On Sep 4, 2006, at 6:11 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:

Richard (and others) - thanks for the painting corrections. I'm
modeling the car off a prototype photo I've had for years. The car
number is 211334 and the reweigh date is CY 3-46. The repack date is
3-18-46

I wondered, when I saw the date, if that was the photo you were working from. That car would have been among the earliest rebuilt Bx-12s to have been repainted after the war, and one of the earliest to be renumbered. I'm planning to model the same car to run on my fall 1947 diorama.

Richard Hendrickson

On Sep 4, 2006, at 7:22 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Did Sunshine do resin kits of the later rebuilds? I need to keep those
modifications in mind while determining the fleet I need for 1957.

Not yet. but if Charlie Slater can be persuaded to make patterns for them, that might happen.

Richard Hendrickson

Thanks Richard, I'll have to add the side sill reinforcement too. I
originally reread just the section on the rebuilt cars and not chapter 9 of
the book, which deals with the second rebuilding.

Did Sunshine do resin kits of the later rebuilds? I need to keep those
modifications in mind while determining the fleet I need for 1957.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

On Mon, September 4, 2006 8:21 pm, Justin Walker wrote:

Hi to all

I have been neglecting a completed Westerfield kit for too long on the
workbench.

Any recommendations on trucks for this great kit?

Cheers
Justin Walker

Justin,

As with any PRR car, first check Rob Schoenberg's web pages. His G25 page
is at:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G25

This says that the G25 used class 2E-F3 trucks, which, when you click on
the link for that truck, just happen to be Andrews (which makes sense,
given that the G25 was a USRA car and the USRA truck was the Andrews
<VBG>). Hope that helps!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Hi to all

I have been neglecting a completed Westerfield kit for too long on the workbench.

Any recommendations on trucks for this great kit?

Cheers
Justin Walker
Gold Coast, Australia

Note also that it wasn't until some time in

1946 that Santa Fe began renumbering Bx-12s from their original

numbers > to the 211050-214549 series, so it's likely that a car
reweighed in > 3-46 would still have had its original 126000-129499
series number.

Richard Hendrickson

Richard (and others) - thanks for the painting corrections. I'm
modeling the car off a prototype photo I've had for years. The car
number is 211334 and the reweigh date is CY 3-46. The repack date is
3-18-46
Charlie

On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Based on the photographs in Santa fe Railway rolling stock reference series
volume 2, Refrigerators cars, It appears the USRA rebuild up to RR-34 kept
top operated couplers and RR-35 onward (postwar or nearly so) had bottom
operated couplers. I can't find this difference noted in the text so I am
looking for confirmation. Were any of the early top operated couplers
replaced with bottom operated couplers later on in life? I am working on
detailing an RR-28 and RR-23 for 1957. Thanks.

Brian, you are right that the postwar SFRD rebuilds had bottom-operated couplers with rotary uncoupling levers, whereas the prewar cars kept their original top operated couplers and uncoupling mechanisms. Beginning in 1953, however, the Santa Fe began a program of general repairs to upgrade the prewar cars, beginning with the Rr-19 class of 1936. Included in this program was the replacement of the ends of the underframes, elimination of the original USRA end sills and stub side sills, and application of new draft gear with bottom-operated Type E couplers and rotary uncoupling levers (though of a different type than those fitted to the Rr-36 and later classes when originally rebuilt). In addition, hatch covers were reversed, wood running boards replaced with steel, many cars got sliding plug doors, and all of the modernized cars were renumbered. Carrying out these modifications on Intermountain reefer kits would be lot of work, so I'm assuming you are modeling cars to which these "betterments" had not yet been applied.

By 1957, about a third of the Rr-23 class and about half of the Rr-28s still had original numbers (and thus had not yet been rebuilt). Even those cars would have had side sill reinforcements added below the doors, as are illustrated in several photos in the reefer book.

I hope this is helpful.

Richard Hendrickson

On Sep 4, 2006, at 4:03 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:

Am getting close to finishing the Westerfield Bx-12 kit with the
extended roof. Am modeling a boxcar with a lightweight date of 3-46.
Would like to verify what I 'think'is the right color scheme for this
time period.

Roof - cement black
Wood roofwalk - Mineral Brown
Sides/doors/ends - mineral brown (sides & ends painted mineral brown
to the roofline.
Tackboards - mineral brown
Underframe & trucks - black

Close but no cigar, Charlie. Underframe and trucks would have been mineral brown. Also, In 1946 the placard boards and route card boards would have been black. Note also that it wasn't until some time in 1946 that Santa Fe began renumbering Bx-12s from their original numbers to the 211050-214549 series, so it's likely that a car reweighed in 3-46 would still have had its original 126000-129499 series number.

Richard Hendrickson

The underframe and trucks would also be mineral brown.
Charles Slater
Bakersfield, Ca.

Charlie,

From a quick glance at the Painting and Lettering Guide, it appears
that your comments on paint colors are quite valid. For the 1946 date,
the printed history, in general, confirms your understanding.

That said, I am presently looking at Bx-12 photos in ATSF COLOR GUIDE
TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT, Lloyd E. Stagner, Morning Sun
Books, 1995, and there appears to be some variation on the color
scheme. There are three Bx-12s pictured; the 211673 photographed in
December, 1962; the 212861 photographed in October, 1967; and the
213481 photographed in October 1960. And this is what I can see...

Re: 211673:
Mineral Brown roof color with what appears to be a wood roof walk (a
bit hard to tell from the edge view, but my "guess"). Trucks... very
dirty, but appear to be mineral brown. Ditto for the underframe (at
least the air tank is MB).

Re: 212861:
Mineral Brown roof color with a galvanized steel roof walk. One can
make out the overspray on this element. Trucks... in the shadows and
the underframe is not visible.

Re: 213481:
Unknown roof color with a steel roof walk. Trucks... very dirty. My
guess is MB. The underframe is in the shadows.

The year that you are modeling will play a major role in determining
just what the roof finish color is. If memory of the paint/lettering
guide is correct, the black cement roof color was changed as supplies
ran out to mineral brown in the early 1950s.

A long response to say that I believe you are correct in your thinking.

I also like the Lego idea and will give it a try once this grandpa buys
a set for his granddaughter.

Cheers,
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 4, 2006, at 4:03 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:

Am getting close to finishing the Westerfield Bx-12 kit with the
extended roof. Am modeling a boxcar with a lightweight date of 3-46.
Would like to verify what I 'think'is the right color scheme for this
time period.

Roof - cement black
Wood roofwalk - Mineral Brown
Sides/doors/ends - mineral brown (sides & ends painted mineral brown
to the roofline.
Tackboards - mineral brown
Underframe & trucks - black

Thanks for the help.

btw I 'borrowed' some Legos from a box in the basement to help true up
the ends and sides. By gluing Legos to the end of the sides I ensured
I had a 90 degree angle. I also glued (acc'd) a long Lego against the
top of the interior sides for the roof to side on. Kit went together
quite easily with this interior bracing.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Am getting close to finishing the Westerfield Bx-12 kit with the
extended roof. Am modeling a boxcar with a lightweight date of 3-46.
Would like to verify what I 'think'is the right color scheme for this
time period.

Roof - cement black
Wood roofwalk - Mineral Brown
Sides/doors/ends - mineral brown (sides & ends painted mineral brown
to the roofline.
Tackboards - mineral brown
Underframe & trucks - black

Thanks for the help.

btw I 'borrowed' some Legos from a box in the basement to help true up
the ends and sides. By gluing Legos to the end of the sides I ensured
I had a 90 degree angle. I also glued (acc'd) a long Lego against the
top of the interior sides for the roof to side on. Kit went together
quite easily with this interior bracing.

Ed Mines wrote:

Has anyone seen the O&W hopper book?
Does it cover cars from other railroads? Are there a lot of photos?

We rejected the book in the form it then existed, so I know a lot about it. It has a superb history of the evolution of hopper cars, which appears to be the product of extensive research. The coverage of O&W seems quite complete also (and if you're not an O&W fanatic, perhaps more than you really want to know or even be aware of), though not with a huge number of photos. I proposed to the author that the book emphasize the hopper history, and treat the O&W as an illustration thereof; the manuscript submitted to us was approximately the reverse emphasis. I will be interested to see what the final product is. We did not feel it was an inferior work at all, only that it was not organized in the best way to sell to a larger market, and the author declined to entertain any such changes. Whatever its final form, for O&W people, I assume it will be a godsend.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Has anyone seen the O&W hopper book?

Does it cover cars from other railroads? Are there a lot of photos?

Ed

On Sep 3, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

In the May 93 RMC Richard Hendrickson had an article on making a Cudahy reefer from the MDC 36 foot wood reefer. He mentioned that Cudahy (CRLX) had two series of these cars, 5701-5850 and 5901-6100 that were similar but not identical. The 1961 ORER also lists a third series, 6101-6400 that has the same dimensions - in all respects - as these other two. Does anyone know if this third series could also be modeled in the manner of the article?

Kurt, the 1950 ORER shows the number series 6101-6300 with dimensions identical to the other number series. I have two photos of cars in this series which appear to be identical to the earlier Cudahy cars and bear built dates of 1-49 and 3-49 (yes, Cudahy was still having 36' wood reefers built to the pre-World War II design as late as 1949 and possibly even later than that). The additional 100 cars, bringing the number series up to 6101-6400, are shown in the 1953 ORER. I have no documentary or photographic evidence about those extra cars; they may be an additional group of cars built new after 1950 or they may be older cars with the same dimensions that were renumbered after receiving general repairs.

The only significant differences among the three series of cars were trucks. Cars in the 5701-5850 series had National B-1 trucks. Cars in the 5901-6100 series had Barber Stabilized S-2 trucks. Some cars in the 6101-6300 series had ASF A-3 "Ride Control" trucks, while others had Barber S-2s.

Richard Hendrickson

Based on the photographs in Santa fe Railway rolling stock reference series
volume 2, Refrigerators cars, It appears the USRA rebuild up to RR-34 kept
top operated couplers and RR-35 onward (postwar or nearly so) had bottom
operated couplers. I can't find this difference noted in the text so I am
looking for confirmation. Were any of the early top operated couplers
replaced with bottom operated couplers later on in life? I am working on
detailing an RR-28 and RR-23 for 1957. Thanks.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

I tried sending this note out last night but not all of the lists got
notified, thanks to Yahoo's screening.

Effective immediately, my email address is changed to
jimking3@.... The old address (jimking3@...) will
remain active until later this month when that account expires. Please
make a note in your address book.

Jim King
Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.
http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

Kurt,
Nice work. When I can see straight(tomorrow), I'll look at the data and see how they line up.
Thanks,
Joe Binish

I have a further question for Dr. H. You mention in the article(I am in the material acquisition phase of modelling one of these cars) that the MDC model is "close to the correct dimensions". Could you please post a comparison between the prototype and said kit for those of us who are ORER challenged?

TIA,
Joe Binish

Joe, FWIW, I compiled a table a while back of the 1961 ORER dimensions for various wood reefers pictured in my references compared to the MDC 36 foot meat reefer, the Mehano/AHM(?) reefer (with steel ends), and Industrial/Varney(?) RTR kit. Hopefully the column comes across OK:

CAR
NUMBER
ORER
TYPE
INSIDE H
LENGTH
EAVE W
DOOR W
DOOR H
REF


MDC


RS

37' 2"
9' 9"
4' 1"
6' 4"



GARX
1581
572
RSM
6' 5"
37' 3"
9' 11"
3' 10"
6' 2"
CF10

SRLX
2601
572
RSM
6' 8"
37' 3"
9' 10"
4' 0"
6' 5"
CF65

CRLX
5802
560
RSM
7' 2"
37' 5"
9' 10"
4' 0"
6' 0"
MR55

CRLX
5819
560
RSM
7' 2"
37' 5"
9' 10"
4' 0"
6' 0"
CF50

SRLX
3577
572
RAM
6' 6"
37' 5"
9' 11"
4' 0"
5' 9"
CF1

SRLX
4555
572
RAM
6' 6"
37' 5"
9' 11"
4' 0"
5' 9"
CF65

SRLX
5423
572
RAM
6' 6"
37' 5"
9' 11"
4' 0"
5' 9"
CF1

SRLX
5446
572
RAM
6' 6"
37' 5"
9' 11"
4' 0"
5' 9"
MR53

SRLX
5767
572
RAM
6' 6"
37' 5"
9' 11"
4' 0"
5' 9"
MR53

SRLX
5839
572
RAM
6' 6"
37' 5"
9' 11"
4' 0"
5' 9"
CF9

SRLX
6714
572
RAM
6' 2"
37' 5"
9' 6"
4' 0"
5' 9"
MR54

URTX
77026
608
RB
7' 2"
37' 5"
9' 11"
4' 0"
5' 9"
MR55

ARLX
11414
561
RAM
6' 1"
37' 10"
10' 1"
4' 0"
6' 0"
MR54

ARLX
11945
561
RAM
6' 1"
37' 10"
10' 1"
4' 0"
6' 0"
MR54

IND


RS

38' 1"
10' 0"
3' 10"
6' 4"


URTX
63347
608
RSM
6' 8"
38' 4"
9' 11"
4' 0"
6' 5"
MR55

SRLX
15307
572
RAM
6' 10"
39' 0"
9' 4"
4' 0"
6' 5"
CF11

NWX
4570
594
RS
7' 1"
40' 0"

4' 0"
6' 0"
CF62

NWX
15265
594
RS
7' 1"
40' 0"

4' 0"
6' 0"
CF61

NWX
70193
594
RS
7' 1"
40' 0"

4' 0"
6' 0"
CF62

WRX
9134
613
RS
7' 6"
40' 0"
9' 10"
4' 0"
6' 0"
CF38

WRX
9670
613
RS
7' 6"
40' 0"
9' 10"
4' 0"
6' 0"
CF37

WRX
9787
613
RS
7' 6"
40' 0"
9' 10"
4' 0"
6' 0"
CF37

URTX
5093
608
RS
7' 4"
40' 10"
9' 11"
4' 0"
6' 5"
CF24

WFEX
49543
605
RS
6' 11"
40' 10"
10' 2"
4' 0"
6' 0"
CF41

URTX
10728
608
RS
7' 5"
40' 11"
9' 11"
4' 0"
6' 6"
CF24

SRLX
1020
572
RB
7' 6"
40' 7"
10' 3"
4' 11"
7' 1"
CF10

FGEX
50098
563
RS
7' 3"
41' 8"
9' 11 "
4' 0"
6' 0"
CF52

FGEX
59608
563
RS
7' 5"
41' 8"
10' 1"
4' 0"
6' 1"
CF52

WFEX
72054
605
RS
7' 5"
41' 8"
10' 1"
4' 0"
6' 1"
CF41

AHM


RS

41' 8"
10' 0"
4' 1"
6' 4"


CP
289107
220
RSM
6' 8"
42' 2"
9' 4"
4' 0"
6' 4"
CF59

GTW
206950
210
RSM
6' 7"
42' 6"
10' 2"
5' 0"
6' 4"
CF64

BAR
6582
194
RS
7' 3"
42' 7"
9' 9"
4' 0"
6' 5"
CF22

CP
285489
220
RSM
6' 8"
42' 7"
9' 11"
5' 0"
6' 4"
CF59



My dimensions were taken with a ruler rather than using my calipers, so they are probably only within 1/32 which is ~ 2.5 inches full size. Given that it's hard to be certain what exactly the ORER dimension refers to, hard to determine exactly what you measure on the car, plus the fact that injection molding requires some compromises in shapes and sizes, this is probably about as good as you could expect to get, and close enough to make a comparison.

HTH,
KL

Here's a new list that has nothing to do with freight cars directly, but certainly relates to our period of interest and therefore might be of interest to the group.

To quote:

"50's and older vehicle list

Many people model vehicles such as trucks, busses, construction
equipment, cars etc in 1/87 or HO scale. While many lists seem to
cater more towards the equipment of today, this list will address
those modelling the vehicles typical of the 1950's era. It should be
noted that vehicles operating in the fifties included many dating
back to the 20's so there is much area for discussion."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/50sERA87thScaleVehicles

Pete Bowers is the list owner, and also runs CN Lines, so I believe you can consider this a reputable group to join.

Best regards,

Richard F. Dermody

Ed Hawkins wrote:
"Also possibly the D&M (5000-5024), which I've never come across a
good photo to confirm for sure."

Ed, there's a photo of D&M 5003 on page 25 of Henderson's Classic
Freight Cars Vol 4.


Ben Hom