Date   

Re: Greenville Steel 1321 cu. ft LO's

Ed Hawkins
 

On Monday, July 3, 2006, at 12:05 PM, Michael Schwiebert wrote:

Good afternoon; I am looking to see if drawings have ever been
published for this configuration of car. The Detroit Toledo & Ironton
had a small fleet of these cars #11800-11814 that were built by
Greenville in 1934 under builders reference 0.0.207. Were there any
other carriers that rostered these cars? My intent is to construct a
model of this car using an eastern car works kit as a starting kit
(unless something closer already exists) I have a copy of the DT&I
diagram book with these cars that can be used as a starting point, but
any additional information to reference (published drawings, on line
photos etc.) would be useful as well.
Michael,
Erie also had 50 of the cars, series 20000-20049 (O.O. 202), as well as private owner Union Carbide, who bought a total of 11 cars in 4 orders from 1935 to 1941 (O.O. 218 - 2 cars, O.O. 231 - 1 car, O.O. 249 - 4 cars, and O.O. 309 - 4 cars).

All cars used GSC general arrangement drawing 13394. The Erie and DT&I cars used brake arrangement drawing 13397. The Union Carbide cars don't have a brake arrangement drawing specified, so they probably lacked AB brakes for in-plant service.

When the former GSC plant closed its doors several years ago, I understand that Trinity Industries moved the technical data (drawings, bills of materials, etc.) to their plant at Butler, Pennsylvania (former Pullman-Standard plant). You might try contacting someone at that plant and see if copies of these drawing can be made.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Construction details of NYC Lot 799-B boxcars

al_brown03
 

There's a partial side shot of NYC 177999 in Grenard and
Krause's "The Overland Route", p 34: shows tabbed side sill
and "Bettendorf" trucks of generic appearance (not Dalmans or
National B-1s; the shot's sharp enough that a truck expert could
tell more).

And in Model Railroading 12/88, p 57, is NYC 178286, shot I think
from a bridge, but the farthest away of three cars. Roof and running
board and a corner of one end show. The side sills are definitely
tabbed. On the other stuff I defer to greater expertise.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., "Mark Heiden" <mark_heiden@...> wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for information and photos of some New York Central
boxcars, Lot 799-B, series NYC 177800-178299. These were 50ft
boxcars
with 8ft doors, were built at Despatch shops in 1950. I have
found an
equipment diagram, but no photos so far. I would like to know what
type of the following components the cars were built with:

Ends (equipment diagram seems to indicate Improved Dreadnaught,
1/3/4)
Roof
Brakewheel
Running boards
Trucks
Side sill (solid, tabbed, drop, etc)

Any descriptions or photos would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Greenville Steel 1321 cu. ft LO's

Michael Schwiebert
 

Good afternoon; I am looking to see if drawings have ever been
published for this configuration of car. The Detroit Toledo & Ironton
had a small fleet of these cars #11800-11814 that were built by
Greenville in 1934 under builders reference 0.0.207. Were there any
other carriers that rostered these cars? My intent is to construct a
model of this car using an eastern car works kit as a starting kit
(unless something closer already exists) I have a copy of the DT&I
diagram book with these cars that can be used as a starting point, but
any additional information to reference (published drawings, on line
photos etc.) would be useful as well.

Thanks in advance!

Michael Schwiebert


Re: Rebuilt(?) SFRD Reefers

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Ted:
You need to get,
Volume Two, Refrigerator Cars: Ice Bunker Cars 1884-1979 .
by Keith Jordan, Richard H. Hendrickson, John B. Moore and A. Dean Hale

which is available at
http://www.atsfrr.com/store/book3.htm

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "T Larson" <mhrreast@...>
To: "freight steam" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Rebuilt(?) SFRD Reefers


I'm seeking information about SFRD reefers with plug doors as shown at

http://www.geocities.com/oldlahistory/sfrd4206.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/oldlahistory/sfrd33055.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90282 SFRD 11194
class Rr48
http://freight.railfan.ca/atsf/sfrd11286.jpg

I presume that they are rebuilt from swing door cars. Based on their
diverse numbers I presume they are from several classes. I have scoured
all my books, magazine articles, and on-line sources and have found no
mention of them. Can anybody provide info or suggest on-line, book, or
magazine references?
I'm interested knowing general information about these; when and why
they were done, were the numbers changed, were the whole class
modified....
Most importantly, I'm interested in knowing specific info, especially
what was on the opposite side; text or map; what numbers received which
train name, to enable accurate modeling.
All the photos I cite above are for cars of 13'-4" height with
fish-belly frame.

There are also similar cars of 14'-1" height with straight frame.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=13199
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=27015
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=104897
SFRD 11461 (photo not on line)

--
Ted Larson

If a man is alone in a forest, is he still wrong?






Yahoo! Groups Links







Rebuilt(?) SFRD Reefers

T Larson <mhrreast@...>
 

I'm seeking information about SFRD reefers with plug doors as shown at

http://www.geocities.com/oldlahistory/sfrd4206.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/oldlahistory/sfrd33055.jpg
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=90282 SFRD 11194 class Rr48
http://freight.railfan.ca/atsf/sfrd11286.jpg

I presume that they are rebuilt from swing door cars. Based on their diverse numbers I presume they are from several classes. I have scoured all my books, magazine articles, and on-line sources and have found no mention of them. Can anybody provide info or suggest on-line, book, or magazine references?
I'm interested knowing general information about these; when and why they were done, were the numbers changed, were the whole class modified....
Most importantly, I'm interested in knowing specific info, especially what was on the opposite side; text or map; what numbers received which train name, to enable accurate modeling. All the photos I cite above are for cars of 13'-4" height with fish-belly frame.

There are also similar cars of 14'-1" height with straight frame. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=13199 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=27015 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=104897 SFRD 11461 (photo not on line)

--
Ted Larson

If a man is alone in a forest, is he still wrong?


Re: grain box cars were primary coal carriers

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Many mid-western roads
hauled coal in gons, not hoppers. Labor was cheap,
Doug Harding
Add to Doug's comments: When a gondola was spotted at the coal shed's
trackside door (most elevators had coal sheds) it could have been
unloaded by day labor. I know/knew guys that would do such jobs on
Saturdays. They would first throw chunks of coal into the bin until
they reached the floor of the car then they could scoop shovel the
rest in through the shed door. You got $5 and needed a shower.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Gary Ray / SN

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Gary,

Please contact me by private e-mail or by snail mail (address below). My server says your domain is bogus, even though it worked fine last week.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff
Mallard Lodge
1713 Essex Road
Charlottesville, VA 22901



Construction details of NYC Lot 799-B boxcars

Mark Heiden
 

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for information and photos of some New York Central
boxcars, Lot 799-B, series NYC 177800-178299. These were 50ft boxcars
with 8ft doors, were built at Despatch shops in 1950. I have found an
equipment diagram, but no photos so far. I would like to know what
type of the following components the cars were built with:

Ends (equipment diagram seems to indicate Improved Dreadnaught, 1/3/4)
Roof
Brakewheel
Running boards
Trucks
Side sill (solid, tabbed, drop, etc)

Any descriptions or photos would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark Heiden


Re: Mystery car

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Denny,

Sounds like it might be an old Laconia or Mainline (now Ye Olde Huff n' Puff) kit. Don't know if it has a real PEP prototype. Certainly not a Mather car.

PEP used to ship eggs out of the Pacific Northwest. Walthers once offered the old Train Miniature body with PEP lettering, and PEP decals were at one time in Walthers' line. IIRC, AC&F built some of the PEP-leased reefers, and a builder's photo of at least one example can be found in an early RPC issue.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Denny Anspach wrote:

In my collection of "old things", I have a very neatly proportioned, neatly detailed, and neatly built yellow/oxide wood-model, wood-prototype house car from the 1950's, North American Despatch NADX 6002- assigned to Pacific Egg Producers. The sides are so-so monotone silk screened, and insofar as I can actually read the building date, it looks like 2/27 or -9. The flush doors have two hinges only, and the roof is radial, with definite eaves all around. Although it otherwise looks like a reefer, there are in fact no ice hatches. There are instead neatly modeled lateral running boards with single longitudinal (vs. angled) grabs. The hand brake is horizontal, and there is an AB brake system.

As a model, it has many characteristics typical of Silver Streak. However, the radial roof and the fabricated wood underframe gives it away. The original early Kadee couplers belie the model's '50s origins. The trucks are early sprung MDC (not bad).

I have been guessing that this model is a Suydam product, but do not know for sure.

What might anyone know of the prototype? Mather? Were eggs shipped in ventilated, insulated, but not refrigerated cars?

Thanks!

Denny


Re: GN grain loads

Tony Thompson
 

Ted Larson wrote:
That was so long ago and I was in grade school then, so the memories
are faint and it is difficult to comment. Seems I read in the GNRHS
magazine that there many trains on the St.Cloud-Twin Ports route made
up of grain loaded at the many small country elevators in Minnesota and
South Dakota. Thanks for the info that GN had more DS than SS. That
will definitely influence my model building plans.
There is much more specific info in Richard Hendrickson's chapter on GN freight cars, contained in Pat Dorin's _Great Northern Lines East_ which we published.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


GN grain loads

Ted Larson
 

That was so long ago and I was in grade school then, so the memories
are faint and it is difficult to comment. Seems I read in the GNRHS
magazine that there many trains on the St.Cloud-Twin Ports route made
up of grain loaded at the many small country elevators in Minnesota and
South Dakota. Thanks for the info that GN had more DS than SS. That
will definitely influence my model building plans.
Ted

--- STMFC@... wrote:
Posted by: "Tony Thompson" thompsonmarytony@...
tony8thompson
Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:59 am (PDT)

Ted Larson wrote:
I do NOT recall looking at the road name on these boxcars but I do
recall that they were a mix of DS and SS.
The GN had a rather small number of SS 40-ft. box cars, so if the
proportions were well mixed, there must have been a lot of non-GN cars.



Ted Larson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Re: Digest Number 3197 GN Box Cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
"'War Emergency' cars were standard ARA (ARR??) designs that had the
sides replaced with steel exposed steel truss and single sheathing to
save on steel. IIRC the NP and GN had similar double sheathed
cars but I'm not sure of their built dates to know if they qualify
as 'War Emergency' cars."

There were NO double sheathed "War Emergency" boxcars. NP 28000-28999
were built during WWII and qualify as a "War Emergency" design, but
was a Howe truss design, not the AAR standard "War Emergency" car.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/np/np28151ajs.jpg


"NKP and some other roads had "War Emergency" cars as well; they were
not all the same."

The AAR came up with a standard Pratt truss design for the WWII "War
Emergency" cars, essentially the 1937 AAR design with the steel sides
replaced with SS sides. There were several height variations:

10 ft IH: A&WP, BS, CG, WofA
10 ft 4 in IH: WAB
10 ft 5 in IH: CNW/CMO
10 ft 6 in IH: Alton/GM&O, ATSF, NKP
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Box-cars/40-foot-single-
sheathed/GM&O-War-Emergency-xm-Winters.jpg

Additionally, the Katy rebuilt a series of reefers with this body
type, retaining the heavy fishbelly underframe and Andrews trucks.


"I think resin kits for many of them have been offered in HO."

The AAR cars were orignally offered in HO scale as a Westrail
conversion kit with sides by Lloyd Keyser; Sunshine has all of the
cars listed above, including the NP car (and except for the Katy car,
which would be a neat kitbash) in their 24 series. The NP car is
marked as "Closeout 2003" on Jim Hayes' list, but the others may be
still available.


Ben Hom


TRP 70

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I happened to pick up a copy of The Railroad Press, Issue 70, in a Borders Friday. I admit that I
was snared by the (out of our era) photo of the EL Bicentennials on the cover, but what this list
may want to know is that there's an article entitled "Freight Cars Around Altoona". Most of the
color<<< photos are from the early to late 50s, and some are past our cutoff date. The color is
very believeable, and very interesting. MILW, GN, CofG are all represented, even though its in
Altoona, so don't just assume there's nothing there for the west-of-the-river crowd. In fact,
there's an a article "Santa Fe Railway in Oklahoma and Kansas" with a lot of pre-60 photos, again in
color.

I have no connection to TRP, but after seeing this issue, I may subscribe!

SGL


Re: Mystery car

Tony Thompson
 

Denny Anspach wrote:
In my collection of "old things", I have a very neatly proportioned,
neatly detailed, and neatly built yellow/oxide wood-model,
wood-prototype house car from the 1950's, North American Despatch
NADX 6002- assigned to Pacific Egg Producers. The sides are so-so
monotone silk screened, and insofar as I can actually read the
building date, it looks like 2/27 or -9. The flush doors have two
hinges only, and the roof is radial, with definite eaves all around.
Although it otherwise looks like a reefer, there are in fact no ice
hatches. There are instead neatly modeled lateral running boards with
single longitudinal (vs. angled) grabs.
As Richard has already pointed out, the prototype cars definitely had ice hatches (and of course bunkers). There were a lot of egg cars in the 1920-1930 period, so this was not unusual; many also shipped dressed poultry, an obvious additional product.
Denny's assessment that this model combines reefer sides with some other car body strikes me as probably right.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: grain box cars were primary coal carriers

Douglas Harding
 

Denny, right you are. I preach for the first time at the Ocheyedan UMC at
10:30 tomorrow morning. Extra points if I pronounce the name correctly.

Would like to know more about the coal dealer, however. When you come for
your annual vacation, drop by and show me the location. As you commented
every town in Iowa had a fuel dealer/lumberyard who handled coal. But few,
if any, had trestles for unloading hoppers. Coal was stored on the ground,
often shoveled out by hand from gons and boxcars. Many mid-western roads
hauled coal in gons, not hoppers. Labor was cheap, and I suspect that
unloading a gon of coal was "filler" work for the local lumber yard crew,
something to do when no other work was demanded. Coal was hauled in boxcars
during the winter months, to keep it from getting wet and freezing into one
large lump.

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
www.iowacentralrr.org
Now relocated in Sibley, Ia.


Re: grain box cars were primary coal carrriers

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

David Smith wrote:

What would the coal loading equipment have consisted of? Also, was this a widespread practice (eastern roads as well) or was it local to the grain states?

Dave,

In JK Nelson's 1941 Wheel Reports of the OSL (UP) between Green River WV and Montpelier ID, boxcars were used to carry coal westbound - I assume from mines in Wyoming. In his 1942 Wheel Report, that practice seemed to have been dropped since there were no boxcars carrying coal westbound.

Tim Gilbert




Re: grain box cars were primary coal carriers

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Clark Probst , who is only a near-miss-Minnesotan, writes-

Minnesota is big on twin names. You got the Twin Cities, Twin Ports,
Minnesota Twins, Ole and Lena....

Now, as to Ole and Lena: THAT, I do understand-

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Mystery Car

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Richard identifies the N.A.D.X 6000 series-

The prototype cars had
outside wood roofs (definitely NOT radial), ice bunkers with wood hatch
covers, and fishbelly steel center sills. Air brakes were KC and would
not have been converted to AB before the 1938 deadline that outlawed
leased reefers with billboard paint and lettering. In short, the model
strays rather far from being an accurate replica of the prototype.
Yes. As I have commented to Richard off list (and before receiving this Digest), I suspect that in this very early kit, the original sides, probably representing a boxcar, were set aside for the reefer sides now in place. Not the first time this occurred in an era where model car bodies were often one-size-fits-all, individuality provided by the modeler's choice of a selection of different car sides.

Denny



--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Mystery car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 1, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:

In my collection of "old things", I have a very neatly proportioned,
neatly detailed, and neatly built yellow/oxide wood-model,
wood-prototype house car from the 1950's, North American Despatch
NADX 6002- assigned to Pacific Egg Producers. The sides are so-so
monotone silk screened, and insofar as I can actually read the
building date, it looks like 2/27 or -9. The flush doors have two
hinges only, and the roof is radial, with definite eaves all around.
Although it otherwise looks like a reefer, there are in fact no ice
hatches. There are instead neatly modeled lateral running boards with
single longitudinal (vs. angled) grabs. The hand brake is horizontal,
and there is an AB brake system.

As a model, it has many characteristics typical of Silver Streak.
However, the radial roof and the fabricated wood underframe gives it
away. The original early Kadee couplers belie the model's '50s
origins. The trucks are early sprung MDC (not bad).

I have been guessing that this model is a Suydam product, but do not
know for sure.

What might anyone know of the prototype? Mather? Were eggs shipped
in ventilated, insulated, but not refrigerated cars?
NADX series 6000-6399 (only a small number of cars in the series would have been assigned to PEP, of course). Built in 1927 at the Hegewisch, IL, plant of the Pressed Steel Car Co. PSC built many reefers for North American in the 1920s, most of them with four large door hinges on each side rather than the more common arrangement of six hinges. I have a photo of NADX 6039 built in 7-27 and painted and lettered for PEP service and will send you a scan off-list. The prototype cars had outside wood roofs (definitely NOT radial), ice bunkers with wood hatch covers, and fishbelly steel center sills. Air brakes were KC and would not have been converted to AB before the 1938 deadline that outlawed leased reefers with billboard paint and lettering. In short, the model strays rather far from being an accurate replica of the prototype.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: grain box cars were primary coal carrriers

walter kierzkowski <cathyk@...>
 

Hudson Coal Co. , Northeastern Pa. used box cars for coal along with hoppers and even their ads in a promotional book on coal shows box cars being loaded with coal...WJK

I can scan a photo of this but need somebody to put it on the group site..

----- Original Message -----
From: David Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: grain box cars were primary coal carrriers


What would the coal loading equipment have consisted of? Also, was
this a widespread practice (eastern roads as well) or was it local to
the grain states?

Thanks,

Dave Smith

140221 - 140240 of 195635