman-Standard at
Butler, Pa., Lot 5625.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

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