Date   

Utterly and completely off topic - S.T. & L.O. Railway Co. switch stands

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

I have begged Mike's indulgence given the depth and breadth of knowledge here and been granted a pardon to post this, but all replies must be OFF LIST. Does anyone know what happened to this maker of highly detailed, operating HO scale switch stands that could be used to route HO scale replicas of Steam Era freight cars? There was a Flagstaff, AZ address given in a review in the August, 1987, Model Railroading (page 29.)

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road, Guilford, CT 06437
info@speedwitch.com
www.speedwitch.com
(650) 787-1912


Old Prototype Modeler Magazine

up4024 <thekays100@...>
 

I am looking for a article published in Prototype Modeler's July/Aug
1989 Issue. It covers Santa Fe Boxcars. If someone has a copy I
would appreciate hearing from him or her offline.

Thanks,

Steve Kay


GM&O flat Q

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Fellas,
Are there any IC?GM&O fans out there who have the Morning Sun book on the
equipment of said roads? I am lloking for a photo of GM&O series
72000-72049 flat cars, for colors and markings in the 50s.
TIA,
Joe Binish


Re: ACL 0-25 1937 AAR Boxcars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

John and Richard,

Thanks for all the information on these cars.

Jim Brewer
www.pocahontasmodels.com

----- Original Message -----
From: golden1014
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ACL 0-25 1937 AAR Boxcars


Jim,

John Nehrich is right on about the ACL cars. It's doubtful that any
of the cars were still in the RR Roman at that late date--the
certainly would've been rare birds. ACL was pretty aggressive about
adding the Prismo stripes to everything after '51, and most of those
cars were likely to have repainted during that time as well.

The biggest problem with the Red Caboose ACL model--and it's not
necessarily a "big" problem--is that the prototypes were equipped
with Union Duplex rollers on the bottom of the doors, which changes
the look of the door tracks somewhat. The RC model does not include
this feature.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote:
>
> I recently acquired the Red Caboose model of this car for my circa
1956 model railroad.
>
> http://www.red-caboose.com/cgi-bin/e_catalog/catalog.cgi?
product_display=RR-
38091&shop=redcaboose&language=eng&curr=0&session=449963525ccfb670&ca
rt_id=55293552x23759
>
> It is in the 1941 as built lettering scheme, with roman
lettering. According to John Nehrich on the RPI site, ACL began
changing from roman to gothic lettering in 1941; in 1951 it began
adding the prismo striping; by 1951, according to RPI, the change
from roman to gothic was complete.
>
> So I guess I goofed in acquiring this model. Initially, I thought
I could just add the prismo striping and a new re-weigh date;
however, based upon the above, I believe this car should have gothic
lettering for my time period.
>
> Does anyone have a photo of this car class still in roman
lettering in the mid-50's?
>
> If not, I'll have to add it to the list of stuff to sell!
>
> Thanks for any assistance.
>
> Jim Brewer
> www.pocahontasmodels.com
>
>
>
>


Re: ACL 0-25 1937 AAR Boxcars

golden1014
 

Jim,

John Nehrich is right on about the ACL cars. It's doubtful that any
of the cars were still in the RR Roman at that late date--the
certainly would've been rare birds. ACL was pretty aggressive about
adding the Prismo stripes to everything after '51, and most of those
cars were likely to have repainted during that time as well.

The biggest problem with the Red Caboose ACL model--and it's not
necessarily a "big" problem--is that the prototypes were equipped
with Union Duplex rollers on the bottom of the doors, which changes
the look of the door tracks somewhat. The RC model does not include
this feature.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote:

I recently acquired the Red Caboose model of this car for my circa
1956 model railroad.

http://www.red-caboose.com/cgi-bin/e_catalog/catalog.cgi?
product_display=RR-
38091&shop=redcaboose&language=eng&curr=0&session=449963525ccfb670&ca
rt_id=55293552x23759

It is in the 1941 as built lettering scheme, with roman
lettering. According to John Nehrich on the RPI site, ACL began
changing from roman to gothic lettering in 1941; in 1951 it began
adding the prismo striping; by 1951, according to RPI, the change
from roman to gothic was complete.

So I guess I goofed in acquiring this model. Initially, I thought
I could just add the prismo striping and a new re-weigh date;
however, based upon the above, I believe this car should have gothic
lettering for my time period.

Does anyone have a photo of this car class still in roman
lettering in the mid-50's?

If not, I'll have to add it to the list of stuff to sell!

Thanks for any assistance.

Jim Brewer
www.pocahontasmodels.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


NMRA convention

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

We will be at the convention at booth 463. As usual, if you want us to bring any older kits let us know by July 3rd. The first version of the convention car is up on our web page now. The P&R class XMh will be available in three versions: original, safety appliances and modernized, covering the life of the car, 1902-1934. - Al Westerfield


Re: Experimental reefers

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

I've just realised that I have confused myself!

In my response, I should have referred to another experimental car - CSNX 201 with a split ammonia system converted in 1949 from the FGE FPOBX 4000 series, and it is that car for which I am seeking the outside length.

My apologies.

Rupert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rupert and Maureen" <gamlenz@ihug.co.nz>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Experimental reefers


Tony

Thanks for this. The 80000 car was apparently converted from an FGE FOBX
4000 series car which also had overhead bunker. Can you advise the outside
length of these cars in the late 40's when this car was converted.

Thanks

Rupert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson" <thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Experimental reefers


Rupert Gamlen wrote:
In 1946, two experimental reefers were built at Plattsmouth for CB&Q,
numbered BREX 74699 & 74700. The cars had steel sides and permanently
mounted underslung alcohol-burning heaters, with overhead ice bunkers
instead of end bunkers, filled through eight roof hatches. The effect
was to greatly increase useable space and capacity.
More importantly, the cars with overhead bunkers had greatly
improved temperature uniformity. But there were drawbacks too: longer
time to ice, more damage to the shallow overhead bunkers by workmen
wielding ice tools, greatly raised center of gravity, and condensation
dripping from the bottom of the bunkers onto the load. All this is
covered in some detail in the PFE book. For the drawback reasons, PFE
ceased experimentation with overhead bunkers, since their major
advantage, temperature uniformity, could be accomplished with fans
instead.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Experimental reefers

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Tony

Thanks for this. The 80000 car was apparently converted from an FGE FOBX 4000 series car which also had overhead bunker. Can you advise the outside length of these cars in the late 40's when this car was converted.

Thanks

Rupert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson" <thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Experimental reefers


Rupert Gamlen wrote:
In 1946, two experimental reefers were built at Plattsmouth for CB&Q,
numbered BREX 74699 & 74700. The cars had steel sides and permanently
mounted underslung alcohol-burning heaters, with overhead ice bunkers
instead of end bunkers, filled through eight roof hatches. The effect
was to greatly increase useable space and capacity.
More importantly, the cars with overhead bunkers had greatly
improved temperature uniformity. But there were drawbacks too: longer
time to ice, more damage to the shallow overhead bunkers by workmen
wielding ice tools, greatly raised center of gravity, and condensation
dripping from the bottom of the bunkers onto the load. All this is
covered in some detail in the PFE book. For the drawback reasons, PFE
ceased experimentation with overhead bunkers, since their major
advantage, temperature uniformity, could be accomplished with fans
instead.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Experimental reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Rupert Gamlen wrote:
In 1946, two experimental reefers were built at Plattsmouth for CB&Q, numbered BREX 74699 & 74700. The cars had steel sides and permanently mounted underslung alcohol-burning heaters, with overhead ice bunkers instead of end bunkers, filled through eight roof hatches. The effect was to greatly increase useable space and capacity.
More importantly, the cars with overhead bunkers had greatly improved temperature uniformity. But there were drawbacks too: longer time to ice, more damage to the shallow overhead bunkers by workmen wielding ice tools, greatly raised center of gravity, and condensation dripping from the bottom of the bunkers onto the load. All this is covered in some detail in the PFE book. For the drawback reasons, PFE ceased experimentation with overhead bunkers, since their major advantage, temperature uniformity, could be accomplished with fans instead.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Experimental reefers

Rupert and Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

In 1946, two experimental reefers were built at Plattsmouth for CB&Q, numbered BREX 74699 & 74700. The cars had steel sides and permanently mounted underslung alcohol-burning heaters, with overhead ice bunkers instead of end bunkers, filled through eight roof hatches. The effect was to greatly increase useable space and capacity. Reefer 74699 survived until after 1970, but 74700 didn't even make it onto the July 1947 ORER, at least under that number.

Does anyone know what happened to it?

And whilst on the subject of experimental reefers, does anyone know the fate of BRDX 80000. This car was built in April 1947 at Plattsmouth with dry ice (solid carbon dioxide) as the refrigerant.

Thanks

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Re: The Railroad Press

Randy Williamson
 

The pictures cover from the 1950's (wrecked Berwind hopper cars) to
modern. A very interesting shot of a wreck damaged Linde gas
products box car missing its door.

Dayna & Randy Williamson
www.trainstuffllc.com
----------



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50 ft. box cars in 1943

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@...>
wrote:
Where on earth did you get these numbers for SP? The easiest
check is the "Recapitulation" at the end of the railroad entry. My
1944
register shows just 1550 cars of 50-foot length out of an SP box car
fleet of 24,549 cars. My math sure ain't the same as your math: I
make
it 6%.
When I first read this comment I thought I put my foot in my mouth
again but on checking - p. 1016 Jan. '43 ORER (the
reprint) "Rcapitulation of Cars - Freight - Southern Pacific - Lines
West 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 19963, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 5124.
I went up front to the railroad's own section - 50 ft. cars (added by
me) - 5409, total box car type (added up in the ORER) - 25,087. Large
groups included XM IL 50'6" cap. 4963 - 500 cars, XA IL 50'6" cap.
4963 - 499 cars, XAF IL 50'3" cap. 4630 - 1005 cars & XAR IL 50'6"
cap. 4398 - 891 cars.

going back to the summary satrting on page 1012 -
ATSF - 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 28859, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 3611
Milw - 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 29609, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 2466,
GN - 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 22721, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 3053
Soo - 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 8060, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 998
NYC - 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 46994, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 2699
NP - 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 20636, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 2239
PRR - 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 74725, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 4483
UP- 40 ft. to 40 ft. 11 in. - 23901, 50 ft. to 50 ft. 11 in. - 4243

The railroads above had more than half of the 45K I mentioned before


Ed


Re: Erie/C&O realtionship

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

ed_mines wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:
In 1931, the ERIE and C&O were owned by the Van Swerigens.
They also owned PM & NKP but I don't know if they did in 1931. There
are a couple of NKP picture books (official NKP RR photos) and a
caption on one photo says that NKP carried train loads of C&O hoppers
carrying coal.









Ed,

Herbert H. Harwood Jr.'s INVISIBLE GIANTS ( Indiana University Press, 2003) is the story of the Van Sweringen Empire which collapsed in the mid-1930's. In 1930, the Van Sweringen brothers controlled in the NKP, PM, C&O, ERIE, W&LE, C&EI and MP including T&P and other subsidiaries plus the MP's 50% share of the DRG&W. They also owned a minority in the KCS (20%) and CGW.

Tim Gilbert


<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJkYm1pZWdzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMTY5NzI1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTUxMDc5NDM4;_ylg=1/SIG=10skg51ah/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com>
<mailto:STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


Erie/C&O realtionship

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:
In 1931, the ERIE and C&O were owned by the Van Swerigens.
They also owned PM & NKP but I don't know if they did in 1931. There
are a couple of NKP picture books (official NKP RR photos) and a
caption on one photo says that NKP carried train loads of C&O hoppers
carrying coal.

Ed


Re: Santa Fe Ft-N lettering question

charles slater
 

The "LENGTH BETWEEN BULKHEADS" goes on the top board of the bulkhead, "FASTEN DIAGONAL BRACING RODS BEFORE MOVING CAR" goes just below it. The larger size "RETURN TO WHEN EMPTY" can be placed most anywhere on the bulkhead as this location varied between cars. The small size "RETURN TO WHEN EMPTY" goes on the car side sill, usually just to the right of the splice plate.
Charlie Slater
Bakersfield, Ca.

From: "sfeforever" <dwedel1@cox.net>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe Ft-N lettering question
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 00:38:02 -0000

Hi group. Just finished my Sunshine Models kit 66.3 and have a
question concerning inner face lettering on the bulkheads. I figured
out the return to and 48'6" between faces but where does the bulkhead
height, replace diagonal bracing, etc. stenciling go ? - - - Thanks,
Dwight Wedel.



Re: Numbers/percentages of important box car types

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

ed_mines wrote:

When I started the thread I was asking about box cars. I'm
interested in the box car shortage era from WWII to 1947 or '48.

I'm pretty sure of the % of SS, DS cars and I was very close to the
data Tim presented.
Ed,

You used the 1949 Table 27 while I cited the 1950 Table 27 data. Table 27 provided the number of All-Steel and Steel Underframe Freight Cars broken down into car types - we cited the boxcars numbers.

Table 27 does not provide the breakdown between SS and DS cars.


What I wasn't sure about is the % of 50 ft. cars and the ratio of
Pratt truss SS box cars compared to Howe truss SS box cars. I
contend that approximately 5% of all box cars were 50 ft. in 1946 &
1 SS box car in 8 had Pratt truss sides.

Tony Thompson wrote that 50 ft. cars were common.

Using a 1943 freight car register (I have the bound copy from NMRA)
I counted 45,000 - 50 ft. box cars from the house car summary in the
back. Interestingly enough west coast railroads had more cars
percentage wise. SP had 20% - 50 ft. cars! PRR had about 5%. ATSF
had 10%. UP had a similar number.
As per the April 1949 ORER, there were 730,496 Boxcars on Class I RR's reporting: - 27,322 (3.7% of total) had inside lengths around 36'; 641,844 (87.9%) had inside lengths of around 40'; 61,319 (8.4% were around 50' long and the PRR had 11 60 footers.

In the East, 6.7% (18,421) of the boxcars were fifty-footers; 5.5 (7,801) of the Southern RR's boxcars were fifty footers; while 11.2% (35,907) of the Western roads' boxcars were fifty footers. The fifty footer percentages of individual roads' boxcars were 19.7% (SP-Pac), 15.7% UP; 13.7% of GN's; 11.5% of ATSF's; 10.3% of PRR's and 8.9% of NYC's.


I concur with the comment that conductors lists are near impossible
to find.
They were official records of the RR's which had to be turned in when the book was completed.

The Erie lists Schuyler Larrabee published had some unusual
movements - like a big block of empty Swift reefers from Chicago to
Boston (just the opposite of what you'd expect) so I'm not convinved
that they were typical. Maybe it was because of the depression. Too,
Erie consists in Chicago were different than the east end of Erie.

Schuyler's lists also showed Erie moving a lot of coal in C&O
hoppers near Chicago. I wonder if they that in the east?
In 1931, the ERIE and C&O were owned by the Van Swerigens.

Tim Gilbert


Re: 1937 AAR Boxcar with Nailable Steel Floor?

Tim O'Connor
 

benjaminfrank_hom wrote

Were any 10 ft IH 1937 AAR boxcars with W-section corner posts
originally built with nailable steel floors?
However, the Wabash did acquire 10 ft IH cars during the 1960s, WAB
60000-60999, built 1944, 4/5 Dreadnaught ends, 6 ft Youngstown door,
7 rung ladders, tabbed side sill. The question is who originally
built these cars before they went to the Wabash?
Ben, the Wabash car series 60000-60999 was second hand cars of
pre- and post-war design originally built for the New Haven (i.e.
it includes 1937 cars with 4/5 ends, and postwar cars with 3/4
ends).

But I can't answer your question about NSF for the cars. The first
NSF cars that I can remember were built post-war.

Tim O'Connor


Re: C&O AAR caboose trucks

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Steve Busch wrote-

Denny Anspach wrote concerning the trucks fitted to the C&O class K3-5 wood cabooses.

Denny, you are probably already familiar with Carl Shaver's "Freight Car Equiptment of the C&O Railway August 1, 1937" ....All of the following photos show the cars and / or what looks to be the same appearance AAR truck which replaced the archbar type originally fitted.
and Andy Sperandeo then writes

Judging from the photos in Steve Busch's e-mail, Tichy's no. 3051
"Bettendorf" leaf-spring caboose trucks would be a reasonable stand-in for
those C&O caboose trucks.
Again, thanks so much for the efforts on my behalf.

I do have Shaver's book (at my left hand, as we speak), a very good reference; but Steve's photos really tell the story. Now to find the Tichy trucks....

What set this all off was the ridicule, and the rain of some downright unkind remarks that I have been enduring because I have had a Milwaukee Road caboose (a very nice one at that) trailing a special 122 car HO test train behind a single unassisted C&O 2-6-6-6 that I have been successfully operating for the past two months. A very serious C&O modeler, Jim Davis, was disgusted enough to plunk down a box of two Walthers' C&O K3-5 red cabooses with the challenge to me to both finish and detail them decently, and then to properly bookend the train with them.

It has been a surprisingly pleasant project, and a nice respite from my usual midwest grange road modeling. The one caboose will have the original archbars (according to Shaver, the very last cars purchased new by the C&O with archbar trucks), while the other will have the new AAR trucks, with which almost all of the cars were eventually equipped.

BTW, these handsome models apparently have fully detailed interiors, which as far as I can see are perfectly invisible. I thought momentarily of installing Utah Pacific lighted markers, but I simply could not see how the roof could ever be easily removed once the car was fully and completely assembled (much less at earlier stages).

Denny








So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Numbers/percentages of important box car types

Tony Thompson
 

I wrote:
Where on earth did you get these numbers for SP? The easiest check is the "Recapitulation" at the end of the railroad entry . . .

My bad. Dropped part of the list--Ed's number is close.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Numbers/percentages of important box car types

Tony Thompson
 

Ed Mines wrote:
Tony Thompson wrote that 50 ft. cars were common.

Using a 1943 freight car register (I have the bound copy from NMRA)
I counted 45,000 - 50 ft. box cars from the house car summary in the
back. Interestingly enough west coast railroads had more cars
percentage wise. SP had 20% - 50 ft. cars!
Where on earth did you get these numbers for SP? The easiest check is the "Recapitulation" at the end of the railroad entry. My 1944 register shows just 1550 cars of 50-foot length out of an SP box car fleet of 24,549 cars. My math sure ain't the same as your math: I make it 6%.
For the T&NO, there were 560 50-foot cars out of 5476 total box cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

134321 - 134340 of 189611