Date   

Re: Virginian H12 and H14 hoppers

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Tim,
I have a photo (so do those who bought the Wheeler CD from me) of
an empty VGN hopper in Stewartville MN about to be loaded with iron
ore for shipment to Granite City IL
Rules are ment to be broken.
Clark Propst
PS No, I can't prove it.


Hoppers of the VGN were subject to Car Service Rule C-411 which
required
that all empty VGN, C&O, N&W and L&N hoppers were returned to
their
owners after being unloaded. Because this Rule was simple, it was
clearly understood and generally followed.

Therefore, their range extended to anywhere coal mined on the VGN
was
used. So the assumption is that, if there was a VGN hopper, it was
either loaded with coal mined on the VGN, or returning back to the
VGN
empty. Such an assumption could not be made for any hopper owned
by a
road not subject to Rule C-411.

Tim Gilbert


Re: VGN help needed

David Powell <daveydiesel@...>
 

Ben,

Many THANKS for all the info. I knew the ends would need to be scratch
built and I thought the car looked to tall as compared to the pix on the VGN
Group but with that said I guess I will build a stand in but mine will have
the letter boards on the sides, not like the Accurail car. Now I have to
find the back issues of MM if I am going to pursue this venture. I see the
underframe is all wrong too so will replace. Again THANKS for all this great
info.
Davey

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: VGN help needed



Davey Powell asked:
"I am searching for some info on Virginian, class BX-10/11, 40 foot
O.B. boxcars that were built by Baltimore Car & Foundry in 1906.
These are 50 ton, steel frame cars in the # series 61000-61249. I am
starting with an HO scale Accu[rail] O.B. boxcar as the side spacings
are correct. Does anyone know what type roof these cars had?"

Hutchins, 12 carlines. Be advised that if you're looking for an
accurate model of this car, the Accurail model is good only for a
stand-in:

HYPERLINK
"http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/4100/4111.jpg"http://www.accurail.com/
accurail/art/4100/4111.jpg

- The Accurail car is too tall (model 9 ft IH vs prototype 8 ft IH).
For single sheathed (NOT OUTSIDE BRACED) boxcars, you can't cut a foot
out of the body as you end up chopping off the top of the truss.

- The model roof has 13 carlines; the prototype has 12.

- The ends of the Accurail car are incorrect. The prototype had steel
ends with three pressed steel vertical reinforcements

That being said, you're in luck if you want an accurate model of this
car bad enough to scratchbuild it. Plans by Bob Hundman ran in the
February 2005 issue of Mainline Modeler, and a detailed series of
articles on scratchbuilding this car ran in the March, April, May, and
une 2005 issues of Mainline Modeler. Additionally, decals for this
car are available from Bill Moesteller of Great Decals:
HYPERLINK "http://www.greatdecals.com/"http://www.greatdecals.com/


Ben Hom







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Re: WAB 7000-7299 40' XM Branchline

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "mopacfirst" <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

Can anyone point me to a photo af the WAB 7000-7299 series? I
looked
in the various RMJ series last night, briefly, and didn't find
one.
There are earlier and later Wabash cars, but not this series.

As you might guess, I'm starting to build a couple Branchline. All
I
really want to do is confirm that this series or some of them had
Youngstown doors and open-grid roofwalk, in other words, that the
out-
of-the-box model has the right stuff. The model has 4-3R interim
improved dreadnought ends.

Main reason I ask is that I know Wabash had a history of buying
cars
with welded sides, bolster-to-bolster side sills, and other
nonstandard
stuff, and I'd rather know before I start something that would need
major surgery.

Ron,

I have sent you a scan of the builder photo of car 7000. Wabash
built this group of box cars at their Decatur, IL shop between April
and December 1952. They were the last "new" box cars, built or
purchased, by the railroad with 6 foot door openings. The bolster-to-
bolster side sills were present on all 40' box cars built by Decatur
between 1942 and 1952. 700 40' box cars were built by AC&F in 1948
with twelve panel welded sides and tab side sills, and numbered in
the 88200-88699 series.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Grabirons on Planos - how I do them

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Does that barge cement make stringers like Walthers Goo?

Ed
Well, yeah. Denny can tell this better, I think, but he drills a hole through the cap which he
plugs with a T-pin so he gets a tiny bit at a time. I've not gotten 'round to that yet, though I
intend to try that. I just use a hatpin, dip it into the Barge Cement at the top of the tube, and
then spin the pin till I break off the string. Then I apply this tiny amount to whatever . . .

SGL


Re: Slightly OT: TV Ad

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Brian,

Yes. I did notice the Ames Monument.

- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On May 25, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Brian Paul Ehni wrote:

Anyone else notice the Nissan Pathfinder "Left Turn" ad?

A stone pyramid is prominently featured. This is the Ames Monument,
located
at the original site of Sherman, between Cheyenne and Laramie, WY.
--

Brian Ehni




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: VGN help needed

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Davey Powell asked:
"I am searching for some info on Virginian, class BX-10/11, 40 foot
O.B. boxcars that were built by Baltimore Car & Foundry in 1906.
These are 50 ton, steel frame cars in the # series 61000-61249. I am
starting with an HO scale Accu[rail] O.B. boxcar as the side spacings
are correct. Does anyone know what type roof these cars had?"

Hutchins, 12 carlines. Be advised that if you're looking for an
accurate model of this car, the Accurail model is good only for a
stand-in:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/4100/4111.jpg

- The Accurail car is too tall (model 9 ft IH vs prototype 8 ft IH).
For single sheathed (NOT OUTSIDE BRACED) boxcars, you can't cut a foot
out of the body as you end up chopping off the top of the truss.

- The model roof has 13 carlines; the prototype has 12.

- The ends of the Accurail car are incorrect. The prototype had steel
ends with three pressed steel vertical reinforcements

That being said, you're in luck if you want an accurate model of this
car bad enough to scratchbuild it. Plans by Bob Hundman ran in the
February 2005 issue of Mainline Modeler, and a detailed series of
articles on scratchbuilding this car ran in the March, April, May, and
une 2005 issues of Mainline Modeler. Additionally, decals for this
car are available from Bill Moesteller of Great Decals:
http://www.greatdecals.com/


Ben Hom


Slightly OT: TV Ad

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

Anyone else notice the Nissan Pathfinder "Left Turn" ad?

A stone pyramid is prominently featured. This is the Ames Monument, located
at the original site of Sherman, between Cheyenne and Laramie, WY.
--

Brian Ehni


VGN help needed

Dave Powell <daveydiesel@...>
 

Hi Guys,
I am searching for some info on Virginian, class BX-10/11, 40 foot
O.B. boxcars that were built by Baltimore Car & Foundry in 1906. These
are 50 ton, steel
frame cars in the # sries 61000-61249. I am starting with an HO scale
Accucraft O.B. boxcar as the side spacings are correct. Does anyone
know what type roof these cars had? I only have 1 photo of said car but
I think one of you could possibly make out what kind of roof I will
need for this project.I have modeled for over 40 years now and this is
going to be my first car built to a specific prototype and hope fully
can take it to the Naperville, IL PRM meet come October so I need all
the help I can muster. Any and all help will be highly appreciative.
Thanks, Davey


Re: Virginian hoppers

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill McCoy asked:
"Is there a good starting point available for the Virginian H-12 2
bay and H-14 3 bay hoppers?

Frank Bongiovanni wrote:
"The H-12 is a 55T "34 foot" 8 panel hopper, and, to my eye, the
Accurail or the flat end Athearn works."

Specifically, VGN Class H-12 is a 34 ft IL, 7 side stake/8 panel
twin hopper, top chord 10 ft 8 in above the rails. The Athearn car
is dimensionally close (32 ft 4 in IL, 10 ft 10 in above the rails),
and the details are surprisingly close (aside from the usual Athearn
upgrades, the "ladder stiles" on the left side of the car need to be
replaced with two long grabs, the trust plate at upper right and the
vestigal offset hopper stakes in the interior need to be removed).

I strongly disagree with your recommendation of the Accurail USRA
twin for this prototype - the model is 10% undersized in length
compared to the prototype (model 30 ft 5 in IL vs prototype 34 ft
IL), significantly narrower (model 9 ft 5 1/2 in vs prototype 10 ft
4 in) and the details are different (the prototype did not have
gussets nor channel end verticals.

This is another manifestation of the myth that "all 7 side stake/8
panel twin hoppers are the same" myth, and really calls into
question the accuracy of the rest of your recommendations.


"Marty Swartz's VGN resource guide suggests the Walthers, with some
reservations."

If this recommendation is for the Class H-12 twin, it warrants more
than a few reservations. The Walthers (ex-Train Miniature) twin is
a 36 ft IL, 9 side stake/10 panel welded twin hopper. It is simply
not a good model of this prototype.


"Again, to my eye, the MDC 70T three bay is very close to an H-14."

I strongly disagree. The H-14 has a signature feature of later VGN
hoppers - the carbody deepened between the outer two side stakes.
Unlike the familiar "fishbelly" twins represented by the Stewart HO
model, these cars featured a straight side sill. (Photo from the
pay side of the RPI website.)
<http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Hoppers/Triples/HT-
triple-ribbed-11-panel-VGN-Rail-Data.jpg>

These photos are of cars built and delivered after the N&W takeover,
N&W Class H-34 (add 20 to the VGN class for the post-merger N&W
class)
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2355.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2356.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns2354.jpeg

With the Atlas Trainman triple now on the market, I really can't
recommend the MDC triple - the hoppers on all of the MDC triples are
the worst feature of the models as they are so shallow they just
look wrong. Kitbashing is a bit of a challenge - one approach would
be to start with the Atlas triple, remove all of the side stakes
except the outer two, and make an overlay from styrene for the
deeper car side. Add new side stakes from styrene strip. The most
tedious part of this kitbash is adding rivets to the new side
stakes. (If there's a resin manufacturer out there that you can
talk into doing overlays such as the Sunshine AAR alternate standard
offset hopper conversion kits, that would save a lot of time
kitbashing these cars.)


Ben Hom


Re: NP wood side reefer with classic NP round roof

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Gene Deimling wrote...
This series of cars presented a challenge to
research since no plans were found only a folio sheet. Fortunately,
there are a few old bodies to be found in Montana and other states.

Including one in Toppenish, Washington that Brian Pate and I took a zillion
photos of before he produced his Norwest HO resin kit of this car several
years ago. It's available at http://www.promodelbuilders.com/norwest/ It
was in pretty sad shape then. I don't know what it looks like now.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: NP wood side reefer with classic NP round roof

Gene Deimling <losgatos48@...>
 

Ed:
The only color photos that I have seen show black hardware. I am
not sure that an old "Prototype Modeler" article is a valid source
of prototype information. The There are no data sheets available
from the kit maker. This series of cars presented a challenge to
research since no plans were found only a folio sheet. Fortunately,
there are a few old bodies to be found in Montana and other states.

Gene Deimling

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., STMFC@... wrote:
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /686_side_shot_001_1-800.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@>
Description : The latest O scale urethane kit from Chooch
Ultra
Scale. Patterns and pilot model by Jim Zwernemann with decals
from
R.L. Design.

Wow, that's a nice model. Is there a data sheet that goes along
with
it that some of us HO modelers could get copies of?

In an old issue of "Prototype Modeler" I think thsy said that some
of
these cars has box car red hardware.


Re: Virginian hoppers

walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
 

Have any of the group checked out the new Hard Coal and Coal cars book by Robert Karig??? Although it mainly on the O&W Hopper fleet it has mountains of info and drawing also photos of other roads are included..This is a book about all you ever wanted to know about hopper cars and then some...Walt K>

----- Original Message -----
From: bongiovanni12001
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Virginian hoppers


Bill, as a quick answer: The H-12 is a 55T "34 foot" 8 panel hopper,
and, to my eye, the Accurail or the flat end Athearn works. Marty
Swartz's VGN resource guide suggests the Walthers, with some
reservations. Again, to my eye, the MDC 70T three bay is very close
to an H-14. You asked for a starting point. I'm sure there's more
expertise on this list, particularly with what to change.

With the help of others on the Virginian list I'm trying to work up a
decent list of VGN hopper types and "best" models. It's been slow
going. Once it's corrected by the real experts I'm going to share it
with the Virginian list, and, if there's any interest, I'd be happy to
share it with this list. But, please, patience. The more I dig the
more I find. (duh!!)

Frank Bongiovanni





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Virginian hoppers

bongiovanni12001
 

Bill, as a quick answer: The H-12 is a 55T "34 foot" 8 panel hopper,
and, to my eye, the Accurail or the flat end Athearn works. Marty
Swartz's VGN resource guide suggests the Walthers, with some
reservations. Again, to my eye, the MDC 70T three bay is very close
to an H-14. You asked for a starting point. I'm sure there's more
expertise on this list, particularly with what to change.

With the help of others on the Virginian list I'm trying to work up a
decent list of VGN hopper types and "best" models. It's been slow
going. Once it's corrected by the real experts I'm going to share it
with the Virginian list, and, if there's any interest, I'd be happy to
share it with this list. But, please, patience. The more I dig the
more I find. (duh!!)

Frank Bongiovanni


Re: Lettering

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce D. Griffin wrote:
Some kind folks at the B&O Historical Society Archives have created
True Type Fonts for some of the unique B&O fonts and described the
process. The fonts and the description are available at
http://borhs.org/Logos/bo_font_logo.html .
That would mostly be Chris Barkan, and these "fonts" are of course not type fonts in the ordinary sense but are font-like sets made from actual RR lettering. I know the result from Fontographer acts like a normal font, but the minute you say "font" to some people, they assume they can go off to a computer font vendor and buy it.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Lettering

bdg1210 <Bruce_Griffin@...>
 

Some kind folks at the B&O Historical Society Archives have created
True Type Fonts for some of the unique B&O fonts and described the
process. The fonts and the description are available at
http://borhs.org/Logos/bo_font_logo.html .

Bruce D. Griffin
Summerfield, NC


--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Another reference compared New Brunswick to New Century Schoolbook
. .
.
I can only speak about details for SP lettering, but this is an
excellent example of how a nominally "close" font does NOT duplicate a
particular railroad's lettering. The SP characters, including numerals,
were reprinted in my Vol. 1 on SP freight cars, and several are quite
at odds with any of the Century siblings, Schoolbook or otherwise.
Numerals in particular are visibly quite condensed for SP relative to
the font.
As Al Westerfield mentioned, this requires use of other
fonts to
get closer to the actual railroad's lettering practice, followed by
juggling both size and weight to be as "close" as possible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Virginian H12 and H14 hoppers

Bill McCoy
 

Tim, Thanks for the information.

My primary question which I didn't make clear was from a HO modeling
perspective. What's a good starting point to model these cars?

Bill McCoy

--- In STMFC@..., Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:

Bill McCoy wrote:

Is there a good starting point available for the Virginian H12 2
bay
and H14 3 bay hoppers. These cars were seen all over the south
and
probably midwest. Most were built at the Virginian's Princeton,
WV
shops as late a 2/56 in the case of the H14A.
Bill,

Hoppers of the VGN were subject to Car Service Rule C-411 which
required
that all empty VGN, C&O, N&W and L&N hoppers were returned to
their
owners after being unloaded. Because this Rule was simple, it was
clearly understood and generally followed.

Therefore, their range extended to anywhere coal mined on the VGN
was
used. So the assumption is that, if there was a VGN hopper, it was
either loaded with coal mined on the VGN, or returning back to the
VGN
empty. Such an assumption could not be made for any hopper owned
by a
road not subject to Rule C-411.

Tim Gilbert


NP wood side reefer with classic NP round roof

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., STMFC@... wrote:
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /686_side_shot_001_1-800.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@...>
Description : The latest O scale urethane kit from Chooch Ultra
Scale. Patterns and pilot model by Jim Zwernemann with decals from
R.L. Design.

Wow, that's a nice model. Is there a data sheet that goes along with
it that some of us HO modelers could get copies of?

In an old issue of "Prototype Modeler" I think thsy said that some of
these cars has box car red hardware.


Re: Virginian H12 and H14 hoppers

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Bill McCoy wrote:

Is there a good starting point available for the Virginian H12 2 bay
and H14 3 bay hoppers. These cars were seen all over the south and
probably midwest. Most were built at the Virginian's Princeton, WV
shops as late a 2/56 in the case of the H14A.
Bill,

Hoppers of the VGN were subject to Car Service Rule C-411 which required that all empty VGN, C&O, N&W and L&N hoppers were returned to their owners after being unloaded. Because this Rule was simple, it was clearly understood and generally followed.

Therefore, their range extended to anywhere coal mined on the VGN was used. So the assumption is that, if there was a VGN hopper, it was either loaded with coal mined on the VGN, or returning back to the VGN empty. Such an assumption could not be made for any hopper owned by a road not subject to Rule C-411.

Tim Gilbert


WAB 7000-7299 40' XM Branchline

mopacfirst
 

Can anyone point me to a photo af the WAB 7000-7299 series? I looked
in the various RMJ series last night, briefly, and didn't find one.
There are earlier and later Wabash cars, but not this series.

As you might guess, I'm starting to build a couple Branchline. All I
really want to do is confirm that this series or some of them had
Youngstown doors and open-grid roofwalk, in other words, that the out-
of-the-box model has the right stuff. The model has 4-3R interim
improved dreadnought ends.

Main reason I ask is that I know Wabash had a history of buying cars
with welded sides, bolster-to-bolster side sills, and other nonstandard
stuff, and I'd rather know before I start something that would need
major surgery.

Ron Merrick


Virginian H12 and H14 hoppers

Bill McCoy
 

Is there a good starting point available for the Virginian H12 2 bay
and H14 3 bay hoppers. These cars were seen all over the south and
probably midwest. Most were built at the Virginian's Princeton, WV
shops as late a 2/56 in the case of the H14A.

Bill McCoy
Jax

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